anybody here knew the method of how to decrease cocks body weight without lossing cocks ability for fighting????Please help me.
anybody here knew the method of how to decrease cocks body weight without lossing cocks ability for fighting????Please help me.
give limited but nutricious foods.... u can also improve its fighting ability... with less weight, it can increase its speed...
In my opinion... do it "gradually" when you try to lose some weight of your fowls...because if you do it abruptly, they tend to lose power and their fighting ability diminishes.
True you may want to lessen the feed by just a little bit or you may want to lessen the protein portion as well by giving them more grains...
Exercise is one method I use to cut some weight down as well...
I put them in a scratch box 4x/week for 5-10 minutes or until they pant... put them in flying pens (5'x7' dimmensions with the roost at 5' high) 4x/week as well and twice a week in running pens (3'x9') for 10 minutes each day...
This way they lose the weight gradually and only lose the fat and not the decrease in muscles. Also try to have a scale around so that you can monitor their weight daily and if they are losing weight too fast you can make proper adjustments...
I also believe that you should weigh your fowls before sparring so that you know at which weight he moves best and can cut at his best. This way when you start conditioning your fowls you can at least have a target of his weight...
I hope this can help you in any way. Best of Luck to you.
Alot of people mix their own feed... By doing this, you can make adjustments that will help with weight control without decreasing the amount of food you give your roosters... For example: If I want a cock to loose weight, I increase pellets and soaked oats while decreasing corn and any grains in my feed mix high in carbohydrates by the same amount.. Do this a little at a time so you don't increase protein too much and/or cause the cock to loose weight too fast... If protein is a concern, then make up the portion with the oats.. The main thing is to keep their nutrition sufficient with good exercise... I would not ever recommend feeding less while making adjustment to feed mix. This can cause rapid weight loss and you will not know if it was the "adjustment" or "less food" that took the weight off.. Try adjusting your mix first...
I will tell you how I was told to do it by Les Melvill Who him And Bobby boles did & do it.
He never explaind to me why to do it this way. He just said it is the best way. I now do it this way & belive it is the best way.
You stop the feed all together & give them nothing for 2 days & take it off fast. If that does not take it off he is to fat to mess with & it will take time.
Put him in a fly-pen with litter & let him scratch & try him another time.
There is a keep out there that says to not feed at all for the first 3 days of a three week keep, to get it off. I have tried it with good results but like 2 days better.
I take it off fast & get them back on the feed right away & start the conditioning process.
Now I will explain to you why I think this is a better way.
If you cut his feed back for 10 days or so, you are going to have a hungry cock for 10 days. This will keep him stressed for 10 days, more than he should be.
A hungry cock will try to point, even if he has feed in him if you keep him hungry. I do not like them to bang their feed cups like they are starving. This will maintain a higher level of stress that does not need to be there. The last 2 feeding, they will bang the feed cups just a bit but too hungry is not good.
Also when you try to point them, they seem hungry befor you even start to cut back on their feed. They will have a good chance of going over a lot faster & loose power fast.
It also puts them right on their feed with out trying to get them on it, with the stress of the keep. Trust me, they will eat when you want them to. They also will not be picky & leave the pellets or whole corn or any thing.
Now, I did not post this to get in another debate. I posted it because it is my way, passed to me by a good friend & the most knolegable cockers I know who was friends with Bobby Boles.
I would rather start out with a cock that is just an ounce or two over weight because it is natural for them to drop an ounce or two going thru the keep. That is the ideal weight to start with. But I have knocked 4 or 5 ounces off in 2 days & left 2 ounces on for a reserve thru the keep & they preformed just as good as the ones that were right to start with.
Try it & tell me if it don't work.
Jim, is this something you do just before the keep and/or do you use this method with cocks on the yard not scheduled to be shown? I was relaying information on how I get weight off cocks on the yard when time is not a factor.. I have never really got into taking alot weight off cocks before or during the keep.. Like you, ideally, I want a rooster just a little over weight going into the keep..
If it worked for Boles, there has to be something to it, considering his success..
This is 2 days befor you put them thru a 3 week keep. & you feel that you just can't do with out a certain cock that is 6 or 7 ounces over weight.
As far as every day weight gain, you gave an excelent way of doing it.
If I only have a few gaining weight & the rest are fine, I will just rotate them once or twice a week.
But the whole yard, your way is the best way.
I call that technique "zero-ing."
The idea is to put the cocks at
low energy level to enable them
to gradually peak toward fight
day.There is no danger of the
birds peaking to soon.
Although I only fast them for a day,
I also deworm and delouse them
on the same day.
I have a thread that somewhat
"Experiment shows cocks have
It is at Sabong News forum.
It is posted in English.
Thanks again Jim. It seems
we have sort of many agreements
in our methods.
Going to the subject of
this thread, well it is simply a
matter of energy in and energy out.
If a cock gets fat it is only becuase
he is taking in more energy than
he spends. Either decrease the
food intake or increase the workout.
One of the very first thing
i do with a newly acquired cock
is to check its metabolic rate.
I do the same thing.
The 2 days is if they are a bit to fat to start them out, with out keeping them hungry for 1/2 of the keep.
Make em hungry, get the uneeded fat of & get them right back on their feed, instead of cutting their feed back for 1/2 the keep & prolonging stress. Or changing their feed & hopping you get it off.
I always up the proteen just a bit thru the keep & then the last week slowly drop it untill the last three feeds are loaded with carbs.
Don't go right up untill the last three feedings & throw the carbs on them all at once because it is an abrupt change of feed. Some people do it that way but, like I say to each their own. If I can ad even 1% towards peak sharpness I will do it.
you can also try feeding less corn and more oats for about a week.
nice sharing your methods friend really very informative!
i just feel like sharing one of my crazy experiment on my 3 cocks
weighing 2.2 kgs. but please think twice if you will try to
experiment the same.
for almost two months i gave them diminishing quanitity of feeds
but of same quality until they reach 1.8 kgs. i sparred them at
this weight and i would say they are not in fighting condition. i
tried to reduce further their weight until it reached 1.75 kgs. here
i can hear them like crying for hunger. loss the roundness of their
body where fellow local cockers are always looking before they
fight the chickens. i maintain their weight at this level for 15 days
then started giving them a little bit to increase their weight to 1.8
kgs. for another 15 days. i started conditioning them at this
weight for 21 days and found that their figting skills are now at
the same level as they were in their 2.2 kgs.
why i did this experiment i just feel my cocks were overweight in
my last derby fight. :lol: did i test them in the pit -no. they started
to molt last month. now i'm maintaining them at this weight and i
would say they are little taller for that weight. :lol:
This is why, if I am going to take weight off, I do it abruptly. That way they are not loosing all the way thru the keep. Then you knock a ounce or two getting them empty & sharp for fight day. Harder on them.
You are always going to drop an ounce or two thru the keep.
But with cocks that have been pulled down too far. Put most of it back & then thru the keep, you can try to add an ounce or two. You can put a lot of grocerys thru them with out any worrys of them getting fat. They feel better & will preform better.
This is why I take weight off fast. When I start with them they are willing to eat anything I feed them. Makes them stronger physicially & Mentally.
try adding soaked jackie oats to the feed. it worked with us. soak the oats for at least a week (the longer it's been soaked, the better) or until the water smells acidic or rancid. then you put a little bit of the soaked oats into the daily feed of your cock. this helps metabolise the fats. we do it for about a week or as necessary.
Sometimes you can use tomato juice over the feed to cut the fat out of a rooster in the Keep.
thank guys for sharing your secrits hope i can improve my cocks win/loss ratio with your formula.Last derby i feel like that our cocks are too smaller than the others. anymore idea you can share????????
If your cocks weight were the same (or slightly higher) with that of your opponents and they still looked smaller, then it is very possible that they were not properly pointed/conditioned and they still have a lot of unnecessary moisture inside their body. Setting aside the facts that your cocks might have been tight-feathered and heavy-boned, improper pointing/conditioning and moisture control could be the main reason why they looked much smaller than their opponents. Cock that go through this process usually have "full" and "corky" body and their best fighting weight is kept to a minimum.Last derby i feel like that our cocks are too smaller than the others. anymore idea you can share????????
If my theory is correct then your cocks could have fought smaller or lesser-weight opponents with proper pointing/conditioning and moisture control. I don't know how you do it in your area but here we usually have 40 gram limit for bad weight and same "give and take" weight for matching purposes. With this system it is possible for one's cock to outweigh his opponent by 80 grams (or even more) if his opponent doesn't know how to properly point/condition his rooster and if he also doesn't know to manage and submit the ideal weight.
I would not go much further for now coz my impression might be wrong. If I am correct, I can add more of my ideas later.
I add more jockey oat from their ration like Partydude said.
If the cock is fat & heavy, I reduce the crude protein (CP) content of their ration from 16%CP down to 12%CP by adding Jockey oat from their regular grain ration.I reduce the pellet because it is the source of protein that I need to cut down
I place the bird inside the scratch box daily before giving the morning feeds; After a week or two I achieve my desired goal.
5 days before fight I replace the grain with pure yellow cracked corn because I need the snap
if your cocks weigh same as your opponent but your cocks not
only looks smaller but actually smaller than the opponent this only
suggest that your cocks are heavy than they should weight.
this what makes the difference in conditioning cocks for derby
and conditioning cocks for hackfight and sometimes are overlook
by handlers like me
in hackfights these might be in advantage if the cocks are well
rounded bodied but definitely not in derbies
Check your roosters under the wings.If you see yellow streaks then they are fat.Check also the vent, if they are hard then they have gut fat.If you don't see any signs of fats then there's a problem with moisture and probably your submitted weights as what Neildivine and Juan mentioned.
Here's how I submit mine.In PI there's a 40 gram give and take allowance and will take that into consideration plus the weight they lose during ponting.Weigh them in the morning day before fight before feed(empty weight).Example, your cock's weight is 2.040.deduct 40 grams for give and take plus 20 grams for the weight they will lose while pointing.Cock's usually lose 20 to 40 grams if dried up enough during pointing.So 2.040 minus 60 grams is 1.980.Submit this weight .With this weight, your cocks can go up to 2.020 and still be good.Make sure you fight them empty to avoid bad weights.
Bringing down the weight of your birds just to get an advantage in height or station, is a very dangerous thing to do. usually you end up picking dead roosters in the pit...
For me, this is a stupid idea... I rather have birds with power than birds with height
I don't think so my friend.A class B well pointed rooster can easily beat a class A rooster if he is not pointed well.That's a fact.I'm just curios where do you fight?in hackfights or derbies?Can you tell us how you put your roosters to peak without getting them empty and dry enough so they don't loose weight?It maybe a better method.Do you point your roosters at all?Because I can't think of another way to point them except to control moisture,get them empty and well rested.A well pointed cock keeps his strenght at his lowest possible weight and that is the advantage.
it's the kick that counts, am i right?
i agree with you swallow, why put a bird to hunger if you can do it in other way. give what the body needs daily
We don't put birds to hunger otherwise they come off point.We just want to fight them at the right time when they are in peak form physically and mentally.And this only achieved when they are just about empty that's why the timing is crucial.Here's a fact a well pointed bird is stronger,faster and fights better than ones who still have feed in their crops or gizzard.Why?That's the big question.First they become lighter while having the same muscle mass.The lighter they are the faster they move and the higher they break.That's an edge.The same muscle mass means the same power.Stronger?Yes,they are much stronger.Why?bec blood which carries glucose and oxygen to energize muscle tissues is distributed evely throughout the body.Where as fowls with feeds in their crops causes bloodflow to shift into these digestive areas bec.involuntarily the brain tells them to do so to aid in the digestive process.That's one reason why you feel sleepy when full because blood flow from your brain goes to your stomach.Another is they last longer in the drag.Why?because they don't bleed profusely compared to fowls with more moisture in them.The reason behind keeping them dry enough is to lower blood pressure.The higher the pressure the faster they bleed and the faster they go into hypovolemic shock.Well pointed roosters are bigger than fowls with more moisture and feed in them.Why?bec.they are lighter while retaining the same muscle mass where as fowls not being pointed are only heavy because of feed and moisture but their muscle mass is smaller.The bigger they are the stronger and powerful they are.
rule of thumb
a lot of moisture in his body makes him heavier,,
dryness makes him lighter,,
try to correct the liquid intake. thanks
nice info cockmates.......