July 7th, 2005, 11:07 AM
How is Lance dela Torre and jesry Palmares doing with their Cowan Roundheads?
July 8th, 2005, 06:33 AM
i believe lancey has been crossing to his boston for breeding purposes, last yr picked up a trio 3/4 cowan & 1/4 boston plus an extra bullstag, sounds to me like you will be seeing a lemon/cowan/boston. i got the extra bullstag for my hatchet & velcro.
July 8th, 2005, 06:46 AM
Are cowans like Allen roundheads?Are they yellow legged?
July 8th, 2005, 01:53 PM
I believe that Cowans came from the Allen RH line! They both come yellow and white legs.
July 8th, 2005, 09:13 PM
a friend of mine got the cowan rh x boston rh from lance last may. a winner at bakbakan derby. hope to b able to spar it tomm., heheeh...
July 9th, 2005, 03:10 AM
been to lancey`s farm last may and i saw his c rh x b rh spar and they are awesome. definitely one of the bloodline i would like to acquire in future......bit pricey though but i think its well worth the price to have!
July 9th, 2005, 04:46 AM
I am hopefully fielding my cowans crossed w/ sweater, cardinal,
g.guillam rhd and hatches this coming 2005 bakbakan stag derby., Good luck you guys!!!:hippie:
July 9th, 2005, 01:01 PM
I 'd been winnning with them since 2001...
July 9th, 2005, 01:15 PM
they are awesome..............but they say.............the claret side.......in his roundhead-claret battlefowl...........is what makes the line ........formidable.
August 7th, 2005, 05:34 PM
i believe that cowan and alabama are just the same they come yellow leg and white leg. but H.H. cowan and T.K. bruner call it alabama.
August 8th, 2005, 12:18 AM
cowan roundhead comes out white legged and sometimes dark red or light red in color...they are pea comb..if they comes out yellow legged they are not pure cowan.they are cross to allen..coz allen comes out yellow legs.... i bought cowan from the satelite breeder of steve s. they are awesome...but the price is not cheap as compare to the other breeds.it is special price.... :
August 8th, 2005, 09:25 AM
what make you think your right
did any body post here what is the history of the cowan roundhead? did you know that all roundhead come from allen? i think you need to research more sources not just the satelite of steve but try to talk to steve or his father he might inlighten you about that. steve father call it alabama. what i gather from the old breeder. cowan and T.K. brunner made it. the old breeders call it alabama. i may be wrong but i'll research more about these line (cowan).
August 8th, 2005, 12:48 PM
i didn't know that cowan RH comes in white feet. Info that I have read so far claims that they are cross between a gull and brunner RH ( basically an Allen RH). in this case Junior's Cowan RH are not pure, is that right? I have never seen a cowan RH white legged. please enlighten me, thank you.
August 8th, 2005, 01:50 PM
its not a bruner but alabama RH. coz bruner is made out of alabama. T.K. bruner made alabama. bruner line is made by willis holding. Mr. bruner call his line a alabama. cowan is made out of alabama line. i think the yellow legged alabama.
August 8th, 2005, 11:35 PM
Cowan RH and Alabama RH are the same. They are both yellow and white legged, since the original Allen RH were both yellow and white legged. So were the Gulls that were crossed onto the Allens. Cowan also added new Grist Grady blood (one of the foundations of the original Allens) later on. When Cowan and Bruner fought them in Tennesee, they were called the Alabama RH by the locals.
by H.H Cowan & T.K. Bruner (1924)
This story begins 45 years ago when I was born into the chicken game and which I have played in its every phase. I have bought, fed, fought, heeled and handled cocks of many different strains and crosses, and probably have done as much experimenting as any man of my years. It is my opinion that there is no one best strain of fowl and no one best feeder, but there are many of both in class "A" and when you make a main nowadays for real money you are sure to meet them. It seems the days of monopoly in the cocking game have passed, which I attribute to renewed interest in the sport and the increased flow of money and brains into the game.
I do not claim to have originated the best strain of the pit games in the world in my Alabama Roundheads, but the fact that they have won the majority of their fights and kept pace with the ever-increasing speed of the game for the past twenty years, under all rules and any length of gaff, is very gratifying.
For the past several years I have done most of my fighting at Memphis, Tenn., where my fowl were known as Alabama Cocks, thus theur name Alabama Roundheads. My fowl have passed the experimental stage, having their characteristics inbred into them, and I feel with my system of breeding I can hold them at their present standard for years to come.
Many years ago when Mr. Allen and Mr. Shelton were defeating all opposition with their great strain of Roundheads, I attended just about all the mains and tournaments in which they were entered, forming an acquaintance and finally friendship with Mr. Shelton, as he was a man whom to know was to like, being one of those old time Southern gentlemen-sportsmen who at one time so characterized the gentility of the Old South. In his passing the fraternity lost one of its great uplifters and the South one of its best citizens. Through this association I became familiar with the history and breeding of the Allen Roundheads and secured my first of these from Mr. Shelton, personally, when at their best, and of his best. I fought them pure for a number of years. From my knowledge of the Allen Roundheads they were originated from a Saunders Roundhead cock bred over Col. Grist Grady hens and then bred closely to the Sauders side. I was breeding and fighting these Roundheads continuously each season and it gradually became apparent to me that they were being bred a bit too close to cope with the strong, rough cocks they were having to meet. It is my opinion, from both experience and observation, that the old time Allen Roundheads with their smart side-stepping tactics and phenomenal sparring qualities and rapid straight hip blows while in the air, could best most cocks they met in the early stages of the battle.
I think this excellent quality was their chief asset and enabled them to make one of the best, if not the best, pit records of any Southern strains. But in the latter stages of battle, when it came down to a give-and-take, I have never thought they excelled, and I was convinced that if they were to keep pace with the game and maintain their record they must be bred to fight as efficiently when the battle came down to a "tug of war" as in the beginning of a fight. I made several unsuccessful experiments with this end in view, but I kept on trying and about fifteen years ago I became acquainted with the great characteristics of the old time Mahoney Gull fowl, with their desperate gameness, strong constitutions and deadly heel. These being the qualities I wished to add to the already great fighting qualities of the Allen Roundheads, I decided to make an infusion of this blood. I secured a royally bred Gull cock of the old school, through friendship with a source whence no one has ever been able to buy a feather to my knowledge, and bred him over my Roundhead hens.
The Gulls being a yellow and white leg strain of black breasted reds with few exceptions of medium station, the type and color was only slightly changed from this cross; but the plumage was longer and much improved. The plumage of the Gull fowl is of a marked characteristic, consisting of a very broad feather extremely lomg and with a quill of whale-bone toughness. Such plumage enables a cock to be fought several times during a season in good feathers.
The first cross were strong, tough and desperately game. I bred back to the Roundhead side, fighting and testing them. Each year's breeding showed an improvement over the preceding one, and kept this up until they again were back to the Roundhead type, showing all the old time fighting qualities of the Allen Roundheads, yet this was backed by strength and endurance, making them more efficient cocks at any stage of battle.
It is my experience that any cocks must have the ability and inhibition to go all the way, as well as great scoring or starting, in order to hold their own in cock fighting of the present day. I fought them with fair success a few years and studied them closely, and finally reached the conclusion that their ability to strike rapidly and efficiently from any angle when in close quarters could be improved upon. Knowing this quality to be one of the outstanding characteristics of the Grist Gradys their foundation stock, I made a fresh infusion of this old reliable blood.
I secured a cock that proved to be of the right sort and his produce were deep game and he imparted the quality I had aimed at to a marked degree, without the loss of any other essential quality. Thye proved to be a real combination fighting cocks, efficient at any stage of battle, which their record shows. By inbreeding anfd line breeding to the outstanding individuals for the past 12 years these qualities have been stamped into them, until they come uniform in type and action. The Alabam Roundheads are practically of the same color and type as the Allen Roundheads. Cocks are black breasted reds with white or yellow legs, but a pumpkin or a deep cherry red or a spangle occurs occasionally, as well as both straight and pea-combs. The hens come from light buff to wheaten, occasionally a green or dark legged fowl will appear among the offspring. All these slight variations come honestly from their foundation blood; the green or dark legs from the Redquill in the Gradys, and the straight combs from both the Gulls and Gradys. However, the largest proportion of them come with white and yellow legs, pea-combs and in color black breasted reds.
For the past eight years I have done most of my fighting at Memphis, Tenn., in combination with Bruner and Herron. Bruner doing all the honors in the cock house and pit. I consider him a fine judge of a cock and among the best feeders in the South. He knows what to expect of a cock, and if they had not been right in every respect he would have found it out several years ago and passed them up. He tests nearly every loser and they have to be right for ihm or he has no use for them. He has been breeding the Alabama Roundheads ten years and has greatly assisted me in bringing these fowl to their present state of excellence by his help and advice in selecting brood fowl from the performance of the cocks in the pit. Mr. Bruner has conditioned and fought more of these cocks possibly than any other man, knows them through and through, as he has practically lived in the cock house with them for the past several years.
August 11th, 2005, 09:21 AM
Thanks, for providing the H.H. Cowan and T. K. Brunner written commentary about the history of the Cowan Roundhead. This is also found in the book, History of Game Strains, by W. T. Johnson and Frank Holcomb. I hope this clears the record behind the Cowan Round, because I hate to see a lot of the misinformation circulated by word of mouth or being posted at various net sites that if a Cowan Round comes wl, it is a cross or if a straight comb happens to appear, its a cross.
I hope this will educate many about the history of the Cowan Roundhead.
August 16th, 2005, 08:02 AM
breeders and contact no. ?
August 16th, 2005, 11:07 AM
what u mean probably cowan RH intstead of cowan rd...
try jesry palmares & lancey dela torre
August 16th, 2005, 11:09 AM
thamks thor p i mean cowan rh sorry. may i know the no. of mayor jp
August 16th, 2005, 11:41 AM
cw RH feet color
acquired trio of cowan....personally select and picked ...
my obserbation.....mostly yellow feet, peacomb, body conformation like football, face like an eagle, mostly short beak..
feather color comes with light but to whom i got his choice were the dark ones...some comes speckeled(would u believe?).....
from steve st....if feet color is white....understandable that he crossed with his claret
August 16th, 2005, 10:02 PM
No problem, Brokewing. Just sharing what I have.
I also read that Bruner RH and Bruner are not the same. Bruner RH is more or less Cowan or Alabama RH, as the story above indicated. But Bruner is a different strain set by someone named Willis (who received all of TK Bruner's fowls after his death) to dedicate to the memory of the great TK Bruner.
August 17th, 2005, 10:37 AM
check this link
history of alabama RH and the Bruner RH.
i hope you guy to be inlighten.
Post Thanks / Like - 0 Thanks, 1 Likes
August 17th, 2005, 12:33 PM
I hope we can now agree that the Cowan RH were made out of Allen RH foundation and that Cowan infused a little Mohoney Gull and Grist Grady to his RH. Furthermore, the Cowan RH and the Alabama RH are one and the same.
I also would like to add for the record that W. L. Allen had two yards of Allen RH in the beginning, per his letter that can be found in the History of Game Strains:
"For my original cock of this family, I'm indebted to Dr. Saunders of Salem, Mass. I paid him the highest price ever paid for a game cock in America. I took this cock and bred him to a Grist yellow leg Grady, raised four stags and seven pullets, bred the cock back to his daughter, each season, line breeding his until his offspring were only 1/8th or 1/16th Grady and the balance RH. By this method I increased size, station and bone and muscle. They nearly all came yellow-legged and beaks, rh, often white in the wing and tail, bright reds and sometimes a spangle. The old cock was a spangle. I then got from Mr. John M. Vines, of Jefferson, Texas, a very old cocker, three hens of his in-bred Cripple Tone Family. These hens were dark fowls and legs. I bred the original RH to these hens. The cross was a hit, and kept breeding back to the RH side. This stock often throws a dark leg pullet or stag, coming, of course from the Cripple Tony blood.
They come white and yellow legs and un from 4.8 to 6.8. The hens of this family are the smallest of any game fowl known to me."
We also know that Cowan and T. K. Bruner were very good friends and T. K. Bruner conditioned and fought many of the Cowan RH. I also believe that the Bruner RH is nothing more than the Cowan RH, but that T. K. Bruner bred to the white leg side. Just before T. K. Bruner's death he left his wife with instructions to ship to his friend, Willis Holding, a special yard of his Cowan RH. Mr. Holding bred them as pure as when he got them from Mrs. Bruner and he called them Bruner RH. Mr. Holding then shared them with Smith, Poole, and today just a few actually have the authentic Bruner RH. Those that do have them get a blue leg pullet from time time, possibly a throw back to the Cripple Tony in their pedigree. The Bruner RH have been good to cross with other families. I know Smith and B. Abbott won Copper State with Bruner crosses.
September 25th, 2005, 03:44 PM
any experience on this bloodline?who has them here in PI?
September 25th, 2005, 04:03 PM
try jesry palmares ng iloilo.
September 25th, 2005, 05:09 PM
I do not think that there are a lot of them who got breeding pairs or trios of cowans. Most got stags or cocks only. So they have used it as an infusion only at 1/2. But who knows after years they could be line breeding it back generation after generation to get more of the cowan blood.
lancy dela torre
Are some breeders who has used them
September 27th, 2005, 11:04 PM
just wanna ask if what type of hatch and reds did jesry used. cause last sunday i watched tukaan and jesry was the feature breeder. and i was just greatly amazed by his stags being sparred.. it was terrific and throws a lot of feet in any angle.. like 60 caliber machine gun.. is that a kelso of boby fairchild???
September 28th, 2005, 05:23 AM
I had them since 2000 and so far they are doing good for me
"NONE FOR SALE"....
September 28th, 2005, 09:30 AM
Maning, what do you cross your cowans too, i've got them from lance (3/4 cowan & 1/4 boston), interested in how you breed them. jim
September 28th, 2005, 02:19 PM
hi maning! are your cowans pure?where do you cross them?would you spare some?i would like to cross them to my lacys to refresh the blood..good luck!