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Thread: The Secret Blood of the Zamboanga White?

  
  1. #1
    berdmata
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    The Secret Blood of the Zamboanga White?

    Zamboanga White was a speed fowl. Characterized with a killer-instinct of almost lightning speed, so precise on its execution that it becomes quite a question of aberration to compare this fighting trait with the typical butcher/claret/hatch crossed, composing the basic bloodlines of the lemon fowl, from which it is believed that the Zamboanga white had originated.

    The butcher and hatch are known for power and gameness. The claret, on the other hand, is known for speed and cutting. The breeder behind this nicked was Owen Mc Guinnis, who selected and had perpetuated this line for Duke Hulsey; who fought these fowls armed with more brains and better cutting.

    Duke Hulsey fought in an era when power and gameness were the emphasis. So he took the opposite route wherein he emphasized brains over gameness, and cutting ability over power, which helped him outwit the general competition, eventually.

    The emergence of the Zamboanga White out of the same blood was quite a phenomenon; to think that its superior strength sprung from its lightning offense, this fighting characteristic betrayed the simple common sense we have on the fighting strenght of the lemon fowl, whose killer-instinct lies on its defense.

    Now, before we get into the bottom of where the secret blood of the Zamboanga White lurks, let's get back first to where it all began: On the popular belief that the Zamboanga White originated from the lemon blood

    Consider this:

    butcher/power, hatch/power, claret/speed= 3/4 power and 1/4 speed

    Meaning, these three-way crossed is no different at all to the popular blood make-up during the time of Duke Hulsey, when the emphasis were on power and gameness.

    Yet, the Duke Hulsey lemon that we knew of isn't that game but brainy; not that powerful but more of a cutting fowl.

    So we have here a question of our popular belief going against our conventional wisdom. Rather, something in the blood of the lemon fowl must have been infused by Owen Mc Guinnis, to temper the power and gameness of this crossed, and meet the specific needs of Duke Hulsey, who was by then already mavericked to the idea of power and gameness being the key to cockfighting supremacy here in the Philippines.

    Owen Mc Guinnis never revealed the secret blood he infused into the Duke Hulsey fowls. But this secret blood infusion of the master breeder did reveal itself quite by chance to Boy Primallion.

    Of course, Mc Guinnis kept the secret to himself, and there was a good reason for this: It was a white-bearded dunghill fowl that fought so super-fast, exactly the kind he was looking for.

    Now, being the master breeder that he was, he knew instinctively how much of this dunghill blood he would need to serve his definite purpose.

    In short, the secret blood behind the success of Duke Hulsey fowls, was finally revealed in the flesh and blood of the Zamboanga White fowls.

    A dunghill blood refined and perfected by time and nature.

  2. #2
    Senior Member grey/dom's Avatar
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    is it of lemon blood?

    dont think so.....zw has a kelso blood in it...imoho..hehehehe..

  3. #3
    Senior Member beakheel's Avatar
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    I also heard that the breeder is scouting white cocks in negros before.

  4. #4
    Senior Member chuckeee2's Avatar
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    berdmata,

    very educational posting there about the origin of the ZW especially for us like me who wants to get a jumpstart on breeding.... thanks.

  5. #5
    Senior Member hampaslupa's Avatar
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    nice hypothesis.......

  6. #6
    Senior Member pitgods's Avatar
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    Good post, Keep it up!!!

  7. #7
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    if the zw can stage a comeback... can they stand mano mano with the best sweaters around?

  8. #8
    Member polotipot's Avatar
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    kogmohon

    well how much per trio then.coz ive heard that doc ayong lorenza had cardinal kelso too that were not expensive.

  9. #9
    Senior Member reybanz's Avatar
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    interesting post!

    A dunghill blood refined and perfected by time and nature.

  10. #10
    Senior Member hotspur's Avatar
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    now that is a post worthy of a thoughtful thinking,about the ZW and the LEMON,..thanks berdmata.

  11. #11
    Member KAMAGONG COCKS's Avatar
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    ARE WE....

    SIDESTEPPED TO MAKE IT NOT KNOWN? HEHEHE

    ONLY BPZ CAN TELL...

    I HAVE AUTHENTIC ZWHITE...YELLOW LEGGED...IT HAS A BODY AND GAMENESS OF AN ASIL...AND A CROWN LIKE OF BOLES CHICKEN...HMMMMMMMMMMM...AND DONT HAVE FEATHER IN THE EAR...

    BUT I HEARD THEY HAVE WHITEHACKLE AND THOMASON KELSO IN IT...

    BAKA NILIGAW LANG TAYO....

    JMOHO

  12. #12
    El Espaņol
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    I dont know anything about the Z whites other than an old Pinoy cocker friend of mine told me that they have a dash of Spanish blood in them.......which was denied by Ms. Golden Dragon. She would know better than me, that is for sure.

    Regards,

  13. #13
    Senior Member grey/dom's Avatar
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    mine...

    is a blue legged from...MAM GD...and i cant see any lemon blood in it...hehehehe

  14. #14
    berdmata
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    grey/dom,

    Walter Kelso inherited half of the fowls of Col. Madigin after he died. Claret is in the blood of the lemon fowl. So what you said is partially right.

  15. #15
    berdmata
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    Kamagong,

    Whitehackle is almost in the blood of most champion bloodlines. But it's more of a power blood.

  16. #16
    Member al kapon's Avatar
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    nice and impormative post:lol:

  17. #17
    MOSELINA
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    Nice Topic

    Is it true that Zamboanga White is a throwback?

  18. #18
    CyberFriends
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    fantastic ZWs!!!

    a renewed interest in the ZWs it is very nice to read all these but.... between this thread and the thread zamboanga whites perfect fighting machine is very much alike ...

    same author perhaps ? I have nothing against this new thread just wondering why this was opened.
    meron bang gustong magbenta ng ZWS ?

    el espanol you concurred with me when you said that you misread the article and yes I will repeat there is no azil blood in the ZWs.

    moselina if you read the thread zamboanga white the perfect fighting machine under chicken talk and which is now in the hot topic maybe you will be able to find the answer to your question.


    Notice : just wondering why the sudden interest in the ZWs ?
    are there people behind all this pinapagulo ang history ng ZWs
    why ? buhay pa naman si BPZ why don't some of you call him \ visit him in zamboanga para malaman ninyo ang katotohanan.
    BPZ is still very much of sound mind not of sound body.

    cheers....

  19. #19
    El Espaņol
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    Oh, I don't have renewed interest. I like them, but I have too many breeds in the yard already!!

    Ms. GD, I never said Asil, I said Spanish.........but I know they dont have any Spanish or Asil in them..........the Asil is obvious.

    Thanks for your input.

    Regards,

  20. #20
    Senior Member hampaslupa's Avatar
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    berdmata,

    what all you are saying are purely hypothetical...i saw a n interview with boy primallion and he said that it was a throwback from a trio he got from a local breeder..that's why he's having a hard time perpetuating its breed because it is a throwback...he is very strict in culling eventhough he produce lots of white, he strictly cull all that did not pass his standard even if it means he can only have 1 stag out of the siblings...

  21. #21
    Senior Member bulik_apatot's Avatar
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    one magazine article, it say
    "zamboanga white is a throwback of lemon...."
    and the author further says that Legendary breeder Boy P.
    confirmed it...

  22. #22
    berdmata
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    Kogmohon,

    The sweaters represent the ingenuity of the Alabama breeders. Zamboanga White, of nature's own idea of a perfect fightingcock.

    It's up to anyone to draw out his own conclusion.

    Moselina, bulik apatot,

    Ma'm Gd is right, all the information pertaining to Zamboanga White being a white throwback from the lemons of Mr. Palmares is under the thread "Zamboanga White, The Perfect Fightingcock," in the Hot Topic.

    Hampaslupa,

    We have to make sense of the available informations, and in the process, try to see where it leads up to, whether the facts we have will be conclusive or inconclusive; but one thing is for sure though, it would be such a learning experience along the way.

    Ma'm GD,

    This thread isn't meant to sell anything but only to enlighten those who are really interested on the subject.

    The origin of the Zamboanga White should be seen not just from the standpoint of where it came from, but also from a historical perspective that's relevant to its existence.

    Hotspur,

    Your point is well taken. Thanks.

    chuckee2,

    Good luck. Thanks.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Taga_Cebu's Avatar
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    how could this thread enlighten our fellow cockmates where everyone is just making their own conclusion.....

    if you ask anybody in the Philippines where this fowl originated or who set this as a strain....... everybody would tell you that it's Boy Primallion.....

    Instead of making guesses and drawing inaccurate conclusions....why not just go to the source and ask the man himself Mr. Boy Primallion....I'm sure he'll be happy to tell you.

  24. #24
    berdmata
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    Taga Cebu,

    That option is open to anyone. Thanks.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Taga_Cebu's Avatar
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    berdmata,


    you're right that everybody has there own opinion.... but why have an opinion when you can get a fact......

    Mr. Boy Primallion is still alive and well.... and the subject being discussed has something to do with what he originated as a strain and what he's known for....
    getting peoples opinion whom are not fully knowledgeable about this will get you nowhere and will lead to heresay... It seems that of all the members here.... you're the only one who's pretty concerned where this fowl came from and how it originated........just go to the source and you're search in life will come to an end.

  26. Likes ChinaRose liked this post
  27. #26
    berdmata
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    Taga cebu,

    Unlike the other famous bloodlines, Zamboanga White was not a product of selective breeding. It was more a product of epistasis.

    That even Boy Primallion himself could hardly duplicate the breeding performance of the original parent broodcock and broodhen (the white throwbacks) when they died---after seven years or so, of phenomenal breeding performance.

    Boy Primallion, however, knew the secret of selecting the finest specimen among the offsprings.

    But the breeding performance of the original pair he has yet to replicate.

    Thanks.

  28. #27
    Senior Member Taga_Cebu's Avatar
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    berdmata,

    of course Mr. Boy Primallion couldn't replicate the exact specimen that he started with...... it would mean he'd have to clone them.

    I'm not that much of an expert in genetics but when you try to duplicate a parent of it's exactness..... then there's no other way than cloning...

    From my understanding here in reading different threads and sites.... however deep you go into inbreeding.... you will never duplicate the traits of it's original parents...... but you can only come close to it...

  29. #28
    berdmata
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    Taga Cebu,

    The purpose of this thread is to dig deeper into the surrounding circumstances behind the origin of Zamboanga White.

    The contribution of our fellow cockers around the globe may help enlighten us quite a bit, even if not thoroughly.

  30. #29
    BULLET2
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    ZW

    Nice post and input on ZW. Keep on going!!!!

  31. #30
    peterzimbabwe
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    zw

    All this talks about this bloodline are all BS. I agree with taga_cebu if you're really interested in the truth why not go to the originator of this bloodline himself. The guy is still alive and I'm sure will be happy to share the secrets with you, instead of indulging on speculations and heresays which doesn't have any bases at all except for literary ambitions.

  32. Likes ChinaRose liked this post

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