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Thread: CREATINE for conditioning

  
  1. #1
    hiroundhead
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    CREATINE for conditioning

    anybody out there ever used creatine for conditioning. what's the result, and how do you use it. thinking about using creatine myself TNX

  2. #2
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    creatine

    i used creatine powder with good results(from GNC) so far 4 wins and 1 draw in hackfight but this is a powerful anabolic drug that is intended only for human.i started using this as an experiment on my chickens ,avoid using this on hot summer days and stop using this drug 5 days before fight

  3. #3
    neilm
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    Talking

    this anabolic drug is for bone and muscles. we are using this powder form 2 days before fight we include it in their feeds. the other one that we had tried is in caplet form usually during hackfights 1/2 caplet 2-3 hours before the fight good results.

  4. #4
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    Creatine

    the gamecock magazine just posted a good article in they're last issue aug/ sept. '05 page 50. by bankert. hope it helps.

  5. #5
    wolfengott
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    I only use this during precon to built up muscles.

    None during the conditioned keep.


    Pax!!

  6. #6
    Senior Member pogipoint's Avatar
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    creatine is used for building up muscle mass..if you give creatine, you should give plenty of exercise and lots of fluids..

    I believe the creatine in Platinum pellets is just right to give extra muscle mass to the chicken..

    Now how do you maximize the potential use of creatine?

    You need a pathway....I know it but you have to research on it so you will know how it works..

  7. #7
    hiroundhead
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    CREATINE

    TNX, EXSITEME. I READ THE LATEST GAMECOCK MAG. JUST WANT TO GET MORE FEEDBACK ON THE OTHER SABUNGERO'S OUT THERE WHO ARE USING CREATINE. I USED IT MYSELF 5 YEARS AGO WHEN I WAS INTO WEIGHTLIFTING. VERY GOOD FOR THE MUSCLES, COULD FEEL THE DIFF ON MY STRENGT FOR ABOUT A WEEK AFTER USING IT. JUST WANT TO KNOW WHAT'S THE SIDE EFFCT IF USE ON GAMECOCK, ESPECIALLY THEIR KIDNEY.

  8. #8
    kickcut44
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    cockmates

    creatine my opinion give the fowl strength, but the problem is water retention in its muscle. In humans you bulk up fast, and spurt of strenght, only to find out later the bulk is just water.

  9. #9
    ryan72_2000
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    Creatine Monohydrate

    the advantage is the addition of power by as much as 30%; the disadvantage of it is the reduction in cutting accuracy.

  10. #10
    Senior Member bulwark's Avatar
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    Ryan,
    If this id true that it lucks cutting ability it's very dangerous .

    Hope we improve and have the proper use of it. I have never tried it though but i will test it. By the way where is it bought?
    Thanks

  11. #11
    ellisgamefowl
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    I've used creatine for years myself when training for fights , not on my birds . What it does is helps your body store glucose in your muscles . When using it on a regular schedule you will notice your endurance increase and you'll be able to put yourself through a more intense workout .

    Creatine is used to help build muscles , you LK guys may want to take it slow experimenting with it . If you hand work your birds it will be of great benefit , your birds will get stronger because you'll be able to push him further during workouts but as we all know a muscle bound fighter is slow and not flexable enough to extend his muscles very far which will hurt his cutting ability . Also it will increase your birds weight , his muscles will be packed full of glucose which you really don't need in lk competition . The extra weight will no doubt give him a disadvantage in the first fly .

    If I were to try using it on my lk birds i'd try putting them through a two or three week workout using creatine before every workout , then make sure you feed plenty of protien to your bird after the workout . Creatine stores glucose in your muscles , it doesn't build muscles . Protein or amino acids are what builds muscles .

    I would only work them every other day also . When you tare muscle during a hard workout it needs a day of rest to rebuild and become stronger .

    After the two or three weeks of using the creatine & protien suppliments along with a strenuous workout , i'd take them off of it for at least a week or maybe two so you'll have time to stretch those newly built muscles out so your bird can fully extend his legs again . Building muscle will no doubt hurt his flexability .

    All in all , if used correctly it should help your birds strength , endurance , and reaction time but if used incorrectly you'll end up with a bird that's carrying too much body weight thats also lost flexability .

  12. #12
    Senior Member Touchdown's Avatar
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    Ellis,
    just a question.if i will work out my rooster lets say at 7:00am. is it better to give the creatine capsule at 5:00am or 6:00am? do i have to give the creatine with a lil bit of food?

  13. #13
    Member arneld's Avatar
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    Hey Guys! check what I got from Sabungero.com shared by Ncyabut:

    "A lot of people right now are using CREATINE in their respective conditioning programs. Just what is CREATINE?

    The Beginners Guide To Creatine

    • What is Creatine?
    Creatine is a compound that can be made in our bodies or taken as a dietary supplement. The chemical name for Creatine is methyl guanidine-acetic acid. That sure is a mouth full - which is why it is much easier to just call it creatine. Here is the chemical makeup of creatine -

    Creatine is made up of three amino acids - Arginine, Glycine and Methionine. Our liver has the ability to combine these three amino acids and make creatine. The other way we get creatine is from our diet.

    How• much Creatine do we have in our body?
    This varies based on the amount of muscle mass you have and your weight. On average a 160 pound person would have about 120 grams of creatine stored in their body.

    Where is Creatine• stored in our body?
    It is believed that 95 - 98% of the creatine in our body is stored in our muscles. The remaining about 2- 5% is stored in various other parts of the body including the brain, heart and testes.

    So what does• creatine do?
    Now is when the fun begins. First, before we answer this question - understand that the theory of what creatine does - is just that - theory. It is amazing how little we actually know about what goes on in our body. Anyway, we will outline what the majority of research currently agrees on in terms of what role creatine plays in our body.

    1. Provide additional energy for your muscles

    Time for a quick and simple biology lesson. In your body you have a compound called ATP (adenosine tri-phosphate). Think of ATP as an energy containing compound. What is important to know about ATP is that the body can very quickly get energy from a ATP reaction. You have other sources of energy such as carbohydrates and fat - but they take longer to convert into a useable energy source. When you are doing an intense quick burst activity - such as lifting a weight or sprinting, your muscles must contract and need a quick source of energy. This immediate energy comes from ATP.

    Okay - still with us? Here is where it gets interesting. When your muscles use ATP for energy a chemical process happens where the ATP is broken down into two simpler chemicals ADP (adenosine di-phosphate) and inorganic phosphate. This process of ATP turning into ADP releases the energy which gives your muscles the ability to contract. Unfortunately, we do not have an endless supply of ATP. In fact, your muscles only contain enough ATP to last about 10-15 seconds at maximum exertion. In case you were wondering - no, the ADP can not be used to create more energy for your muscles.

    Here is where the creatine comes in - or more specifically the creatine phosphate (CP). We don't want to go into great detail on creatine vs. creatine phosphate now (that is in a later article) - all you need to know now is that the majority of creatine that is stored in the muscles bonds with abundant phosphorus stores in the muscles and is converted into Creatine Phosphate (CP). CP is able to react with the ADP in your body and turn "useless" ADP back into the "super useful" energy source - ATP. More ATP in your body means more fuel for your muscles.

    2. Volumization of your muscles
    Looks like we just made up that word -Volumization - doesn't it? Actually, it's just a fancy name for the process of pulling fluid into the muscle cells and thus increasing the volume of the muscles. Creatine has been shown to pull water into your muscle cells, which increases the size of your muscles. Don't get to excited - it is not clear how great an effect this has. Point #1 is a much clearer benefit of creatine.

    3. Buffer Lactic Acid build-up
    New research has shown that creatine can help buffer lactic acid that builds-up in the muscles during exercise. This leads to that nasty burning feel you get in your muscles. Scientifically it is a complicated process - basically the creatine bonds with a Hydrogen ion and that helps delay the build up of lactic acid. More research needs to be done to see if this point is true.

    4. Enhances Protein Synthesis
    There is some data to indicate that creatine helps put the body in a more anabolic state where protein synthesis can occur. The more protein synthesis - the greater the muscle gain.
    Well - there you have what creatine does in a very simplified nutshell. Of all 4 points - point #1 is the most use of creatine in the body. The other points are more debated - but still look to be valid.

    Is the 120 grams of creatine in my body• enough?
    Maybe. The whole idea behind taking creatine as supplement is that if you workout you burn-up a lot of creatine. If you take a creatine supplement you will have more energy - because the ATP energy cycle can go on for a longer time. We go into supplementation in another article - but here is the quick run down. Unfortunately your muscle's creatine supply is not limitless. The average human has between 3.5 and 4 grams of creatine per kilogram of muscle. Once you use up the creatine in your muscle you have to rest your muscles and wait a while before you can exercise the muscle again. Studies have shown that the human muscle can store up to 5 grams of creatine per kilogram. So, by taking a creatine supplement you can raise your levels from 3.5 to 5 grams of creatine - and thus enjoy more of the benefits of creatine.

    What happens to• creatine that is not used by the body?
    Excess creatine is eventually converted into the waste product creatinine and excreted from the body.

    Well, there you have the The Beginners Guide To Creatine. I hope that wasn't too bad for you - because we are just getting started! Follow the links below to read much more about creatine.
    Creatine Dosage Recommendations and Cycling
    In this article we will discuss what cycling is and if it is necessary with creatine. In addition we will go over how much creatine you should take. Everyone should read The Beginners Guide To Creatine before starting this article.

    How much creatine should I take?•
    You should take the smallest amount that results in a positive gain. By this we mean that if you find that 5 grams work - that is what you should take. Taking 10 grams will not produce twice the effect. Remember what you are trying to do is saturate the muscles with creatine. You are looking to boost your levels by about 30% percent. Taking addition creatine once you have reached saturation is just a waste. Whatever you don't use is just excreted as the waste product - creatinine.
    For the average person 5 grams of creatine powder is the right amount. If you are using serum you will only need to take 2.5 grams of creatine because of the better absorption rate.

    Should I do a loading phase?•
    Probably not. Everyone who sells creatine wants you to do a loading phase where you take 20 grams a day for the first 5 days. From their standpoint - the more you take - the more they sell. However, unless you are in a hurry to gain muscle mass loading is not necessary. Studies have shown that people who load have greater gains than people who take just 5 grams a day after the first 2 weeks. However, after 4 weeks both groups are at an equal level. So, all loading does is just get you to the same point 2 weeks faster. We don't think taking 100 grams in 1 week is worth it if all it does is shave 2 weeks off the process. In the end you are not going to have greater gains with loading.

    What is• cycling?
    In the sports supplements world cycling is a procedure where you use a supplement for a while, then stop, then go back to using it. You go through a cycle of use.

    Why do people cycle supplements•
    Cycling first started with steroid use. The idea is that if you give your body a constant source of a substance - it may eventually get lazy and stop making the substance. In effect your body just relies on you to feed it the supplement - rather than making it. So, if you take a few weeks off from using supplement you ensure that your body will continue to produce the substance.

    Do I• need to cycle with creatine?
    Maybe. Have you figured out yet that we never give a straight answer? The fact is that people have not been supplementing with creatine long enough to know if cycling is required. Our feeling is "better safe than sorry." You have nothing to lose by cycling and a few years from now you may find out that it was a good idea. It is always good to give your body a rest from any supplement. We find that a 2 month on and 1 month off cycle has worked for us.

    When to take a Creatine Supplement
    In this article we will go over when is the best time to take a creatine supplement. Everyone should read The Beginners Guide To Creatine before starting this article.

    Should I• take Creatine before or after my workout?
    Seems like such an easy question - but as with most things, nothing is ever that easy. The answer that is right most of the time is - before your workout. However, the form of creatine (powder, liquid, gum, etc.) you use effects the answer. In addition if you are taking a supplement that has other ingredients in addition to the creatine - that can also play into the answer. So - let's look at some more detail...

    What do the scientific studies say about when to take creatine?•
    Most of the studies involved giving volunteers powder creatine monohydrate before a workout. If they were doing a loading phase it was split into 4 servings (5 grams each) and these were given throughout the day. Still other studies split the dosage even in the maintenance phase and give half the creatine before a workout and the other half after.

    This all sounds confusing - but it points to two facts. First, very few studies have been done with taking creatine only after a workout. Second, the exact timing of when you take the creatine may not be critical. As long as you have creatine available to your muscles - it will be effective.

    How long does creatine stay in• the blood stream?
    When you take creatine in powder form - it is in your blood stream for about 1 - 1.5 hours. For muscle growth the creatine must be absorbed into the muscles. So, if you are working out and deplete your creatine supply in your muscles AND you have creatine available in the blood stream, your muscles can replenish their creatine supply from the creatine in your blood.
    Here is the important point - if your muscles are fully saturated with creatine and you are not working out ( so you are not depleting your creatine stores) then after 1.5 hours the creatine in your blood will be converted into creatinine and excreted.

    So, with Creatine powder - should I take it• before my workout or after?
    Here is our advice - take the powder about 1 hour before your workout. Here is our reasoning...
    It can take about 1 hour for the creatine to be absorbed into the bloodstream - and from that point you have about 1.5 hours to use the creatine or lose it. So, let's say you workout at 10am - here is our logic. At 9am you take the creatine powder. By 10am the creatine is in the blood stream. Your muscles are probably mostly saturated with creatine from the supplement you took the day before. So, some of the creatine you took at 9am may be absorbed into the muscles - but the rest is still in the blood. At 10am you start working out and depleting the creatine in your muscles. Your muscles then replenish their creatine supply from the creatine in the blood stream. Your workout ends at 11am (you really should not workout more than 1 hour - but that is a topic for a different day). Remember, you took creatine at 9am - but it was not absorbed into the blood stream until 10am. This means it will stay there until 11:30am (1.5 hours). So, now you have another 1/2 hour where your muscles can replenish their creatine supply if depleted. In a way you are getting the best of all worlds - you have creatine available before, during and after your workout.

    You will hear other theories - but that is what we have found to be most effective. Since creatine supplies us with energy when working out - it is important we have creatine available during our workout. Creatine as a recovery agent is much less clear, so taking it after a workout to help with recovery is not proven.

    Why does my bottle say take it after• a workout?
    Good question - there are a few reasons for that. The first is that they have a different opinion than us on how creatine works. If this is the case, I would call and ask them to explain exactly why they think after a workout is better. A second reason is that your supplement has other ingredients besides creatine. Many companies have tried to improve on creatine by adding all types of other supplements. It may be that some of those other supplements do much better if taken after a workout. After a workout is a great time to take a protein supplement because your body is in a growth phase (anabolic). Taking creatine after a workout is not a terrible idea - it is a great time to get the creatine absorbed into the muscles. We just feel, it is important to have creatine available to the muscles during your workout if their creatine supply is depleted. Again, if the manufacturer can provide a clear explanation of why to take it after a workout - fine.

    What if I have been taking creatine• after my workout?
    Don't worry you have still been getting most the benefits of creatine. What is probably happening is the creatine you take after your workout on Monday is what your body will use during your workout on Tuesday. I know - we said creatine only lasts 1.5 hours in the blood stream. However, creatine can last for days once it is trapped within your muscles. So, the creatine you take after your Monday workout is pulled into the depleted muscles where it will stay for days until you use it up. The only problem is that if you deplete your creatine stores during a workout you will not have any other creatine available. This is why we think taking it before a workout is better.

    What about liquid, serum, effervescent or creatine gum?•
    These forms of creatine are absorbed more quickly by the body. For this reason, we still recommend taking them before a workout - but only about 20 minutes before a workout. Again, the creatine will stay in the blood stream for up to 1.5 hours - but it will only take 20 minutes for the creatine to get into the blood stream.

    Should I take creatine on my off days?•
    Seems like a simple question - but it is very hard to get a straight answer on this one. There is some evidence that indicates that creatine can help with muscle recovery. If this is true, then taking creatine on your off days is a good idea. Our feeling is that more research needs to be done before anyone can conclusively say that creatine helps with recovery. This research may not come anytime soon so you are left to make your own decision. If you feel that creatine is helping with muscle recovery, then yes take it on your off days. If you are not convinced that creatine helps with recovery, then you do not need to take it on off days.

    Many people believe that you need to take creatine everyday to keep your creatine levels topped off. We do not see the research that proves this to be true. If you are taking creatine for the muscular boost in energy, that taking it just on workout days should be fine.
    Want more facts to make this questions more confusing? A University of Kentucky study shows that use of creatine could help the brain recover from concussions and other injuries commonly suffered by professional and amateur athletes (the study was published in the Annals of Neurology - 11/2000). Brain damage was reduced 21% when creatine was given to mice three days before injury and 36% when given five days ahead of time. Rats given a diet with creatine for four weeks had 50% less brain damage than rats who did not receive creatine. This may explain why pro football players can recover so quickly from concussions - they take creatine.
    So, if you play a contact sport you may want to take creatine everyday for the possible prevention of brain damage. Of course, more research needs to be done - but just another factor to consider when you decide if you should use creatine on your off days.
    What do we do? Most of us take a half dose of creatine on off days and a full dose on days we work out.

  14. #14
    ellisgamefowl
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    Touchdown , I think what i'd do is give the creatine capsule an hour before the work out and at the same time get a dropper and squirt some water down his throat to help it through his system quicker , maybe gatorade .

    Also , always work them when they're close to empty . They just act better and will handle the work better when they don't have alot of feed in em .

    After the workout i'd let em rest for an hour or so then give them some type of high protien feed to get enough amino acids in his system for maximum muscle growth , some type of amino acid suppliment would go well with creatine .

    Like I said , i've never used creatine on a rooster before . Just a few ideas i have . I've thought of trying it myself just haven't got around to it .

  15. #15
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    CREATINE

    There is no need for creatine for our warriors. There is no right way to give it to them. I really don't think it would benefit them much maybe not at all. Remember, majority of the people that use this products are bodybuilders. If you wanna build mucsles on your fowl then that's fine. I bet you won't do any better in the pit. Just my opinion. Never used it and never will. Just on myself.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Touchdown's Avatar
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    Ellis,
    thanks for your reply.i have tried the method you mentioned before.just wanting to know if i'm doing it the right way.thanks a lot.with the info mentioned above.i'm gonna try some modifications in giving it.

    arneld,
    thanks so much.that was such a great info my kasabong.

    cheers and mabuhay!!!!

  17. #17
    Senior Member ApUnG sImEoN's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Nice thread

    good input everyone!

    thanks to all who shared there knowledge to us begginers!

  18. #18
    I.C.F.
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    Look Impressive...

    i would try it my self to my birds...
    thanks guys and good luck...

    Cheer,
    I.C.F.

  19. #19
    Cyberfriends ncyabut's Avatar
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    arneld, i don't think its proper posting here what you got from sabungero.com...


    ... but for the benefit of everybody here is the entire thread ....

    creatine from sabungero.com

  20. #20
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    Nice added supplement to your birds , have friends that are using it BUT for me i still be using the old natural way....drug free... for me is better to let your birds fight through its hidden skills,talents & ability..this is just my 2 cents opinnion...:smoke:

  21. #21
    talladega
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    good idea

  22. #22
    birdbrain
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    100%

    THAT IS THE BEST AWNSER I HAVE HERD 100% NATURAL

    If you have a cock that wins 5 times with inhancing drugs and
    you brood him. Then your stags out of him will not be as good as they should be becouse you are breeding a lie!!!

  23. #23
    Senior Member juan sabungero's Avatar
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    also a write-up of doc linda in pcs handout regarding creatine
    is very informative. i just don't have a copy right now to post.

    no doubt professional handlers used this drug and kept their
    mounth shut on this topic. it is not recommended for used if
    you haven't experiment it before and seen the consequences

    remember fighting skills of gamefowls, like cutting accuracy,
    are inherent to their bloodlines. these are only enhanced
    through good conditioning, pointing and use of some drugs

    some info you may also want to consider in using creatine in
    your fowl is their fighting weight, the dosage and other drugs
    that you give that might react negatively with creatine.

    if you are the adventurous type cocker experiment and toll
    some expenses in doing it. your first hand experience is the
    best teacher

  24. #24
    Member ristek0720's Avatar
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    Re: CREATINE for conditioning

    up lang po ntin, natabunan na eh....

  25. #25
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    Re: CREATINE for conditioning

    i dont think creatine would be good for roosters because i believe they might bloat and it messes with their water retention which in turn would mess with their moisture wouldnt it ??

  26. #26
    Member napoleon gabriel's Avatar
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    Re: CREATINE for conditioning

    there two kind of creatine:

    mono it retain water

    non mono doesn't retain water

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    Re: CREATINE for conditioning

    ooo well thats true and it is pretty cheap but if that were the case y not use a pro hormone like P-plex that helps build good lean muscle but not too big?

  28. #28
    Senior Member royandres314's Avatar
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    Arrow Re: CREATINE for conditioning

    i used creatine for the past 3 years, i used Creatine capsules and drops only during the last 14 days or 7 days minimum, i will not fight my chicken if they are not loaded with Creatine....................

  29. #29
    Member ristek0720's Avatar
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    Re: CREATINE for conditioning

    up lang natin........gud day!!!!

  30. #30
    Senior Member tanyor's Avatar
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    Re: CREATINE for conditioning

    i've been using musashi creatine powder to my birds this year, so far the results is great gives me more wins ang they really cut very strong its like they have a firecrackers on their feet when they cut! cheers

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