Not trying to start a bunch of crap saying you do not know what you are talking about but, more knowledge is not a bad thing.
I obtained 5 hens and three brood cocks back in 1975. I have not added any new blood of a different family and still show them strait bred taking a few blue ribbons along the way.
I have made crosses to Kelso, Hatch, and Sweater but still keep the original family as a strain by itself. The crosses are made for what Jamie calls hybrid vigor for competition but never for future brood stock.
i guess it can be done but wouldnt you weaken yourline with just a few hens and then breeding good hens back to the father and so on.i'm stuck to believing you would bring out bad dna with a very inbred family.
you could thats were selection is vital Rick Beal has had his Harold Brown Hatches since 71 with no out side blood added he just line breeds and told me that there better now then when he origanally obtained them. Butch93 was once telling me about a man that he knows that started with a brother sister 20 years ago and still is tough and wins high percentage with no out side blood added these few are just that few but its possible. Ray Boles for example breeds Brother/sister and has 20 generations. I beleive its all in selection. Y.F.I.S Adrian
Starting back to the early posts.I think if you get the leiper stag from Mr. Nelson he will be a good one from what i heard he is an honest,stand up guy.Now we jump ship as to Pure this and Pure that.Jamie Paul if you want pure as the driven snow gamefowl.GET a Oriental.Most all gamefowl are watered down versions of Imported stock,even if you do not use orientals.The Whitehackels ,Brownreds and so on were imported.Most all American gamefowl these days carry some of these bloodlines.Breeders have always put their name on a blend of fowl just as judge Leiper did.His Leipers were a blend,nothing more.As far as breeding lines without adding new blood.It CAN be done and is being done by many great breeders,past and present.You could actually learn something if you would read the post and think.Noone knows it all,and everyone should always try to improve their fowl by hard culling,selective breeding,and most of all care.But remember if you start with junk thats all you will ever have.
Yea rat got his leipers from 2 diff people an they are leiper/hatch cross just like Lurena said but the ones he fought in the 90's an before was very hard to beat he won a lot of derbys with them I have a 3x leiper cock an 3 hens that come from his older blood of his leipers they are very nice an hard hitting
i stand corrected i'd admit my faults i just talked to a breeder over a hour and he told me how to do it.he did it with just a hen and cock over twenty years and still doing it.i guess i need to understand chickens are not horses.
I have liepers from Cy Taylor and some of his have a slight blue tint in there legs, very strong, alot of bottom and just hate another rooster when legal.
i guess breeding chickens is a lotdifferent than horses i was more on the line of thinking in the deformities,and size but with careful cosiderations and culling,and understanding what you want in your breeding program.i bred chickens before just always outcrossed them. by selecting and breeding brother sister and then back to grandparents and doing it all over again.i don't need to tell anybody who has been doing it most of their lives how to breed .so with that i am honestly sorry for arguing a losing point with some of you guys.
I have the yellow legged ones from Howard Suttles, very strong, aggresive , game and cross great on butcher
Last edited by Buckscocks; August 31st, 2012 at 01:32 PM.
My lieper offspring from this breeding season...outta old Jimmy east lieper lines
Johnny himself was very fond of his leipers croosed on cardinal club kelsos back when he was alive probably his favorite cross when he could get the cardinals.
Want to inquire about the body conformation of your pure Leipers especially those that came from the brothers Rat & Crow Graves. The one that our group bought from Crow has a body that is not rounded. The back is not broad and it has a big breast bone. Don't know if this is really the normal structure of a Leiper or I just got the one that is different from what it should be. Thanks for anything that could be shared by any one here.
I want to share my Leiper broodfowl with you, guys; the old and the new.
This is my old Leiper broodcock, it is from James Sylvester but I didn't get it direct. I didn't have much luck with it. I know Sylvester's got great fowl, but it just didn't work for me.
I wanted to get something new, and was thinking about Rat Graves, but I found out through this forum about Johnny Mitchell's Leipers and wanted to give them a try.
So, I got in touch with two of the people who raise this line--Michael Middleton and Roger Brooks (Hammertime). I got a trio from each. Here they are. (The flypens are new, that's why I still don't install a separation between them)
The pullets on the left are Middleton's, the hens on the right are Hammertime's. In the center is the Hammertime BC with a Radio(Brady)/Kelso(Dink Fair) hen, and in the far right is the Middleton broodstag.
Here are a couple of pics of the Hammertime BC.
And here is the Middleton broodstag.
There are two families of Johnny Mitchell Leipers, the Sixmarker and the Right Nose. Hammertime told me to get a Sixmarker BC and two Right Nose BHs, and I'd get great fowl for the Mexican show. Middleton said he no longer keeps them as two separate families, but that he sent me something that can cut.
So, what do you guys think? Any comments or suggestions?
The Hammertime Brood Cock i got from Roger Brooks looks almost identical to yours but mine is the Right Nose line.Ive had them several years now.Most all my stags look like the Middletons,every once in awhile i get a light neck stag.Yours look good.Hope you have good luck with them.