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Thread: Leiper

  
  1. #1771
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    Re: leiper hatch

    Quote Originally Posted by sucess gamefarm View Post
    there are ways to keep a line bred for a long time alot longer then you and can out live its easy you just gotta have the knowledge and understanding of what youre doing. I beleive you dont yet.
    and i guess you do. show me or tell me somebody that has them for so long that shows not sells and shows them as a strain and is constantly on top each and every year.the guys that are doing the winning seems to me they are showing crossed fowl my friend. like i said hybrid vigor go look up that knowledge.

  2. #1772
    Senior Member Roberts44903's Avatar
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    Re: leiper hatch

    Quote Originally Posted by jamiepaul View Post
    and i guess you do. show me or tell me somebody that has them for so long that shows not sells and shows them as a strain and is constantly on top each and every year.the guys that are doing the winning seems to me they are showing crossed fowl my friend. like i said hybrid vigor go look up that knowledge.
    There are many people who do it. Will they tell you they are doing it? I highly doubt it. I posted a thread on how to breed a family with no new blood and, keep them going for longer then you will ever be alive. Only reason I got the information on how to breed fowl like that is I have known the guy a very long time.

    Not trying to start a bunch of crap saying you do not know what you are talking about but, more knowledge is not a bad thing.

  3. #1773
    Senior Member Mudflop's Avatar
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    Re: leiper hatch

    I obtained 5 hens and three brood cocks back in 1975. I have not added any new blood of a different family and still show them strait bred taking a few blue ribbons along the way.

    I have made crosses to Kelso, Hatch, and Sweater but still keep the original family as a strain by itself. The crosses are made for what Jamie calls hybrid vigor for competition but never for future brood stock.

  4. #1774
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    Re: leiper hatch

    Quote Originally Posted by Mudflop View Post
    I obtained 5 hens and three brood cocks back in 1975. I have not added any new blood of a different family and still show them strait bred taking a few blue ribbons along the way.

    I have made crosses to Kelso, Hatch, and Sweater but still keep the original family as a strain by itself. The crosses are made for what Jamie calls hybrid vigor for competition but never for future brood stock.
    good job flop, i guess what i should of said with that many cocks and hens you can do it.i was on the line of one cock and a few hens. should of cleared it up.

  5. #1775
    Senior Member Roberts44903's Avatar
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    Re: leiper hatch

    Quote Originally Posted by jamiepaul View Post
    good job flop, i guess what i should of said with that many cocks and hens you can do it.i was on the line of one cock and a few hens. should of cleared it up.
    A trio can do it also with proper selection. The key to keeping a family for a long time is selection and testing. The other is knowledge what I mean by that is knowing how to spot a good hen over one that is not as good. Sometimes you got to single mate them and see.

  6. #1776
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    Re: leiper hatch

    i guess it can be done but wouldnt you weaken yourline with just a few hens and then breeding good hens back to the father and so on.i'm stuck to believing you would bring out bad dna with a very inbred family.

  7. #1777
    Senior Member sucess gamefarm's Avatar
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    Re: leiper hatch

    Quote Originally Posted by jamiepaul View Post
    i guess it can be done but wouldnt you weaken yourline with just a few hens and then breeding good hens back to the father and so on.i'm stuck to believing you would bring out bad dna with a very inbred family.

    you could thats were selection is vital Rick Beal has had his Harold Brown Hatches since 71 with no out side blood added he just line breeds and told me that there better now then when he origanally obtained them. Butch93 was once telling me about a man that he knows that started with a brother sister 20 years ago and still is tough and wins high percentage with no out side blood added these few are just that few but its possible. Ray Boles for example breeds Brother/sister and has 20 generations. I beleive its all in selection. Y.F.I.S Adrian

  8. #1778
    Senior Member Outlaw greys's Avatar
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    Re: leiper hatch

    Quote Originally Posted by lurena View Post
    Have to agree with you Chad. When I ordered my fowl from Johnny Mitchell I was expecting a hard shuffling green legged hatch type of fowl. In the contrary these leipers are more like a roundhead type of fowl. They are football bodied with short tail and thick legs like a roundhead. They are high breakers side steppers with a wicked shuffle. What I've noticed is that they cut better than most hatch fowl out their. We've had bates(speckeled), mclean, blueface hatch but you need to grade those fowl down to get them fast. The leipers you can show them pure or crossed onto kelso or regular grey. Thats how Johnny used to cross them for show fowls. Johnny Mitchell kept them strong by breeding regular grey into them leipers for years to keep them strong. That was Johnny's way of breeding and he probably learned that from Percy Flowers where he got them leipers from. Johnny and Percy flowers come from the same school of thought as Sweater Mcguiness. All them old timers loved infusing regular grey into them green legged fowl to keep them coming strong. Sweater Mcguiness you all know created the blue face hatch by crossing regular grey hens to hatch cock. So that was their method for keeping them green legged fowl strong for many many years. Every body has their breeding system. What works for you might not work for other people.
    I thought rat got his leipers from jimmy east there is an ad in an old gamecock that has rats win record and it says won with jimmy east leipers

  9. #1779
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    Re: leiper hatch

    Quote Originally Posted by Outlaw greys View Post
    I thought rat got his leipers from jimmy east there is an ad in an old gamecock that has rats win record and it says won with jimmy east leipers
    Yes Rat did get his leipers from Jimmy East Jr. but they are leiper crosses. Rat Graves, Larry Romero and Harold brown hatch are nothing more than Leiper/hatch crosses as well. They are Leiper/Mclean crosses. They are different from what Chad B. and Irishcutt is description of the original leipers which are more similar to a roundhead/whitehackle cross.

  10. #1780
    Senior Member sucess gamefarm's Avatar
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    Re: leiper hatch

    Quote Originally Posted by lurena View Post
    Irishcutt is description of the original leipers which are more similar to a roundhead/whitehackle cross.

    Not to be miss understood Its the nigger Roundhead. for those who dont know

  11. #1781
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    Re: leiper hatch

    Starting back to the early posts.I think if you get the leiper stag from Mr. Nelson he will be a good one from what i heard he is an honest,stand up guy.Now we jump ship as to Pure this and Pure that.Jamie Paul if you want pure as the driven snow gamefowl.GET a Oriental.Most all gamefowl are watered down versions of Imported stock,even if you do not use orientals.The Whitehackels ,Brownreds and so on were imported.Most all American gamefowl these days carry some of these bloodlines.Breeders have always put their name on a blend of fowl just as judge Leiper did.His Leipers were a blend,nothing more.As far as breeding lines without adding new blood.It CAN be done and is being done by many great breeders,past and present.You could actually learn something if you would read the post and think.Noone knows it all,and everyone should always try to improve their fowl by hard culling,selective breeding,and most of all care.But remember if you start with junk thats all you will ever have.

  12. #1782
    Member Okie23's Avatar
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    Re: leiper hatch

    Yea rat got his leipers from 2 diff people an they are leiper/hatch cross just like Lurena said but the ones he fought in the 90's an before was very hard to beat he won a lot of derbys with them I have a 3x leiper cock an 3 hens that come from his older blood of his leipers they are very nice an hard hitting

  13. #1783
    Senior Member Roberts44903's Avatar
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    Re: leiper hatch

    Quote Originally Posted by jamiepaul View Post
    i guess it can be done but wouldnt you weaken yourline with just a few hens and then breeding good hens back to the father and so on.i'm stuck to believing you would bring out bad dna with a very inbred family.
    The way i posted in that thread on how to do it was passed down to me by a gentle man whi has been breeding Murphys pure with no outside blood for over 60 years. They are rock solid fowl in my opinion.

  14. #1784
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    Re: leiper hatch

    i stand corrected i'd admit my faults i just talked to a breeder over a hour and he told me how to do it.he did it with just a hen and cock over twenty years and still doing it.i guess i need to understand chickens are not horses.

  15. #1785
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    Re: leiper hatch

    Quote Originally Posted by jamiepaul View Post
    i stand corrected i'd admit my faults i just talked to a breeder over a hour and he told me how to do it.he did it with just a hen and cock over twenty years and still doing it.i guess i need to understand chickens are not horses.
    Share it with us jaime. I am interested in your friends breeding method.

  16. #1786
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    Re: leiper hatch

    I have liepers from Cy Taylor and some of his have a slight blue tint in there legs, very strong, alot of bottom and just hate another rooster when legal.

  17. #1787
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    Re: leiper hatch

    i guess breeding chickens is a lotdifferent than horses i was more on the line of thinking in the deformities,and size but with careful cosiderations and culling,and understanding what you want in your breeding program.i bred chickens before just always outcrossed them. by selecting and breeding brother sister and then back to grandparents and doing it all over again.i don't need to tell anybody who has been doing it most of their lives how to breed .so with that i am honestly sorry for arguing a losing point with some of you guys.

  18. #1788
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    Re: leiper hatch

    I have the yellow legged ones from Howard Suttles, very strong, aggresive , game and cross great on butcher

  19. #1789
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    Re: leiper hatch

    Quote Originally Posted by lurena View Post
    Share it with us jaime. I am interested in your friends breeding method.
    I would like to hear it as well...Always interested in hearing others breeding methods...One thing I have learned in this sport is you can never stop learning..when you do you'll fall quickly behind...I always keep an open mind...Doesnt mean I'm going to do it that way but who knows?....I may learn something...People say an old man cant learn like a young one...So I'm at a disadvantage here..lol...So humor me guys...yfis, Buck
    Last edited by Buckscocks; August 31st, 2012 at 01:32 PM.

  20. #1790
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    Re: leiper hatch

    Quote Originally Posted by Buckscocks View Post
    I would like to hear it as well...Always interested in hearing others breeding methods...One thing I have learned in this sport is you can never stop learning..when you do you'll fall quickly behind...I always keep an open mind...Doesnt mean I'm going to do it that way but who knows?....I may learn something...People say an old man cant learn like a young one...So I'm at a disadvantage here..lol...So humor me guys...yfis, Buck
    Buckscocks same with me I like keeping an open mind approach. I like Chad Bolan method of breeding brother to sister, single mating and culling hard. Like listening to older folks with more experience and getting new ideas.

  21. #1791
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    Re: leiper hatch

    Quote Originally Posted by lurena View Post
    Buckscocks same with me I like keeping an open mind approach. I like Chad Bolan method of breeding brother to sister, single mating and culling hard. Like listening to older folks with more experience and getting new ideas.
    thats the same method this guy does

  22. #1792
    Senior Member lucasemerson's Avatar
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    Re: Leiper Hatch

    My lieper offspring from this breeding season...outta old Jimmy east lieper lines

  23. #1793
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    Re: Leiper Hatch

    Johnny himself was very fond of his leipers croosed on cardinal club kelsos back when he was alive probably his favorite cross when he could get the cardinals.

  24. #1794
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    Re: Leiper Hatch

    Want to inquire about the body conformation of your pure Leipers especially those that came from the brothers Rat & Crow Graves. The one that our group bought from Crow has a body that is not rounded. The back is not broad and it has a big breast bone. Don't know if this is really the normal structure of a Leiper or I just got the one that is different from what it should be. Thanks for anything that could be shared by any one here.

  25. #1795
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    Re: Leiper Hatch

    Quote Originally Posted by banate View Post
    Want to inquire about the body conformation of your pure Leipers especially those that came from the brothers Rat & Crow Graves. The one that our group bought from Crow has a body that is not rounded. The back is not broad and it has a big breast bone. Don't know if this is really the normal structure of a Leiper or I just got the one that is different from what it should be. Thanks for anything that could be shared by any one here.
    In my honest opinion the Graves leipers are hatch/leiper crossess. Either Penny, Mclean or Blue face Hatch. If you have the old time leipers like the Johnny Mitchell leipers they are more of a roundhead/whitehackle cross. Their body feels round and tight feathered like in a roundhead fowl. Their tails are short, some come big headed and the legs are big like and oriental grade. They also cut better.

  26. #1796
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    Re: Leiper Hatch

    I want to share my Leiper broodfowl with you, guys; the old and the new.

    This is my old Leiper broodcock, it is from James Sylvester but I didn't get it direct. I didn't have much luck with it. I know Sylvester's got great fowl, but it just didn't work for me.



    I wanted to get something new, and was thinking about Rat Graves, but I found out through this forum about Johnny Mitchell's Leipers and wanted to give them a try.

    So, I got in touch with two of the people who raise this line--Michael Middleton and Roger Brooks (Hammertime). I got a trio from each. Here they are. (The flypens are new, that's why I still don't install a separation between them)



    The pullets on the left are Middleton's, the hens on the right are Hammertime's. In the center is the Hammertime BC with a Radio(Brady)/Kelso(Dink Fair) hen, and in the far right is the Middleton broodstag.

    Here are a couple of pics of the Hammertime BC.





    And here is the Middleton broodstag.





    There are two families of Johnny Mitchell Leipers, the Sixmarker and the Right Nose. Hammertime told me to get a Sixmarker BC and two Right Nose BHs, and I'd get great fowl for the Mexican show. Middleton said he no longer keeps them as two separate families, but that he sent me something that can cut.

    So, what do you guys think? Any comments or suggestions?

  27. #1797
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    Re: Leiper Hatch

    The Hammertime Brood Cock i got from Roger Brooks looks almost identical to yours but mine is the Right Nose line.Ive had them several years now.Most all my stags look like the Middletons,every once in awhile i get a light neck stag.Yours look good.Hope you have good luck with them.

  28. #1798
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    Re: Leiper Hatch

    Quote Originally Posted by aguazarca View Post
    I want to share my Leiper broodfowl with you, guys; the old and the new.

    This is my old Leiper broodcock, it is from James Sylvester but I didn't get it direct. I didn't have much luck with it. I know Sylvester's got great fowl, but it just didn't work for me.



    I wanted to get something new, and was thinking about Rat Graves, but I found out through this forum about Johnny Mitchell's Leipers and wanted to give them a try.

    So, I got in touch with two of the people who raise this line--Michael Middleton and Roger Brooks (Hammertime). I got a trio from each. Here they are. (The flypens are new, that's why I still don't install a separation between them)



    The pullets on the left are Middleton's, the hens on the right are Hammertime's. In the center is the Hammertime BC with a Radio(Brady)/Kelso(Dink Fair) hen, and in the far right is the Middleton broodstag.

    Here are a couple of pics of the Hammertime BC.





    And here is the Middleton broodstag.





    There are two families of Johnny Mitchell Leipers, the Sixmarker and the Right Nose. Hammertime told me to get a Sixmarker BC and two Right Nose BHs, and I'd get great fowl for the Mexican show. Middleton said he no longer keeps them as two separate families, but that he sent me something that can cut.

    So, what do you guys think? Any comments or suggestions?
    Just by looking at the pictures the Mike Middleton Leiper looks real good. Dark red, tight feather and round football body. He will cut like butter. The Hammer time leiper looks more of a hatch fowl type with more plumage. He will probably have tons of bottom. You will just have to cross them and see what work for you.

  29. #1799
    Member SheltonRH's Avatar
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    Re: Leiper Hatch

    In my own opinion you have a nice new fly pen.looks like you didn't need a hammer time.Good job.It's just me,my 2 cents opinion.

    yfis,
    Shelton RH.!.



    Quote Originally Posted by aguazarca View Post
    I want to share my Leiper broodfowl with you, guys; the old and the new.

    This is my old Leiper broodcock, it is from James Sylvester but I didn't get it direct. I didn't have much luck with it. I know Sylvester's got great fowl, but it just didn't work for me.



    I wanted to get something new, and was thinking about Rat Graves, but I found out through this forum about Johnny Mitchell's Leipers and wanted to give them a try.

    So, I got in touch with two of the people who raise this line--Michael Middleton and Roger Brooks (Hammertime). I got a trio from each. Here they are. (The flypens are new, that's why I still don't install a separation between them)



    The pullets on the left are Middleton's, the hens on the right are Hammertime's. In the center is the Hammertime BC with a Radio(Brady)/Kelso(Dink Fair) hen, and in the far right is the Middleton broodstag.

    Here are a couple of pics of the Hammertime BC.





    And here is the Middleton broodstag.





    There are two families of Johnny Mitchell Leipers, the Sixmarker and the Right Nose. Hammertime told me to get a Sixmarker BC and two Right Nose BHs, and I'd get great fowl for the Mexican show. Middleton said he no longer keeps them as two separate families, but that he sent me something that can cut.

    So, what do you guys think? Any comments or suggestions?

  30. #1800
    Senior Member Perfect-Gull's Avatar
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    Re: Leiper Hatch

    Quote Originally Posted by banate View Post
    Want to inquire about the body conformation of your pure Leipers especially those that came from the brothers Rat & Crow Graves. The one that our group bought from Crow has a body that is not rounded. The back is not broad and it has a big breast bone. Don't know if this is really the normal structure of a Leiper or I just got the one that is different from what it should be. Thanks for anything that could be shared by any one here.
    Hey, banate out there in carson do they have the 3 rooster city law? I live out in the outskirts or perris near riverside and I was told there was a 3 cock law.

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