November 28th, 2005, 05:35 PM
How to use Vit. B-15?Particularly Dr. Blues B-15 Nite owl Method
November 28th, 2005, 06:58 PM
use the search, there are previous discussion on this item
November 29th, 2005, 04:30 AM
check your mailbox on the Keep
November 29th, 2005, 05:52 AM
B-15 injectible (night owl method) 50mg/cc: use 1/4cc injected under skin last 2 days of the keep and again 3 to 4 hours prior to start of competition or weighing time.
November 29th, 2005, 07:54 AM
whate are the beneficial effect of giving b-15 vits . . .
November 29th, 2005, 08:04 AM
Here's what B-15 is:
"B-15 is not a vitamin; it is calcium panganate. It is used to remove lactic acid from the muscle tissues and increase oxygen uptake by the muscle tissues from the blood stream."
November 29th, 2005, 08:21 AM
Lactic Acid is developed with to much exercise or work and less oxigenation of the body. To much lactic acid to the body will cause a muscle cramps. B15 is best to use after maffing the chicken and 2 to 3 dyas before the fight.
November 29th, 2005, 08:23 AM
this is the first time i heard B15, actually. anymore inputs,please.
November 29th, 2005, 08:35 AM
B15 flash the lactic acid or reduce the lactic acid in the body.
November 29th, 2005, 01:48 PM
B-15 Is NOT a vitamins
Try search the dosage and where ur going to apply
2 days b4 figth (eg sunday is fight day)
.10cc left breast
some they shot at the back neck under skin
November 29th, 2005, 02:40 PM
b-15...this is what is recommended by the manufacturer (nightowl): .50 14th day of the keep .30 third day before the fight
.15 day before the fight. i used half of the dosage to my stags and i got good results.
November 29th, 2005, 09:13 PM
aNYBODY WHO USE THE TABLET FORM?
November 30th, 2005, 05:29 AM
B-15 Tablet form
I use B-15 tablets. 3 days before fight day. I give before feeding. Works good for me...
November 30th, 2005, 05:33 AM
One more thing, I get mine from Wood Enterprise (b-15 "russian formula")
November 30th, 2005, 06:00 AM
Why do you want to remove lactic acid while this molecule is broken down to produce more ATP = energy? Isn't this a good thing for the rooster during anaerobic respiration. Search for this molecule in other website you might be surprised that you don't want to get rid of the lactic acid. Nutrition and interval exercise might just be the key for conditioning.
November 30th, 2005, 11:48 AM
:hippie: nice question you have there sir.
November 30th, 2005, 12:28 PM
Pangamic acid (Vitamin B15)
DMG (n,n-Dimethylglycine) is the active nutrient behind what was called B-15, calcium pangamate, or pangamic acid. It is an intermediary metabolite that is useful in the production of neurotransmitters, hormones, DNA, choline, and methionine. It enhances the immune response system, and helps normalize blood glucose levels and reduce high blood pressure levels. It enhances oxygen utilization, reduces lactic acid formation, and aids detoxification- improving liver, pancreas, and adrenal function. In 1960 Russia reported DMG benefited people suffering from diabetes, alcoholism, mental disorders, and cardiovascular ailments. When exercising, sharpening and vision, stopping allergy reactions, and even stopping headaches in the early stages. Also, DMG enhanced athletic performance, as demonstrated by the Olympics. Found it to have excellent results for increasing endurance.
December 1st, 2005, 12:43 AM
ATP and anaerobic respiration
Anaerobic respiration in roosters? This is new to me. As far as I know, this type of respiration occurs only in microorganisms (i.e. bacteria). These microorganisms breathe through their cells. These microorganisms don't have lungs.
Can you point our readers to your specific source on the internet that relates your "ATP and anaerobic respiration" to higher forms of animals/vertebrates like roosters?
I will appreciate your enlightenment as this is the first time I've come across these terms in regards to gamecock conditioning. All that I've read so far are contrary to your view.
December 1st, 2005, 12:50 AM
that is interesting.
are there more info in the web regarding b-15?
i might just use it on myself. thanks.
December 1st, 2005, 01:17 AM
Just research (read) then decide for yourself if B15 is really necessary, sample website http://www.tkdtutor.com/11Training/LacticAcid.htm
December 1st, 2005, 04:42 AM
December 1st, 2005, 11:07 AM
instead of b15...why don't you go naturale...how about mint grass... kalamongay(visaya) mamugay(tag)...garlic...form a small
ball like the size of corn and feed them by hand. use them as treats noon time daily during the keep. it will help your cock win
December 1st, 2005, 03:23 PM
i like the site
it does make you think about lactic acid and what it does to the body. research before points the blame of fatigue in lactic acid. but in my experience, b15 made a big difference in the performance our fighting cocks. putting the scientific perspective aside ( about lactic acid), what i experience with b15 with the cocks are remarkable. first i will consider that we are fighting in the long knife, 2nd is in selection of cocks you woulld want cut and speed. so, what it did was making the cocks hit faster with multiple barrage of shuffle and not stopping a bit.
SO i would say that b15 made them heighten their reflexes and stamina. of course all the cutting ability and speed are in the birds already... so this enhanced it. if it claims that it aids in the lactic build up which we so condemn before...so be it. it actually change my perspective right away to come up with this evaluation from the performance of my fighting cock.
correct me if im wrong.
December 1st, 2005, 03:26 PM
thnx for posting that website on lactic acid new updates
December 1st, 2005, 05:15 PM
Well it is banned from Olympic competition, so they think it enhances performance.
I'll ask the chicken doc on steelgame and post his reply here for you.
Personally I beleive it helps in the longer fights.
December 1st, 2005, 08:09 PM
B-15 and lactic acid
This topic is getting interesting. I've made a few more research on the net about B-15 and lactic acid and I'd like to present extract of the articles that I've read together with my personal understanding of these articles.
First question: Is B-15 a vitamin? What does it do to the body?
Below is the information I got from a number of articles I've read on the internet that answer the question.
"A Vitamin is an organic molecule required by a living organism in minute amounts for proper health. An organism deprived of all sources of a particular vitamin will eventually suffer from disease symptoms specific to that vitamin."
"Pangamic Acid (B-15) is not a vitamin in the strict sense because it has not been proven to be an essential requirement for the body. It has not yet been shown to be essential in the diet (vitamins must be supplied from external sources), and no symptoms or deficiency diseases are clearly revealed when consumption is restricted."
"The function of pangamic acid is mainly a methyl donor, which helps in the formation of certain amino acids such as methionine. It may play a role in the oxidation of glucose and in cell respiration. By this function, it may reduce hypoxia (deficient oxygen) in cardiac and other muscles."
"The most common form of pangamic acid was calcium pangamate, but currently it is dimethyl glycine (DMG), which may even be the active component that has been hailed in the Soviet Union. Pangamic acid or DMG, when used, is often taken with vitamin E and vitamin A."
From the explanation above, I believe it is safe to say for now that a gamecock will not develop illnesses or deficiencies kung hindi binibigyan ng B-15. Walang epekto ang B-15 sa health ng gamecock.
If that is so, then what the heck is B-15 for? I believe the answer can be best understood if we examine what lactic acid is all about. Let me extract two paragraphs from the articles that our fellow cocker Fring has referred to us. I believe these will help us understand the role of B-15 in the body.
"What is lactic acid good for?"
"First of all, the accumulation of lactic acid during exercise can interfere with muscle contraction, nerve conduction and energy production, leading to acute fatigue. Thatís one reason you tire during a training session. Yet lactic acid isnít just a useless byproduct of energy metabolism ó it is an important energy source."
"Adenosine Triphosphate (ATP) is the primary form of cell energy. Actively contracting muscles obtain ATP from glucose stored in the blood stream and the breakdown of glycogen stored in the muscles. Initially, pyruvic acid and small amounts of ATP are generated from the breakdown of glucose. The pyruvic acid mixed with oxygen is converted to carbon dioxide, water and ATP. When muscles contract vigorously for long periods the circulatory system begins to lose ground in the delivery of oxygen. In these conditions, most of the pyruvic acid produced in the breakdown of glucose is converted to lactic acid (LA). As the lactate is produced in the muscles, it leaks out into the blood and is carried around the body. If this condition continues the functioning of the body will become impaired and the muscles will fatigue very quickly. When oxygen becomes available, the lactic acid is converted to pyruvic acid and then into carbon dioxide, water and ATP."
The second paragraph includes a paradoxical statement - that is, "lactic acid leads to acute fatigue but it is an important source of energy". Nakakalito, di ba? . Masama pero kailangan. The second part of this statement is probably the basis why our friend Fring posed the question "Why remove lactic acid when it is an important source of energy?"
Well, if one reads through the article, he will find the answer there. Lactic acid, per se, causes fatigue. For it to be useful to the body it has to be converted back to pyruvic acid, then to ATP. And what is needed for this conversion to occur? OXYGEN!!! This is where B-15 comes in. It aids in the oxidation process. It does not remove lactic acid in the literal sense of the word. It aids in the oxidation process such that more of the stored glocuse is converted to ATP and therefore less lactic acid develops. Di ba, it is explained above that, in the absence of oxygen, glucose is converted to lactic acid. Ergo, the more efficient in the delivery of oxygen is, the more energy is produced, the less lactic acid is developed.
Does this make sense?????
By the way, B-15 injectable helped my cocks win the derby in Pagadian (4-0) earlier this year. I'm convinced it helps in some ways.
December 1st, 2005, 10:11 PM
since discussion in ATP is going on if i may insert to the topic
would administering creatine together with b-15 advisable . . .
December 2nd, 2005, 01:15 AM
Thanks for giving more info on B15, then they (manufacturer) should probably market this product as harmless and " a methyl donor, which helps in the formation of certain amino acids such as methionine. It may play a role in the oxidation of glucose and in cell respiration. By this function, it may reduce hypoxia (deficient oxygen) in cardiac and other muscles." Thus enhancing performance.
In your current conditioning, was B15 the only thing you have added to your regimen, which resulted in enhancement in performance in your roosters?
In this case scenario, then can we tell other sabungeros to use it?
December 2nd, 2005, 01:19 AM
B-15 and Creatine
You've raised an interesting question there. It aroused my curiousity.
This is the first time I've heard of creatine for gamecocks but from what I've read so far, it seems to me that B-15 and creatine might complement each other. B-15 for the aerobic exercises (long but low intensity activity which requires oxygen) while creatine is for anaerobic exercises (intense quick burst activity). One is for endurance, the other for strength/power.
I am not totally sold yet to creatine but I would like to give it a try with my rejects in hackfights. Medyo may kamahalan lang ang supplement na ito. It is quite prohibitive at about $45 per 250ml.
I'll try it when I go to the Phils late this month and I will post our observations here when I come back next month.
December 2nd, 2005, 01:27 AM
In my farm, we use B-15 in conjunction with other conditioning aids, mostly Dr Blues products. But we do not use conditioning aids for the sake of using them. Each of the conditioning aid that we use serve specific purpose and so they are administered at the precise time that they give the maximum benefit to the cock. we usually start with the manufacturer's recommendation, then we adjust according to what we observe on the ground. It's a trial and error method because I do not to listen to old folks telling me what to give and not explaining the reason why.