PDA

View Full Version : Knife Alignment



Pages : [1] 2

gchrissuarez
May 28th, 2008, 07:03 AM
3 checks for Proper Knife Alignment

First check, look at the blade from the bottom view(talampakan) it should coincide that the blade is parallel to the shank(12 o' clock) and the tip will point at the prop toe tendon. The blade and the prop toe should be forming a small letter V. The blade is positioned in between the spur and the prop toe. And not directly below the spur as there will be high probability that your rooster will hit himself.

Now the 2nd check is to make sure that the knife tip does not go over the midline of the body of the rooster, thus preventing probability of self-inflicted injury. Look at the knife from the back of the rooster, letting the feet loose, so when you straighten both feet up, the tip of the knife should be in between the them and is in turn pointed at the a-s-s. Do not go over the a-s-s. There is a high probability that your rooster will hit himself.

If you have the 1st check right and the 2nd check still goes over the a-s-s, you probably are using a longer knife than one that fits your rooster.

The 3rd check will determine if you have the knife point set at low, medium or high point. Look at the knife and shank sideways, if the tip of the knife is lower than the center of the spur, it is low point. If higher than the center of the spur, it is high point. If exactly center of the spur, mid point.

Also regarding the 3rd check, if one sets the knife at high point, you are giving away a little reach advantage.

Hope this helps you in tying your knives. Goog Luck on all your fights.

Chris Suarez

gchrissuarez
May 28th, 2008, 07:05 AM
I make sure that the very back of the knife base is coming out from the very side of the prop toe and not apart but when it comes to the neck and the blade itself, it should be forming a small letter V.

A caution with forming a small letter V in your knife setting...

There are times that the prop toe of the rooster is misaligned, like for example the prop toe is leaning more to the inside. If you tie the knife on a rooster like the example and make it a point to have a small V with your knife setting, your knife point will be "PASOK" or "SULOD" thus your rooster will have a disadvantage during the fight because the point will be nowhere near the desired set/target and your rooster might even hit himself when it comes to the drag and they are tired from the fight.

You can check the prop toe by letting him stand and observe or while holding the rooster, curl the front toes, if the prop toe is touching the middle toe or slightly in between the middle and the inner toe, then go ahead and tie it with a small V. But if the prop toe is touching the inner toe, then tie the knife parallel to the prop toe.

This is just another check when tying the knife.

Chris Suarez

magsaubay08
May 28th, 2008, 06:08 PM
i agree 100%....but i usually check the knife if it is low,mid or high point before i tie the cotton tape or "sapin"...another thing also,is i usually check the feet if its palabas or normal,meaning normally aligned or palabas,so that i can adjust the "paunan" o that i can avoid pressing more thus making your bird hurt...

ARESFORTUN
May 28th, 2008, 08:54 PM
Verrrrry Nice thread!....

Sir Chris, i will really appreciate it if you can post alignment pictures. thanks and more power!

Regards,

gchrissuarez
May 28th, 2008, 11:44 PM
Another important check from sir magsaubay08 to properly set the knife on our roosters.


Ares, I will place the pics here soon.


Guys, Please share your other checks for proper knife alignment.

hAYN JJ
May 29th, 2008, 01:27 AM
Great thread!!!..............

Thanks for sharing.........

royandres314
May 30th, 2008, 02:39 AM
good thread G. Chris ur very 100 % right regarding the alignment of tari knife, its worth sharing ur expertised to others, regards.

conquistador NV
May 30th, 2008, 05:34 PM
SIRS, KNIFE TYING IS VERY TRICKY. WHEN I AM WATCHING BIGTIME DERBIES HERE IN METRO MANILA, IT IS MY PRACTICE TO VISIT THE GAFFING ROOM AND OBSERVE KNIFE ALIGNMENT FROM KNOWN BIGTIME GAFFERS LIKE NOLI ESTRELLADO, ALBERT MARGEN AND MANY OTHERS AND OBSERVE HW THE ROOSTERS HIT THEIR OPPONENTS...

IT WILL BE HARD EXPLAINING HERE BUT IT WILL BE BETTER TO MAKE THIS PRACTICE OF OBSERVING KNIFE ALIGNMENT.. IVE BEEN TYING KNIFE TO MY OWN ROOSTERS BE IT IN DERBIES, HACKFIGHT AND TUPADAS,, HEHEHE.. I AM SATISFIED THE WAY I AM DOING IT.. JUST ONE BIG CLEAN PUNCH MY COCK NEEDS AND THE FIGHT IS OVER,,

IN ADDITION, DO NOT TIE KNIFE INTENDED FOR COCKS TO A STAG OR BULLSTAG.. MAKE IT PROPORTION.. AND BE FAMILIAR WITH THEIR FIGHTING STYLE. IF THEY ATE SALTOS, IT WILL BE BETTER IF THE KNIFE IS TIED NEAR THE PROP TOE OR MEJO LABAS, BUT OBSERVE WELL BECAUSE THERE ARE SOME PROP TOES THAT ARE NOT NATURALLY ALIGNED,... IF YOUR COCK IS A SHUFFLER, IT WILL BETTER IF THE KNIFE WILL BE TIED "pasok"...

most important is, do not go away from the alignment of the spur, it is because the spur of the cock is his natural weapon and at all times when fighting, he will used it to hurt his opponent..

gchrissuarez
May 30th, 2008, 06:48 PM
Nice input, Sir Conquistador.

Another check: (especially for those with using Fork knives without toe rings):
Be careful not to set the knife to low because the blade might be touching the ground and the rooster will have a hard time walking and maintaining balance during the fight.

Usually we can notice that during the heating stage and re-tie the knife but there was a fight I witnessed that the rooster was ok during heating but when it was released for the fight, it was walking awkwardly and upon careful observation, it was caused by the knife being tied too low and touching the ground.

rkysat
May 30th, 2008, 07:03 PM
Very nice infos from our dear experts !!! Keep on coming guys ....

cheers

jack_kie
May 30th, 2008, 07:08 PM
Nice input, Sir Conquistador.

Another check: (especially for those with using Fork knives without toe rings):
Be careful not to set the knife to low because the blade might be touching the ground and the rooster will have a hard time walking and maintaining balance during the fight.

Usually we can notice that during the heating stage and re-tie the knife but there was a fight I witnessed that the rooster was ok during heating but when it was released for the fight, it was walking awkwardly and upon careful observation, it was caused by the knife being tied too low and touching the ground.

You are right sir! toe rings are also used as reference on the knife setting. without toe ring, when a newbie gaffer is careless knife could be set too high from the proptoe that reach advantage is compromised. And as you mentioned it coul be set too low also :D

gchrissuarez
May 31st, 2008, 07:05 AM
Good morning to all!

If I were to choose, I would choose to have the knife set a little higher because although we are giving away a little reach advantage, the rooster will still have complete balance and thus will still be able to connect whereas when the knife is touching the ground the roosters will be having a hard time to balance himself because the garol is hurting his shank whenever he set his knife leg down on the ground and in effect, he will instead be using the other leg(the one without the knife) to hit his opponent.

Notice what a rooster's feet does before he tries to give a blow, he firmly grips the ground before jumping.

gchrissuarez
June 2nd, 2008, 09:00 AM
good thread G. Chris ur very 100 % right regarding the alignment of tari knife, its worth sharing ur expertised to others, regards.

Hello Roy,

Just sharing what I set on my chickens. Everybody has his own ideas and have settings differently but I am glad that you agree with this setting. I am doing very well with this one.

Regards
Chris

MARLON A. PO
June 2nd, 2008, 04:15 PM
Sir Chris,

This is a very nice thread, please continue posting educational topics this will insure to help a lot to those who are still in the process of practicing Knife alignment. Thanks to all contributors, please post and post more. . .

marlon

Taga_Cebu
June 2nd, 2008, 05:32 PM
good infos for novice gaffers like me. :) keep it coming guys. thanks.

magsaubay08
June 3rd, 2008, 05:05 AM
the type of material also used in making knife..in my humble little experience,power hack saws,e.g. eclipse,bahco(sandvic before),starret,etc.. the advantage is matagal mapurol,but the tool bits like ASAB 45 and 17,momax,cobalt,super cobalt madaling mapurol,isang gamitan lang,peru may sinusubo ang kaibigan ko na magpapahapdi ng sugat..dami na tumakbong manok sa derby,o di kaya ma off yung kalaban pag nasugatan..kaya bago bumili tari,alamin ang material na ginamit..ingat lang din sa sinubuhan,kasi yung sa akin,pagnasugatan ako kahit 2mm na hiwa lang,manhid yung buong braso ko,di ko na matatapospagtatari..

redrooster25
June 3rd, 2008, 06:39 AM
the type of material also used in making knife..in my humble little experience,power hack saws,e.g. eclipse,bahco(sandvic before),starret,etc.. the advantage is matagal mapurol,but the tool bits like ASAB 45 and 17,momax,cobalt,super cobalt madaling mapurol,isang gamitan lang,peru may sinusubo ang kaibigan ko na magpapahapdi ng sugat..dami na tumakbong manok sa derby,o di kaya ma off yung kalaban pag nasugatan..kaya bago bumili tari,alamin ang material na ginamit..ingat lang din sa sinubuhan,kasi yung sa akin,pagnasugatan ako kahit 2mm na hiwa lang,manhid yung buong braso ko,di ko na matatapospagtatari..

Ang hapdi ng sugat depende sa klase ng hasa ng tari. Pag maganda ang hasa syempre super talas yan at abot agad sa laman. PAg ang isang rasor or blade na bago pag nasusugatan tayo mahapdi diba?

gchrissuarez
June 3rd, 2008, 08:44 AM
Sir Chris,

This is a very nice thread, please continue posting educational topics this will insure to help a lot to those who are still in the process of practicing Knife alignment. Thanks to all contributors, please post and post more. . .

marlon


Marlon,

Thank you, just keep on visiting the thread. I'll try to add some more in the days to follow.

Chris

gchrissuarez
June 3rd, 2008, 09:19 AM
the type of material also used in making knife..in my humble little experience,power hack saws,e.g. eclipse,bahco(sandvic before),starret,etc.. the advantage is matagal mapurol,but the tool bits like ASAB 45 and 17,momax,cobalt,super cobalt madaling mapurol,isang gamitan lang,peru may sinusubo ang kaibigan ko na magpapahapdi ng sugat..dami na tumakbong manok sa derby,o di kaya ma off yung kalaban pag nasugatan..kaya bago bumili tari,alamin ang material na ginamit..ingat lang din sa sinubuhan,kasi yung sa akin,pagnasugatan ako kahit 2mm na hiwa lang,manhid yung buong braso ko,di ko na matatapospagtatari..


Hello magsubay08,

This is actually out of topic but I would like to rebut your statements regarding your observation of the material being used.

Although the new power hacksaw blade now are excellent for knife making, materials with Cobalt content of 5-8% like the Super Cobalt H-5 HSS will have the edge last longer than the power hacksaw blades.

There are actually several factors that I can say why you arrive at your conclusion but I will give out the most likely 2 reasons:

1. The knife with the cut-off tool you were able to acquire was just being forge by heat(pokpok), so the heat treatment that the manufacturer of the cut-off tool has set is already lost and you would just ended up with a knife with a hit and miss in heat treatment by dipping the heated blade with your friends poison to cool off.

2. The "basyador" that sharpened your knife is not a really good one if something happened in 3 or more knives in a set already.

And one last thing, bragging on here of having poison in your knife doesn't guarantee that you will always win, there is always karma. Getting cut and already losing feeling in your arm is already proof of that. Next time, it might be more fatal, so better be careful or better yet, use one without poison. It is a "Gentleman's Game" after all.

I had several customers wanted me to make them knives with poison and there was this particular one that really insisted and even offering to double the price, I declined all of them. I don't want my conscience bothering me if ever there would be an accident when using them.

As I said this is already out of topic, this is just my take on our friend's comment.

Take care and just play it "Fair"!

Regards,
Chris

ARESFORTUN
June 3rd, 2008, 09:52 AM
Good morning to all!

If I were to choose, I would choose to have the knife set a little higher because although we are giving away a little reach advantage, the rooster will still have complete balance and thus will still be able to connect whereas when the knife is touching the ground the roosters will be having a hard time to balance himself because the garol is hurting his shank whenever he set his knife leg down on the ground and in effect, he will instead be using the other leg(the one without the knife) to hit his opponent.

Notice what a rooster's feet does before he tries to give a blow, he firmly grips the ground before jumping.



Nice observation sir! I just reviewed my taken sparring and fight clips and i noticed there is TRUTH to it.

Thanks!

FirstBlood
June 3rd, 2008, 12:02 PM
Higher point doesnt always mean good balance for a shuffler. In fact shufflers strike their feet from the outside going in just like clapping your hands, watch the slowmo of the sultada fights. Thus the knife is tied a bit on the inside, when out of balance it doesn't necessarily mean that the cock stands on his knife without his feet touching the ground because the the knife is inclined sideways. When I fight shuffler type fowls I use low point, 1-scale shorter and a dagger-like knife (not too curve) to hasten the speed of sticking and pulling the knife. Knives that are too curve, in bisaya "sangkong" delayes the thrust and pull effort of the fowl. Just my thoughts...

hAYN JJ
June 3rd, 2008, 12:23 PM
Up Up Up.......

MARLON A. PO
June 3rd, 2008, 02:04 PM
:o When I observe during big time derbies there were a lot of gaffers who adopted different style specially in the process of tying the cloth or (hapin). This is a very important steps before setting your knife, thus this contibute fisrtly the major steps prior to SIR CHRIS 3 steps in checking the knife settings. I am 100% agree to what Sir chris is talking about the reminding steps in knife settings.

Another thing is the size of the Blade or the length of the gaff that we should use to our cocks, could anyone in the thread members here could tell us what should be the desire length that is right to be tied to a cock with their corresponding weight? I appreciate much to all cockmates who can contribute or has a wide experience on this event so that others may also gain an experience.

thanks. . . . .

magsaubay08
June 3rd, 2008, 03:47 PM
sorry guys for posting that is out of the topic...just giving tips.

I AGREE with you sir Chris, since it is heated(pokpok) then we have to dip it so that the metals hardness will return close to its orginal,but this is not considered CHEATING.
its been fair and square in cebu,the one that is not accepted is the SHOWER TYPE OR YOU WILL WIPE THE KNIFE WITH CYANIDE...In cebu,cheaters has no place,if caught,he will be tied at the exit gate and all the people inside the arena will give a gift(2-3 hits in his face).

I disagree with the "basyador" fault,he is well known for his basyada..

sorry again..

lets do it ir and square..

regards

magsaubay08
June 3rd, 2008, 03:49 PM
Lets Do It Fair And Square!!!

magsaubay08
June 3rd, 2008, 03:50 PM
By The Way,i'm Not Promoting Or Advertising Knife From Cebu, Im Just Sharing My Humble Experience..sorry Again..cheers

gaffer613
June 3rd, 2008, 04:03 PM
Hello magsubay08,

This is actually out of topic but I would like to rebut your statements regarding your observation of the material being used.

Although the new power hacksaw blade now are excellent for knife making, materials with Cobalt content of 5-8% like the Super Cobalt H-5 HSS will have the edge last longer than the power hacksaw blades.

There are actually several factors that I can say why you arrive at your conclusion but I will give out the most likely 2 reasons:

1. The knife with the cut-off tool you were able to acquire was just being forge by heat(pokpok), so the heat treatment that the manufacturer of the cut-off tool has set is already lost and you would just ended up with a knife with a hit and miss in heat treatment by dipping the heated blade with your friends poison to cool off.

2. The "basyador" that sharpened your knife is not a really good one if something happened in 3 or more knives in a set already.

And one last thing, bragging on here of having poison in your knife doesn't guarantee that you will always win, there is always karma. Getting cut and already losing feeling in your arm is already proof of that. Next time, it might be more fatal, so better be careful or better yet, use one without poison. It is a "Gentleman's Game" after all.

I had several customers wanted me to make them knives with poison and there was this particular one that really insisted and even offering to double the price, I declined all of them. I don't want my conscience bothering me if ever there would be an accident when using them.

As I said this is already out of topic, this is just my take on our friend's comment.

Take care and just play it "Fair"!

Regards,
Chris

Nice Point regarding poisoned knives....

By the way, did you know someone who claims to be good at this trade and making a good living?

I know a few ..sssshhhhh just as they claimed they did. But I doubt co'z they seemed always loosing at the end of the day hahahaha

"Be fair LOOSERS!!!" PEACE.:cool:

Sir CHris ,

Can you elaborate on how you tie knives on any kind of "PARTIDA's" as usually happened during tupadas... just curious sir..

From TAOB, IBABAW, KANAN, TAPAT or maybe sa TUKA daw hahha

magsaubay08
June 3rd, 2008, 04:12 PM
hahahaha..karma is always there for cheaters..

gchrissuarez
June 3rd, 2008, 06:02 PM
Nice observation sir! I just reviewed my taken sparring and fight clips and i noticed there is TRUTH to it.

Thanks!
[/B]

Sir Ares,
Just trying to share my observations. Good luck on your upcoming derbies!

gchrissuarez
June 3rd, 2008, 06:20 PM
Higher point doesnt always mean good balance for a shuffler. In fact shufflers strike their feet from the outside going in just like clapping your hands, watch the slowmo of the sultada fights. Thus the knife is tied a bit on the inside, when out of balance it doesn't necessarily mean that the cock stands on his knife without his feet touching the ground because the the knife is inclined sideways.

FirstBlood,

I think you misunderstood me.

1. Higher point doesn't necessarily mean that the knife is tied on the outside and vice versa with the low point, doesn't necessarily mean that knife is tied on the inside.

2. I agree with you that when a rooster is outbalanced, it does not always mean that the rooster is standing on his knife without his feet touching the ground, there are other factors. But a rooster which is standing on his knife without is feet touching the ground is ALWAYS outbalanced.


When I fight shuffler type fowls I use low point, 1-scale shorter and a dagger-like knife (not too curve) to hasten the speed of sticking and pulling the knife. Knives that are too curve, in bisaya "sangkong" delayes the thrust and pull effort of the fowl. Just my thoughts...

This is a very good point. You need straighter knives for shufflers for faster recoil of his legs, easy in and out to dish out those multiple strokes.

Regards,
Chris

gchrissuarez
June 3rd, 2008, 06:32 PM
sorry guys for posting that is out of the topic...just giving tips.

I AGREE with you sir Chris, since it is heated(pokpok) then we have to dip it so that the metals hardness will return close to its orginal,but this is not considered CHEATING.
its been fair and square in cebu,the one that is not accepted is the SHOWER TYPE OR YOU WILL WIPE THE KNIFE WITH CYANIDE...In cebu,cheaters has no place,if caught,he will be tied at the exit gate and all the people inside the arena will give a gift(2-3 hits in his face).

I disagree with the "basyador" fault,he is well known for his basyada..

sorry again..

lets do it ir and square..

regards

No problem, sir. Thank you for your contribution.

If it is not the basyador, then it is the other one as you said your knives were forged, that's why from your experience, the Cobalt knives gets dull faster.

Knives that are forged and dip in fluids, oils, etc.. of course is not considered cheating. It is the use of poison that is considered cheating.

Let me ask you, sir. Since you are using knives that have poison, hence the lost feeling in your whole arm when you were nicked by your knife when tying, do you consider yourself Fair and Square? Just something to think about.

Take care.

Chris

gchrissuarez
June 3rd, 2008, 06:40 PM
Sir CHris ,

Can you elaborate on how you tie knives on any kind of "PARTIDA's" as usually happened during tupadas... just curious sir..

From TAOB, IBABAW, KANAN, TAPAT or maybe sa TUKA daw hahha

Gaffer613,

Yep, everybody should play it Fair and Square. Imagine fighting your potential broodcock and it won with only a minor cut then ended up dead the following morning?

You just gave me a great idea on what to include on the next edition of the instructional DVD. Thank you. I will post some points of the "partidas" here soon.

Regards,
Chris

magsaubay08
June 3rd, 2008, 07:22 PM
No problem, sir. Thank you for your contribution.

If it is not the basyador, then it is the other one as you said your knives were forged, that's why from your experience, the Cobalt knives gets dull faster.

Knives that are forged and dip in fluids, oils, etc.. of course is not considered cheating. It is the use of poison that is considered cheating.

Let me ask you, sir. Since you are using knives that have poison, hence the lost feeling in your whole arm when you were nicked by your knife when tying, do you consider yourself Fair and Square? Just something to think about.

Take care.

Chris

sir chris,it could be the forgeing of the metal...i dont think that its poison in the liquid,cause if so,then,maybe i lost my arm by that time...or the birds thats nicked with that knife will die after maybe 3-7 days,but its not...why?because we used it in both of our birds to test our birds gameness,the winners of this test are still usuable...as what my friend told me,he got the ingredients naturally from the sea...thats his secret that i myself dont know.

cheers

Darick29
June 3rd, 2008, 07:31 PM
thx sir conquistador for giving some tips it will be helpful to the newbies like me.. goodluck always sir. =P

Sundowner
June 4th, 2008, 01:46 AM
Lots of things to consider when tying knife. Like feet formation (peke/sakang); suitable lengh; angle/pattern; point (high/med/low} and weight. I use high point on low station short legger, medium point on lots of winds and wider knife on single strocker aged cock. The most important aspect is to put more emphasis on fighting style. If tying for somebody's rooster in hack, ask the owner. My one cent.

nikita
June 4th, 2008, 01:50 AM
Sir gchris, gud am/pm to u i want to ask ur opinion regarding some blade maker made and align at 11.12 and 1Žoclock and what are there damages respectively more power to u and happy cocking. tnx n rgds.

nikita
June 5th, 2008, 02:40 AM
up ko lang para ma pansin ni sir Gchris ang tanong ko

Ross Arriola
June 5th, 2008, 09:23 AM
good thread...up up and away

paquito56
June 5th, 2008, 09:34 AM
Then overall, what is the best alignment setting, 11, 12 or 1' o clock ?? Thanks

gchrissuarez
June 5th, 2008, 10:32 AM
Lots of things to consider when tying knife. Like feet formation (peke/sakang); suitable lengh; angle/pattern; point (high/med/low} and weight. I use high point on low station short legger, medium point on lots of winds and wider knife on single strocker aged cock. The most important aspect is to put more emphasis on fighting style. If tying for somebody's rooster in hack, ask the owner. My one cent.

A very good tip from someone who has been in the game for a very long time. Thank you, Sonny.

gchrissuarez
June 5th, 2008, 10:36 AM
Sir gchris, gud am/pm to u i want to ask ur opinion regarding some blade maker made and align at 11.12 and 1Žoclock and what are there damages respectively more power to u and happy cocking. tnx n rgds.


Nikita, I have been pondering on how to put into words the 11, 12 or 1 o clock setting but decided that it would be better if you could see it personally. Send me a PM or e-mail.

gchrissuarez
June 5th, 2008, 11:07 AM
Then overall, what is the best alignment setting, 11, 12 or 1' o clock ?? Thanks

Paquito,

I tend to abhor the term "BEST" especially when I read it here at Sabong.net. It is like the threads with who has the Best Sweaters, Best Roundheads, Best Conditioning Aid, Best everything, etc.. There is no end to this kind of threads because everyone has their own opinions and experiences. Then someone tries to insist that they have the best when, in fact, they have never tried everything that they can exactly say which one it the best(every Sweater blood, every Roundhead blood, etc..) It would have been better if they'll just say that they have tried this breed and found it to be good.

Now, back to knife alignment, Although I have tried 11, 12 and 1 'o clock settings and I have my own preference which one of the 3 I like better, I still cannot tell you which one is the best because during a fight you will never know what will happen, the opponent is a moving target as well. I win my fair share of fights but I still lose to opponents with a different setting as opposed to mine. What I am writing here is what I have found to work best for me and my chickens and hope that it will also help anyone who reads and try it for themselves. I hope you get my meaning.

Take care.

Chris

knighttomahawk
June 5th, 2008, 11:33 AM
The late Emoy G. repeatedly say always in SULTADA " DO EVERYTHING TO WIN, EXCEPT CHEAT! ".

knighttomahawk
June 5th, 2008, 02:49 PM
Therefore, in short and in simple language SABONG means continue studying, experimenting and learning what works best to your chickens. Only the chicken knows the best because they're the one adapting your teachings and medications. "Kung nakakapagsalita lang sana ang manok".

knighttomahawk
June 5th, 2008, 02:53 PM
Sometimes CHEATERS do always win, but remember cheaters ALWAYS lose his soul in heaven. Fight your chicken fairly for you to understand the real meaning of sabong, Boy Diaz always says " Ang Sabong Sports Lang"

junmdz
June 5th, 2008, 03:37 PM
up up..............

paquito56
June 5th, 2008, 06:00 PM
Chris, i got your point and agree with you that chickens are moving targets, so really hard to determine which is the best , or i should say the favorite one. As you said, there isnt Best, just preference. Thanks so much my friend. Taker..

arch_adonis_rmp
June 5th, 2008, 06:17 PM
keep inputs coming. nice thread sirs

brownfox
June 7th, 2008, 02:30 PM
Nice thread, very informative! Keep it coming!:)

FirstBlood
June 10th, 2008, 06:57 PM
Gchrissuarez:

Thanx for ur comments, its in sharing that makes this site very interesting and educational. We may differ in some views but it makes us learn more. Now, we end up agreeing regarding the shufflers, and thats even better. =D

FirstBlood
June 10th, 2008, 07:06 PM
Regarding poison, let me share a story...

I heard this story, from a classmate in law school who also ties a tari, that there was once a sabungero who always wins with just one punch from his roosters. May it be a come from behind or unscathed he always wins. Now, one time after releasing a prized rooster it accidentally steps on the tari, instantaneously the rooster died. Wow!!! what a deadly poisonous tari he have...

So anybody here stills fights with poison on their tari? hehehe

brianna
June 10th, 2008, 07:54 PM
Another important check from sir magsaubay08 to properly set the knife on our roosters.


Ares, I will place the pics here soon.


Guys, Please share your other checks for proper knife alignment.


nice sir.........aabangan ko ko mga sample na picture nyo kung paano ang alignment sa mapa 1 o clock, 12 o clock, 2 o clock? napakalaking tulong po to sa katulad kng baguhan sa pagtatari.........

Taga_Cebu
June 10th, 2008, 07:57 PM
i think we're getting a little off topic here .... but hehe let me add a comment...


seriously guys, i also believe that cheaters should have no place in our sport but what is the purpose why we get better bloodlines, better conditioning, better handler and better etc... to have an edge against our competitor right ?... in going this far, why else would we find a better metal and a better GAFF MAKER ?... again to have that edge. So i guess as long as there's no cavity on the blade and upon inspection by the sentenciador everything is clean, then there shouldn't be anymore controversy. Besides during the gaffing you sure are welcome to watch the opponents rooster being heeled and if you find some discrepency then you should protest to the promoter. . .

I myself will find that edge anyway i can, but i will definitely not compromise any of my handlers lives and especially my life just for a point on the board and for a few T's. :)

tri_cast
June 10th, 2008, 07:59 PM
Regarding poison, let me share a story...

I heard this story, from a classmate in law school who also ties a tari, that there was once a sabungero who always wins with just one punch from his roosters. May it be a come from behind or unscathed he always wins. Now, one time after releasing a prized rooster it accidentally steps on the tari, instantaneously the rooster died. Wow!!! what a deadly poisonous tari he have...

So anybody here stills fights with poison on their tari? hehehe


Sir the big question is how about if the rooster is man figther or accidentally wounded upon tying the knife what a very expensive payment of the wrong doing or karma....

bluebird
June 12th, 2008, 07:17 AM
SIR
GOOD DAY
NICE TO HAVE YOU HEAR AT SABONG.NET FOR INSTRUCTION ABOUT TYING THE KNIFE.THIS IS VERY HELPFUL TO EVERYONE.
ABOUT THIS MATTER YOU MENTIONED
"Also regarding the 3rd check, if one sets the knife at high point, you are giving away a little reach advantage."
I HAVE WATCHED A YOU TUBE KNIFE TYING VIDEO ABOUT HIGH POINT AND LOW POINT ANGLED KNIVES. THE HIGH POINT GETS TO THE OPPONENT EARLIER RATHER THAN THE LOW OR MEDIUM POINT . SO AS TO ADVANTAGE ISNT IT THE HIGH POINT GETS THE MOST FATAL BLOW?

THANKS AND HAVE A NICE DAY

GMY
June 12th, 2008, 08:49 PM
SIR
GOOD DAY
NICE TO HAVE YOU HEAR AT SABONG.NET FOR INSTRUCTION ABOUT TYING THE KNIFE.THIS IS VERY HELPFUL TO EVERYONE.
ABOUT THIS MATTER YOU MENTIONED
"Also regarding the 3rd check, if one sets the knife at high point, you are giving away a little reach advantage."
I HAVE WATCHED A YOU TUBE KNIFE TYING VIDEO ABOUT HIGH POINT AND LOW POINT ANGLED KNIVES. THE HIGH POINT GETS TO THE OPPONENT EARLIER RATHER THAN THE LOW OR MEDIUM POINT . SO AS TO ADVANTAGE ISNT IT THE HIGH POINT GETS THE MOST FATAL BLOW?

THANKS AND HAVE A NICE DAY

augustmoo video yun ah?
:P

gchrissuarez
June 13th, 2008, 07:33 PM
Hello to all,

It has been a while since I am able to visit the site. I am glad that all agree to playing Fair and Square. It is better to be safe.


SIR
GOOD DAY
NICE TO HAVE YOU HEAR AT SABONG.NET FOR INSTRUCTION ABOUT TYING THE KNIFE.THIS IS VERY HELPFUL TO EVERYONE.
ABOUT THIS MATTER YOU MENTIONED
"Also regarding the 3rd check, if one sets the knife at high point, you are giving away a little reach advantage."
I HAVE WATCHED A YOU TUBE KNIFE TYING VIDEO ABOUT HIGH POINT AND LOW POINT ANGLED KNIVES. THE HIGH POINT GETS TO THE OPPONENT EARLIER RATHER THAN THE LOW OR MEDIUM POINT . SO AS TO ADVANTAGE ISNT IT THE HIGH POINT GETS THE MOST FATAL BLOW?

THANKS AND HAVE A NICE DAY

Sir Bluebird,

Fatality and reach advantage are 2 things.

I agree that high point knives are more fatal in terms of damages done.

Now let us take the reach advantage, remember that during a fight roosters are moving targets. They are not stationary. Especially nowadays, I seldom see roosters that do not weave or evade the blows of the opponent.

With that said, let us take the ball as the example. The ball is stationary and during close combat, yes. the high point will hit first and the medium and low point although will also be able to hit the target, they will come later than the high point.

Now, what if I adjust the ball backwards like a rooster evading a blow, the high point will fall short from the target but the medium or low point may still hit the ball or target.

There are pros and cons on high or low point knives. You just have to balance it out which will be more advantageous to you and your roosters.

Good Luck to all for the coming weekend fights!

Regards,
Chris

jack_kie
June 13th, 2008, 07:57 PM
Well said Sir Chris :D

Taga_Cebu
June 13th, 2008, 09:11 PM
that's why a rooster tied with the base of the blade at their spur (bawbaw in bisaya) inflicts less damaging blows than roosters tied regularly and is considered a "partida".

ARESFORTUN
June 13th, 2008, 09:49 PM
Nikita, I have been pondering on how to put into words the 11, 12 or 1 o clock setting but decided that it would be better if you could see it personally. Send me a PM or e-mail.



Sir, I am interested to see the photos of your setting... i hope you can send me a copy; aresfortuna@gmail.com.

Thanks and more power!

keloxx
June 17th, 2008, 04:23 PM
nice thread...!!

keep it up....

gchrissuarez
July 11th, 2008, 05:28 PM
I'll bump this up! I was told somebody was looking for me and this thread.

Sorry for being away from the internet for some time, will just update some photos and videos of the settings. Just visit this thread and my homepage from time to time for the updates.

Regards,
Chris

keloxx
July 11th, 2008, 06:10 PM
up....up....up....up

maghihintay ako at dadalaw dalaw dito
sa thread nyo

ARESFORTUN
July 17th, 2008, 08:04 PM
At last I found this thread again... More Power!:)

GMY
July 19th, 2008, 01:36 PM
balik lang kung may time ah..

Dynamite asil
July 19th, 2008, 04:30 PM
NICE threads Any update on the picture This will greatly help. I just fought 1x winner stag and he losses the second fight bec. my mananari was not in the pit and other mananari set the knife and my stag was hitting hard but he cannot manage to kill, and when I see his opponent he got a lot of hit but only pekete on not deep. And later on I met my mananari and he said to me" maraming sindikato raw dun sa nilalabanan namin". I think the knife setting is the culprit. bec this stag kill his opponent on the first fight with just one blow and in the second firgt he throw and hit hard but not able kill his opponent until he get trap at the glass and the opponent was able do break his wing and losses the fight.

beside Bloodline and conditioning, the knife is the final winning factor in cockfighting.

peatree
July 19th, 2008, 05:33 PM
keep learning! it is A MUST FOR BEGINERS. Practice tying is the only way to learn,

OREVON
July 19th, 2008, 05:57 PM
NICE threads Any update on the picture This will greatly help. I just fought 1x winner stag and he losses the second fight bec. my mananari was not in the pit and other mananari set the knife and my stag was hitting hard but he cannot manage to kill, and when I see his opponent he got a lot of hit but only pekete on not deep. And later on I met my mananari and he said to me" maraming sindikato raw dun sa nilalabanan namin". I think the knife setting is the culprit. bec this stag kill his opponent on the first fight with just one blow and in the second firgt he throw and hit hard but not able kill his opponent until he get trap at the glass and the opponent was able do break his wing and losses the fight.

beside Bloodline and conditioning, the knife is the final winning factor in cockfighting.

You are absolutely right on your last sentence.

Same happened to my 2x derby winner grey. On his 3rd fight my original mananari wasn't there so my handler knew somebody. During the fight my cock's opponent made "sabit" twice and tumbled. I said that's it but to my surprise he still went up and retaliated causing to hit back on my chicken. In short we lost. With those 2 sabit which my cock did to his previous opponents is already enough but this time it did not happen. After the fight I checked the gaff and found that it is out of alignment. I also found out later that the owner of the other cock is from the same barrio of the gaffer.

Lesson: Never trust the gaffing of your chicken to someone you really don't know. And it's better to know at least the right alignment so before the gaffer permanently put the knife at least you can take a look of it.

kingstaller
July 19th, 2008, 06:28 PM
I guess we've been a victim of a poisoned knife during a bigtime derby here in Butuan City. Our cock won against a prominent cocker here and sustained just a scratch on its thigh. We beat their 5th cock gunning for champion and we both settled for a 4W - 1L record. After 1 week, I can't believe our cock died from this wound. Sayang yung manok ang galing pa naman. Maybe a rule requiring knives to be screened or checked before tying should be adopted in cockfighting. Any thoughts on this.

Ariel R. Blanco
July 19th, 2008, 09:18 PM
Very Nice Thread, More Info Please.

redrooster25
July 20th, 2008, 02:39 AM
I guess we've been a victim of a poisoned knife during a bigtime derby here in Butuan City. Our cock won against a prominent cocker here and sustained just a scratch on its thigh. We beat their 5th cock gunning for champion and we both settled for a 4W - 1L record. After 1 week, I can't believe our cock died from this wound. Sayang yung manok ang galing pa naman. Maybe a rule requiring knives to be screened or checked before tying should be adopted in cockfighting. Any thoughts on this.

You're right Sir! There also should be a screening of knives prior to heeling. Some "sabungan" practice this screening but mostly only during derbies. Mindanao is known to manufacture these knives with extra "sting". :D

cajj820
July 20th, 2008, 03:05 AM
Verrrrry Nice thread!....

Sir Chris, i will really appreciate it if you can post alignment pictures. thanks and more power!

Regards,Sir cris me too ill be waiting 4 d Pic. onegaishimasu:p

cajj820
July 20th, 2008, 03:10 AM
Up Up Up.......watashi mo up up dake:p

romy 3388
July 20th, 2008, 03:18 AM
AFTER reading deffirent point I am desiding to
order more blade. what we need now would you say
a straighter blade. since we have already a curve type.

romy 3388
July 20th, 2008, 03:22 AM
sabi ng handler ko kong powede lang na
padalhan ng talibung iyong manok ay.
iwan ko ba.



may happlos din ba ang habagat?

fernan1552
July 20th, 2008, 03:36 AM
up up my friends.

ARESFORTUN
July 20th, 2008, 11:20 AM
I started tying the knife on my roosters last June 23 till now using SOME tips i got from here the results are 4 wins and 2 loses.... I am not yet really convinced if I have my alignment right. I hope we can see the alignment picture soon c/o our threadstarter. THANK YOU SIR!

PUREBLOODEDKANO
July 20th, 2008, 11:44 AM
romy 3388...i'd been contemplating on that type of knife design(straight and at med point).

marcusrn
July 20th, 2008, 11:14 PM
they've been using the almost straight tare in the 1960s. i guess it evolved into the very curved blade with the intro of multiple shuffling fowls. check out mr lansang's book (made in 1960s), the blades pictured were not very curved.

i would like to try it myself in the future as an experiment. i have seen some designs i like from mr banderado's web page.

kikiyo17ca
July 21st, 2008, 01:45 AM
up up:D :) :cool:

REDACE
July 21st, 2008, 02:15 AM
up, up, up.....


:o Another thing is the size of the Blade or the length of the gaff that we should use to our cocks, could anyone in the thread members here could tell us what should be the desire length that is right to be tied to a cock with their corresponding weight? I appreciate much to all cockmates who can contribute or has a wide experience on this event so that others may also gain an experience.

Sir Chris, I hope you can post the alignment pictures soon. Also, can you upload your video on determining the right knife length. I bought your knife tying VCD some years back and I remember a section in it which showed how to determine the right knife length.

ARESFORTUN
July 24th, 2008, 06:44 AM
Sir Chris , I hope you can find time to open and comment on this pictures... I am not sure if this alignment is the same with what your are trying to tell us. I am a beginner and I tied this yesterday, it Won but the fight went into a drag.

Thanks and More Power!


http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa51/aresfortuna/100_0001.jpg
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa51/aresfortuna/100_0002.jpg


Regards,

REDACE
July 24th, 2008, 12:11 PM
Sir Chris , I hope you can find time to open and comment on this pictures... I am not sure if this alignment is the same with what your are trying to tell us. I am a beginner and I tied this yesterday, it Won but the fight went into a drag.



Sir ARESFORTUN, I'm also a beginner and I'm just basing my comment on Sir Chris' 3rd check.

It looks as if your knife is tied a bit high. Nothing wrong with a high point knife especially if your cock is a flyer and hits his opponent on the break, but he may have a hard time killing his opponent on the ground. Also, as per Sir Chris, you are giving away some reach advantage.

Just my 2 cents worth.

redrooster25
July 24th, 2008, 12:53 PM
Sir Aresfortun, based on the pix you posted, the knife was set a bit higher from prop toe and "pasok"

16083

GMY
July 24th, 2008, 01:13 PM
base naman sa obserbasyon ko sa picture ay pasok ang asinta at medyo high point nga o nasa taas ng level ng tahid ang tare.. hindi nga lang sure kung highpoint nga ang tare kasi medyo nakatagilid...

sir ano ba ang ginawang sugat sa kalaban? mahabang hiwa ba? ganito kasi ang ginawang sugat ng manok ko sa kalaban ng tarian ko ng sobrang pasok. masmaganda kasi kung baon na medyo wasak..

profits
July 24th, 2008, 03:53 PM
sir aresfortun,

base sa aking experience may tendency na magbago ang alignment ng knife kung ang ginagamit ay traditional na sapin, gumagalaw ng konti o pumapasok o kaya ay lumalayo sa proptoe ang tari.
Kaya gumagamit po ako ng slasher pad.:)
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/profits_2007/slasherpad.jpg
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/profits_2007/tarialignment.jpg

redcard
July 24th, 2008, 05:26 PM
Sir Chris , I hope you can find time to open and comment on this pictures... I am not sure if this alignment is the same with what your are trying to tell us. I am a beginner and I tied this yesterday, it Won but the fight went into a drag.

Thanks and More Power!


http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa51/aresfortuna/100_0001.jpg
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa51/aresfortuna/100_0002.jpg


Regards,


Sir,
Congratulations on your win.
very good pictures,
Here is my humble opinion on your setting: 100_001.jpg first picture, your knife is aligned too far in, notice the gap between the proptoe and tari base is a wide "V" , I usually align with a skinnier "v" . what I aim for is the blade lining up in between the knee bones or prop toe tendon. if you flex the proptoe up and down notice the tendon in between the knee bones moving, thats what I align with.

2nd pic, your tari is tied a little too high up on the shank, about 4 mm would be right on.

of course this is just my opinion, I am also a beginner tying 17 fights so far. Keep practicing, and keep in mind that even if you knife alignment is perfect but your bird is off then there's nothing you can do.

hope this helps.

ARESFORTUN
July 24th, 2008, 05:26 PM
Thanks to all your inputs...

Indeed I guess it was set a little bit high, I am in the process of experimenting since I am afraid setting it a bit lower might cause the rooster not to have a full grip on the ground for that much needed blows (this is based on on the thread starter's input).

My rooster was actually hit first in the air in the initial buckles but it was not a major hit so when it went to the ground he was able to connect his own punches and that started the drag. The fatal wounds are; opponent has a stub wound near the base of the neck and a semi deep slash cut under the wings. Others are superficial. I did not see the wound personally as this was relayed to me by its handler.

I was trying to set the "V", and I have a feeling probably my setting moved. I am not really sure... Thanks sir Profits- I will try to look for a slasher pad and try it sometime.

Another query, what is the so called "PECTUS", How do you do it???

ARESFORTUN
July 24th, 2008, 05:32 PM
Sir,
Congratulations on your win.
very good pictures,
Here is my humble opinion on your setting: 100_001.jpg first picture, your knife is aligned too far in, notice the gap between the proptoe and tari base is a wide "V" , I usually align with a skinnier "v" . what I aim for is the blade lining up in between the knee bones or prop toe tendon. if you flex the proptoe up and down notice the tendon in between the knee bones moving, thats what I align with.

2nd pic, your tari is tied a little too high up on the shank, about 4 mm would be right on.

of course this is just my opinion, I am also a beginner tying 17 fights so far. Keep practicing, and keep in mind that even if you knife alignment is perfect but your bird is off then there's nothing you can do.

hope this helps.



Thanks sir!

Nice observation sir. I am now actually communicating with sir Chris and you share the same comment- the "V" is very wide. I will try to check this tendon when I go to my roosters...

God Bless!

buging
July 24th, 2008, 05:44 PM
nice discussion....
keep it up mga sir.....:D

marco1721
July 24th, 2008, 05:58 PM
may favorites type of knife is a high point,
d2 ako nag simula sa mga tari na high point
na ang angle ay medyo balabag parang 1:30 ang angle nya
since everytime ganun ang angle na nilalagay ko sa mga manok
ko ,isang palo or lipad ay sigurado na .

baguhan din sa pananari kaya base lang sa na experience ko....

tiririt
July 24th, 2008, 06:40 PM
Lakay Ares...your allignment looked fine but i for one, i would have used a shorter knife.

ARESFORTUN
July 24th, 2008, 08:16 PM
Lakay Ares...your allignment looked fine but i for one, i would have used a shorter knife.


Thanks sir! Point taken...:) but may i know why? i heard a lot of debate regarding the length of blade we use on fowls... some say it is better to use longer knives for farther reach (bangaan sa ere) while others say shorter knives are better for groundfighting.

Best regards,

tiririt
July 24th, 2008, 09:41 PM
Kabsat Ares,
I've been always more comfortable using shorter knife than tying a longer blade base on the fact that our birds spend more time fighting on the ground than in the air.In close quarters,in my opinion,the shorter knife is always an advantage.This is just my personal preferrence others may have a different view about it.In this hobby of "pagtatari", i think you need to develope your own style and go with the "asinta" that you are most comfortable with.

Domingo
July 24th, 2008, 09:59 PM
nice thread keep it up.

Alex Aguila
July 24th, 2008, 10:13 PM
Up Lang Po Natin. Ang Ganda Ng Topic.:)

OREVON
July 24th, 2008, 10:34 PM
sa palagay ko po wala sa short or long knife ang gagamitin. minsan po kasi longer knife ang gagamitin tapos di naman pala sukat sa "SHANK" ng manok kaya hirap din ang manok. mas maganda siguro suriin natin kung piki, tihaya, o normal ang paa ng ating manok at dun natin ibase kung gaano kahaba ang ilalagay nating tari.

jomari_pua
July 24th, 2008, 10:47 PM
nice thread... cge pa with your comments and contributions....

benjoy
July 24th, 2008, 11:50 PM
Kabsat Ares,
I've been always more comfortable using shorter knife than tying a longer blade base on the fact that our birds spend more time fighting on the ground than in the air.In close quarters,in my opinion,the shorter knife is always an advantage.This is just my personal preferrence others may have a different view about it.In this hobby of "pagtatari", i think you need to develope your own style and go with the "asinta" that you are most comfortable with.


We share the same concept of tying the knife amigo :)

ARESFORTUN
July 25th, 2008, 02:45 PM
Kabsat Ares,
I've been always more comfortable using shorter knife than tying a longer blade base on the fact that our birds spend more time fighting on the ground than in the air.In close quarters,in my opinion,the shorter knife is always an advantage.This is just my personal preferrence others may have a different view about it.In this hobby of "pagtatari", i think you need to develope your own style and go with the "asinta" that you are most comfortable with.


Thanks sir... I remember last July 2007 I got to speak with Mr. Jun Manguera at Makati Coliseum and he's sound advice to me about tying the knife is more or less the same with yours.... Establish your own style and once it's working for you then stick with it.

I also agree with using a shorter knife... Only, when my rooster is VERY short i will usually give him a longer knife in the belief that it will probably augment his short reach. :D

I guess indeed all mananari have their own style... still, it will be very nice for us to know the rationale behind every move in knife tying so that probably we can establish our own system that is actually based on hard facts. e.g... how can high, medium, low point affect the cutting of the roooster? How true is the statement that "Maloob" na tari will usually make your rooster hit himself? etc etc etc...

tiririt
July 26th, 2008, 04:53 AM
The Art of selecting birds for a show:

Many methods had been used since the advent of derby competition maybe, at its height in the early 70's. Veteran cockers even at that time used slow motion cameras to see how his gamecock throws his punches. However, at that time many were extremely dissapointed as to why and why inspite of these gadgets yielded negative results. Jesse answered me this way when i asked: a good gamebird bloodline is the determining factor. His ability to destroy an opponent with swift accuracy. And can best be explained not by cameras rolling but the knock-out punch or blow a bird can fatally execute. And this can't be seen by the naked eye.Why? because the angle of throwing a blow at the correct angle runs in the bloodline we are using of which training methods including feeding are secondary including also the bests knives. In this lights, Jesse defined cutting as inherently in the blood. However, style of fighting whether a flyer or shuffler or single stroker or multiple strapper is really of no moment-it is the ability to inflict serious or fatal injury upon contact. And that's s what cutting is all about.

Quoted by the master conditioner himself....my Kumpadre Bombit Abad



I got this one from Doc TJT's thread.True in every sense.

romy 3388
July 26th, 2008, 05:29 AM
For Me,as Soon As I See On The First Tie That,
The Knife Is Scuala To The Feet, And The Tip
Of The Knife Pointing To The Tip Of The Spur
Meaning They Are Equal Then I Am Good And The Next
I Dont Have To Cheack Again Because I Know My Guy.

ARESFORTUN
July 26th, 2008, 06:19 AM
For Me,as Soon As I See On The First Tie That,
The Knife Is Scuala To The Feet, And The Tip
Of The Knife Pointing To The Tip Of The Spur
Meaning They Are Equal Then I Am Good And The Next
I Dont Have To Cheack Again Because I Know My Guy.


Good Morning Sir! Is this the same with the alignment picture posted by Sir Profits? Thanks and More Power!

ARESFORTUN
July 26th, 2008, 06:28 AM
The Art of selecting birds for a show:

Many methods had been used since the advent of derby competition maybe, at its height in the early 70's. Veteran cockers even at that time used slow motion cameras to see how his gamecock throws his punches. However, at that time many were extremely dissapointed as to why and why inspite of these gadgets yielded negative results. Jesse answered me this way when i asked: a good gamebird bloodline is the determining factor. His ability to destroy an opponent with swift accuracy. And can best be explained not by cameras rolling but the knock-out punch or blow a bird can fatally execute. And this can't be seen by the naked eye.Why? because the angle of throwing a blow at the correct angle runs in the bloodline we are using of which training methods including feeding are secondary including also the bests knives. In this lights, Jesse defined cutting as inherently in the blood. However, style of fighting whether a flyer or shuffler or single stroker or multiple strapper is really of no moment-it is the ability to inflict serious or fatal injury upon contact. And that's s what cutting is all about.

Quoted by the master conditioner himself....my Kumpadre Bombit Abad



I got this one from Doc TJT's thread.True in every sense.


I agree sir! Whatever the fighting style of the rooster as long as he knows how to inflict his deadly blows then surely it will be Lights Out for the other rooster. I guess styles will only play an important role on the assumption that both roosters are equally blessed with cutting prowess.

As for the Knife, I heard some say that as long as the knife is tied at the back of the leg then surely it will KILL... the only reason why pagtatari is an ART is because the blessed mananari has the ability to tie it perfectly at an alignment that is seemingly perfect with the moves of the rooster making it a very efficient one clear hit one kill weapon.

OREVON
July 26th, 2008, 02:59 PM
I agree sir! Whatever the fighting style of the rooster as long as he knows how to inflict his deadly blows then surely it will be Lights Out for the other rooster. I guess styles will only play an important role on the assumption that both roosters are equally blessed with cutting prowess.

As for the Knife, I heard some say that as long as the knife is tied at the back of the leg then surely it will KILL... the only reason why pagtatari is an ART is because the blessed mananari has the ability to tie it perfectly at an alignment that is seemingly perfect with the moves of the rooster making it a very efficient one clear hit one kill weapon.


You are absolutely right Sir. I have received a lots of comments from the video I posted down (sinibalang warrior) that say's the alignment of the tari is still not good enough. That's why Im trying to learn at least the alignment so that before the mananari start to place the blade permanently I can have a look and suggest the right alignment.

fernan1552
July 26th, 2008, 03:54 PM
up up ko lang mga pare ko

ARESFORTUN
July 26th, 2008, 06:25 PM
You are absolutely right Sir. I have received a lots of comments from the video I posted down (sinibalang warrior) that say's the alignment of the tari is still not good enough. That's why Im trying to learn at least the alignment so that before the mananari start to place the blade permanently I can have a look and suggest the right alignment.


Nice Win sir! I guess we'll have to both wait for sir Chris Suarez (Threadstarter) to post the ideal alignment model for us to follow. The late Sir Emoy is an advocate of the "Pasok" style of tying the knife. I hope someone can post how this looks like...

good luck sir!

ARESFORTUN
July 27th, 2008, 05:57 PM
My friend tells me to look for a "DULING" na tari as he believes this type is more effective when roosters fight on the ground... I hope someone can give an input as to the nature of a "DULING" na tari???

Thanks!

romy 3388
July 27th, 2008, 06:54 PM
i agree 100%....but i usually check the knife if it is low,mid or high point before i tie the cotton tape or "sapin"...another thing also,is i usually check the feet if its palabas or normal,meaning normally aligned or palabas,so that i can adjust the "paunan" o that i can avoid pressing more thus making your bird hurt...


but then is it not that when sighting the posistion of the knife from the side
it is SCQUALA from the leg to the knife dnd the knife tip pointing to spur tip.

romy 3388
July 27th, 2008, 07:00 PM
but then is it not that when sighting the posistion of the knife from the side
it is SCQUALA from the leg to the knife dnd the knife tip pointing to spur tip.


HEY BOY, IF YOU DONT KNOW HOW TO TIE THAT KNIFE, LEAVE IT TO
THE EXPERT. LEARN HOW TO TIE YOUR SHOES FIRST.

romy 3388
July 27th, 2008, 07:03 PM
HEY BOY, IF YOU DONT KNOW HOW TO TIE THAT KNIFE, LEAVE IT TO
THE EXPERT. LEARN HOW TO TIE YOUR SHOES FIRST.


AT LEAST THATS WHAT MY DADY WARN ME

jovic_laraya1
July 27th, 2008, 10:24 PM
Keep them coming guys...Cheers

rebel
July 28th, 2008, 09:14 AM
This is a nice thread.Keep posting so we can learn..

Tiririt,
How are you?

Aresfortun,
Congrats on your fights. Best to evaluate your chicken's style of fighting before you set the alignment. In this way, you will have high chances of winning.

Regards

kikiyo17ca
July 28th, 2008, 10:40 AM
taas ko lang po:D :) :cool:

dondongaff
July 28th, 2008, 10:50 AM
greeting sir chris........... makidaan lang sa thread na ito maganda kasi ang topic dito. Share ko lang ang alignment ko using my twisted knife. open po ako ng comment and suggestion to gather more info and to improve more salamat po.

http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/dondongaffshop/?action=view&current=DSCN1742.jpg
http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/dondongaffshop/?action=view&current=DSCN1748.jpg
http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/dondongaffshop/?action=view&current=DSCN1746.jpg
http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/dondongaffshop/?action=view&current=DSCN1758.jpg
http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/dondongaffshop/?action=view&current=DSCN1751.jpg
http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/dondongaffshop/?action=view&current=DSCN1755.jpg

sana po may maiadd pa kayo.

Mana Mana
July 28th, 2008, 11:22 AM
greeting sir chris........... makidaan lang sa thread na ito maganda kasi ang topic dito. Share ko lang ang alignment ko using my twisted knife. open po ako ng comment and suggestion to gather more info and to improve more salamat po.

[/URL]
http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/dondongaffshop/?action=view&current=DSCN1751.jpg (http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/dondongaffshop/?action=view&current=DSCN1758.jpg)
[URL]http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/dondongaffshop/?action=view&current=DSCN1755.jpg

sana po may maiadd pa kayo.

Sir Dondon,
Sumusubaybay din po ako sa thread. Patingin naman po ng pix na nakatayo ang manok sideways.

rebel
July 28th, 2008, 01:29 PM
Some inputs...
If you just follow the natural spur alignment then you cannot go wrong with the setting. I was able to see some chickens with spurs 2-3 inches long and that is my basis on setting the knife. For me, shorter blade is effective in most fights.


Hi Chris,
For your information our friend from Malaysia was here in Manila last month for holidays and at the same time watched some fights in metro manila derbies. He saw some of my fights using his design and suggested another alignment and minor adjustment of the garol. In one of my fights, he went to the chicken doctor's area to check the chicken and alignment. He was smiling and said something to my handler which he could not understand because it was in english lol....

See you in Cebu soon.

ARESFORTUN
July 28th, 2008, 05:18 PM
This is a nice thread.Keep posting so we can learn..

Tiririt,
How are you?

Aresfortun,
Congrats on your fights. Best to evaluate your chicken's style of fighting before you set the alignment. In this way, you will have high chances of winning.

Regards


Thanks sir! I am having sleepless nights just by thinking about the proper alignment to be done on a particular rooster. hehehhe:D. Most of my rooster win when fighting is done on the ground and when they are not mortally wounded on the first few buckles (angatan)

ARESFORTUN
July 28th, 2008, 05:24 PM
greeting sir chris........... makidaan lang sa thread na ito maganda kasi ang topic dito. Share ko lang ang alignment ko using my twisted knife. open po ako ng comment and suggestion to gather more info and to improve more salamat po.

http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/dondongaffshop/?action=view&current=DSCN1742.jpg
http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/dondongaffshop/?action=view&current=DSCN1748.jpg
http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/dondongaffshop/?action=view&current=DSCN1746.jpg
http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/dondongaffshop/?action=view&current=DSCN1758.jpg
http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/dondongaffshop/?action=view&current=DSCN1751.jpg
http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/dondongaffshop/?action=view&current=DSCN1755.jpg

sana po may maiadd pa kayo.



Thanks sir Don!

I hope we can have the alignment of a "NORMAL" knife para makita natin difference with this "Twisted Knife". And also yung side view po sir para makita kung anong level ng tip ng blade sa spur.

More Power!

dondongaff
July 28th, 2008, 06:21 PM
Thanks sir Don!

I hope we can have the alignment of a "NORMAL" knife para makita natin difference with this "Twisted Knife". And also yung side view po sir para makita kung anong level ng tip ng blade sa spur.

More Power!

sir aresf try ko mag upload ulit ng picture ng normal na tari. nagkataon lang kanina na nagbreak kami so I manage to tied a stag for some viewing. Ito nga pala sideview nito

http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/dondongaffshop/?action=view&current=DSCN1754.jpg


sir manamana fan rin po ako sa inyo at sinusubaybayan ko yung update ng training nyo sana nga malapit lang ako dyan ng makasama naman kung baga some more tips at refresher course lang from a veteran like ng erpat mo.

ARESFORTUN
July 28th, 2008, 08:04 PM
sir aresf try ko mag upload ulit ng picture ng normal na tari. nagkataon lang kanina na nagbreak kami so I manage to tied a stag for some viewing. Ito nga pala sideview nito

http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/dondongaffshop/?action=view&current=DSCN1754.jpg


sir manamana fan rin po ako sa inyo at sinusubaybayan ko yung update ng training nyo sana nga malapit lang ako dyan ng makasama naman kung baga some more tips at refresher course lang from a veteran like ng erpat mo.


Sigue sir at wait po namin... Based sa discussion dito po I would assume "LOW POINT" po eto- hindi kaya po tatama ang tari sa lupa pag nakatayo ang manok? Ano po kaya advantage and/or disadvantage po ng ganitong kabit sir sa palagay niyo?

Thanks sir!

Mana Mana
July 29th, 2008, 09:11 AM
Sigue sir at wait po namin... Based sa discussion dito po I would assume "LOW POINT" po eto- hindi kaya po tatama ang tari sa lupa pag nakatayo ang manok? Ano po kaya advantage and/or disadvantage po ng ganitong kabit sir sa palagay niyo?

Thanks sir!

Up for sir aresfortun. same question, kaya i requested for side view.

Sir aresfortun, salamt po sa pagsubaybay ng thread namin. =)
Medjo malayo po kase ung sa inyo, kung kaya sana puntahan.
maganda kase sa actual lesson pinapakita.

nakikitingin lang po sa mga nag aaral kay erpat. pero d po ko student ni erpat, marketing lang nya. (kung pagbabasihan ang kabit) hindi po siguro ito low point. dahil mejo lagpas po sa tahid pagsinukat ng diretso sa duo ng tare. napansin ko rin po na pataas ang tubo ng tahid.

mukang high point ang tare, pero binababa lang ni sir dondon ang kabit, dahil pag masyado ng mataas ay baka likod na ng tare ang itatama.

sana marunong mag internet si erpat para nakapag share sya. =)

Mana Mana
July 29th, 2008, 09:33 AM
Sir chris, makikiads lang po. excuse me po.
Mana Mana
Knife Tying Class

in A1GFarm
noel (ali)
http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=7x-_k4nszU0

ARESFORTUN
July 29th, 2008, 09:33 AM
Up for sir aresfortun. same question, kaya i requested for side view.

Sir aresfortun, salamt po sa pagsubaybay ng thread namin. =)
Medjo malayo po kase ung sa inyo, kung kaya sana puntahan.
maganda kase sa actual lesson pinapakita.

nakikitingin lang po sa mga nag aaral kay erpat. pero d po ko student ni erpat, marketing lang nya. (kung pagbabasihan ang kabit) hindi po siguro ito low point. dahil mejo lagpas po sa tahid pagsinukat ng diretso sa duo ng tare. napansin ko rin po na pataas ang tubo ng tahid.

mukang high point ang tare, pero binababa lang ni sir dondon ang kabit, dahil pag masyado ng mataas ay baka likod na ng tare ang itatama.

sana marunong mag internet si erpat para nakapag share sya. =)


Salamat po sir! Nice observation... tingin ko kasi parang lalapat na ang likod ng tare pag pinatayo ang manok dahil sa base ng prop toe e medyo ka level niya or mas mababa pa yung pinagdikitan ng garol sa blade...

Sana nga magkalapit tayo... actually dito ako sa NET nag-aaral magtari. May mga nakakakwentuhan na sabungero pero walang formal lesson. Patingin-tingin lang....:D

Mana Mana
July 29th, 2008, 12:39 PM
Salamat po sir! Nice observation... tingin ko kasi parang lalapat na ang likod ng tare pag pinatayo ang manok dahil sa base ng prop toe e medyo ka level niya or mas mababa pa yung pinagdikitan ng garol sa blade...

Sana nga magkalapit tayo... actually dito ako sa NET nag-aaral magtari. May mga nakakakwentuhan na sabungero pero walang formal lesson. Patingin-tingin lang....:D

sir aresfortun, 29 lang ako. hehehe

"tingin ko kasi parang lalapat na ang likod ng tare pag pinatayo ang manok dahil sa base ng prop toe e medyo ka level niya or mas mababa pa yung pinagdikitan ng garol sa blade"

un din ang tingin ko bro. pero sa mga expert katulad nila sir dondon, mukang tanyado naman nila ang kabit nyan. sa porma ng tari ni sir dondon at pagkkabit, mukang flyer or angat sarado manok nya. makasolid punch lang ang nokis nya, tapos na ang laban.

Mana Mana
July 29th, 2008, 04:08 PM
sir manamana fan rin po ako sa inyo at sinusubaybayan ko yung update ng training nyo sana nga malapit lang ako dyan ng makasama naman kung baga some more tips at refresher course lang from a veteran like ng erpat mo.

sir dondon,
salamat. pag ikaw na kasama namin seminar, kailangan na natin ng malaking classroom. hehehe. dudumugin sigurado tayo pag nalaman kasama kayo. . :)

ARESFORTUN
July 29th, 2008, 04:19 PM
sir aresfortun, 29 lang ako. hehehe

"tingin ko kasi parang lalapat na ang likod ng tare pag pinatayo ang manok dahil sa base ng prop toe e medyo ka level niya or mas mababa pa yung pinagdikitan ng garol sa blade"

un din ang tingin ko bro. pero sa mga expert katulad nila sir dondon, mukang tanyado naman nila ang kabit nyan. sa porma ng tari ni sir dondon at pagkkabit, mukang flyer or angat sarado manok nya. makasolid punch lang ang nokis nya, tapos na ang laban.


Siguro nga po sir. Hindi pala tayo nagkakalayo sa edad... hehehe

dondongaff
July 29th, 2008, 11:15 PM
sir dondon,
salamat. pag ikaw na kasama namin seminar, kailangan na natin ng malaking classroom. hehehe. dudumugin sigurado tayo pag nalaman kasama kayo. . :)

ang sarap cguro makasama yung mga bihasa na sa pagtatari like ng erpat nyo.
Congrat po...

ARESFORTUN
July 30th, 2008, 12:50 PM
Share ko lang... practice tari with an old rooster leg. Mahirap lang po talaga kumuha ng alignment pag dry out na ang paa.:D


http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa51/aresfortuna/000_0043.jpg
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa51/aresfortuna/000_0042.jpg
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa51/aresfortuna/000_0027.jpg

Mana Mana
July 30th, 2008, 01:18 PM
Share ko lang... practice tari with an old rooster leg. Mahirap lang po talaga kumuha ng alignment pag dry out na ang paa.:D


http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa51/aresfortuna/000_0043.jpg
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa51/aresfortuna/000_0042.jpg
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa51/aresfortuna/000_0027.jpg

pakita ko to kay erpat bro. para makapagcomment sya.

ARESFORTUN
July 30th, 2008, 01:24 PM
pakita ko to kay erpat bro. para makapagcomment sya.


Thanks sir... sigue nga po para kahit hindi na ako magpatutor e puede na dito sampu ng mga kasabong nating interested matuto sa Art na eto. Please note po na super dry na ang paa at mahigit isat kalahating taon ko ng inaalagaan, size 10 po ng tari sa sample dito. Maliit lang ang Paa...

Thanks and More Power!

Mana Mana
July 30th, 2008, 01:32 PM
Thanks sir... sigue nga po para kahit hindi na ako magpatutor e puede na dito sampu ng mga kasabong nating interested matuto sa Art na eto. Please note po na super dry na ang paa at mahigit isat kalahating taon ko ng inaalagaan, size 10 po ng tari sa sample dito. Maliit lang ang Paa...

Thanks and More Power!

cge bro. may picture ka ba jan kung pano ka sumukat ng tareng ikakabit mo.

gchrissuarez
July 30th, 2008, 03:39 PM
Thanks sir!

Nice observation sir. I am now actually communicating with sir Chris and you share the same comment- the "V" is very wide. I will try to check this tendon when I go to my roosters...

God Bless!


Hello ARESFORTUN,

Were you able to tie it the way I suggested? Please let us know of the result and Good luck with your fights.

Like I pm'd you, I am in the process of producing the continuation of the video based on the questions raised here on the thread, that is why I have not been able to post here.

gchrissuarez
July 30th, 2008, 04:17 PM
Some inputs...
If you just follow the natural spur alignment then you cannot go wrong with the setting. I was able to see some chickens with spurs 2-3 inches long and that is my basis on setting the knife. For me, shorter blade is effective in most fights.


Hi Chris,
For your information our friend from Malaysia was here in Manila last month for holidays and at the same time watched some fights in metro manila derbies. He saw some of my fights using his design and suggested another alignment and minor adjustment of the garol. In one of my fights, he went to the chicken doctor's area to check the chicken and alignment. He was smiling and said something to my handler which he could not understand because it was in english lol....

See you in Cebu soon.

Hello Raul,

Thank you for visiting the thread and sharing your views on the length and settings. But the trend from the orders that I have been getting the past year are becoming longer so they also might be getting totally different results.


Yes, our friend called me up to join him in Manila for the fights but unfortunately I was already in Bohol the same week he was there in Manila. Yes, your handler would certainly have a hard time of understanding his English but if you've been with him for some time, you will understand him, the problem is you will probably adapt how he speaks English.LOL..

We'll you've already seen the effect of his setting when you went to KK. But from my recent communications with him, he said that instead of the Malaysian setting, he is now using the Indonesian setting. He sent me a Fork knife with this setting and wanted me to copy it for him to use when he comes here in October or November. As you know the "Sulat" cannot be used here anymore after our outing during the Sinulog.

Please dp let me know when you come to Cebu so I can take a peak at that personal setting of yours.

ARESFORTUN
July 30th, 2008, 05:32 PM
cge bro. may picture ka ba jan kung pano ka sumukat ng tareng ikakabit mo.

Try ko kuhanan sir... pero personally i go for shorter knives at medyo tiwala din sa prinsipyong mas effective eto sa infighting.

ARESFORTUN
July 30th, 2008, 05:33 PM
Hello ARESFORTUN,

Were you able to tie it the way I suggested? Please let us know of the result and Good luck with your fights.

Like I pm'd you, I am in the process of producing the continuation of the video based on the questions raised here on the thread, that is why I have not been able to post here.


Not Yet sir since all my roosters are moulting... I have saved your suggestions and I am looking forward to applying it in my next outing.

Thanks and more Power!

ARESFORTUN
July 30th, 2008, 05:35 PM
Hello Raul,

Thank you for visiting the thread and sharing your views on the length and settings. But the trend from the orders that I have been getting the past year are becoming longer so they also might be getting totally different results.


Yes, our friend called me up to join him in Manila for the fights but unfortunately I was already in Bohol the same week he was there in Manila. Yes, your handler would certainly have a hard time of understanding his English but if you've been with him for some time, you will understand him, the problem is you will probably adapt how he speaks English.LOL..

We'll you've already seen the effect of his setting when you went to KK. But from my recent communications with him, he said that instead of the Malaysian setting, he is now using the Indonesian setting. He sent me a Fork knife with this setting and wanted me to copy it for him to use when he comes here in October or November. As you know the "Sulat" cannot be used here anymore after our outing during the Sinulog.

Please dp let me know when you come to Cebu so I can take a peak at that personal setting of yours.

WOW I hope we can have a peek at this new setting...Thanks!

kikiyo17ca
July 30th, 2008, 07:49 PM
taas ko lang po:D :) :cool:

romy 3388
July 30th, 2008, 07:53 PM
Wow Wow..............

kikiyo17ca
July 30th, 2008, 08:47 PM
sir mana mana, tanong lang po,,,ano po ba ang magandang asinta sa pagtatari basi po sa inyong karanasan?.
maraming salamat po.


kikiyo17ca

REDACE
July 31st, 2008, 01:45 AM
greeting sir chris........... makidaan lang sa thread na ito maganda kasi ang topic dito. Share ko lang ang alignment ko using my twisted knife. open po ako ng comment and suggestion to gather more info and to improve more salamat po.

http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/dondongaffshop/?action=view&current=DSCN1742.jpg
http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/dondongaffshop/?action=view&current=DSCN1748.jpg
http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/dondongaffshop/?action=view&current=DSCN1746.jpg
http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/dondongaffshop/?action=view&current=DSCN1758.jpg
http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/dondongaffshop/?action=view&current=DSCN1751.jpg
http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/dondongaffshop/?action=view&current=DSCN1755.jpg

sana po may maiadd pa kayo.

Bai Dondon, 'musta na......
nice photos. Are your twisted knives the same as what the others use in "libat" or "duling" setting?

REDACE
July 31st, 2008, 01:55 AM
Sir chris, makikiads lang po. excuse me po.
Mana Mana
Knife Tying Class

in A1GFarm
noel (ali)
http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=7x-_k4nszU0
Bro Allan, tuluy-tuloy na talaga ang MANA MANA KNIFE TYING ACADEMY!!!

Mga kasabong, kasama ako sa Mana Mana Knife Tying Class Batch 1. Marami akong natutunan at ang mga kamalian ko ay nakorek. Magaling talaga si Tatay Carlets magturo.

Mana Mana
July 31st, 2008, 08:07 AM
Bro Allan, tuluy-tuloy na talaga ang MANA MANA KNIFE TYING ACADEMY!!!

Mga kasabong, kasama ako sa Mana Mana Knife Tying Class Batch 1. Marami akong natutunan at ang mga kamalian ko ay nakorek. Magaling talaga si Tatay Carlets magturo.

Naku sir albert. salamat po. naligaw na yata tayo ng bahay.

Mana Mana
July 31st, 2008, 08:10 AM
sir mana mana, tanong lang po,,,ano po ba ang magandang asinta sa pagtatari basi po sa inyong karanasan?.
maraming salamat po.

kikiyo17ca

Bro. dun na kita sasagutin sa thread ng knife tying ha.

GMY
July 31st, 2008, 09:32 PM
greeting sir chris........... makidaan lang sa thread na ito maganda kasi ang topic dito. Share ko lang ang alignment ko using my twisted knife. open po ako ng comment and suggestion to gather more info and to improve more salamat po.

http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/dondongaffshop/?action=view&current=DSCN1742.jpg
http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/dondongaffshop/?action=view&current=DSCN1748.jpg
http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/dondongaffshop/?action=view&current=DSCN1746.jpg
http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/dondongaffshop/?action=view&current=DSCN1758.jpg
http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/dondongaffshop/?action=view&current=DSCN1751.jpg
http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/dondongaffshop/?action=view&current=DSCN1755.jpg

sana po may maiadd pa kayo.



bro, ano po ba ang ibig niyo sabihin ng twisted knife? ito po ba yung knife na naka set ang blade papunta sa litid ng tuhod? kagaya ng mga traditional knife?
thanks

ARESFORTUN
August 1st, 2008, 08:55 AM
UP ko lang mga kasabong. Baka may mag share pa ng kanilang expertise...

More Power!

Mana Mana
August 1st, 2008, 10:01 AM
sir aresf try ko mag upload ulit ng picture ng normal na tari. nagkataon lang kanina na nagbreak kami so I manage to tied a stag for some viewing. Ito nga pala sideview nito

http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/dondongaffshop/?action=view&current=DSCN1754.jpg


sir manamana fan rin po ako sa inyo at sinusubaybayan ko yung update ng training nyo sana nga malapit lang ako dyan ng makasama naman kung baga some more tips at refresher course lang from a veteran like ng erpat mo.

Sir dondon,
ok k erpat tong kabit na to. nagkakabit din sya ng ganito.
maganda raw tumama to.

redcard
August 2nd, 2008, 10:19 AM
Share ko lang... practice tari with an old rooster leg. Mahirap lang po talaga kumuha ng alignment pag dry out na ang paa.:D


http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa51/aresfortuna/000_0043.jpg
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa51/aresfortuna/000_0042.jpg
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa51/aresfortuna/000_0027.jpg

Aresfortun,

Your alignment still looks to be a bit angled in too far, it looks like its aligned with the spur.
I usually like to see the alignment midway between the proptoe and spur. Of course it is "mahirap" difficult? Is that correct? my Tagalog is rusty.
Its difficult to align properly on a dried up chicken leg as the prop toes usually end up drying up in a position too far in thereby forcing the tari neck toward the spur. If you are able to obtain another leg sample, try tying the prop toe in the up and out position then drying it that way.

here is a link to an excellent short video where you can see the alignment very clearly. its not a traditional pilipino fork knife but a malay type but the way the knife is attached to the bottom of the foot give an accurate reference point and shows the foot position in relation to the knife pointing to the proptoe tendon. thank you to mr. Suarez for uploading this video.

link here: http://www.zippyvideos.com/6127789572478636/malaysian_set/*gchrissuarez

Taga_Cebu
August 2nd, 2008, 01:04 PM
gandang thread ito! :) thanks for sharing some infos to us aspiring gaffers.

ARESFORTUN
August 2nd, 2008, 11:06 PM
Aresfortun,

Your alignment still looks to be a bit angled in too far, it looks like its aligned with the spur.
I usually like to see the alignment midway between the proptoe and spur. Of course it is "mahirap" difficult? Is that correct? my Tagalog is rusty.
Its difficult to align properly on a dried up chicken leg as the prop toes usually end up drying up in a position too far in thereby forcing the tari neck toward the spur. If you are able to obtain another leg sample, try tying the prop toe in the up and out position then drying it that way.

here is a link to an excellent short video where you can see the alignment very clearly. its not a traditional pilipino fork knife but a malay type but the way the knife is attached to the bottom of the foot give an accurate reference point and shows the foot position in relation to the knife pointing to the proptoe tendon. thank you to mr. Suarez for uploading this video.

link here: http://www.zippyvideos.com/6127789572478636/malaysian_set/*gchrissuarez


Thanks sir for the pointers... surely this will a lot in our quest to tie the knife properly.:) More Power!

redcard
August 3rd, 2008, 08:35 AM
Thanks sir for the pointers... surely this will a lot in our quest to tie the knife properly.:) More Power!

Thank you also sir,
for sharing your experience.

GMY
August 3rd, 2008, 06:36 PM
sir, i'm just curious why some of us are so dependent on how malaysians and indonesians tie their knife or allign their knife.. I know a person who is popular here in the philippines in knife tying and told me that he took his idea or allignment of knife in malaysia when he witnessed cockfighting there.

Are they really better than us with regards to knife tying?

redcard
August 4th, 2008, 03:54 AM
sir, i'm just curious why some of us are so dependent on how malaysians and indonesians tie their knife or allign their knife.. I know a person who is popular here in the philippines in knife tying and told me that he took his idea or allignment of knife in malaysia when he witnessed cockfighting there.

Are they really better than us with regards to knife tying?

Well, the reason I like the Malaysian set is that its easier to see how the alignment is done in reference to the feet and the shank. the Malay knife that I saw is not a fork knife, its more like a indian or bali design where part of the support goes under the foot and up the shank. I still feel that the pilipino fork knife is the best attachment method but it was harder to align consistently when I was first learning due to people telling me to align the knife pointing at the "vent". there was too much room for error that way if depending on the way you pull the leg or sight the aim. I guess if you are experienced enough that would be great but as for me I am still starting out so aiming for the proptoe tendon/ between the knee bones is the easiest way to get a good alignment everytime.

Still learning here so I would appreciate any tips or corrections.

redcard
August 4th, 2008, 07:47 PM
Well, the reason I like the Malaysian set is that its easier to see how the alignment is done in reference to the feet and the shank. the Malay knife that I saw is not a fork knife, its more like a indian or bali design where part of the support goes under the foot and up the shank. I still feel that the pilipino fork knife is the best attachment method but it was harder to align consistently when I was first learning due to people telling me to align the knife pointing at the "vent". there was too much room for error that way if depending on the way you pull the leg or sight the aim. I guess if you are experienced enough that would be great but as for me I am still starting out so aiming for the proptoe tendon/ between the knee bones is the easiest way to get a good alignment everytime.

Still learning here so I would appreciate any tips or corrections.
up

Yellow Hatch
August 4th, 2008, 08:09 PM
Sir DONDONGAFF,

I notice that you are using the a twisted knife.
I understand, the knife it self is set at 12o'clock and twisted to the left when knife is pointed at you. I too have used this knife, I was doin fine using the knife only for a well set legs and knee. If leg are "tihaya" my knife barely could make a good cut, but with cocks having a well set leg, a single hit could make huge difference. I still haven't figure it thou, but I never lost a bird with well set legs using a "twisted knife" out of 5 birds. ( please dont ask how many birds lost with "deffective" set legs ......... hehehehehehe!)

Wound usually very small from the outside, but tremendous damage inside.

Any inputs with your experience?

Good Day Sir.

romy 3388
August 4th, 2008, 08:12 PM
hahahaha..karma is always there for cheaters..


TARI TARI LANG SA BACKYARD

GMY
August 4th, 2008, 10:00 PM
Sir DONDONGAFF,

I notice that you are using the a twisted knife.
I understand, the knife it self is set at 12o'clock and twisted to the left when knife is pointed at you. I too have used this knife, I was doin fine using the knife only for a well set legs and knee. If leg are "tihaya" my knife barely could make a good cut, but with cocks having a well set leg, a single hit could make huge difference. I still haven't figure it thou, but I never lost a bird with well set legs using a "twisted knife" out of 5 birds. ( please dont ask how many birds lost with "deffective" set legs ......... hehehehehehe!)

Wound usually very small from the outside, but tremendous damage inside.

Any inputs with your experience?

Good Day Sir.

This is also what i noticed using this style of setting because i have used it before even though my knife is set at 1 oclock, i just compensate it by twisting the fork to the left.

ARESFORTUN
August 5th, 2008, 09:53 AM
This is also what i noticed using this style of setting because i have used it before even though my knife is set at 1 oclock, i just compensate it by twisting the fork to the left.


Sir, could you explain to me further what 1 o clock setting is all about? Paano niyo po eto ginagawa?

Maraming Salamat sir.

jovic_laraya1
August 5th, 2008, 04:42 PM
Sir DONDONGAFF,

I notice that you are using the a twisted knife.
I understand, the knife it self is set at 12o'clock and twisted to the left when knife is pointed at you. I too have used this knife, I was doin fine using the knife only for a well set legs and knee. If leg are "tihaya" my knife barely could make a good cut, but with cocks having a well set leg, a single hit could make huge difference. I still haven't figure it thou, but I never lost a bird with well set legs using a "twisted knife" out of 5 birds. ( please dont ask how many birds lost with "deffective" set legs ......... hehehehehehe!)

Wound usually very small from the outside, but tremendous damage inside.

Any inputs with your experience?

Good Day Sir.
Yellow hatch. i have been using the same setting (little twist to the left) for 3 yrs now in derbies with good results. my experience is contrary to yours. the wounds are very big and usualy forms a no. 7 cut (siete) especially on the break. for legs that are tihaya, set them aligned to the spurs and add a little twist to the left. hope this helps. cheers and mabuhay.

redcard
August 5th, 2008, 07:54 PM
Yellow hatch. i have been using the same setting (little twist to the left) for 3 yrs now in derbies with good results. my experience is contrary to yours. the wounds are very big and usualy forms a no. 7 cut (siete) especially on the break. for legs that are tihaya, set them aligned to the spurs and add a little twist to the left. hope this helps. cheers and mabuhay.

What is tiyaha? lie on your bacK?

kikiyo17ca
August 5th, 2008, 08:37 PM
taas ko lang po..musta sa lahat.:D :) :cool:

jovic_laraya1
August 5th, 2008, 08:54 PM
What is tiyaha? lie on your bacK?
Tihaya is a tagalog term which means the prop toe is aligned in the 11o'clock area when viewed from the foot pad (foot pad facing you). hope this helps.

redcard
August 6th, 2008, 03:41 AM
Tihaya is a tagalog term which means the prop toe is aligned in the 11o'clock area when viewed from the foot pad (foot pad facing you). hope this helps.
Thanks for the definition. Is that because the way the prop toe grows or is it because the legs crooked? like knees spread out a little?

gchrissuarez
August 6th, 2008, 02:11 PM
Hello redcard,

That knife is called the Sulat. We used it here in Cebu during the Sinulog and they would always call the odds against us because of how the rooster would walk with this tied on but it would be one with a great set that got banned. They would say it has poison but I assure you it doesn't because we made it here.

The following months, we used the other Malaysian knife which is the Tinjin and same thing happened when we would be winning, they would oppose us in tying anything other than a Fork knife. CEGBA and Gallera de Mandaue are the only ones to accept this knife in their derbies. I commend the officers of CEGBA and the management of Gallera de Mandaue for their open-mindedness.

But no matter, we already have that set in the Fork and Adjustable Sockets for the other cockpits.

Good luck with your future fights.

Regards,
Chris

redcard
August 6th, 2008, 07:59 PM
Hello redcard,

That knife is called the Sulat. We used it here in Cebu during the Sinulog and they would always call the odds against us because of how the rooster would walk with this tied on but it would be one with a great set that got banned. They would say it has poison but I assure you it doesn't because we made it here.

The following months, we used the other Malaysian knife which is the Tinjin and same thing happened when we would be winning, they would oppose us in tying anything other than a Fork knife. CEGBA and Gallera de Mandaue are the only ones to accept this knife in their derbies. I commend the officers of CEGBA and the management of Gallera de Mandaue for their open-mindedness.

But no matter, we already have that set in the Fork and Adjustable Sockets for the other cockpits.

Good luck with your future fights.

Regards,
Chris

Chris,
Thanks for the info, by the way, is the sulat knife used with sapin?
what is the difference with the Tinjin?

Thats unfair that the sulat would be banned from the pit, thats just crazy!
I would like to see any links that show how to heel this type of knife, Im very interested.
Good luck with your future fights as well.

regards,
Mar

ARESFORTUN
August 6th, 2008, 08:19 PM
Sir Chris/ Others:

I want to know how the 11, 12, 1 o'clock setting is done... what is the reference point for us to know if it is aligned on our desired setting?

I am posting this picture as a reference... what do you think is its setting? How can i further improve on it ???

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa51/aresfortuna/100_0086.jpg
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa51/aresfortuna/100_0088.jpg

Thanks and More Power!

GMY
August 6th, 2008, 09:03 PM
Sir Chris/ Others:

I want to know how the 11, 12, 1 o'clock setting is done... what is the reference point for us to know if it is aligned on our desired setting?

I am posting this picture as a reference... what do you think is its setting? How can i further improve on it ???

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa51/aresfortuna/100_0086.jpg
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa51/aresfortuna/100_0088.jpg

Thanks and More Power!

sir, mukhang 12 oclock ang setting dahil sa angle ng kuha ng camera pero sa tingin ko 1 oclock ang setting nito dahil naka v shape ang proptoe at blade.

ARESFORTUN
August 6th, 2008, 09:15 PM
sir, mukhang 12 oclock ang setting dahil sa angle ng kuha ng camera pero sa tingin ko 1 oclock ang setting nito dahil naka v shape ang proptoe at blade.


Thanks sir! Paano po ba ang 1 o clock setting? ano po ang point of reference nito?

jovic_laraya1
August 6th, 2008, 09:47 PM
Thanks for the definition. Is that because the way the prop toe grows or is it because the legs crooked? like knees spread out a little?

Redcard, i really am not sure how to explain this but i'll try. the way i identify if the leg is "tihaya" is if the left elbow is a bit going out (palabas). the exact opposite is piki (elbow is going in). if the elbow is perfectly set then the leg is normal(perfect). therefore it is imperative for us to set the knife inner if tihaya and to set the knife much close to the prop toe if piki. hope this helps. cheers

Yellow Hatch
August 7th, 2008, 01:30 AM
Yellow hatch. i have been using the same setting (little twist to the left) for 3 yrs now in derbies with good results. my experience is contrary to yours. the wounds are very big and usualy forms a no. 7 cut (siete) especially on the break. for legs that are tihaya, set them aligned to the spurs and add a little twist to the left. hope this helps. cheers and mabuhay.


Jovic,

.... that great you have been winning with the knife setting. Your experience could enlighten my unresolved question about the knife.

.... there are actually some wound that would have slashing cuts but most cases I would have stabs. I'm quite hesitant to set the knife going in for the "tihaya legs" since knife looks to awkward already.

Hope you could share pix.


GMY,

..... the way I look at the knife as I walk the cock, they would look further inwards.
As I understand in the knife setting, the knife body part should go inwards as the tip of the knife goes outward, thus pointing the knife at same stroke/stab line the cocks throw. So, in my limited experience most wound that my cock would deliver are mostly stabs.
But I'm still hoping to be enlighten with the idea I got........... :-)


Good day!

Yellow Hatch
August 7th, 2008, 01:37 AM
Sir Chris/ Others:

I want to know how the 11, 12, 1 o'clock setting is done... what is the reference point for us to know if it is aligned on our desired setting?

I am posting this picture as a reference... what do you think is its setting? How can i further improve on it ???

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa51/aresfortuna/100_0086.jpg
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa51/aresfortuna/100_0088.jpg

Thanks and More Power!


Bro,

I can't perfectly relate with the 1st pix, but with the knife setting at 1 o'clock, the knife should point at 1 o'clock as you stretch back the cocks leg parallel to the body. I'f you happen to have a friend that ties the knife in the regular hackfights they usually set knives at 1 o'clock to play safe with any complains.


more power and good day.

redcard
August 7th, 2008, 03:43 AM
Redcard, i really am not sure how to explain this but i'll try. the way i identify if the leg is "tihaya" is if the left elbow is a bit going out (palabas). the exact opposite is piki (elbow is going in). if the elbow is perfectly set then the leg is normal(perfect). therefore it is imperative for us to set the knife inner if tihaya and to set the knife much close to the prop toe if piki. hope this helps. cheers

Jovic,
that explains it perfectly. I am used to hearing pigeon toed (tihaya) feet pointing in like this / \

or duck or penguin toed (piki) feet pointing out like this \ /.

thanks for the explanation.

jovic_laraya1
August 7th, 2008, 09:03 AM
Jovic,
that explains it perfectly. I am used to hearing pigeon toed (tihaya) feet pointing in like this / \

or duck or penguin toed (piki) feet pointing out like this \ /.

thanks for the explanation.
you're very much welcome redcard. godbless

jovic_laraya1
August 7th, 2008, 09:13 AM
Jovic,

.... that great you have been winning with the knife setting. Your experience could enlighten my unresolved question about the knife.

.... there are actually some wound that would have slashing cuts but most cases I would have stabs. I'm quite hesitant to set the knife going in for the "tihaya legs" since knife looks to awkward already.

Hope you could share pix.


GMY,

..... the way I look at the knife as I walk the cock, they would look further inwards.
As I understand in the knife setting, the knife body part should go inwards as the tip of the knife goes outward, thus pointing the knife at same stroke/stab line the cocks throw. So, in my limited experience most wound that my cock would deliver are mostly stabs.
But I'm still hoping to be enlighten with the idea I got........... :-)


Yellow Hatch, the way i see it, the reason you are sometimes getting stab wounds and not slashing wounds is that the point is not driven to the hilt. i guess many factors are involved here. 1 factor is that you have a moving target that your cock failed to nail a perfect shot. another factor is maybe you set your knife at a lower point (below of the spur/low point). what i normally do is have the point of the knife set at middle of the spur for a cock with all-around fighting skills and set the knife at high point for high breaking cocks. and may i add that the length of the knife is also very important. use knife of the right length. if i may just make an unsolicited advice to use a shorter knike when in doubt. hope this helps.




Good day!

ARESFORTUN
August 7th, 2008, 10:33 AM
Bro,

I can't perfectly relate with the 1st pix, but with the knife setting at 1 o'clock, the knife should point at 1 o'clock as you stretch back the cocks leg parallel to the body. I'f you happen to have a friend that ties the knife in the regular hackfights they usually set knives at 1 o'clock to play safe with any complains.


more power and good day.



Thanks for the input sir.... More power!

bonzi3803
August 7th, 2008, 03:44 PM
i set my knife 2 oclock. taring pang big time natatawa sila pag nakita nila ako nagtatari ewan ko..

jovic_laraya1
August 7th, 2008, 05:33 PM
i set my knife 2 oclock. taring pang big time natatawa sila pag nakita nila ako nagtatari ewan ko..
i can relate to that bonzi. specialy in the provinces, they will get awed or perplexed if they see you align at 2 O'clock or aligned with the spur. they think you're going nuts or a beginner. hehehehe. but just continue to believe in your alignment and make the necessary adjustments.......your alignment has been proven in the big leagues.....cheers

Yellow Hatch
August 7th, 2008, 09:40 PM
Jovic,

Thank you!
Guess that could explain the stab wounds. I usually used shorter knife, the longest knife I have is 3 1/8", usually I use 2 3/4- 2 7/8 for medium station birds.
By the way, you from ormoc? Are you a member of EVGBA?


Brod Aresfortun,

No probs! I'm simply sharing what I learn and in the process learning new stuff as well.
Please feel free to visit our thread......... jhehehehehehehe.

Good day!

rebel
August 8th, 2008, 08:16 AM
Nice inputs here.

Jovic,
When the legs are tihaya or the elbow is set outward, you set the knife inner? Why is that so? I tried that setting before and it is not as effective when you align it with the spur. Any defects in the leg be it tihaya or piki, I just align my knife with the spur.

Just my 3 cents.

I have a question for all gaffers: How do you measure the lenght of the knife? I know one gaffer who uses the same lenght of the blade in all his chickens. He does not care if his chickens are 1.8kg or 2.4 kg. Do you know why?

Regards

ncyabut
August 8th, 2008, 08:33 AM
a follow up question: if you align your knives to the cock's spur, thus forming that "v" shaped gap between the knife and the prop toe. it has been mentioned that it is advisable to use a shorter knife. if so, how short is short? i mean, how do you measure which knife to use? what is your point of reference for the length of the knife?

lanipao
August 8th, 2008, 10:11 AM
Follow question with knives aligned with the spur.Whats the best setting?low,medium or high point?Whats the reason why they tilt the blade going inwards(direction towards the body of the rooster)?Thanks.

jovic_laraya1
August 8th, 2008, 02:13 PM
Nice inputs here.

Jovic,
When the legs are tihaya or the elbow is set outward, you set the knife inner? Why is that so? I tried that setting before and it is not as effective when you align it with the spur. Any defects in the leg be it tihaya or piki, I just align my knife with the spur.

Just my 3 cents.

I have a question for all gaffers: How do you measure the lenght of the knife? I know one gaffer who uses the same lenght of the blade in all his chickens. He does not care if his chickens are 1.8kg or 2.4 kg. Do you know why?

Regards
Rebel, i guess we are on the same page here. what i mean by aligning the knife inner is aligned with the spur. based on my short experience, if leg is tihaya, its imperative to align the knife with the spur. but if the leg is piki, i usualy align the knife closer to the prop toe ( very close to the prop toe if sobrang piki and b/w prop toe and spur if not so piki. i hope you see the wisdom and practicality of my setting. anyway, that's what makes sabong more interesting. there is no 1 perfect way or all of us will be super champions and millionairs.hehehehe.....cheers and godbless.

jovic_laraya1
August 8th, 2008, 02:20 PM
Jovic,

Thank you!
Guess that could explain the stab wounds. I usually used shorter knife, the longest knife I have is 3 1/8", usually I use 2 3/4- 2 7/8 for medium station birds.
By the way, you from ormoc? Are you a member of EVGBA?


Brod Aresfortun,

No probs! I'm simply sharing what I learn and in the process learning new stuff as well.
Please feel free to visit our thread......... jhehehehehehehe.

Good day!

Yellow hatch, i've been using 3" - 3 5/16" for our chickens but for this stag season, i will be using 3" - 3 1/4" knives. i have been assigned in ormoc for 11 yrs now due to my profession. i am not a member of EVGBA however , i am a member of BIGBA in bicol and presently fighting with my partners in the BBC since our new farm is in batangas. thanks and regards.

julius aparicio
August 8th, 2008, 02:35 PM
3 checks for Proper Knife Alignment

First check, look at the blade from the bottom view(talampakan) it should coincide that the blade is parallel to the shank(12 o' clock) and the tip will point at the prop toe tendon. The blade and the prop toe should be forming a small letter V. The blade is positioned in between the spur and the prop toe. And not directly below the spur as there will be high probability that your rooster will hit himself.

Now the 2nd check is to make sure that the knife tip does not go over the midline of the body of the rooster, thus preventing probability of self-inflicted injury. Look at the knife from the back of the rooster, letting the feet loose, so when you straighten both feet up, the tip of the knife should be in between the them and is in turn pointed at the a-s-s. Do not go over the a-s-s. There is a high probability that your rooster will hit himself.

If you have the 1st check right and the 2nd check still goes over the a-s-s, you probably are using a longer knife than one that fits your rooster.

The 3rd check will determine if you have the knife point set at low, medium or high point. Look at the knife and shank sideways, if the tip of the knife is lower than the center of the spur, it is low point. If higher than the center of the spur, it is high point. If exactly center of the spur, mid point.

Also regarding the 3rd check, if one sets the knife at high point, you are giving away a little reach advantage.

Hope this helps you in tying your knives. Goog Luck on all your fights.

Chris Suarez


Chris thanks for sharing this is a big help to us who wants to know how the alignment will be.

jovic_laraya1
August 8th, 2008, 02:35 PM
Nice inputs here.

Jovic,
When the legs are tihaya or the elbow is set outward, you set the knife inner? Why is that so? I tried that setting before and it is not as effective when you align it with the spur. Any defects in the leg be it tihaya or piki, I just align my knife with the spur.

Just my 3 cents.

I have a question for all gaffers: How do you measure the lenght of the knife? I know one gaffer who uses the same lenght of the blade in all his chickens. He does not care if his chickens are 1.8kg or 2.4 kg. Do you know why?

Regards

Bai Rebel, nice input sir. i completely get your drift amigo. basicaly i have been following this basic principle for the past 3-4 yrs or so: 1) for piki birds, i align near the prop toe ( the more serious the piki, the closer to the prop toe). 2) for tihaya birds, i align to the spur 100% of the time. the rationale here is if you align with the spur for piki birds, it would be so awkward since the knife would almost be perpendicular to the left leg (sobrang balagbag) and would result to thebird stepping on his knife plus it wont be so effective. however, for the tihaya rooster, i align to the spur(pasok/inner) since the normal leg stride will be going out. i hope you understand my point of view. Buuuuuuut, we can always align to the spur for all types of legs as long as we shorten the knife for birds with leg defects. kaya lang if you want to maximize the height advantage of your rooster by using the longest possible knife, i use the former principles as stated above....cheers and thanks for your inputs bai.

FIS, jovic

julius aparicio
August 8th, 2008, 02:36 PM
Can anybody post some illustrations for the alignment setting? Thanks......

redcard
August 8th, 2008, 03:01 PM
Great thread,

I have heard that the SK is aligned with the spur since it is only 1" long, But if a 3" long knife was aligned that way the opposing leg would hit the knife thats why the setting for long knife is rotated out left.
I Cant wait for molting season to be over so I can test my tying.

I have also heard that the proper alignment is when the rooster is standing and he unloads his droppings should fall on the knife tip

Yellow Hatch
August 8th, 2008, 06:58 PM
Guys ............

Has anyone tried the "LIBAT / DULING KNIFE SETTING".
The way I understand the knife is efficient since the knife is set to be in the
the cock slapping motion.

Can anyone share there experience using the knife?


Jovic,

Nice input you have shared, i will soon try it out.
Hopefully, I would also gain more new understanding in the art of trying the knife.

Good day and happy cocking ............!

Domingo
August 8th, 2008, 07:19 PM
Guys ............

Has anyone tried the "LIBAT / DULING KNIFE SETTING".
The way I understand the knife is efficient since the knife is set to be in the
the cock slapping motion.

Can anyone share there experience using the knife?


Jovic,

Nice input you have shared, i will soon try it out.
Hopefully, I would also gain more new understanding in the art of trying the knife.

Good day and happy cocking ............!


posted by dondongaff

http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/e...t=DSCN1742.jpg
http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/e...t=DSCN1748.jpg
http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/e...t=DSCN1746.jpg
http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/e...t=DSCN1758.jpg
http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/e...t=DSCN1751.jpg
http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/e...t=DSCN1755.jpg

romy 3388
August 8th, 2008, 07:38 PM
Let Me Move Up To The Upper...

romy 3388
August 8th, 2008, 07:40 PM
Finally We'er Almost There Just A Little More //

redcard
August 9th, 2008, 11:20 AM
upupupupupupupupuup

ARESFORTUN
August 9th, 2008, 11:43 AM
Beautiful questions... I hope we can the answers the soonest with pictures if possible.

More Power!

Yellow Hatch
August 9th, 2008, 08:11 PM
UP Up Up Up .......... hoping to hear from you guys.


Good Day.

rebel
August 11th, 2008, 08:52 AM
Hi Jovic,
Thanks for the clarification. I would normally see most gaffers in Manila aligned their setting inward (pasok). In a stag derby, it would be better to use shorter and thinner knives but on the contrary more gaffers in Manila still uses long and wide knives in a stag derby. Why is that?

Libat or duling has been famous way back during the time of the Pawarat group. I do not know if most gaffers still uses it today. I do not see clearly the libat setting based on pictures shown here. It would be best to try all settings in some tupada, hackfights and rejects so that you will evaluate the effects but I think it would be better to try it on good birds esp on derbies so you will get a good evaluation of your setting. IMHO

Mana Mana
August 11th, 2008, 03:03 PM
Hi Jovic,
Thanks for the clarification. I would normally see most gaffers in Manila aligned their setting inward (pasok). In a stag derby, it would be better to use shorter and thinner knives but on the contrary more gaffers in Manila still uses long and wide knives in a stag derby. Why is that?



sir raul,
I think they are not stags.:D

ARESFORTUN
August 11th, 2008, 09:00 PM
sir raul,
I think they are not stags.:D


Sir mana-mana, when would be your next knife tying class??? i am contemplating on coming over your place to try it out... I hope to learn more about this in preparation for the upcoming fights. P1,500/ person right???

jovic_laraya1
August 11th, 2008, 09:08 PM
[QUOTE=rebel]Hi Jovic,
Thanks for the clarification. I would normally see most gaffers in Manila aligned their setting inward (pasok). In a stag derby, it would be better to use shorter and thinner knives but on the contrary more gaffers in Manila still uses long and wide knives in a stag derby. Why is that?

Rebel, i'm not sure if gaffers in manila use wider knives in stag derbies. however, we personally use a thinner and a bit shorter knives for stags and thinner and longer knives for cocks. most gaffers in manila sets their knives inwards or aligned to the spurs with a little left english(duling). the reason for this is to minimize the knife from hanging(ipit) since the duling/libat setting makes wider wounds thereby making it easier for the knife to be pulled-out. This is also the reason why i personally dont believe in using a wider knife. for me, i prefer a bit thinner knife with average length aligned with the spur with a little left english(libat). the knife can be easier driven to the hilt but with very large gash (wound forms a no.7 or inverted C). this is just my personal experience and is not saying that this is the best setting. keep on cocking.....cheeeers

jovic_laraya1
August 11th, 2008, 09:10 PM
[QUOTE=rebel]Hi Jovic,
Thanks for the clarification. I would normally see most gaffers in Manila aligned their setting inward (pasok). In a stag derby, it would be better to use shorter and thinner knives but on the contrary more gaffers in Manila still uses long and wide knives in a stag derby. Why is that?

Rebel, i'm not sure if gaffers in manila use wider knives in stag derbies. however, we personally use a thinner and a bit shorter knives for stags and thinner and longer knives for cocks. most gaffers in manila sets their knives inwards or aligned to the spurs with a little left english(duling). the reason for this is to minimize the knife from hanging(ipit) since the duling/libat setting makes wider wounds thereby making it easier for the knife to be pulled-out. This is also the reason why i personally dont believe in using a wider knife. for me, i prefer a bit thinner knife with average length aligned with the spur with a little left english(libat). the knife can be easier driven to the hilt but with very large gash (wound forms a no.7 or inverted C). this is just my personal experience and is not saying that this is the best setting. keep on cocking.....cheeeers

rebel
August 13th, 2008, 01:50 PM
Hi Jovic,
Thank you for sharing your personal experience. How do you measure the length of the blade?

jovic_laraya1
August 13th, 2008, 10:43 PM
Hi Jovic,
Thank you for sharing your personal experience. How do you measure the length of the blade?

Bai rebel i measure the blade from the bottom of the prop toe to the left joint (middle of the joint - kalambutan) for cocks with perfect legs while i use shorter knife for stags and cocks with minor left leg defects. hope this helps. cheers

redcard
August 14th, 2008, 07:27 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/mgd001/DSC00001.jpg
sharing my set

redcard
August 15th, 2008, 10:16 AM
up and up and up again

bak_dat_ass_up
August 15th, 2008, 10:41 AM
up ko din...
salamat sa lahat nag nag share...

GMY
August 15th, 2008, 11:47 AM
recap lang po..
paano po ba i asinta ang tare sa manok na
1. piki
2. sakang

ano po ba ang pinagkaiba ng tihaya sa sakang?
salamat...

jomari_pua
August 15th, 2008, 12:07 PM
up ko pa ra.....

redcard
August 19th, 2008, 03:44 AM
keeeping this topic alive

joejonjon
August 19th, 2008, 03:52 AM
keeeping this topic alivenice thread let's keep it...

benjoy
August 19th, 2008, 06:36 AM
Guys, need your comments in this type of setting :)

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/benjoy_photos/DSC_0388.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/benjoy_photos/DSC_0393.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/benjoy_photos/DSC_0392.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/benjoy_photos/DSC_0394.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/benjoy_photos/DSC_0393.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/benjoy_photos/DSC_0376.jpg

Imagine its a normal leg... please share your inputs regarding this setting... thanks to all

redcard
August 19th, 2008, 02:10 PM
Guys, need your comments in this type of setting :)

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/benjoy_photos/DSC_0388.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/benjoy_photos/DSC_0393.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/benjoy_photos/DSC_0392.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/benjoy_photos/DSC_0394.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/benjoy_photos/DSC_0393.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/benjoy_photos/DSC_0376.jpg

Imagine its a normal leg... please share your inputs regarding this setting... thanks to all
BenJoy,

Thats how I would set my knife. thats a really low point knife, I like that.

How has it been working for you in your fights? good luck.

ncyabut
August 19th, 2008, 02:20 PM
Guys, need your comments in this type of setting :)

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/benjoy_photos/DSC_0388.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/benjoy_photos/DSC_0393.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/benjoy_photos/DSC_0392.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/benjoy_photos/DSC_0394.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/benjoy_photos/DSC_0393.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/benjoy_photos/DSC_0376.jpg

Imagine its a normal leg... please share your inputs regarding this setting... thanks to all

with the kind of alignment i have seen and closely observed in the big pits. you need to widen the v shaped gap between the prop toe and the base of the knife. your knife seeting is commonly used in the provinces. it's not as deadly as having the point of the knife aligned with the middle of the spur. IMHO

benjoy
August 20th, 2008, 08:38 AM
with the kind of alignment i have seen and closely observed in the big pits. you need to widen the v shaped gap between the prop toe and the base of the knife. your knife seeting is commonly used in the provinces. it's not as deadly as having the point of the knife aligned with the middle of the spur. IMHO


Thank for the comment sir ncyabut, "point of the knife aligned with the middle of the spur" was my 1st setting when i was a newbie, but most of rooster that i tied using that setting cannot finish off a down opponent. And you are right, i learned this new setting in the province of NEGROS :)



Redcard,

Thanks for the comment, actually i'ved been using this setting for the last 6 years or so and it gives good results, but we cannot win them all :D

AGAIN Thanks for the comments, im still learning :)

gchrissuarez
August 20th, 2008, 02:39 PM
Redcard,

Thanks for the comment, actually i'ved been using this setting for the last 6 years or so and it gives good results, but we cannot win them all :D

AGAIN Thanks for the comments, im still learning :)


Good for you, benjoy. Continue using your setting if it's doing good but always keep an open mind for further improvement.

Good Luck on your future fights.

Regards,
Chris

benjoy
August 20th, 2008, 03:27 PM
Thank you, Chris. I always check this thread out to learn new things and improve my skills.

Let's keep this thread alive!

redcard
August 20th, 2008, 03:52 PM
Thank for the comment sir ncyabut, "point of the knife aligned with the middle of the spur" was my 1st setting when i was a newbie, but most of rooster that i tied using that setting cannot finish off a down opponent. And you are right, i learned this new setting in the province of NEGROS :)



Redcard,

Thanks for the comment, actually i'ved been using this setting for the last 6 years or so and it gives good results, but we cannot win them all :D

AGAIN Thanks for the comments, im still learning :)

Benjoy,

Great!, I feel more confident in my setting now that you mention it. I usually have the point a little higher though, around the height of the spur, my knife is homemade without toe ring so I have a little more flexibility in regards to point height, also easier to screw up if I am not careful though.
Good luck in your fights!

Taga_Cebu
August 20th, 2008, 04:34 PM
learned a lot from this thread already as i myself am an aspiring wanna be gaffer hehehe. Thank you to all the generous contributors in this thread. I have a quick question if i may... do you also consider how a chicken throws his punch, i.e. push punch like the single strokers or pull punch like the shufflers ? If it is a push puncher, do you align the knife a little closer to the prop toe ?... and if it's a shuffler, do you align a little more in ?

benjoy
August 21st, 2008, 05:08 AM
learned a lot from this thread already as i myself am an aspiring wanna be gaffer hehehe. Thank you to all the generous contributors in this thread. I have a quick question if i may... do you also consider how a chicken throws his punch, i.e. push punch like the single strokers or pull punch like the shufflers ? If it is a push puncher, do you align the knife a little closer to the prop toe ?... and if it's a shuffler, do you align a little more in ?


I do the exact opposite bro, little IN for single stroker and little bit closer to prop toe for the shuffler.. The picture that i posted is the setting that i use for a normal leg, but if i tie for a friend i always ask if its a single stroker or a shuffler to have an idea. IMHO

I only speaks for my self thou, im always open for new ideas :)

God Bless to all

redcard
August 25th, 2008, 02:25 PM
does anyone have pics of how to tie a malaysian or bali knife?

Yellow Hatch
August 25th, 2008, 05:09 PM
Hope anyone can post here the typical malaysian knife........?
And how to tie them as well, I have a malaysian knife but I do not know to tie them.

Wish I could post the pix here soon.

jetsweater
August 25th, 2008, 05:12 PM
hello to all cockfighting afficio'z Web hosting now available...24 hours server online...for more info just PM me thankz.. :) peace out!


up...up...up :)

jetsweater
August 25th, 2008, 05:31 PM
hello to all cockfighting afficio'z Web hosting now available...24 hours server online...for more info just PM me thankz.. :) peace out!


up...up...up :)

redcard
August 28th, 2008, 01:49 PM
Great thread lets keep it alive!

GMY
August 29th, 2008, 01:43 PM
nice thread.. thanks for the lessons.

REDACE
August 29th, 2008, 03:13 PM
GOOD DAY TO ALL OUR BROs IN THE TARI COMMUNITY.......

GMY
August 30th, 2008, 02:31 PM
taas ko lang para makita ng mga idol ko at para madagdagan pa ng posts.

Bureko2
August 31st, 2008, 01:21 AM
Thanks everyone, i found this threat and i cant stop reading ... :)

filamforks
September 3rd, 2008, 02:17 AM
with the kind of alignment i have seen and closely observed in the big pits. you need to widen the v shaped gap between the prop toe and the base of the knife. your knife seeting is commonly used in the provinces. it's not as deadly as having the point of the knife aligned with the middle of the spur. IMHO

A good gaffer does not really care about the gap between the base of the blade and the prop toe. What matters most to him is the point of the knife. It has to be at the right spot all the time, relative to the anatomical nature of the leg. MHO.

filamforks

BullRider
September 3rd, 2008, 02:59 AM
Thank for the comment sir ncyabut, "point of the knife aligned with the middle of the spur" was my 1st setting when i was a newbie, but most of rooster that i tied using that setting cannot finish off a down opponent. And you are right, i learned this new setting in the province of NEGROS :)

AGAIN Thanks for the comments, im still learning :)

toto benjoy,

if my knife is medium-pointed, i align my knife in the middle of the spur. however, most knives if not customized, usually comes high-pointed. hence, the levelling of the point in the spur varies. you've got good observations with that alignment as it will not really give high cutting efficiency. JMHO.

BullRider

benjoy
September 4th, 2008, 03:29 AM
toto benjoy,

if my knife is medium-pointed, i align my knife in the middle of the spur. however, most knives if not customized, usually comes high-pointed. hence, the levelling of the point in the spur varies. you've got good observations with that alignment as it will not really give high cutting efficiency. JMHO.

BullRider


Mego BullRider and Sir Filamwork, thanks for sharing your experience. As what ive'd posted then, im still learning and your post in this thread helps a lot of our Kasbong out there, who wants to learn tie their own roosters knife.

Learn! Learn! Learn :)

God bless

artbozon
September 4th, 2008, 03:58 AM
3 checks for Proper Knife Alignment

First check, look at the blade from the bottom view(talampakan) it should coincide that the blade is parallel to the shank(12 o' clock) and the tip will point at the prop toe tendon. The blade and the prop toe should be forming a small letter V. The blade is positioned in between the spur and the prop toe. And not directly below the spur as there will be high probability that your rooster will hit himself.

Now the 2nd check is to make sure that the knife tip does not go over the midline of the body of the rooster, thus preventing probability of self-inflicted injury. Look at the knife from the back of the rooster, letting the feet loose, so when you straighten both feet up, the tip of the knife should be in between the them and is in turn pointed at the a-s-s. Do not go over the a-s-s. There is a high probability that your rooster will hit himself.

If you have the 1st check right and the 2nd check still goes over the a-s-s, you probably are using a longer knife than one that fits your rooster.

The 3rd check will determine if you have the knife point set at low, medium or high point. Look at the knife and shank sideways, if the tip of the knife is lower than the center of the spur, it is low point. If higher than the center of the spur, it is high point. If exactly center of the spur, mid point.

Also regarding the 3rd check, if one sets the knife at high point, you are giving away a little reach advantage.

Hope this helps you in tying your knives. Goog Luck on all your fights.

Chris Suarez




Maganda ito pare, gusto kong matutunan, pwede ba pare na ipaliwanag mo ito sa tagalog na may kasamang drawing para matutunan namin ng mabilis,
mahirap ipaliwanag pero diko masyadong maintindihan dahil sa wala akong karanasan at ang mga parte ng manok na sinasaad dito,,una napo ang aking pasasalamat at para narin po sa kabutihan ng marami pa na walang alam sa pagtatari.

cocker123
September 4th, 2008, 10:39 AM
This is an excellent topic... I hope I can tie the knife someday.. I'd like to clarify the variety of settings here.. if the base of the knife is away from the prop toe.. where do we set the point of the knife? in the but hole, in the leg or in the spur? I hope somebody can answer my damn Q.

bong@saudia
September 4th, 2008, 03:14 PM
3 checks for Proper Knife Alignment

First check, look at the blade from the bottom view(talampakan) it should coincide that the blade is parallel to the shank(12 o' clock) and the tip will point at the prop toe tendon. The blade and the prop toe should be forming a small letter V. The blade is positioned in between the spur and the prop toe. And not directly below the spur as there will be high probability that your rooster will hit himself.

Now the 2nd check is to make sure that the knife tip does not go over the midline of the body of the rooster, thus preventing probability of self-inflicted injury. Look at the knife from the back of the rooster, letting the feet loose, so when you straighten both feet up, the tip of the knife should be in between the them and is in turn pointed at the a-s-s. Do not go over the a-s-s. There is a high probability that your rooster will hit himself.

If you have the 1st check right and the 2nd check still goes over the a-s-s, you probably are using a longer knife than one that fits your rooster.

The 3rd check will determine if you have the knife point set at low, medium or high point. Look at the knife and shank sideways, if the tip of the knife is lower than the center of the spur, it is low point. If higher than the center of the spur, it is high point. If exactly center of the spur, mid point.

Also regarding the 3rd check, if one sets the knife at high point, you are giving away a little reach advantage.

Hope this helps you in tying your knives. Goog Luck on all your fights.

Chris Suarez
sir chris can you post a picture of this kind of allignment? for my actual reference.... tnx a lot god bless...

GMY
September 4th, 2008, 06:45 PM
good day to all cockers and gaffers...

Alex Aguila
September 9th, 2008, 11:00 PM
Up Kolang Para Mapansin Ng Mga Master:) :) :)

dondongaff
September 9th, 2008, 11:08 PM
up up up lang para

joejonjon
September 10th, 2008, 02:20 AM
magandang araw cockmate's

gchrissuarez
January 3rd, 2009, 01:54 PM
Happy New Year to all!

And Good luck on the upcoming fights for the New Year.

If you will be in Cebu for the Sinulog derby or festival, just pm or text me so we can have some chicken talk.

Best regards,
Chris

leytekid
February 23rd, 2009, 12:12 AM
Just would like to subscribe to this thread. There's a lot of useful information on this topic regarding proper knife alignment. Although I don't know how to do it, perhaps I could suggest to my gaffer what's the most appropriate knife alignment given the circumstances..

Maning
February 23rd, 2009, 12:48 AM
This is one of the other ways i check the alignment since i started tying the fork knife in the late 70's..;)

Hold the cock/stag face forward you...Draw his left leg forward with your right hand..In my BELIEF if the blade or its point follows the direction of the natural spur i'm pretty sure i'm on the right track...There are several other ways to check alignment but for me this is the easiest and no doubt the best method..;)

ncyabut
February 23rd, 2009, 07:33 AM
agree... right smack in the middle of the spur. its the natural weapon of the rooster anyway.

slwnstdy
February 23rd, 2009, 07:56 AM
Guys, need your comments in this type of setting :)

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/benjoy_photos/DSC_0388.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/benjoy_photos/DSC_0393.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/benjoy_photos/DSC_0392.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/benjoy_photos/DSC_0394.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/benjoy_photos/DSC_0393.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/benjoy_photos/DSC_0376.jpg

Imagine its a normal leg... please share your inputs regarding this setting... thanks to all
Hello Benjoy, I hope this post finds you well...I am not a professional, just an enthusiast like yourself. From my own experience, I would like to comment on a few things other than the alignment itself. I think that comes naturally if you get the SAPIN (cottton tape base) right.

1. I think it is slightly low point, like the others. I would put a bit more cotton tape on he lower base, or decrease the folds on the upper tape base.

2. It needs to be a little bit more inwards. This can be corrected if you look at the placement of your garol (fork) - it is not centered, if you move it to the right by a couple of millimeters (parallel with the blade), it will sit in the middle of your unan (the round pillow where the right side fork rests). that gives you more distance between prop toe and knife base, plus it makes the final alignment of the point closer tothe spur (pasok).

3. I would suggest a thinner type of string. The thicker your string the more likely it is going to dislodge the garol from original position, especially as you tie it under the top part (tenga or ears). Also note that it is touching the spur, I would try as much as possible stay clear of the spur as the string adds unnecessary stress to it or may make it uncomfortable. With the string as well, try to get as much as possible coverage from top to bottom, not just in the middle (look at the front of your sapin, most of the string is in the middle, even the ones that wrap fully on top or fully below the spur line.

all very minor points, I think you are already a very good gaffer as it is. and whatever you read here, in the end it is your personal experience that counts. can't argue agains a winning record.

Cheers - slw

marcusrn
February 23rd, 2009, 08:39 AM
why are there 2 paunan ? see 2nd and 5th pictures.

Super_Bayong
February 23rd, 2009, 08:53 AM
I like " LIBAT" setting:)

jovic_laraya1
February 23rd, 2009, 11:14 AM
[QUOTE=Super_Bayong]I like " LIBAT" setting:)[/QUOTE
i also use the libat or semi libat settings........hehehe...i love to see the damage they inflict.....

Super_Bayong
February 23rd, 2009, 11:45 AM
[QUOTE=Super_Bayong]I like " LIBAT" setting:)[/QUOTE
i also use the libat or semi libat settings........hehehe...i love to see the damage they inflict.....

yeah! really damaging:)

Super_Bayong
February 24th, 2009, 10:42 AM
here I'm pitting my brownred with a twisted (duling)knife


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmKQ9NfEwDs

goodybaldoquin
February 24th, 2009, 01:23 PM
knife tying praktis lang ,,

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jM3LDN7lDP0

goodybaldoquin
February 24th, 2009, 01:32 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAeZ55VQklo&feature=channel_page

goodybaldoquin
February 24th, 2009, 01:33 PM
actual fight npo yung ikalawa,,my tari allignment..pwede nang pang fastest kill...

profits
February 24th, 2009, 03:24 PM
here I'm pitting my brownred with a twisted (duling)knife


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmKQ9NfEwDs

Sir sa sabungan ba nang pasay yan?
Congrats!!!