How can you see the hitting during a fight?

[EAA Indians]

I am amazed at some of the cockers watching the cockfight on how they could tell which cock got hit bad or which hits are just slashes in the air. The hitting is at blazing speed and I have a problem picking up the slashing action. Could you guys give me some advice on how to develop the eye during the cockfight?

[bastaikaw]

first this is just my personal opinion and as one says there are thousand ways to do it in cockfighting.in knife fighting we should focus our attention on the rooster`s left leg where a knife is tied.that is to say you bring yourself in the position where you`re on the left side of your cock to have the best view.that is when the cock stretches that left leg and tries to reach the target for a possible score.don`t let those cracking sounds by shuffling divert your attention in evaluating the landing of left leg on target.just take your time viewing and obeserving the fluid fast motion of left leg.the hitting will tell you that if two cocks come in said hitting range they could fire potent lick to each other.watch the left leg where it lands on another`s body.does it land on fron chest,or right side of opponent`s body(under right wing) or right hips?in actual fighting when one hits the fine feathers float in the air.the one being hit makes the initial wobbling gait.sort of balancing the body in the midst of engaging another attack.sort of bracing.that initial hesitating move tells that effect of a potent internal injury takes place.the eyes are no longer giving optimal focus.so if you want to know which cock hits ,then the one that shows the above signs is the one badly injured.

[Simurgh]

I can only give you a less than 100% assurance that it will happen all the time given the situation.


1. During the first buckle, the one on top ussually hit the one at the bottom.

exception: when the knife on top is not withdrawn almost instantly, the one at the bottom could deliver a response sometimes both chicken dropped dead.

2. When the target cock's body is perpendicular to the attacking cock (i.e , the target cock is facing sideways), the hit is almost 100% fatal.

3. In dragfights, a downed cock is hit again if the blow of the attacking cock results for the the downed cock to react to the blow (i.e. extra motion after a the blow or slight wiggling motion of the downed cock).

4. During simultaneous billhold shuufling close encounters, the one with higher station ussually deliver a deeper cut. or if height at weight are almost equal, the more powerfull one can inflict the fatal blow. (ussualy, aged cock)

5. yung iba obvious, by experience na lang. pag bumagsak ang manok at naparalized, tiyak may tama sa spinal column. pag nagtatakbo, may tama sa mata/ulo. paglumaylay ang ulo, may tama sa leeg, pag pilay may tama sa joints o ugat, paghindi makatayo at pumapalo pag itinayo, bali ang pakpak.


These are the guessing game spectators anticipate and the smart ones usually predicts the inflicted damaged. More on these, I have develop the eye for guessing right who is dying even if most of the crowd sees the other way around, meaning; It doesn't follow that the more active one doing the beating will live longer than the semingly dying downed cock. They call it in our dialect, secreto, or secret fatal wound which you can actually see earlier if your eyes are trained to see fatal hit. You can actually develop it by just continuouos close evaluation in every fight you are watching. And lastly, You should know also the alignment of the knife whether they are set inside or outside, the knife curve effect and a lot lot lots more.


well, it's now your turn to share!

tsirs!

victe

[This message has been edited by victe (edited 01-10-2001).]

[This message has been edited by victe (edited 01-10-2001).]

[Calex]

Victe:

Excuse my ignorance, but I donot understand Philipine. Can you translate the last ones.

Thanks,

------------------
Carlos Alexis Lopez

[This message has been edited by Calex (edited 01-10-2001).]

[Gallos Locos]

Calex, este es el translacion de la carta del victe (en Ingles). Solo para usted. Perdona me si yo no escribe muy bien en español //sabong.com.ph/UbbNonCgi/smilies/smile.gif


5. The others are obvious, solely through experience. If a cock falls and is paralized, his spinal cord has surely been hit. If he runs, then he suffered a blow to the eye or head. If his head dips, then he has a cut in the neck. If he losses the function of a leg, then he's been hit in a joint, or a vein/artery/ligament has been severed. If he can't stand up on his own, but shuffles when he is stood up by the referee, then his wing is broken.

Hope this helps, Salud! //sabong.com.ph/UbbNonCgi/smilies/smile.gif

[Simurgh]

Muchas gracias Gallos Locos, No puedo habla Espanol porque senyor Victe es tonto en lenguaje del conquestador! (joke only) Was that right? hehehe!
Thanks Gallos locos, I was not listening to Braveheart's suggestion to write English before thinking I can be tolerated by transient friends. Now I should have included it in my new years resolution. From now on I'll be spokening dollar all the time!hehehe!
Welcome Calex!!! Hope you always post exclusively friendly post!


Tsirs!

victe

[Calex]

Thanks Gallos Locos & Victe.

I think I will have to start to learn some terms in Phillipine, first because it the language of the capital of our sport and second because this is the best forum about cockfighting I have seen and since I will be around from now on, I better learn some!!

Don't worry about the posts, I will be the same way always. My motto is "give to get", so I know will get the same I give.

Take care,

[Kidd Sentencia]

Sa sabungan, di ba minsan pag naglalaban ka at ang concentration mo ay sa manok mo, pag nagpaluan, sa background mong mga tao, may sisigaw na "nakuskos or pilay-pisanan si ___(pangalan ng kalaban o ng iyo...hehehe)"...lingunin mo yung taong yon, malamang tagapusta. Hindi nakakapagtakang ang mga tagapusta ay na-de-develop ang talent na ito kasi sa lahat yata ng araw ng ginawa ng diyos eh nasa sabungan ito.

obserbasyon at experience ko lang,
Kidd

[Calex]

Kidd, I'm lost again!

Like trying to drink water with the mouth closed!

------------------
Carlos Alexis Lopez

[Kidd Sentencia]

Calex, here's why I post in Pilipino (Tagalog) sometimes.

1. I feel like the things I'm talking about does not apply anywhere else specifically but the Philippines.

2. The intended audiences/readers are for those who knows Philippines and eats "balut."

3. Some sabong stories are better told in Tagalog with the #2 above applies.

4. Two Filipinos exchanging opinions, sometimes strong opinions, would post in Tagalog...you would know the reason there.

So, my advise to you, feel free to ask for translation, but if no one volunteers to translate it, just leave it alone, it does not concern you nor will benefit from it.

my opinions,
Kidd

[EAA Indians]

Calex... we will try to use English most of the time but sometimes there is no direct translation from Tagalog to English. It might not make sense the way it is translated, the only thing is to accept the translation and as you read more, it will all come together at some point. Calex, I too have difficulty when some of the Filipinos translate from Ilocano to Ilongo to Kapangpangan to Visaya to Warray to Pangasinan. By the time I get it, I feel like I have been all over the world. Good luck amigo.

EAA Indians

[emoy]

eaa indians, allow me to narrate to you my personal experience. two of them in fact. first was when i was tagging along with boy diaz to the farm of rudy salud when boy was still conditioning for rudy. i was trying to sound like an expert when in one sparring session, i loudly commented that one was the better sparring chicken. since they were selecting the final line-up for a coming derby, i noticed that boy put an "x" beside the wing band # of that rooster. i asked him why he rejected it and he said medyo pasok ang ulo, trying to get a billhold. i was concentrating too much on the legs that i did not know how boy could have possibly also noticed the direction of the head too at the same time. at another sparring match, again he similarly corrected me by saying that he noticed another cock's tail dropping just before he flew into the opponent. again, in-out niya ang manok na iyon, rejected again. at another time, he asked me if i noticed that his knees elboed out every time he pivoted.
another story. my director, bong, for both tukaan and sultada tv programs is not really a cocker since the start of these shows more than two years ago. last ocotber, while we were covering the stag derbies in davao, bacolod, and araneta and roligon, i was shocked to hear him mutter something like - "patay na ang talisain (the grey's going to die), or "panalo na ang hatch" (the hatch will win) after the first or second buckle only. how could he have known?
i guess the point i would like to drive here is - only through experience, after watching so many fights, will one really know when a rooster gets hit.
but one thing that really is very very consistent in the many "fowl play" segments that we have shown, is that always - always, the rooster that lands in an unbalanced position is the one that got hit.

[EAA Indians]

Mang Emoy.....I really enjoy your style of writing and I am a fan of your shows even though I am a U.S. based "hilaw pa" na cocker (slowly gaining the experience) I try to follow the shows. I will take all the advices on this topic and summarize it then micro print it with my other pertinent notes. This way I can refer to them as my bible of cockfighting. I can use it particulary when I get stranded and often have to wait for a long time between flights. Like Oplod, go through finer thoughts of each topic and time passes by so quickly. Thanks for your input.

Hey Calex, you can see we are trying very hard to translate and to keep you included on our keen interest on this topic. Please say muchos gracias and show us how you really appreciate it.

EAA Indians

[Calex]

EAA Indians, I really apreciate what you're doing for me. I hope with time I will understand most of the terms you use.

Kidd, I got your sentencia. Sorry for my question, I'll avoid your posts to make sure I'll never mess with you or your posts ever again.

If anybody can tell me if there is a glosary with translations I will get there to try to learn more, until I get used, keep helping me. I'll surely apreciate it.



------------------
Carlos Alexis Lopez

[JC]

Calex,

Yup, there is a glossary on this site... Go to the main page, "Magazine" look for the link there...

Cheers!

------------------
Powered by God™

[emoy]

just checked in. first, eaa indians, i'm only 38. maybe you can call boy diaz as "mang boy diaz". i prefer to be considered by the cyberfriends as someone still young enough not to be addressed as "mang emoy". kidding aside, hey, thanx for patronizing our tv programs. i don't know if and when sultada will be allowed to air back. sabi ng mga ptv-4, kapag tumahimik na raw ang jueteng scandal. now i don't know if that means erap's impeachment. what if he's acquited? goodbye sultada.
secondly, i don't mean to incite a war here, but my heart bleeds for bastaikaw. most threads i see, basta ikaw is always there. and lately, a lot are ganging up on him. maybe it's his style of writing. or maybe his know-it-all way of answering (according to the critics) or whatever. but like a true blueface hatch, or like any other gamecock with gameness, basta ikaw is still there, writing out his opinions and comments, doing what he has always been doing. tipong dead game. tuka pa rin ng tuka kahit ginugulpi na ng marami. personally, i don't want to create enemies. and it's hard not to take sides. i once heard my kumpare totoy de la cruz though, quoting a famous american president (lincoln ba?) during one of his seminars. he said: we may disagree on a lot of things, but let us agree to disagree. nuff sed!

[Kidd Sentencia]

pasingit!...Emoy, magka-edad lang pala tayo...pero Kidd pa rin ako...hehehe.

Sa akin eto, We don't have to agree on everything to be friends...but if we can not agree on anything, we better not see each other again.

Sa trabaho ko walang not agree going up...the sh_t flows downward...buti na lang SNCO na ako...hehehe.

Kidd

[charlie]

Excuse me gentlemen and lady. Care to share some more views on this interesting topic. Just thought I'd ask.

What I mean is what do you actually look at or look for while the match is going on?

[This message has been edited by charlie (edited 09-13-2002).]

[daytona eric]

for this topic i think it's the experience that matters. when i was still new in this sport i was really amazed when in the tick of the fight someone will shout "tagas na tagas na" or "sabog na ang tagiliran" or "labas na ang bituka" wow! how can they know that when in fact on my eyes i can't see the difference. well i guessed it's really the experience on how long you've been in the sport.

[banderado84]

bump

[paquito56]

Kidd Sentencia
With all the respect, i disagree with your input, specially that " it does not concern you nor will benefit from it" As an old timer you shall know better. If it doesnt concern or else, then post it in PM..You know my friend, its a matter of respect, consideration and discipline... As an " old timer" you should already know that the forums have rulesto be followed by considerate and disciplined persons. not saying that you are not, but this Forum Chicken talk is to be spoken in English for the benefit of all others around the world, that may understand only English as an universal language. There are other Forums that are to be posted in Visaya, Ilongo , Tagalog or whatever local dialect or language you will perfer.. Is funny to see that a brother made clear very respectfully that he doesnt understand the language and ask for translation and afterwards you keep posting in Tagalog or whatever.. Wow, my friend, i hope that not only you but others will have the consideration and manners and start listening with respect to the inquiry of a brother from another land. Dont get me wrong my friend, i have read your posts in the past and i got to tell you that i have learned so much from you, and is why i ask you to go by the rules of the Forum so i can still benefit from your knowledge as others too around the Globe. You take care,God bless you always and many more wins for you...

[Sundowner]

We are all avid cockers trying to exchange views and knowledge for the betterment of our beloved sport. We should be thankful for the privileges that we are enjoying in our native land. Here in the US it’s now being written in the history book. Calex, whom I presumed is a decedent from Mexico, is trying to comprehend what we are trying to convey on the subject I must admit that I am also one of the culprits on this thread for not adhering to the rules, and not realizing that this is an open forum that can be internationally accessed. In the other hand, Paquito’s assertion is legitimate to some degree, categorically deploring to culminate disagreement is what we are trying to eliminate here. Misinterpretation is not an issue but rather an element of choice in practicing common sense and respect to other's right. For your information and for those willing to learn Tagalog, The California board of Education is implementing Tagalog as part of new subject in High School and it’s also being offered in some colleges. My daughter who is an Assistant Principal in San Ysidro High School has interviewed some Teachers from the Philippines. This is rather unprecedented, because for what I heard during the liberation, it was the American that teaches English in our school in the Philippines and now they have to import Filipino teachers to teach in both Private and Public school here in the US. They finally discovered that Filipino Teachers are the best in the west, he he.
Going back to Ed INDIAN topic, you must have keen eye with experience to determine which rooster is badly hurt. If my opponent’s bird starts to slow down with the tail going down touching the ground, I can tell, it’s only a matter of time that his bird will be counted out. For bro Emoy, I wish I can access your TUKA-AN program but unfortunately, I have a limited access in my TFC. For Kidd, just relate it in Pangalatok, maybe Paquito will understand clearly, he he. And for Mr. Galos Locos, Spanish is not one of my favorite subject. I just beg my teacher by saying, por favor maestro pasarme en la clase para poder continuar mis estudios, otherwise I have to cheat In your exam, he he. Merry Christmas to all and have a Prosperous 2005. Adios amigos..

[paquito56]

Sundowner
Thanks so much for your way of seeing and explaining things.. Your opinion cant be better interpreted and it made me laugh too.. If someday you come to Cebu City, let me know, you are more than welcome to visit me and i will spend sometime teaching you some Spanish if you agree, and then in exchange you will teach me some Tagalog so i can talk with the Kidd hehe.. As i said before i have learned and enjoyed so much Kidd's posts that i dont want miss anything he says.grr what a problem..grrr..You are right maybe in Pangalatok i may understand. Thanks for been so legitimate as to realized that Sabong site isnt only for locals, but is an international site and all Filipinos should be proud of it. And is why the Chicken Talk is an English speaking Forum for the benefit of the international Sabungeros..Going back to the thread, i have the same perception, once a chicken looses balance and his tail starts touching the ground with that wobbling motion, i know that is almost over.. But when i watch on TV the Sex Bomb Girls doing the same wobbling motion, im the one, who becomes deadly..hahaha!! Hope my wife isnt around..lol.. Congratulations on your children's success..God bless............Gracias y hasta la vista.. 1st lesson for you..hehe!!

[boolick]

Pangalatok?! Well, you folks aren't from Pangasinan so you're forgiven. It's Pangalatalk!:lol: Otherwise, you can just say Pangasinan...yup! like the Probinsya!:crazy: Great posts! You folks are right, it does take an experienced eye to see what is happening. Maligayang Paskua!

[CrowsNestFarm]

Hello all, I too would like to ehar more on the watching and understanding of the cockfight, for me i have one cock that i use for all my fights(this is becasue i dont use knives or gaffs) and i know exactly how he fights, he jumps high and hits hard but when the other cock goes for a hit he drops low, is this a good fighting style or would he get his head hit off in a fight using knives or gaffs.He also does alot of peckimg and grabbs the other cock by the head and while doing this throws many kicks right into the opponents face would this be a good strategy if he were in a fight with knives or gaffs, I ask becasue I have just started in the cocking business and have a scheduled fight in three weeks and i want my cock to be in top physical form and i want his strategic moves to be good.Thankyou to whoever helps me out.
Merry Xmas to all.:)

[ilahas]

it will take a little while to get your eyes trained but it will come. everyone, i suppose, did not start out being able to see the lighting speed of the roosters leg , but in time you will. go to the cockfight as often as you can and pay just to watch roosters fight. that's how i was able to acquire a trained eye. but if you really want to see how you rooster uses his legs, take a video and watch it in slow motion. big time cockers select their fowls this way.

[JW1052]

Paquito,

Kidd's posting was made three years ago. I don't believe he's allowed to post here anymore because of his particular style of posting.

[boolick]

JW wouldn't that mean that he has been banned? and if indeed he has been banned, wouldn't that be stated under his handle? what gives? has he been banned from the forum or just asked not to post until a given time?

[GoldenDragon]

train your eyes to watch the feet nothing else... concentrate on the feet specially the left one or where the knife is tied.

just wondering : was the posting of kidd made three years/four years ago ? but there is already an UFAC emblem... how time flies.

Happy new year everyone....

[Sundowner]

Paquito,
Thank you for all the compliments and for the invitation. I will try my very best to visit Cebu in January 2006 maybe before or after the WSD. My best friend Ed Beightol who owns a farm in Barrio Baterria, Bantayan left yesterday for PI. He will be fighting his rooster in small derby in Cebu this year and hopefully he will have lots of rooster for us to fight by year 2006. I’ll be looking forward to met you and Glenn in person, then you can teach me some Spanish. When the camaraderie becomes derisively intense, then we can switch gear to more wobbling motion between Sex Bomb Girls and Pamila-1, and Pamila 2.. Otherwise I will settle for Familia 3, ha ha. If you want to met Ed, here’s his Cel Phone in the Farm. 0927-465-1110. Just mention my name Sonny from San Diego.
For Bryan J, I don’t think the Picking and Grabbing style of your bird is ideal for long knife. I prepare the one that can side steps and always in top when the opponent try to engage, shuffling with no bill hold. Don’t get me wrong…
For Boolick. Puedi bang combination ng Pampanga and Talk , para for short ay Pangalatalk., he he

[lybamba]

nice views,

just wondering why sir emoy was not around anymore....

and also the skul bukul of sir nemmmo.

[LaDy_J]

you'll have highly probable guesses of a hit or not subjectively...
but in sabong ...at least from my humble experience.. hard and fast rules are often blurred...that's part of the thrill i get from the sport..hehe..like.. was it in?first?fatal?..then the opponent gives off a mean shuffle...then my heart beats faster...:D adrenaline rush...;)

[bak_dat_ass_up]

watch a cockfight a thousand times, I bet you will see even the smallest details :D

[reymarie5]

u can say it when u have the experience, specialty if u know how to tie the knife... and of course just open ur eye. hehehe

[bunguton]

thats right guys if you have a derby tape just keep on watching ..hehehe

[bak_dat_ass_up]

i've watched a thousand cockfights from rentas, tupadahan, CD, DVD and TV... by this time i can see even the blink of the roosters :D:D:D

But what i cannot determine is how fatal the hit is... not until the rooster crosses it's leg and the neck is getting shorter.

[kogmohon]

those feet are too fast for my eyes...i see it upon impact and the feathers that dropped...

[ninoy]

Sa bilis ng palo ng paa ng manok ay mahirap mo na talagang makita kung tumatama pa ba o hindi unless if you an eyes whose eyelids shut close and open faster than high speed camera. i assume mo na lang pag pumalo yun mabilis na manok ay yun na ang nakakatama.

[ol-ol-paol]

got some people that are really have a cats eyes that they can tell if that strike did connect...some sentinciadors have good eyes too, they can tell right away whose in the lossing end

[earan]

those single stroking rooster have more fatal hits and easier to see the connecting blows.
those fast shufflers have less fatal hits and its hardly seen due to its lightning speed.
i prefer the first...

[Taga_Cebu]

hitting during the actual fights is a lot easier to see than hitting in sparring... would you all agree ?... that's why you'll have a lot more faith in fighting a multiple winner than those that have not have any wins yet... most of the times you'll also be deceived with those cocks that you bought for a lot of money because during selection in the farm they look so great with the sound of their multiple blows but when the real test come in the pit... they couldn't cut a feather. :D

[apong_ambo]

For those who have camcorders or could borrow one, record your sparring sessions as close to the chickens as possible. 90% of the time the real time fight does not indicate if the chickens punches are actually hitting it's opponent. I've tested this so many times that in slow motion or frame by frame review that the rooster that seem to lose in the sparring session (in real time viewing) is the one actually cutting while the opponent is just flapping it's feathers but not throwing it's feet.

Just my two cents

[expressdelivery]

you first have to know the line
you are fighting

and concentrate only
on left foot
don`t pay too much attention
on right foot

what i am looking for
is a stretched "V"
if the thigh and shank
make an stretched "V"
in front of opponent`s body
he`s online

if i see a normal "V"
meaning the thigh and shank
is not stretching properly
either you got an static shuffler
or a short cutter
hate to see lots of bend
on hock area during hitting
they should stretch
and slam them
to opponent`s body

[ligas_paka2006]

you gotta have a cats eye to see how there feet penetrates

[ironchef]

Observe the "pull", other than that....one can only guess!

[Sureball]

it goes from experience go frequently to the cockfight when the crowd says yun na its a hit

[yajgph]

ok good info, i will start to train my eyes hehehe

[geronimo_46]

those feet are too fast for my eyes...i see it upon impact and the feathers that dropped...

PLAY IT IN SLOW MOTION THEN YOU WILL SEE:D

[alex-g]

if you have normal eyes, you can fairly see the shadow boxer type roosters and the deliberate straight hitter birds that land their feet on their target. And the majority of people are more thrilled to see multiple stroking birds that shadow box or hits the air with that armalite like punches and consider them awesome. While the straight cutters are just ordinary fighters to them, nothing special.

Straigt cutting birds will always shuffle too, if needed in close fighting. As a personal preference, I always consider the deliberate straight cutters the most dangerous. They can always cut deep and finish the job fast and clean.

[greenleggedgrey]

i've watched a thousand cockfights from rentas, tupadahan, CD, DVD and TV... by this time i can see even the blink of the roosters :D:D:D

But what i cannot determine is how fatal the hit is... not until the rooster crosses it's leg and the neck is getting shorter. kili kili and talupisanan those are the most fatal targets.......:D

[GG Crasher]

take a short video of your rooster during sparring then replay in slow motion that's how you can see the real blows of your rooster & you may discover what's more the special fighting characteristic of your warriors, then when you fight your gamebirds in real fight you already knows how they kicks to their opponents.

[1min.shuffle]

i've been an avid enthusiast, not only of the sport,but of raising and conditioning fowls. I could say that I am still a novice at this point because there is still so much to learn out there (most specially in the pit) because of modern ways of both raising and conditioning gamebirds. I have been caring and have been around gamefowls, (on and off because of some personal restraints), for almost 25 years now. Have started at a very early age.

From what I have personally experienced, and through some advises and opinions, the initial subject of my attention during sparring (or actual battle) is how a gamefowl extends his legs in a striking motion and hits his opponent "intentionally", regardless of his stance at that particular moment. I prefer a cock who delivers intentional blows to the body, ....with his head back, feet extended, and sometimes in a suspended manner during half-flight. ln my opinion, almost more than 80% of blows delivered in this manner, leaves the opponent with real damage. Intentional blows are fatal strikes....sometimes it only takes a few buckles, or even one, to end the fight.

It is really difficult to see "effective strikes" during sparring....but just watch those legs extend and see where they land (some fowls hit with the balls of their feet, mind you). Watch the cock's head in motion during a sparring session...try to observe where his focus is....look at his feet placement (the way he positions his legs when he is about to retaliate or counter)...some cocks can be considered also as "flat-footed" (some of you might disagree), but cocks who can keep themselves balanced on their three toes (spread apart proportionally from each other) without the proptoe touching the ground while in an erect stance is a good sign.

Multiple shuffles on the ground is also effective, however, this depends greatly on how accurate he can cut, and how deep.

Anyway, it's just a matter of preference, brought about by exposure to quite a number of sparring sessions/actual pittings. Well, for myself, I look at leg extension. Bottomline for me is, if the cock can't deliver that well extended blow, may it be in multiple strokes or singles, he would have to contend with meeting the opponent head-on and shuffling it out all the way to both their graves.


thanks t all

[Sureball]

always look outthe left leg in a sparrring experience will teach you

[VMT^Carmen]

it's all probability
highest when its ur bird doing the hitting
and you tied the knife with your knife
and the opponent is dead or dying

;)