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Thread: Blueface as Breed by Sweater...

  
  1. #1
    albert c
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    Blueface as Breed by Sweater...

    Sweater Mcguinnis has really had a hand in breeding the Redwine Green legger Blueface Hatch. Fact

    Sweater Mcguinnis never had a hand in breeding the famous Red Yellow Leg Sweater chickens. Fact.

    I believe, between the two Chickens if you were to choose you would choose the yelloow leg Red Sweater over the Wine Red Green Legger Blueface.

    If this is so, pls give us your logical reason what you believe. one over the other. Thanks.

  2. #2
    heel_to_kill
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    yellow legs red sweater,
    because i have fought against some of the origal blueface they were good but slow, hit like a ton of bricks

    now the yl sweater fowl are quicker cut better and more moderen the old time blueface was top of the line when it was created now if the blueface line was origenated now insteed of then it would be concidered junk because it is slow and low headed

  3. #3
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    You have not seen the same bluefaces fight that I have. I have both lines and my bluefaces can hold their own with the Sweaters and do so in the pit as well. My Bluefaces have a higher wine % in the gaff than my sweaters, and equal the Sweaters win% in the LK and SK. Some breeders have Bluefaces bred for modern day fighting having upper medium to high station legs with better than average speed. I have seen more than one breeder in the U.S. with exceptional Bluefaces and if they where considered junk, you would not have them being bred and still winning.

    Fact: Sweater did breed the Bluefaces but not the Sweaters, the orginal broodcock used by Cecil Davis and Walter Kelso did come from Sweater, but was actually bred and raised by Harold brown.

    Fact: Sweaters will have to be fought and win with better success in the gaff before I will say they are better and that is not what I have seen to this point. Later in the week I will post a picture of one of my Blueface stags on the yard and you will see, he is not built like the old style, short legged slow Bluefaces.

  4. #4
    Ugly_Stik_9
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    It really depends.
    If in the case Boy Marzo releasing a blue face versus a yellow legged Sweater by someone not as reputable as him on a WSC match, I would bet on the dark legged.

    Plumage/leg color is only secondary. The breeder/handler first.

  5. #5
    heel_to_kill
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    i ment the origenals line bred to stay the, same as they were as when they left sweaters hands, in that case the yl sweaters are better.

    now days evey one has god fowl regaurdless of what breed everyone who fights the majior compition has good fowl whether its gl blureface or yl sweater

  6. #6
    Underhack
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    From another site

    As for history , this is what I have
    Lum Gilmore got a cock from Ted McClean, it was a small stationed cock ran around Gilmore place for some time and there were no hens with him. He was said to be a hard hitter, and when cockers stopped by they sparred him to show how hard he could hit. When sparred or exerted in any way he turned blue in the face, hence the name Blue Face. Sweater McGinins was around Gilmore's place at Bay City, Texas at the time, he finally brought over one of his Madigin Regular Grey hens as company for the cock. Some stags and pullets were raised from that mating, sometime before that two hens were stolen from Hatch on Long Island and given to Sweater, and not long after that Sweater was inducted into the service. He put the two Hatch hens with E.W. Law to keep for him until he returned, when he got out, he immediately got in touch with Law to get the hens. Law told him one had died, but he sent Sweater the other one. One of the 1/2 Grey 1/2 Blue Face Cock was bred to the stolen Hatch hen and the progeny of that mating were known as the Blue Face Fowl...

  7. #7
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    Thats correct based on what I read. I think its history of game strains that has the History of the Bluefaces as you wrote above.

  8. #8
    Senior Member janrich's Avatar
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    Nice Info guys...

  9. #9
    Underhack
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    Does this cross sound familiar? I think the entry of sammy is breeding the same way as well from what I hear he got a hatch /grey of Bob Bennet and breed to there hatch hens .I just watched the new wsd dvds Emoy and Boy were talking about how people are infusing these good greys in there lines. These guys were cracking me up to very funny. Alot of people will be quick to put down grey and though at pure might not be the best but they lay the foundation through the way they have been breed for the gaff and to have that rigorous gameness,will, and overall the bottom.

  10. #10
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    Here is my Blueface. This family has produced many multi time winners in the LK and SK. This a baby stag only 5 month old. I used this picture to show you the station and body you can obtain by selective breeding over a period of time.


    [IMG][/IMG]

  11. #11
    albert c
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    Nice blue face you got there, Kelker. Very promising stag.

  12. #12
    Member sambulat's Avatar
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    from alabama mcguinnis blueface (paleface)

    cross with tjt's lemon 84 and offsprings are my candidates to cf, sn mateo and ubba stag derbies this year (picture taken when she's in molt)


  13. #13
    albert c
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    Beautiful Bro Sam... Couldn't say anything more.

  14. #14
    albert c
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    The story goes in one sentence...Sweater brought a YLH to Walter Kelso and Walter said to his breeder Cecil Davis to breed it with Walter Kelso hens 5 of them, then the Kelso stag taken from this breed again breed it to his mother kelso hen. So what comes out were 3/4 kelso and 1/4 YLH from Sweater.

    Anybody can duplicate the same process but will it be called "SWEATER" and same ability?

    Others would say call it what you want...but that is not the point.
    If suman is made of sweat rice and coco milk basically...naturally you dont call it to ypour customer you are selling pan de sal? Your customer would look at you and say some nasty things at you.

  15. #15
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    This thread is actually referring to the Sweater Mcguinnis Blueface Hatch.

    As far as the "Sweater" line is concerned;



    According to Carol NeSmith, Harold Brown sold Sweater the yellow legged brothers from a Boston Roundhead-Hatch cross. Harold kept the green legged cocks for his own use. The cocks Harold sold Sweater where great. Walter Kelso seen them fight and purchase one of the cocks at pit side and sent it to Cecil Davis to Breed over his Kelso hens. Cecil also bred the daughters back to the cock several times. So, the Sweater breeding is actually mostly a Boston Roundhead-Hatch blend with a slight Kelso influence. I am basing this information on an article published by Grit and Steel, written by Mr. NeSmith.

  16. #16
    lord_spyblack
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    looking/hearing this argument for a long longgg
    time!!!

    What a hell is going on here????

    are you guys not true with this???







    ___________________
    normal people scare me..

  17. #17
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    Considering Carol NeSmith's history with the Sweaters and friendship with Johnnie Jumper, I believe what Carol wrote.

  18. #18
    CyberFriends Pinolim's Avatar
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    Friend lord_ not all of the readers have the same opportunity as you have to have read these issues in previous postings. If you feel tired, and sick and bored with other people's postings, then skip these parts of this site and go elsewhere, that way, your time will not be wasted.
    Please don't be mean to people who share ideas and people who were fortunate to be able to get the information, even though the information is a recycled one.
    I don't have enough opportunity to visit this site as often as you do because I work 2 jobs, that's why I'm grateful that people recycled this information.
    Please share with us what you know instead of criticizing the postings here.

  19. #19
    canelo413
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    Blueface

    I have the old pale faced Blueface and i also have some nesmith sweater blood... Will take the Blueface over the sweater ANY day. The Blueface has bottom and power that can not be matched, plus better then average speed and cutt. For me, the Blueface is #1... but thats just me

  20. #20
    albert c
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    KELKER... Very informative posting. Thanks for sharing it with us.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Camarines's Avatar
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    Re: Blueface as Breed by Sweater...

    The Origin of the Blue Face Hatch
    By Jack Powers
    The following is written for express purpose of adding light to the Origin of the Ted McLean Blue Face Hatch, and also to the breeding of the Sweater McGuinnis Blue Face Hatch.

    The information which I am about to disclose, was relayed to me by people involved directly, namely, Heinie Mathesius and Sweater, both of who could be considered tops in our sport.

    Everyone must agree that Ted McLean was the founder of the strain which has become so popular, that hundreds of breeders have infused the blood into their favorite fowl, to improve their power and cutting ability.

    While returning from the Lally Memorial, in Scranton, PA., (where Sweater had just won 9-1). My party and I met Heinie Mathesius at a diner in Milford, PA, and the conversation, naturally, was about the remarkable stags Sweater had shown.

    During the conversation, and comments, Heinie told the story about the start of the McLean Blueface. He stated that he had received a phone call from Ted McLean, asking him if he had a green legged cock which he could send down to him in Maryland, as he wanted to try one over a green legged hen. Mr. McLean was a personal friend of Mr. Hatch and had been breeding Hatch fowl for many years having spent many of his boyhood years at Mr. Hatch’s place, on Long Island, NY.
    As it so happened, Heinie was preparing a main of cocks for Mr. Hatch, and among them was a green legged cock that was apparently healthy in every way, but while working on the bench, would turn blue in the head. Heinie stated that he shipped this cock to Mr. McLean and he was mated to a green legged hen. The result was the McLean Blue Face Hatch which became so successful.


  22. #22
    Senior Member Camarines's Avatar
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    Re: Blueface as Breed by Sweater...

    In regards to the Sweater Blue Face Hatch, when Sweater came from Oklahoma to work for Percy Flowers, he brought with him several hens, of the Whitehackle type that Mr. Hatch had brought with him several hens, of the Whitehackle type that Mr. Hatch had fought so successfully for many years at Troy, NY and other places. I do not know the breeding of those fowl, but apparently they were heavy in Whitehackle blood. As they were bright red in feather and carried white in their wings and tail. They were dead game fowl and won many battles after being severely injured. The only fault they had, they were inclined to be low headed.

    Sweater was able to obtain a Blue Face cock from Mr. McLean and he mated this cock from Mr. McLean to some of the hens (Hatch hens) that he had brought with him to Mr. Percy Flowers place. This cock was known as Old Long Tail, as his streamer’ nearly reached the ground.

    Sweater told Earl Mull, a close friend of mine, that one of his Hatch hens mated to Old Long /Tail, produced stags which held their heads high, and the offspring of this mating were his Blue Face.

    I believe the offspring of this mating were probably the greatest fighting machines I have ever had the pleasure of witnessing, as I saw them win the Lally Memorial, in Scranton, PA on two different occasions, winning with a score of 9-1, and hundred of cockers throughout the country are fortunate enough to have winning fowl, which carry some Blue Face blood.
    (The Gamecock, October 1982)

  23. #23
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    Re: Blueface as Breed by Sweater...

    thanks all informative read,blueface have always been my #1 pick and have done very well with them when legal.

  24. #24
    Senior Member Windwalker's Avatar
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    Re: Blueface as Breed by Sweater...

    sweater always had green legged roosters reds and greys,then all the sudden he introduced the yellow legged hatch,where do you think that yellow legged blood came from

  25. #25
    Member BiggHemi's Avatar
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    Re: Blueface as Breed by Sweater...

    Nice thread keep em coming. Really like all the stories

  26. #26
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    Re: Blueface as Breed by Sweater...

    There's a Harry Parr version of the creation of the Blueface. I hope someone can post it here.

  27. #27
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    Re: Blueface as Breed by Sweater...

    Iam a fan of the green legs so i would go with the blueface insted with the yl sweater

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