Breeding Remarks

[El Español]

Hey Now!
Curious if any other cultures of cockers around the world were taught this about mating. In Spain we are taught to mate the old broodcock with the young pullets and the old hens to the bullstags. I believe there is some rational in this, but for the life of me I cannot explain why. I know that my friends that mate their fowl this way generally show superior fowl while others that don't follow this practice don't always fare so well.

So, is there a scientific term for this practice, or is it that the guys that I knew who did this (including myself) may have just started out with superior fowl or we have a better eye for mating?

Anyone?

Thanks! Happy Holidays!

[jundizon]

this is a good thread. me too i simply doing this though no scientific proof. hehehe let's here from our fellow cockers..

[wildfoot]

El Espanol,

I usually do it by practice rather than by method. See, every year I choose the best stag to mate with the broodhen until she is then replaced by a pullet two years later bred to the stag who is now a cock and the cycle continues. Each time selecting the best of the clutch......there are times though that you wait up to 5 years to come up with the right one. This is why I am puzzled by the people that sell hundreds of broodfowl every year? when it takes me years to find the one!

As a general rule i replace the brood fowls every three years but I've had some in the pen up to 9 years as long as they are mated to pullets or stag. Again as sometimes you dont find one good enough to replace him or her.

Here is another one I've learned throughout the years. If you breed a Stag to a pullet you will generally get larger birds than the parent stock. So when I feel that my birds have less daylight between their legs I have a young pair in the side to infuse next year without having to bring in new blood. This practice takes a lot of pens but it works for me.

This is out of topic but for the life of me - I cant understand how so many people buy birds and sell the offsprings as Brood materials because they are from so and so.....How do they produce 100% brood materials?????? Am I missing something here ????


Wildfoot

[ronking]

joey...

yeah its the money dat talk....cos theres alot of people are so in the bloodlines nowdays...cos dats wat sells...

[don b]

Jon,

Maybe it freshens up the genetic pool. The old cocks and hens would be smarter due to experience and age. Smartnesss maybe their contribution when they have calmed down, while the younger stags and pullets have all the freshness, size, strenght, speed and energy of youth in them.

Just what wildfoot did when he bred a stag and a pullet, they were much larger than their parents. Age and youth complimented each other on most cases. I did breed an asil stag and pullet and they were slickier, faster than what I produce with an old broodcock to pullets, but maybe not that smart.

Mitra's style was to use pullets as materials for his foundation lines. Even if you do use new generations of breeders, you always would like to have back the old foundation lines to beef them up again. Younger generation of humans are getting bigger and stronger, but not as smart as the oldies which are the goodies...........................just maybe

[kogmohon]

jon...it is nature at it's best...we are all made up of energy and energy needs energy...
we get energy from food, the sun, from trees and best of all from the young...i drive my
old bentley and the feeling is good because it's paid for...a ride with my wife is good but
squeaky but a ride with a young one...W O W...i don't do push ups but with a young blood
under me i'll do a hundred in a minute before i'll roll out for my cigs and feel like a duck in the pond...

[Leirbag]

Until what age is the broodfowls be effective? if we are using the old fowls?

[tagakin]

kog,
never fails!

[Camarines]

That is the way Carlos A. Finsterbusch have it in his book "Cockfighting All over the World". The stamina from the hen and the speed from the rooster.

[kogmohon]

camarines...i never ceased to flip the dragon everytime i read your thread.i'm like putting
a quarter in the peggy bank...

[A1GFarms]

dang kogs - u r smooth , got the moves and the groves .....u r cool too.......more power to u ...i like what u said...........thats tight.....brought the house down.

[expressdelivery]

the genes of old breeding materials also tire out
the quality of produce is affected
in size,health and temper

[raptortiger]

Breeding experience is the best teacher...

We watch our fowl and study their characteristics and we Learn.....we linebreed them and maintain.

If new breed destroys our created strain we try to adjust and figure how to outsmart the newbreed and that experimentation took years to get it into perfection...the only shortcut is to acquire more knowledge and skills and in just a year you can meet your expectations.

[bunguton]

mga pre anybody could teach me how to post new threand?

[RalSuBirds]

Do you mean to say guys that my genes now is different when I was 18 ......... If my genes that carries my shorty height then will change now ... my genes that carry my DUMBNESS then will become DUMBER as I get OLDER ??? My genes of being slow mover will change as I grow older and da da da da da da da da???

I respectfully disagree if that's what you think ............. genes are most likely constant on what they are.

[expressdelivery]

your genes reveal it
in your writing-----lol

temper is decreased in offsprings
as the breeding materials used
gets too old

[RalSuBirds]

your genes reveal it
in your writing-----lol

temper is decreased in offsprings
as the breeding materials used
gets too oldYour writing about this ,,, reveals your too limitted scientific knowledge and understanding . You said "the genes of old breeding materials also tire out". Ha ha ha ... do you even know what "gene" means ?

[expressdelivery]

why would i spent my time with you
debating and debating and debating
------------------------------------lol

[RalSuBirds]

That proves your idiocy ,,,, just shut up for you you know nothing further ...........

[RalSuBirds]

EX....
That proves your idiocy ,,,, just shut up for you you know nothing further ........... And you started it anyway ,,, and you complain like a CHILD ... at your age ??? waaaahhhh!!!! Ha ha ha ha ha !

[mansmith]

Same principle at work, I guess, with fruit-bearing dwarfed trees: It bears fruit early, but retires, just as early.

Same with old pairs that produce excellent stags, that deteriorate as it age. And of the young pairs that produce average stags that excell as cocks when aged.

The rationale behind the pairing of the old and the young, I think, had to do with balancing the mixture of the older and younger cells. The old produces cells that act old; while the young produces cells that are vigorous.

[mansmith]

Do you mean to say guys that my genes now is different when I was 18 ......... If my genes that carries my shorty height then will change now ... my genes that carry my DUMBNESS then will become DUMBER as I get OLDER ??? My genes of being slow mover will change as I grow older and da da da da da da da da???

I respectfully disagree if that's what you think ............. genes are most likely constant on what they are.

Ralsu,

It's the cell that your body reproduces at will, when you were 18, is what must have slowed down..

[RalSuBirds]

Ralsu,

It's the cell that your body reproduces at will, when you were 18, is what must have slowed down..MANSMITH ,,, I'm talking about NOT the CELLS that consist my tissues but the GENES that carries the traits and characteristics in the chromosome .

[pogipoint]

When I was in highschool I read Cockfighting in the Philippines by Angel Lansang which I think is still available in National Bookstore at the filipiniana section...It say there a certain combination which will produce a fighting machine. If I recall it right...the best breeding age is over a year old for the hen and rooster..

fyi

[newtogame2]

El Espanol,

My experience in cocking is no where near yours, but I read that one of the reasons to pair older birds to young ones is to calm them down. The older birds know the mating process, so they can handle the young ones more gently. I notice that many young pullets are more cooperative w/ older cocks.

And that's not just w/ chickens ;)

[mansmith]

Ralsu,

I just thought that Celia, and not Gene, was to blame. Sorry.

[kogmohon]

i hear you newt2...it's been my problem when i am in p.i....and...mansmith...celia's first
name is don...

[mode0]

In the wild, only the stronger had the right to breed, that's why during breeding season the young ones try to challenge the old leader of the pack, and we're just trying to mimick that pattern of breeding, and applying some scientific evaluation.

my sing-ko opinion.

[newtogame2]

Hey kog, I have the same problem when I am back in Vietnam. My wife wouldn't let me go anywhere there by myself... Here, I am just another face in the crowd, but sometimes it's better this way. :)

[kogmohon]

newt2...come to p.i. and be my guest i am preparing a entry for the june 2007 wsc... but
don't bring a sandwhich...you are going to a buffet...

[RalSuBirds]

Ralsu,

I just thought that Celia, and not Gene, was to blame. Sorry.Whoa ha ha ha !!!:p ;) :D

[newtogame2]

kog, I may take you up on it if I am going back to VN this summer. My company closes the first 2 weeks every July for retooling/maintainance, so the employees must use their vacation days during that time. Usually I tack on another 2 weeks starting in mid-June, so I can have a month-long vacation. It's too long of a flight just to take 2 weeks off.

From Vietnam to the PI is just a hop, a skip and a jump. When do WSCs start in June?

[kogmohon]

newt2...wsc in june usually start after the second week and i will let you know as soon as
they will announce it...keep in touch...

[bquimbo]

newt2...come to p.i. and be my guest i am preparing a entry for the june 2007 wsc... but
don't bring a sandwhich...you are going to a buffet...


Sir Kogs,

i was really amazed to see all the food vendor inside Araneta, kahit 1am marami kang makakain....... with lots of san mig.. only question i had for management is, why they dont allow people to go out of the coliseum for a few minutes even if u wanted to withdraw money from ATM or worse, a fellow wanted to get some medication from his car but the guard simply said "as long as you pay again! for entrance..."

ciao,

bq

[kogmohon]

bq...the araneta's will never point a gun in your face but once you are inside the trap you
cannot go out until you lost all your money or the food concessions are sold out...

[romulo manuel]

mansmith wrote: "Same principle at work, I guess, with fruit-bearing dwarfed trees: It bears fruit early, but retires, just as early.

Same with old pairs that produce excellent stags, that deteriorate as it age. And of the young pairs that produce average stags that excell as cocks when aged.

The rationale behind the pairing of the old and the young, I think, had to do with balancing the mixture of the older and younger cells. The old produces cells that act old; while the young produces cells that are vigorous."

mansmith, maybe you are referring to virility, not genetic makeup.

[mansmith]

But the topic isn't about genetic make up, but the rationale behind the pairing of the old and the young, right?

[LOBAQ]

Good question...It has something to do with the idea of reciprocity in FERTILITY...meaning to help improve the hatchability percentage of the pair. Older birds/chicken are said to have lower sperm (Cock) count and in (hen, lesser number of active follicle.)

My 1 cents input..senior jon!

[LOBAQ]

Then, by mating an older cock to younger Female (above sexual maturity) and/or by mating stags to an older female/Hen...the weakness of the other shall be reciprocated by the other mate hence, increased hatchability percentage is attained/maintained.

Hope this help!

HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL.

L O B A Q

[k2bas]

gene - simply genetic material, the make up of a person gene will not change when it get older. The cells in the body usually slow down with age. Meaning the older a person become the reproductive system will not be at it best. in order to compensate this we give a mate that is at it's peak.

[Rolei]

Modeo:
Thats why roosters fight...

[MaxFly]

Genetic Code, DNA, is copied by enzyme and the copy is then stored in the outer part of the cell, in a process called transcription.