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Thread: Too Wet !!! How moisture affects your performance .

  
  1. #1
    ellisgamefowl
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    Too Wet !!! How moisture affects your performance .

    Friends I learned something this past saturday that may help someone learning to point a rooster .
    Why is moisture control important ? This past saturday we left for the pit at 6 am . By 7 am we were driving thru a thunderstorm . By the time we made it to the pit , 8 am , the parking lots were mud puddles . It rained hard untill 1 pm . This pit only has 6 inside cockhouses so we had to make due with the back of the truck under a camper shell and a 12 by 12 tarp we put up . When we dropped our cocks they dropped 99% liquid the size of a coke can . Three different times , they were way too wet . But they were gut empty .
    Throughout the day I noticed that everyone's birds were loosing power after just a few pittings making for very long fights all day long .
    The high moisture % these cocks were carrying was weighing them down making them tire quicker . We were able to cut our opponents down quick but after a few pittings the cocks couldn't pick their legs up high enough to point the spurs . Making for lots of looooong drag fights .
    I think it's safe to say that when you show a cock thats too wet its like adding weights to his legs or entire body . It has to slow them down because it takes more energy for them to move .
    This is my opinion anyway , anyone with a differing opinion please share .

  2. #2
    paningit
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    I have evry reason to believe that too wet cock would not cut really well if not cut at all those hard heavy legs are due to this i suppose pointing the cock properly well is one of the winning formula of a cocker we can therefore conclude if its not a fact that the true instinct of a chicken is to hold any liquid or food in their system when they can feel that rain or wet season are due, solely due to the availability of a feeds and fresh water in this kind of weather since the true habitat of this species is the jungle the instinct will always be there no matter where..just my opinion..
    paningit

  3. #3
    Member Ferdi's Avatar
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    Feeding is the key

    That's the reason why we feed based on the weather where we are showing our birds. There's a weather forecast for every zip code in the US. However, the better bird will always find a way to win no matter what.

  4. #4
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    Too much moisture

    The reason they picked up all the moisture is because they were really empty. They can't control that moisture they pick up. I think in those rainy weathers they should have a little bit of feed in them. With moisture they can cut but they'll fight sluggish. Also in the long knife fights they will die quicker due to the loss of blood than shock sets in quicker. With a little bit of feed in them when it's rainy they can pull themselves together. It has a lot to due with feeding. In the long knife i would like a little bit of moisture in them so they can cut deep. I don't like them too dry. They may take punishment but can't cut. You just gotta have them well balanced. Not too dry and not too wet. This is just my opinion.

  5. #5
    Cyberfriends ncyabut's Avatar
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    time and again it has been said that the three letters to remember when it comes to preparing a show of chickens are H R M... these stands for Hunger... Rest... Moisture... if you get these three right coupled with a well-bred chicken...chances of you getting the WIN are pretty good... moisture does a lot to your chicken it should be just right... to wet and your chicken will lose his power, stamina, speed and his crisp hard blows... to dry and he will cut short... this is the reason why preparing chickens takes a lot of time and experience... a well-bred chicken can sometimes be kicked in the pits by a well-conditioned chicken...

  6. #6
    alexander
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    cockmates

    i tried the pointing method i learned by the threads in this site and it reallyn gave me a better result. I had a record of 7 wins and 1 loss since i applied the pointing method. But i still have apprehensions of getting my chickens dehydrated because i really do not know how to measure the exact amount of water to give. what i did is i just count the number of sips. Three sips per meal. Am i doing it right? I would really appreciate it if somebody could educate me on this matter. Tnx.
    p.s.
    I usually start the pointing a day before fight. is this correct?

  7. #7
    paulajay
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    to much to say about moisture...

    guys,

    how would you determine the right amount of moisture on the cock's body? i've pointing fowl too... base on my experience even a cock drop a dry thing he still have moisture in his body..know how we will know that much amount?

    thanks
    PJ

  8. #8
    Cyberfriends ncyabut's Avatar
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    my friend that's what separates the men from the boys in conditioning. determining the right amount of moisture takes a lot of experience. there are a lot of indicators, but basically there is a right "feel" and "general appearance" for a cock that is in perfect condition. this is the tricky part of pointing. you should be on the look out not only for the right droppings. this is one thing that you will have to gain from experience.

  9. #9
    ellisgamefowl
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    Here's my thoughts on moisture control .

    You never take water away from your rooster . Let him drink what he wants . He will regulate his moisture better than you can naturally .
    Soaked feed isn't necessary untill the last week , you want soft feed the point week for easy digestion . I add canned corn and green peas with the conditioning mix and soak it in gatoraide .
    The last two days they stay in the keep stalls , we take em out in the morning to drop em and let em have some water . Then in the evening to feed .
    Now the way I feed will make your cock a little wet , but thats the way mine fight the best .
    The morning of fight day i'll drop em every hour , maybe three times before weigh in . If they're stopped up they go back in the box but that rarely happens .
    His droppings will be pretty big the first time from being boxed up all night but by the third dropping I want to see it with water about the size of a quarter to a dime with just a little chit in it . This tells me that he's got enough moisture to cut , but not too much . And he's almost gut empty .
    I've seen the Ratliff tapes where he says the droppings should be solid and you should be able to pick it up and throw it against the wall and it should stick . In my opinion thats too dry , for my birds anyway .

  10. #10
    paulajay
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    well said..dude!

    cockmates,

    that's what i mean, a cock regulate his moisture regardless of what he wants to his body moisture.

    unless he is sick or anything.

    PJ

  11. #11
    Senior Member BananaCamp's Avatar
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    That's why I like cockfighting there is no one right way way of preparing them for fight day, but the goal is to get them empty. One thing I learned is you must be able to make adjustments to your feed according to the weather and the elements at the right time. You be the judge as to how much moisture and adjustments you make for whatever reason or situation you face coming up to fight day. It's all in your feed......

  12. #12
    doongan
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    leave the cock in a shaded area with water all day and he will only drink what his body needs. early morning the next day his droppings will be just about right,firm but moist.for me that's the exact moisture.

  13. #13
    buhawi
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    moisture in ...............moisture out

    give them enough moisture during the start and middle of the keep

    then gradually lessen the source of moisture come end of keep(moisture out).here`s the very tricky point..............how to decrease gradually depends on individual rooster.........no two roosters are alike:lol:

    the so called right feel will be the deciding factor............spongy............and corky:lol:

    at the start and middle of the keep i like them bodies somewhat spongy....malambot ang hipo...at the end of the keep going fight day........i like them corky............nasa sumasalat yan.........kapag hindi maganda ang salat ay itapon mo(ano yan mahjong)......ikaw ang matotodas:lol:

    source of moisture.........morning feed.

    boil one cup of pearl barley in one cup of water.
    do the same to 1 cup of brownrice and also to 1 cup of raisins.
    wait to cool down and drain excess water.
    put in 1 container and add 1 cup of evaporated milk.
    painitan mo uli........kapag lumamig ilagay mo sa ref........
    hindi ikaw ang kakain nito sa umaga ha..........yung manok,hehe.

  14. #14
    Senior Member juan sabungero's Avatar
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    well said cockmates !

    environment do effect cock moisture drastically

  15. #15
    CyberFriends jlbs72's Avatar
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    Any tips on how to point your birds during december ? (Phils.)

  16. #16
    Senior Member juan sabungero's Avatar
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    jlbs72

    december to february is normally the best season for conditioning
    the climate is almost perfect not rainny not too hot

    some portion of p.i. may have different climate though

    any conditioning keep i think will do best in this season. (imho)

  17. #17
    Senior Member LMIGHTYWWW's Avatar
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    Ellis, in your situation you need a bigtime common sense on that day of the fight coz it was raining hard for 6 hours, the bad thing is... you have no choice but to stay outside the pit while you're doing a crucial thing (pointing), that's why your birds picked up too much moisture. First thing you should do this time of year.. just look the 5 day forecast. 2nd thing you should do... when you see the liquid dropping like a size of a coke can (bad, bad, bad sign) feed them strictly laying pellets all day until you see the white and dry droppings in that particular day. Just my opinion. Take it or forget about it.

  18. #18
    ellisgamefowl
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    I agree with you LMIGHTY.....

    We did pay close attention to the weather forcast . They were calling for 30% chance of scattered showers . I guess the 30% fell right on top of us . LOL .

    We were worried about the cock's being too wet , under normal conditions we would have packed up and went home . But we knew that everyone was in the same boat with us and we had a title to defend . We weren't going anywhere . We came to fight !

    Plus we went 6 straight that day so even though the birds were water logged , and we were too , it didn't matter in the end .

    But yes , I did learn something that day . That's why I shared it here .

  19. #19
    Senior Member silver2dmoon's Avatar
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    Lmighty....

    ...would feeding them some citrus fruit dry them up ?
    hope to hear from you ...thanks.

  20. #20
    ellisgamefowl
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    I over looked the laying pellets.......

    LMIGHTY , in this situation how much laying pellets would you have given them ? Let's say you dropped them out the first time at 8am and the derby started at 11 . That's a part of pointing that I'm a little "unlearned" about .

    The reason for pointing them is to get them gut empty so when you need to dry them out this much , how much is enough , and how much is too much to give them ? Will it back them off point if you feed them too much ? I've heard it would . That's why we don't give them anything the day of the fight .

    Sharing this information will help alot of people .........

  21. #21
    Senior Member LMIGHTYWWW's Avatar
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    Silver2dmoon, yeah! but not the best thing to do coz its a liquid form.

    Ellis, you have to drop them every hour on the hour but every time you drop give them 4 pellets and your all set.

  22. #22
    Senior Member juan sabungero's Avatar
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    yup that's how we learn sometimes . . . cost a lot

  23. #23
    Senior Member colt39's Avatar
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    Moisture

    If you show up around here with cocks that are too wet & you do not get the moisture out, you will go home with empty boxes.

    Every time I turn around there is some one elce saying that good cocks always find a way to win. Well don't belive it. I have seen a lot of good cocks go down because they were too wet. They are slugish & can't take the cutting.

    If they are dropping moisture the size of a pop can, you are better off leaving them for another day.

    If you just can't stand just sitting and watching, there are a few things you can do. First it all depends on the humidity & tempature. If you are in a cock house that you can control the humidity & tempature, you should never have them too wet.

    Anyways, if they are dropping the size of a pop can, you had better drop them out every 20 minutes. The sooner you get them dropping dime size the sooner they will become sharp. If you drop them once an hour, you may not get them sharp until the derby is half over.

    Get you a little humidity- Temp gauge & keep it in your cock house. Take it to the pit as well. Where your cocks go, it goes. Randall Burkey has a digital one for some where around $30.00.
    That is where I got my last one & it works fine. Don't go by the tempature & just gues because it will fool you. I have seen it be warm out & you would think, there is no way the humidity is high today but it is.

    Now, if the humidity is high & your cocks are empty & are dropping the sise of that pop can, you will want to add a bit of feed, like LMIGHTY says. 4 pellets every hour will help suck the moisture out. Just make sure you drop them every 20 minutes until you get them where you want them.

    If they are too wet & they are not quit empty yet, just drop them out every 20 minutes. I go by the humidity being 65%. if it is over that you better give them a bite of feed as well. If it is under just keep dropping them.

    I will say this once again, pop can size moisture will cost you. If the humidity is above 65%, just leave them in the stalls.

    With this in mind, there is really no way to read some thing like this & go out and start winning derbys. It takes common sence as well as experince. All situations are different but one thing stays the same & that is what they need to be sharp.

    One more thing to rember is, like what was already said, hunger, rest & moisture. I will say that 99% of all game fowl, no matter what type, require the same moisture level to prefom at their peak. Some will require more rest that others. Some may even preform better emptyer that others but the moisture needs to be the same.

    Know your fowl. It will help determin how much rest they can take with out going over. It is better to give them a little less rest that to give them to much.

    Went camping & got rained out so we came home. I did manage to catch a nice salmon around 25 lbs.

  24. #24
    Senior Member juan sabungero's Avatar
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    colt39

    good point bro thanks

  25. #25
    ellisgamefowl
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    Yep

    Good post Jim

  26. #26
    doongan
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    going over with too much rest?they wont go over unless they are gut empty.

  27. #27
    Senior Member colt39's Avatar
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    Going over

    Being too empty will make them go over Just like too much rest. Try blacking out a high strung Roundhead or Brownred too long & see what happens. I can rest my Jap crosses longer than all my other birds because they are not high strung. With this said, they even pass their feed a bit slower.

    You have to know your fowl. Then you will know what, as well as how much.

  28. #28
    doongan
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    i got you jim.but we drop them from time to time to check so its unlikely to go over.i'll remember what you said.thanks.

  29. #29
    Senior Member colt39's Avatar
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    Most of us drop them out thru the rest period. But have you ever noticed that they were feeling better the night befor than on derby day. & yes this could be from not feeding enough the last few feedings & they are emptying to fast & are comming on to soon.
    All I am saying is that different blood lines require different amounts of rest. It is up to you to know your fowl. It will make the difference between getting your cocks close to sharp & winning a high % & getting them sharp & getting straight wins.

  30. #30
    buhawi
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    i agree with jim

    treat them individually,each has its metabolic rate.

    too much rest make.... some roosters..... inactive,losing eventually their sharpness.

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