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Thread: cutting ability

  
  1. #1
    xkalibur
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    cutting ability

    just a while ago (in a different topic) cutfreak (you must have very sharp eyes pare!) said that "some hatches may throw their feet but the strokes are short. It is like the stroke of chopping onions into small bits compared to axing a log".

    most people can describe the fighting traits of the various blodlines but how about their leg action? it's difficult to see the leg action since its just a blur due to speed. however, i am sure there are some people out there who can follow the leg action of their cocks.

    i am now hoping if anyone, anyone with a fast eye! could also describe how the other famous bloodlines throw their feet, this would be of immense interest and of immense value to us. how does a sweater throw its feet? a roundhead? a lemon? a black? a kelso? a butcher? an asil? etc, etc......

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  3. #2
    zrauloh
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    As a betting aficionado, if I can learn which breed throws better leg or punch, then I can be rich. All I have to be nosy about is find out the breed of the cock to be fought.

    Which breed has not killed in one buckle? Say two or three buckles. All of them has, right?

    This sabong has no definite, that's why it's fun and very exciting!

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  5. #3
    zrauloh
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    Definite. That is in your breed. If you know your breed to cut good, then keep it. Well, fight it too of course :lol:

  6. #4
    Member cutfreak's Avatar
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    xcalibur,

    That observation on hatch cutting ability is more of a generalized observation as I have seen green legged hatches (but very few) who would cut with long strokes. Emoy and Boy Diaz calls it "Pull" and more or less like "payakap" to the body of the opponent-- not a lot of wasted motion. It is difficult to make a general statement regarding cutting ability on sweaters, roundheads etc.. My roundheads for instance are not the fast ones. The late Reb Williamson would fight it in the gaff. I had a Dennis Dunnivan Roundhead which are single stroke, does not break and more of a "throw" and fast action type. I guess with all the infusion some are good and others are much better. Also, it is not really "...eyes following leg action" I think the best way to put it is, in boxing for instance, you do not really focus on your opponents hands, you look at the shoulders. In sparring, sometimes you will even hear it. Some blows sounds like an UZI (a quick rrrrt).

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  8. #5
    kickcut44
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    game fowls are usually good cutters..... butchers, hatch, greys...etc

  9. #6
    Senior Member ironchef's Avatar
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    Of all characteristics of a fighting fowl i value Cutting Ability to be the most important....gameness and etc....follows....

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  11. #7
    xkalibur
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    cutfreak,

    i happen to breed green legged hatches (mclean). my hatches legwork during the clash in mid air is only ordinary not really much different from other gamecocks.

    but when the two combatants are on the ground, my hatch goes into machine gun mode and unleashes a rapid fire staccato of kicks (even his wings are also fluttering as he delivers this dance of death). it is seldom an opponent who survives this vicious stabbing. whenever we examine the dead opponent, there are usually many big gaping holes in its body.

    my roundheads are also just typical cutters (deadly too but not much different from other breeds). however, my roundheads have this unique trait of wanting to land on the opponent (stabbing from above). even its offspring try to do this and they usually connect and when they connect the opponent dies very quickly.

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  13. #8
    Senior Member ironchef's Avatar
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    The so called "the pull" as termed by emoy and Boy can be seen mostly in fowls that throws multiple shuffles or "shufflers" as coined by some, when a slasher knife connects and not readily pulled out from its port of entry while the connecting bird would still be throwing multiple shuffles and in the process dragging the opponent presenting an act of pulling (true when a slasher knife gets caught in some bony parts in the fowls anatomy such as the ribs etc...) while single stroke fowls that strike deliberately with accurate hits and stopped it's opponent dead cold in a single or few buckles that may not be even noticed by expert eyes and may not be as fancy as the above...to me that is CUTTING!!!

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  15. #9
    Senior Member WT AVALON's Avatar
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    I like my Gamefowl to have the Cutting
    ability, Game and Off- Balance ....


    " win or loss is how you played the game"

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  17. #10
    cholo a. franco
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    THE KEY

    in the knife, three (3) very important traits are necessary
    for a rooster to have excellent cutting ability :

    1. timing - these are rosters that have very sharp
    eyes and are always focused on every-
    thing that moves around him. he knows
    when and where to hit his opponent.

    2. speed - this is the ability (lightning speed) he
    uses to compliment his timing. as soon
    as he sees the opportunity to strike,
    he does it in very very quick fashion.
    which sometimes leave us wondering,
    how he did it ?

    3. power - after the very good timing, the bullet-
    like speed, comes the power (deep
    cutters). the finale ! and it takes only
    one deep hit, with the lighting speed,
    and aimed/timing at the right area
    for the carreo by the referee to follow.

    some insights from a learning and observant
    probinsyano.


    TEAM EVGBA

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  19. #11
    polegaff
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    A bird coming straight off the tie cord is a cutting machine. Will cut a lot better than one from the pen.

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  21. #12
    Senior Member ironchef's Avatar
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    Excellent cutters do not waste too much motion...often times they hit with good timing,very calculated and deliberate when they strike. Our Beautiful Silver Greys from the late Mamie Lacson has these characteristics, they come blue & green legged, and are very gentle...deadly cutters.

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  23. #13
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    Re: cutting ability

    Quote Originally Posted by xkalibur View Post
    just a while ago (in a different topic) cutfreak (you must have very sharp eyes pare!) said that "some hatches may throw their feet but the strokes are short. It is like the stroke of chopping onions into small bits compared to axing a log".

    most people can describe the fighting traits of the various blodlines but how about their leg action? it's difficult to see the leg action since its just a blur due to speed. however, i am sure there are some people out there who can follow the leg action of their cocks.

    i am now hoping if anyone, anyone with a fast eye! could also describe how the other famous bloodlines throw their feet, this would be of immense interest and of immense value to us. how does a sweater throw its feet? a roundhead? a lemon? a black? a kelso? a butcher? an asil? etc, etc......

    Cutting Ability = the ability of a Game stag/cock to inflict severe or fatal blows every time that it strikes.

    Well bred and cared Game fowl, usually display good cutting ability, unless they have been improperly managed by their feeder, heeler and/or handler.

    Well bred and cared for Games which are properly managed, usually prevail over lesser quality opponents, and even upon equally or superior bred and cared opponents, which are improperly managed in a high % of contests.

    On occasions when matched to equally or superior bred, cared and managed fowl, they might need to resort into their inherited gameness and bottom to prevail.

    Cutting ability is not exclusive of any strain or family of Games.
    Last edited by Yunke8888; September 22nd, 2014 at 03:50 AM.

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  25. #14
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    Re: cutting ability

    Quote Originally Posted by Yunke8888 View Post
    Cutting Ability = the ability of a Game stag/cock to inflict severe or fatal blows every time that it strikes.

    Well bred and cared Game fowl, usually display good cutting ability, unless they have been improperly managed by their feeder, heeler and/or handler.

    Well bred and cared for Games which are properly managed, usually prevail over lesser quality opponents, and even upon equally or superior bred and cared opponents, which are improperly managed in a high % of contests.

    On occasions when matched to equally or superior bred, cared and managed fowl, they might need to resort into their inherited gameness and bottom to prevail.

    Cutting ability is not exclusive of any strain or family of Games.
    Rigorous Selection along with Ruthless Testing & Culling for the desired trait(s)- is essential to maintain or improve it/them.

    yunke8888

  26. #15
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    Re: cutting ability

    Cutting ability is a very important trait.

    Keep the thread going !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  27. #16
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    Re: cutting ability

    Bump it up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

  28. #17
    Senior Member Camarines's Avatar
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    Re: cutting ability

    Cutting ability is interesting to try and watch sparring. But when you compete you find out how well you judged what you saw sparring. I have only SK competition now days. I see cocks that land the first hit in the first buckle and do damage first. But it seems like the first cock to cut second...(confused? does the most damage. Is it because he is in closer and his cutting does the most damage to the vitals? So I always want my cock to hit first, but maybe the more important cutting is the second buckle from inside or from the angle that mortally wounds or kills the other. So if I pit a General cock that moves to the side when rushed and he can hit first and from an angle that does the most damage , my cock can win with very little if any damage. But the Rh/Hatch I have will start kicking at pitting and not stop until they have won or are dead. They never win untouched but they can cut well on the inside. Throwing lots of feet and sacrificing distance to react but gaining position to be able to throw into a mortal area. Just my opinion based on observation.

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  31. #19
    Senior Member spring creek's Avatar
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    Re: cutting ability

    Quote Originally Posted by danitor View Post
    Cutting ability is interesting to try and watch sparring. But when you compete you find out how well you judged what you saw sparring. I have only SK competition now days. I see cocks that land the first hit in the first buckle and do damage first. But it seems like the first cock to cut second...(confused? does the most damage. Is it because he is in closer and his cutting does the most damage to the vitals? So I always want my cock to hit first, but maybe the more important cutting is the second buckle from inside or from the angle that mortally wounds or kills the other. So if I pit a General cock that moves to the side when rushed and he can hit first and from an angle that does the most damage , my cock can win with very little if any damage. But the Rh/Hatch I have will start kicking at pitting and not stop until they have won or are dead. They never win untouched but they can cut well on the inside. Throwing lots of feet and sacrificing distance to react but gaining position to be able to throw into a mortal area. Just my opinion based on observation.
    Danitor what kind of hatch do you use with your roundheads.

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  33. #20
    Senior Member loisbugoy's Avatar
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    Re: cutting ability

    A Cutting Ability, in any type of weapon, when he throw those leg with weapon damage the opponent at any angle.


    HAPPY KASABONG TO ALLLLL..

  34. #21
    Senior Member INCUBUS06's Avatar
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    Re: cutting ability

    Cutting is a must as we all know but, whats most times is left out is "timing" when your lucky to own these "classy cocks" cool collected no wasted motion cutting machines timing cocks they're something else

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  36. #22
    Member danitor's Avatar
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    Re: cutting ability

    Quote Originally Posted by spring creek View Post
    Danitor what kind of hatch do you use with your roundheads.
    My Hatch are 2 families. I have had Hatch from Grady Fields in Oklahoma since the early 1980s. They are straight comb green leg and usually come dark red but once in a while they come a little lighter hackled. I added some Hatch out of Kentucky to freshen the blood about 10 years ago. I also have had Billy Rubles hatch for about 10 years..pea comb blue or green leg.

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  38. #23
    Senior Member spring creek's Avatar
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    Re: cutting ability

    Quote Originally Posted by danitor View Post
    My Hatch are 2 families. I have had Hatch from Grady Fields in Oklahoma since the early 1980s. They are straight comb green leg and usually come dark red but once in a while they come a little lighter hackled. I added some Hatch out of Kentucky to freshen the blood about 10 years ago. I also have had Billy Rubles hatch for about 10 years..pea comb blue or green leg.
    We have had good luck using Gerrard with are Allens trying some blueface this time around

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    Re: cutting ability

    OK we talking cutting ability is it possible to lose the cutting ability from a bro-sis mating? Cuz I think that's wat happened to my sweater s the only good thing I got out of it is that they through tons I mean tons of feet but not at all good cutters.

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  42. #25
    Senior Member Nauvoo's Avatar
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    Re: cutting ability

    Add Radio or RH to them Sweaters. The ones like I raised wanted to get you pushed into the side wall and then they just set in on ya but for as long and hard as they would shuffle they didn't really do what it looked like they shoulda been doing. Breed em 1/2 or 1/4 Radio n it all comes together, RH for the LK n they were tough to live under. Just how I seen it. YFIS Nauvoo

  43. #26
    Senior Member INCUBUS06's Avatar
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    Re: cutting ability

    You can lose cut in a mating, most times you'll be ok but, I've seen it & heard a breeder (bigboy) also heard once you lose it thats it (pure) in dads case it was the hen no cut, fought good, no cut no win (singlemate)

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    Re: cutting ability

    I signal mated bro sis to keep the line going the offspring has more white plumage big boy close to six lbs but he can straight out get it... Lost original to bobcat. Bred the stage to a half sister of him so the out come was 3/4 SW 1/4 hatch but like I said very busy but very poor outcomes.. I was going to put some Clements in them

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  47. #28
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    Re: cutting ability

    Im not going to read all these post, but will say this. In your own barn. Heel up the two roosters in question. Then let them go a couple buckles. Then you can check them and see where and how much they are cutting. Count the amount of strokes thrown. Then count how many wholes you find in them. All your questions are answered this way. In a place that is legal of course

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  49. #29
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    Re: cutting ability

    Quote Originally Posted by shufflehard View Post
    OK we talking cutting ability is it possible to lose the cutting ability from a bro-sis mating? Cuz I think that's wat happened to my sweater s the only good thing I got out of it is that they through tons I mean tons of feet but not at all good cutters.
    IMH: If the parents come from a long line of good cutting ability, more than likely they
    lost the cut somewhere else. A good feeder can only improve them 5-10% max.
    A poor feeder will ruin most everything accomplished from the brood pen to show time.

    The keep is a period of mental conditioning, you can not correct long periods of neglect by overworking them or pumping junk into them. The point & traveling are Arts, that few get to Master and where most ruin all the work & sacrifices of the previous year(s).

    Over heeling is a disastrous mistake in any heel but particularly in the gaff, as they will be striking with the side of the heel, instead of the point or the edge. Heeling and Handling are also arts Mastered by few.

    A cock with superior cutting ability should finish the job in 1-3 pittings.

    The only reason a cock with good cutting ability could go into the drag, is because
    he found his match & both got mauled in the first pitting, otherwise the problem
    is somewhere else.

    Most well bred & cared for cocks that loose a fight, is due to poor feeding, pointing, heeling or handling.

    JMO, enough said.


    yunke8888
    Last edited by Yunke8888; May 7th, 2016 at 05:18 AM.

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  51. #30
    Senior Member Kakahna671's Avatar
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    Re: cutting ability

    Quote Originally Posted by shufflehard View Post
    OK we talking cutting ability is it possible to lose the cutting ability from a bro-sis mating? Cuz I think that's wat happened to my sweater s the only good thing I got out of it is that they through tons I mean tons of feet but not at all good cutters.
    We have to realize that inbreeding intensifies desirable qualities of the broodfowl, as well as, undesirable characteristics and traits and this is where we need to be very careful when inbreeding. So it is possible to lose the cutting ability IMHO.

    Good Luck

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