Dark Legged Fowls are BACK???

[breed]

These days, more often than not, you'll see dark legged fowls winning again. Unlike in the past, they were brought down by the mere emergence of the light colored fowls e.g sweaters. But now, these dark warriors are back in business with a different fighting style. Breeders was able to make them breakhigh and infuse an "angat sarado" style. Will they steal the limelight from the light fowls 2 years from now?

[Edwin Kubojiri]

I have stated my opinion on this on another board. Every fighting style has a counter style that can beat it. In the case of the "Sweaters" their all around fighting ability and speed has made them very popular not only in the Philippines, but where ever the LK is used in recent years.

Are the "Sweaters" a new breed? No. Sweaters have been around for decades. So why are they doing so well now? Well, their fighting style is a great "counter" style to the fowl that were popular before them. As with ALL types of fowl and the fads they cause, a counter style will arise that will take over the dominace of the "Sweater" type fowl...eventually.

Dark legged POWER fowl are just one of the possibilites that can do this. In the past aggressive fowl were not favored for LK fighting because their lack of defense and fearlessness put them in harms way. Even if they were known for their machinegun like shuffles, these dark legged "Hatch" type fowl were NOT very accurate cutters, another bad point for the LK. Just like the Sweaters were developed to overcome their short comings, many breeders have been able to breed in cutting ability, smarts, and the agnat sarado fighting style into their Hatch bloodlines thus making them a LOT more effective in the LK. When coupled with the already present shuffling ability and POWER, these traits have made the dark legged fowl very effective against the Sweaters.

I feel there will be more and more GL Hatch type fowl being fought in the LK in the near future. Another type of fowl I feel will be getting more popular are Oriental crosses (Asil Grades). I have always loved Oriental grades for the LK, even before they became the fad they are today. I feel that they are going to play a BIG part in the future of Long Knife competition. I have made this prediction before. I will go one step further and say that a combination of "Hatch" type fowl bred to Oriental fowl will play a commanding part in the face of the sport. They are one of my own personal favorite crosses and have proven themselves VERY effective against the current type of battlecock being fought in the LK today. Attached is a picture of one of my 1/2 Red Fox McLean Hatch 1/2 Ytuarte Black Asil grade Bullstags. Even at 1/2 Asil these birds possess the fighting ability to take out "American" type battlefowl.

[maaococker]

My father once got the blue face hatch from the late BABY ARANETA of Negros.Baby Araneta got the blueface from his cousin Nene Araneta and crossed it to BOSTON roundhead and the daughters breed back to the father.My father breed the blue face x rh to hulsey hatch.The offsprings came blue and green legged and white legged pop up sometimes.But the dark legged are awesome fighters and deadgame.They are smart and hardhitters.
My father inbreed and line breed them for years and got good results.But with the arrival of Bruce Barnett kelso and gerry ellard fowls from my uncle in the States he concentrated on his new stocks and transfered the blueface to his friends place.Unfortunately,his friend did not took care the fowls properly and he lost them all to the desease.
In my observation dark legged fowls can compete with light legged fowls in terms of power and gameness and with the infusion of rh they will become smart.

[maaococker]

EDWIN,

Hello,We also have KELSO X Asil crosses with the same look of your fowl.Long legs,short tail,tight feathers.They are not good looking fowls,but they are very good fighters.Strong and accurate cutters.

Our problem is, they gain too much weight after moulting and we cannot fight them in the derby.How can we maintain thier weight? They are only good for the hackfight when they grow older.

[bustay2000]

it doesn't matter what is the color of legs, for me selection of best of d best cock. good quality,handling,conditioning can do winning.my experience i had 1 cock a native (bisaya) from my brother n he buy in the supermarket in kilo for his b-day. before b-day he spar the cock n he notice that the cock is clever, angat sarado style, and asil grade throwing of blows (single), and he even cut n lastly we both like the scales good for tari...i keep the cock for 4 months then suddenly my brother decided to fight(hack) i condition it for 2 weeks. the cock won w/out scrath. it's great even the quality of the cock is poor......yfis

[Edwin Kubojiri]

Your problem with weight in your Asil grades is a common one. Alot of people who raise Asil grades have written me asking me what they can do about this.

The problem is genetic. The Hybrid Vigor encountered when breeding Asil crosses is very strong, as orientals are very different to "American" type gamefowl. The more different the fowl, the higher the Hybrid Vigor.

I haven't run into this problem myself. After thinking about it, I think I know why. The Asil families I have are very inbred and as a result, they are small. By small I mean the heaviest pure Asil cocks I get are around 5.8lbs at 2 years of age. I have always favored smaller fowl and the American breeds I cross my Asils to are also small. As a result my battlefowl average between 4.8 and 5.2. I haven't had shakes here for a long time.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

[PandP]

Nene Abello and many other fine breeders from Bacolod have been fighting Green/Blue legged stags/cocks succesfully for years.

[swallow]

Most of the dark-legged fowls you see winning are just skin deep. believe me most of them carry the light-legged color blood in 50% or more. Anyway, I love the news, since 80% of my fowls are dark-legged... :)

[maaococker]

Edwin,


Thanks for the insights:)

[boye]

I will have the answer to all my doubts on Sept. 2004 when it is stag derbies again in Bacolod City, where-in the offsprings of our dark legged fowls (December born = the Brown Red and the Lieper Hatch) will compete FOR THE FIRST TIME against the white and the yellow legged Red fowlS and the Greys of the NSI and the GFBAN members.


Breed right, fight hard.

[Cedar Creek]

For some of us, the green leg fowl have been our best and probably will continue.

I personally, as most of you know, prefer the Leipers for all weapons. The Tar Babies are my next favorite.

We have had a lot of success with the yellow legs and the white legs, but I still prefer to have some Hatch blood in the battlefowl.

Maybe I am just old-fashion.

Good Luck To All This Season.

Tom

[Eboy Martin]

I personally admired the dark legged fowls of today. These chickens were given some figthing style modification to be able to compete with the light fowls of today.

Give them sometime, they will rule every ring.

[blackhatch]

gameness/air dominance/counter puncher/quickness/intelligence/and multiple kick blows

these are the qualities i want to have to my cocks

i've seen these qualities on some cocks like sweaters/hatches/greys.

[Surepal]

As for me mostly all of my light legged battle fowl have a bit of the dark legged blood in them. you just can tell by looking at em.

[Abet lucido]

:rolleyes: There dark legged fowls that are very good and light legged fowls just about as good as it can get. The thing right right now is just the sweaters are the toast of the moment. It is the FAD right now. For how long will it last? Siguro, as long as it win in the bigtime. Malaki yung influence ng success ng mga breeders ng sweaters like Sonny Lagon.

[Bty Hunter]

Like what a long time breedeer/cocker told me, color has nothing to do with it. Siguro its more on the selection..as the saying goes..theres always a bad apple in any bunch. Its adaptation too.. if you're a bonafide breeder fond of dark fowls and you're well aware of the strength and weakness of a certain strain of fowl dominating the circuit. THen you would naturally want to breed fowls focusing on how to undermine the strength and exploit the weak points of your fowls potential opponents. I think as with business..greater glory and success comes to those who endeavor to originate and pioneer , compared to the mediocre results that comes to those who simply go with the "me too" mentality..Just a thought:hippie:

[victor]

Tom,
I agree with you with dark legged fowls. Especially good Leipers!
For the first time in my life Ive seen hatches that have ability like no others business and it's Leipers. I got them from Bobby Eary. They easily out fight the best Sweaters I've seen. Bobby and Mike Lanier went 19-1 fighting them in Sunset 12 cocks and the World Championships in Mid America. The only fowls that lost were the light colored ones he put in.
I will try them in LK in the P.I. Hopefully they'll do as good as my Yellow or white legged fowls that I usually fight here.
What do you usually fight when you bring over fowls in Araneta, Tom? Have you fought them Leipers? I'm curious if they still do better in LK than light fowls.

Best,
Victor Sierra
Super SS

[redwings]

As an opinion, I think that the dark fowls never left. In one way or the other many people only masked their green legged phenotypes but still their blood are much involved into the process of porducing the dominant fighting cocks of today. It just that people long ago have a predisposed idea that all dark fowls fight on the heavy of grounded side. Thats why I think most breeders breed nowadays faster, smarter and aerial dark fowls for them to have a slight advantage due to the predispostion of people to the fighting style of the DARK Fowls.

Another opinion, haven't you noticed that in every physical human sport there seems to be a man from an African or Black that dominates it. Golf, Basketball, Baseball, and many more. Maybe they also applies to gamefowls. Anyway, Dark Fowls have already been one of the foundation lines of our sport(e.g. HATCHES).

[Cedar Creek]

Victor,

If you will look back at our past performances at Araneta both during our tenure with Governor Ynares and before when we fought on our own, you will see a large percentage of victories with the Leipers.

Watch James Chiongbian when he sets down an occaisional green legged cock(red & black) and remember where he acquired those. With his ability to obtain most any fowl available, why would he ask for the Leipers?

As I told you in our previous conversations, I prefer the Leipers because of their intelligence, cutting ability, and gameness. They also cross extremely well with the other families we are breeding.

Best of luck this season. Jeff & I hope to soon return to the PI.

Regards,

Tom

[tallpaulg]

I must agree with the guys that say its ALMOST all in the cull. I bought a native PI bird from a lady that had no rice. I paid the princely sum of 130 PHP, less than $3. My father in law (Tino,feeder/handler/owner) wanted to eat it rather than feed it.

That little white bird (9 months old) slipped its leash and promptly killed a full grown battle cock naked heel. I decided to keep it and the next thing I know Tino fights the bird at 13 months against a full grown cock that was wearing a wing tag from Alabama. It took that little bird less than 13 seconds to dispatch his opponent.

Against Tino's advice I am breeding him to a Claret hen I imported from the USA. I told him we would either learn something or have a lot of chicken dinners.

[JAPSIL]

Hi TOM!
I remember those green legged fowls fought by Mr. Chiongbian in 2 or 3 consecutive World Slasher Derby. They break well and cut accurately and win easily. These are rare occassion for him using those nice green legged fowl. Where they acquired from Cedar Creek? How I wish to have them in my broodyard.

[Eboy Martin]

While watching a SULTADA stag derby episode, I noticed that dark legged usually finishes a fight with a high note! I never saw them lose without giving their opponent a hell of a fight. These chickens, I believe, has the highest percentage of a come from behind win because of their gameness and their ground fighting skill.

A good example is a Perry Hatch. They fight like a light fowl, with their up and down fighting ability, but they belong in the hatch family. Their cutting ability is tremendous, nice body, dead game and good stationed chickens.

The Mclean's, they were modified. Possesing a good "spring" to win in the first buckle followed by their signature ground fighting skill.

[breed]

Now, Im sure they are back!!!

[Cedar Creek]

Hey Breed,

I don't think they ever left. So many cockers jumped on the "Sweater" band wagon, it just appeared the dark legged fowl were not present. They are just outnumbered.

We are as guilty as anyone, because of the demand for the yellow legged cocks, we bred heavily to the Sweaters. The Sweater fowl we acquired from Carol 6 - 7 years ago continues to win many mains in Mexico as they did for him. Jeff and I fought an eight cock derby in April 2002 at Sunset and scored a combined 13 wins & 3 losses, winning solo champion using all Sweater cocks.

This past January, we fought a 5 cock preliminary derby at Sunset and used all straight Leipers and won 5 straight without any serious wounds.

It is a matter of personal preference. There are good and bad in all bloodlines.

Thanks,

Tom

[Eboy Martin]

Here comes the dark legged, so long light fowls!

[cholo a. franco]

yes, i would like to see more dark legged red fowls fielded in the
big stag derbies ! if they whip the sweaters and the other light
fowls especially at the bakbakan national stag derby, boy,
watch out dark legged red breeders and lovers, you might run
out of breeding stocks !!!

[ligas_paka2006]

yes, i think there coming back with a vengence...;)

[nicontrina]

High Action Hatch of Nene Abello is among the best emerging dark legged fowls.

[FirstBlood]

In my own opinion, cocks now are almost the same except with the pure ones. With the emergence of crossbreeding green/blue legs come out as a throwback from a white-legged family or vice versa.

Through the years white-legged fought with the dark-legged toe-to-toe no one can't really tell who'll dominate, until the dominance of Lemons and Sweaters.

One good thing though is that this gives everyone a chance to revolutionize the sport and show a fowl that could beat the trend set by sweaters.

Its good to hear that Lieper hatches are dominating recently. But it would be even more amazing if an entirely new-colored fowl will dominate the red-colored ones!

Just my two centavos...:hippie:

[sam007]

:)


______________________________________
Success is not a destination it is a long….journey!!

[sam007]

:)


______________________________________
Success is not a destination it is a long….journey!!

[sam007]

:)


______________________________________
Success is not a destination it is a long….journey!!

[808cocks]

Yes i think they are coming back in the islands you will see mostly blacks and hatches especially blacks from mel simms

[LARGADOR_T]

:)

[808cocks]

any one know the farm of mr. mel simm or if there is a web site or email or number, i want to get some blacks from the man?

[grey/dom]

in my own opinion...lemons n zambo white dominates..but not the sweaters...they dominate in the market..coz they are beautiful n expensive...but not in the pit..not in the US...they are always present in WSC..but i dont think in CANDELARIA...i think only few fights them in candelaria...

my own kurokuro...

[zimefarm]

EDWIN,

Hello,We also have KELSO X Asil crosses with the same look of your fowl.Long legs,short tail,tight feathers.They are not good looking fowls,but they are very good fighters.Strong and accurate cutters.

Our problem is, they gain too much weight after moulting and we cannot fight them in the derby.How can we maintain thier weight? They are only good for the hackfight when they grow older.

Sir, Try to infuse 1/8 of Asil so that you will get your desired weight. I've also infuse my kelso and Blueface with 1//8 of Bobby boles. All the results wieght only 2.2kg to 2.4kg.

Regards.

[gamay 2]

one of the best dark legged broodcock in my farm


http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j239/lstambal/P1010598MA16068373-0031.jpg


this is still when he was a stag


http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j239/lstambal/P1010261.jpg

[zimefarm]

one of the best dark legged broodcock in my farm


http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j239/lstambal/P1010598MA16068373-0031.jpg


this is still when he was a stag


http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j239/lstambal/P1010261.jpg


NICE FOWL SIR.

[gamay 2]

zimefarm

thanks !!!

[zimefarm]

one of the best dark legged broodcock in my farm


http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j239/lstambal/P1010598MA16068373-0031.jpg


this is still when he was a stag


http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j239/lstambal/P1010261.jpg

Sir, May i know the bloodlines of this particular Broodcock? I really love the lemon feather with Dark legs fowl.

thanks.

[kogmohon]

dark fowls never left...they were just ignored while sweaters basked in glory...dark fowl try to reinvent themselves,some are masked and other wore yellow or white legs & even greys. don't be fooled...they are here to stay and ready to ruuuuummmmbbbbooooool!!!

[jovic_laraya1]

dark fowls never left...they were just ignored while sweaters basked in glory...dark fowl try to reinvent themselves,some are masked and other wore yellow or white legs & even greys. don't be fooled...they are here to stay and ready to ruuuuummmmbbbbooooool!!!

I could'nt agree more

[zimefarm]

dark fowls never left...they were just ignored while sweaters basked in glory...dark fowl try to reinvent themselves,some are masked and other wore yellow or white legs & even greys. don't be fooled...they are here to stay and ready to ruuuuummmmbbbbooooool!!!

You're definitely right sir kogmohon. They only modify them.



Regards.

[reslingblade]

agreee,,,,, with kog dark it wont paed away always in other blod.

[1stKnight]

HI to all fellow-cockers! 15 yrs ago I had a pure SID TAYLOR hen courteousy of a good friend. a year after that another friend of mine gave me a PURE LACY ROUNDHEAD COCK (WINERED WHITE FEET) 4x winner. I had no space that time so I brought them to my late-uncle's place so we could breed them. The offsprings turned out to be dirty white legs and dirty yellow legs with dirty red feathers (BLACK SPOTS). The result of that breeding was a success! It gave me 4-8 wins derby/hackfights. Too bad, my uncle past away and his wife sold everything and I was too late too buy some. I was not able to maintain their parents as well as their offsprings. JUST MY SHARE OF HISTORY... THANKS AND GOD BLESS!!!

[rkysat]

I agree with you all !!! I am a Hatch man myself !!!
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f333/rkysat/RkysatHatchCock2.jpg

[rkysat]

This one is a GL Hatch.....

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f333/rkysat/GLhatch.jpg

[gamay 2]

longleaf black

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j239/lstambal/DSC00646.jpg


http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j239/lstambal/DSC00625.jpg

[expressdelivery]

ganda naman ng black na yan pre
pogi

[tonio]

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/sabong_tonio/ph-1.jpg
Blueface/Mclean

[tonio]

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/sabong_tonio/bluesil.jpg

2x winner Blue-Leiper/asil

[tonio]

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/sabong_tonio/DSC_1996.jpg

1x winner Makati Col...Sparrow Hatch

[renac001]

Ya that is true black is back in town again,

[Tigerfish]

Black Cuban

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h232/kingfisher1826/BlackCuban.jpg

[Tigerfish]

Black Cuban Gray
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h232/kingfisher1826/BlackCubanGray.jpg

[LMIGHTYWWW]

http://s148.photobucket.com/albums/s29/Lmightywww/th_DSC00010_Small.jpg

[LMIGHTYWWW]

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s29/Lmightywww/DSC00006_Small.jpg?t=1173370031

[cocker123]

Black is back! Tonio, do you want to sell that Green leg rooster?

[tonio]

Black is back! Tonio, do you want to sell that Green leg rooster?

Sure..he lost some toes after the win..this is him now

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/sabong_tonio/mclean2.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/sabong_tonio/balda.jpg

if you are still interested email me at tonio_romulo@yahopo.com

[ExeL]

These days, more often than not, you'll see dark legged fowls winning again. Unlike in the past, they were brought down by the mere emergence of the light colored fowls e.g sweaters. But now, these dark warriors are back in business with a different fighting style. Breeders was able to make them breakhigh and infuse an "angat sarado" style. Will they steal the limelight from the light fowls 2 years from now?

they were never gone...

dark fowls have always been around and will continue to do so...and whites...and the doms...the hennies...the lot


the biggies used the light fowls and gained mileage of exposure...

[gamay 2]

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j239/lstambal/DSC00656.jpg

[cocker123]

Sure..he lost some toes after the win..this is him now

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/sabong_tonio/mclean2.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/sabong_tonio/balda.jpg

if you are still interested email me at tonio_romulo@yahopo.com

You're showing the right foot Tonio..that means he is a deado? lol! if he's alive he is still able to produce?

[daredevil]

HELLO GUYS, THIS IS OUR OWN BREED CALLED DAREDEVIL.VERY FAST,FAST SCORING,POWERFUL AND AGGRESIVE. THANKS DAREDEVIL http://www.daredevilgamefarm.com/Our...aredevil8.html

[jason_tari]

heto nman po yung sa backyard nmin my version of dark legged fowl http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t99/jasonnphoto9675_photos/DSC01061.jpg

[jason_tari]

at yung pong full brother niahttp://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t99/jasonnphoto9675_photos/DSC01058.jpg

[jason_tari]

tyson line sa family nla tigas mukha nito mga sir.http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t99/jasonnphoto9675_photos/DSC01043.jpgone time n po sa tupada nung 11mos .cia

[jason_tari]

Exel Ganda Nug Gavillan Mo Palit N Lang Tyo Joke Ganda Ng Farm Mo Astig Sir .

[jason_tari]

MY HATCH GREY NEVER BEEN TEST.HOPEFULLY WINhttp://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t99/jasonnphoto9675_photos/DSC01046.jpg

[tonio]

You're showing the right foot Tonio..that means he is a deado? lol! if he's alive he is still able to produce?


No he is alive and well that picture of him walking was taken last week..he can still be bred

[1stKnight]

this is my BLUEFACE winner at BACOLOR PAMPANGA

[1stKnight]

wala yta? hehehehe

[1stKnight]

try ulit

[1stKnight]

naku.. ayaw mag upload ng photos ko

[reslingblade]

dark legg.ed fowls sure is back hatches and black

[rem_brothers]

MAGANDANG GABI MGA IGAN!!!!!!!

( GIMORE PA RIN PO SA AKIN )

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s3/rem_brothers/IMG_1132.jpg

[1stKnight]

pano ba upload dito ng PICS? THANKS IN ADVANCE! you can check out DARK LEGS FOWLS on my MEMBERS GALLERY... GOD BLESS!

[redowl115]

Dark legged will not surely be gone coz they were called foundation blood....

[1stKnight]

my BLUEFACE BROODCOCK w/c won last feb at BACOLOR PAMPANGA. now a full pledged broodcock
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u95/1stknight_photo/BLUEFACE-WINNER.jpg

[1stKnight]

one of the offsrings of my BLUEFACE.... BLUEFACE/GILMORE HATCH
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u95/1stknight_photo/BLUEFACE-GILMORE.jpg

[1stKnight]

MCLEAN HATCH DERBY WINNER last feb also
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u95/1stknight_photo/MCLEANHATCH.jpg

[LARGADOR_T]

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t20/LARGADOR_T/1-3r7.jpg

my black 3 time derby winner

[LARGADOR_T]

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t20/LARGADOR_T/1-3r27.jpg

blue leg stag

[CrookedToe]

I'm glad just aquired some Mclean blood plan to cross with kelso hens.

[1stKnight]

good choice sir CROOKEDTOE

[1stKnight]

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u95/1stknight_photo/Silver_g.jpg
SILVERGREY RED FOX stag... green legs

[1stKnight]

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u95/1stknight_photo/Silver_g.jpg
eto pala

[1stKnight]

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u95/1stknight_photo/silvergrey-pullets.jpg
SILVER GREY PULLETS

[agdadamo]

This is my BrownRed... He is not blind...

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q203/agdadamo/brownred1.jpg

:)

[tonio]

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/sabong_tonio/DSCN9372.jpg

[reslingblade]

dark legged is the foundation of my battle cross.

[redowl115]

Victor,
Do you stil have those magnum hatches from OW lanier...

[1stKnight]

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u95/1stknight_photo/Mclean_w.jpg
Mclean hatch 1x derby winner bullstag

[edmerc]

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/sabong_tonio/DSCN9372.jpg


Beautiful Grey Fowl Sir Tonio! Is he a Bobby Joe Manziel Grey by any chance?

[renac001]

Yes.I agree.its an hype. Super fowl.:D

[zimefarm]

Good day cockmates.

This is my Dark legged Broodcock. Magnum Hatch from Richard Lanier.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r45/zimefarm/DSCN0055.jpg

Another Dark legged Hen. Blueface hatch

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r45/zimefarm/DSCN0060.jpg

Regards to All.

[1stKnight]

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u95/1stknight_photo/silvergrey-2.jpg
SILVERGREY STAG GREEN LEGS
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u95/1stknight_photo/blueface-3.jpg
offsprings of my BUEFACE winner crossed to our GILMORE(Bruce Barnnet)Hens. There are 30 of them for now and still increasing!

[tonio]

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/sabong_tonio/peanut.jpg

Pure Mclean ..NCA winner

[tonio]

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/sabong_tonio/DSC_5345.jpg

3/4Blueface 1/4Grey..winner calaca batangas

[gbstrip]

ang ganda sir....

[LARGADOR_T]

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t20/LARGADOR_T/Picture016.jpg:)

[1stKnight]

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u95/1stknight_photo/GilmoreBullstag.jpg
PURE GILMORE HATCH....bruce barnnet