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Thread: North Briton WhiteHackle...

  1. #31
    Senior Member ironchef's Avatar
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    This is a Specimen of our Irish WhiteHackle-Mclean Hatch BattleCross.


  2. #32
    Member daredevil's Avatar
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    IRISH KEARNEY WHITEHACKLE

    THIS IS OUR IRISH KEARNEY WHITEHACKLE FROM WILL (ROUNDHEAD)ALLEN
    Attached Images Attached Images

  3. #33
    Senior Member WT AVALON's Avatar
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    I just send 2 Trios' of Kearney Whitehackle in the Phil. to
    upgrade my bloodlines, and cross them with my BB Sweater,
    Roundhead and Kelso... picture is coming next... cheers...


    Yfis...
    www.carsonfarm.com

  4. #34
    Senior Member darwin's Avatar
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    WT AVALON;
    ARE U KONG NOEL DIMATULAC?

  5. #35
    Member daredevil's Avatar
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    whitehackle story

    HERES A STORY ON THE WHITEHACKLES BY UNCLE EZRA (LOU ELLIOT) IN THE GAMECOCK AUGUST AND SEPTEMBER ISSUE OF 2005.THESE WHITEHACKLES I GOT ARE FROM WILL ALLEN.WHATS THE ODDS THIS BEING THE SAME BLOOD THEY CALLED THE BOSTON ROUNDHEAD?SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT.THERES A PICTURE OF ONE IN THE SAME BOOK ON PAGE 74. www.daredevilgamefarm.com

  6. #36
    Senior Member spring creek's Avatar
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    Re: darwin

    Quote Originally Posted by INCUBUS06 View Post
    i hate to burst your bubble but all pure whitehackles are 100%straightcomb now there is such a thing as a low comb but not a peacomb in this breed.
    I did read in an old article when the Whitehackle was ship to the US some were pea comb but I have never seen one.

  7. #37
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    Re: darwin

    Quote Originally Posted by spring creek View Post
    I did read in an old article when the Whitehackle was ship to the US some were pea comb but I have never seen one.
    I found this while researching the Whitehackles and thought it may offer some answers, it comes from a long time member of the Oxford club in UK.........


    Some argue that pea combs did occur in old England, I dont know, I wasnt there. Boston round heads were exported to US as a p. comb. You say 'native' English fowl, there are none in the true sense all fowl were brought here even in prehistory, it is the 'Indoeuropean' races who have fowl. Fowl would have been traded since before recorded history. All we can say is the predominant type was str, comb. An Asil blend might work if bred back to Bankiva type for hundreds of generations, I would not know . or be inclined to try. There are a great many straight bred British fowl in the US, they have gone back an forth since the place was discovered, with no cross of any thing in them. Whkles are a good example, there are many diff, families to interbreed. Dont be fooled by just what you see in public. There are many breeders who would never consider a cross or the long knife

    Now about these p combs where did they originate? are they not a mutation of single comb ? do they occur in the wild if so where ? who is to say if they are good or bad ? is it not an asumption to say they are an asil cross ? they may be so or not , they often are. All fowl originate from asia, when did the first roundheads ever come here ? [UK] Asil are Game fowl, just a different type, an Asil cross is still a game cock, we know the blends dont breed on, with a fixed % Asil, but if an Asil x is bred back to a millionth part but still has a p head why does it matter if he can still do his job, his brother could be straight combed and could show under rules, this would be a nonsense. All that mattered in jolly old England was could he win, in silver heels, long, short, sharp, blunt, steel regs, or drops or what ever?
    Who would care? . Dureya Whitehackles were p. combed, read Fulldrop he says they were a figment of O'Connors warped mind. We cannot know, all such is retrospective speculation, Whkls were bred here by Barnes & Mitchel and Lohman right here where I am, a blend of L. Derby Reds, Lancashire Fowl, and the Cumberland North Country Cocks and exported to US by Gilkerson and Lohman Jr. All those birds were straight heads any thing else must be an addition. If a p. combed bird is stiff coby and coarse I will ignore him in a show, if he is smart, corky and handy, I will consider him along with the others.. All I ask is [if we were in a legal state] could he win at 4.12 in 1,1/2 regs.......
    ...somethings to consider.....N.B..

    These Phoenician traders, yes we know they came here in ancient times and traded with the Cornish, it may be they brought the Asil types with them, I do not see any reason to give them credit for introducing fowl in the first place. Our neolithic ancestors, 'proto celts', came from .'Sythea'[Baltic] went E&W via N Europe, Brittany,Portugal. They came here as 'Celt Iberians' to Cornwall and up the West coast to Scotland & Ireland. Along this route they brought Dogs, Cattle, and Chickens. This ties in with your 2609yr old chicken...British,Irish & Spanish are all pretty simillar and of the same basic stock.
    ...As for the Butchers they were of course bred out of the 'North Briton' WhiteHackles. For me these N.B. Whkles are the archetypal best of British OEG ever bred,ever,ever,ever !!

    The Whitehackles are a medium weight fowl, the breast black streaked more or less heavily with dark ginger, the outer hackle a light red shading to light golden on the shoulders, the back a dark crimson, the wing long, wide and low, the tail wide and carried up, the shanks short and yellow, the body wide and the head short and broad with red eyes and a thin single comb and white under feather. The hens are always wheaten color. As fighters, the cocks were high headed, fast enough and game beyond the test of steel
    .
    Origin of the Ylg McLean Hatch,
    In the early thirties, Mr. E.S. Hatch and Mr. E.T. McLean were on the floor of the stock exchange. That Mr. Hatch gave Ted McLean fowl is the testimony enough of their friendship, as it is well known that Mr. Hatch did not let many go. At the time, Mr. Hatch’s fowl consisted of four basic bloodlines. These were the Kearney fowl made up of the two strains Mike Kearny brought from Ireland, namely (1) the “beasy” Breasted Light Reds (Whitehackles) and (2) the Brown Breasted Reds, plus (3) the Herman Duryea fowl (commonly called Boston Roundheads) which he added when he worked for Mr. Duryea. With these bloodlines Mr. Hatch incorporated (4) the green leg Thomson (Jim Thomson) fowl. I might say here that from then till now, the strain made up of these four bloodlines is what Ted and I call the “straight stuff”.
    In those days virtually all the fighting in the North East was done in inch and a quarter, heavy, slow heels, which is not surprising considering the cockers prime requisite, was gameness. It followed the toughness and power was high priorities and the Hatch fowl had all these in abundance
    .
    Butchers: The Butchers are the result of a cross between Marsh Speeders and Groves Whitehackles in 1915 and by 1920 were set as a strain. Through selective breeding the Butchers come black-red with a straight comb, white and yellow legs, and have red, orange and lemon colored hackles. Additionally their breasts may have red flecks. About 5% of our Butchers will come spangled. The hens will come wheaton and partridge in color and about 1/3 will have spurs.
    The Butchers are known primarily as head and neck cutters as that is what is needed in short heel fighting, but they can and do cut very well to the body. In addition they are known as good side steppers.
    .
    Speeders: The Speeders were originated by Phil Marsh in 1890 and received the name "Speeder" on Decoration Day in 1900 at a main vs. Jim McHugo when McHugo remarked "ain't they speedy little devils." A sailor got two pair of fowl in the Dominican Republic and while returning to New York aboard ship one of the roosters was knocked overboard and lost while being sparred. The remaining rooster and two hens were brought to Fort Plain.
    These fowl came grey, blue and pyle in color with dark legs, balck eyes, and straight combs. Phil purchased a hen from Burnell Shelton of Mississippi. She had a rose comb, drak legs, and eyes. This hen was bred to one of the grey Dominican stags and the fowl from this mating came grey, blue-grey, and brown-red with dark legs and eyes. A few years later Phil purchased a blue-grey rooster from Earl Walrath of Fort Plain. This rooster was bred on the daughters of the first mating of the Shelton hen and Dominican stag. Through years of selective breeding the rose comb was eliminated. The Speeders come grey and brown-red with dark legs and eyes. They are known as excellent cutting fowl.

    These McLean Hatch come yellow legged,and single comb. The hens are wheaten or partridge, and the cocks are red. They vary in shades from dark mahogany to light reds with white under hackles and white in wings and tail. The latter are usually single comb yellow legged, reverting back to the Kearney Whitehackles. Most of the cocks' breasts are flecked with brown and quite a few come with lemon hackles at the shoulders.
    Common opinion here is that those asill of old were not 100% game in steel and if the blood was kept it was bred away from. It is a bit of a sweeping statement to say all UK birds were crossed, no record of any p. comb in any North British strains ever. Hutt says that all fowl can be bred up or down in size by selection, in just a few generations. The first truly steel game Asil brought here were the Atkinson Asil brought from Luknow,[ C. 1900 ?] bred by Lyons of Alahabad, got into the US via Canada by Wheeler of Vancouver, then to the Boles Bros.
    .
    This argument seems to be going on in other places as well...again I say it is retrospective speculation, and of no real consequence...What is important is how have they been bred this last decade and what are they like NOW !!
    .
    many Irish gamefowl show pea comb or other Asil characters nobody would ever know where it came from...
    original Blackhakles were Jarvis Elise fowl from Dr Belleyse Brn Reds [UK]..to Ireland and US.
    .
    White hackle characteristics.
    For all practical purposes the following description of that family of fowl should suffice. A light red or spangle cock, the red usually showing some white in the wings or tail and both the spangles and reds cutting out white in the hackle, that is if the hackle is lifted, it will be white underneath. White or yellow legs and beak and always with a straight comb. There are probably more single stroke fowl among the White hackles than any other fowl with the exception of Orientals and their crosses. A few families were practically all single stroke, others less so.
    There have been slight variations in the color of White hackles at various times and they looked and fought like pure White hackles. Whether the color variations came from outside blood or not I do not know. There have been canary colored White hackles and some with slight ginger cast. When they come blues and black-grays, brown reds, and whites they are definitely not White hackles regardless of how they fight.
    Some people call the Hatch fowl White hackles but they are wrong. Most typical Hatch fowl are dark reds with yellow or green legs showing little or no white in either wings, tail or hackle. And the best of the Hatch bloodlines show a considerable number of Roundheads. This comes from the Oriental blood in them and that came from so-called Duryea blood bred by Mike Kearney and through him to Hatch. It might come as a surprise to many to hear there never was a family of fowl rightly called Duryea White hackles. That name was applied to the Roundhead fowl bred by Mike Kearney for and with Herman Duryea by the late A.P. O'Conor of Dorsey, Maryland. Why he applied that name to these Roundhead fowl is anyone's guess but you can be sure it was mercenary in nature.
    ...by Fulldrop...1968
    .
    the Brassback that occur in the Whkles are the original Furness Fowl from Furness Cumbria [N.Britain] UK ..the name was corrupted to Furnace by showmen
    None of us can realy know how a chicken is bred, we only know what we are told,which may or not be true. No family can be inbred forever, all must need an out cross some time or other. If a partridge bred cock was used, then in the future some may come with a 'mousy' underfeather. In an ideal world all Whitehackles by definition should have white underfeather. Purity is not a virtue in it self . they could be pure junk...
    This writen by 'Stormer'
    .
    The black country Rosecombs by D Siviter.

    ..."In closing my remarks on sub varieties of game, I must mention the Rosecombs. thease used to be plentiful in the black country in Duckwings, Reds and Greaseys. they were the first sort I ever bred on my own. they had a flat, finely worked Rosecomb, were a good game shape, caried a good heel and nothing could be gamer under any and every trial. mine were chiefly yellow legged and of medium station. in passing I will state that the last success of the late John Harris had, was with a blue brested Rosecomb stag, bred by the writer in my early early youth. John fought his last main at morlbury when he lost to his intimate friends he was known by the nickname "BELCHER"

    That is 100% correct & that is what I have been trying to tell you, over here [UK] every strain's physical features & fighting achievements was documented for centuries. Thats why if they were any Pea combes strains, they would have been documented. There were no Pea comb strains & out of all the Game strains, only one was Rose comb. All the rest were 100% Single comb.

    The black country Rose combs (aka Low combs) died out in England in the Early 20th century, but some English Game went to Spain in the 19th century, the Rose comb only appeared in Spanish Game after English Game was exported to Spain, before that all Spanish Game were 100% Single comb.

    The English Rose comb, is belived to have been developed from a cross with the Dutch/Belgium Oriental type shake bags, thease type of birds were in England for about 500 years, Gervase Markham who wrote a book on Game fowl 400 years ago mentions them, back then they were called "turn pokes". A 100 years later Robert Howlett, also mentions them, he said that some of them were over 10-lb & upto 40 inches tall. Thease Rose comb Oriental type shakebags can still be found around the Netherlands & in Belgium.
    Dont know much about Blackhackles, hearsay is that they were Dr. Belleyse Brn Rds taken to Ireland by L. Dunoon [?]...I seem to remember an article by Gus Frithiof in the Gamecock a long time ago, about the history of the Redquills, Was not Jarvis Ellis 'Tommy the Sweep's' son in law ,he took them [Bhkles] to the US from the UK. I have the piece somewhere it would take a month to find it.

  8. #38
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    Re: OLD ENGLISH GAME(WHITEHACKLE)

    Quote Originally Posted by darwin View Post
    PHOTO TAKEN IN ENGLAND ,BROTHER OF THE OTHER COCK (ACE BUSH FIGHTER)WHITE LEGS.



    only want to share:hippie:[IMG][/IMG]
    Do you have any birds originating from England I would love to buy some or if you have any connect for any of them definitely interested

    Sent from my LM-X210(G) using Tapatalk

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    Re: North Briton WhiteHackle...

    Have you ever seen a North Briton Whitehackle / Boston RoundHead cross? I guarantee they'll put down any blood you fight right now.

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    Re: North Briton WhiteHackle...

    Quote Originally Posted by BRH Noel View Post
    Have you ever seen a North Briton Whitehackle / Boston RoundHead cross? I guarantee they'll put down any blood you fight right now.
    John Sears Sr. called these crosses "Red Bombers" (JS-NB Whitehackle/Boston RH-Smart, Speedy, deadly cutters, Power hitters as John would say in his day), I had good luck with these, when I didn't screw them up back years ago, only issue i had with them was they came small about 4.6 max once pointed, but awesome chickens! the pure Bostons where almost unbeatable in regulation short heel and quick scoring (2-3 Pittings)

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