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Thread: Conditioning by the Legendary Jesse Cabalza thru Bombit Abad and TJT Cocking Academy

  1. #91
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    Re: Conditioning by the Legendary Jesse Cabalza thru Bombit Abad and TJT Cocking Acad

    Quote Originally Posted by bombit aba
    REPLY:

    If I may add, put on gloves so that the birds would not hurt each other. But make sure when you do "salida", the birds must be at a distance that is just close and the impact must be prevented by pulling the tail upwards, this will fraustrate them, but will make them stretch their legs farthest.
    By the way where's my pellets? pigeon that is...


    Happy Cocking!
    It's coming, I haven't forgotten that one. One bag is about 50 LBS. I am having it ship door to door, I'm just waiting for my brother to have his box ready and it will be there soon. I will see you on Jan to show you the material I have acquired.

  2. #92
    Senior Member bombit aba's Avatar
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    Re: Conditioning by the Legendary Jesse Cabalza thru Bombit Abad and TJT Cocking Acad

    Quote Originally Posted by mylod
    It's coming, I haven't forgotten that one. One bag is about 50 LBS. I am having it ship door to door, I'm just waiting for my brother to have his box ready and it will be there soon. I will see you on Jan to show you the material I have acquired.
    REPLY:
    I have PM for you...

  3. #93
    Senior Member Kidd Sentencia's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: Conditioning by the Legendary Jesse Cabalza thru Bombit Abad and TJT Cocking Academy

    Kudos to you Atty...I wish there's a salute smilies here so I can put it right here:

  4. #94
    itosh
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    Re: Conditioning by the Legendary Jesse Cabalza thru Bombit Abad and TJT Cocking Acad

    Quote Originally Posted by bombit aba
    REPLY:

    nO. 1 above any other consideration is the bloodline. Your bird must come from a family of winning strains. And this means, hard core battle tested bloodlines from a breeder whose birds you have personally seen winning in the pit and the markings of the winning bird, you must discover or find out. Frankly, advertisement is good, but reality is better. When Jesse was alive during the prime of his career he does not even spar birds when he was selecting them. He just checks on the bloodline and afterwhich, only then the physical features.

    NOw after this is done, isalida mo yung manok mo every other day and make sure hindi sila magkakatamaan so that when fraustrated, your bird will try to reach farther when hitting his opponent.

    Happy Cocking!


    Bombit Abad
    0921-221-0469
    tnx attorney, you've been very helpful!!!

  5. #95
    Member manuel_cab's Avatar
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    Re: Conditioning by the Legendary Jesse Cabalza thru Bombit Abad and TJT Cocking Academy

    it's really a very informative thread..i salute you doc teddy and atty abad for sharing unselfishly your knowledge and experience about cockfigtning.mayi take this oppportunity
    to ask question about PRE-CONDITIONING.
    1.) how many days/weeks before the fight is the best time to pre-condition fighting cocks?
    2.) what are the necessary workouts/exercises to be undertaken?
    3.) how about the feeds and feeding programs and the drugs to be given?
    4.) is it advisable to use human drugs to our fighting cocks instead of animal drugs?
    please share us your know-how regarding these pre-conditioning questions.
    THANK YOU AND MORE POWER TO YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  6. #96
    Senior Member bombit aba's Avatar
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    Re: Conditioning by the Legendary Jesse Cabalza thru Bombit Abad and TJT Cocking Academy

    Quote Originally Posted by manuel_cab
    it's really a very informative thread..i salute you doc teddy and atty abad for sharing unselfishly your knowledge and experience about cockfigtning.mayi take this oppportunity
    to ask question about PRE-CONDITIONING.
    1.) how many days/weeks before the fight is the best time to pre-condition fighting cocks?
    2.) what are the necessary workouts/exercises to be undertaken?
    3.) how about the feeds and feeding programs and the drugs to be given?
    4.) is it advisable to use human drugs to our fighting cocks instead of animal drugs?
    please share us your know-how regarding these pre-conditioning questions.
    THANK YOU AND MORE POWER TO YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    REPLY:

    gREETINGS!

    I think the good Doctor Teddy, D.V.M is in far better position to answer this querry.

    What can you say Doc?

  7. #97
    Accredited Merchant tjtcokngacademy's Avatar
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    manuel_cab

    Here are the answers to your questions:
    1. The preconditioning stage is the foundation of the conditioning keep. One month or more before the actual keep, the gamecocks are prepared in a lesser degree for battle. In preconditioning, the aim is to have the cocks in perfect flesh before they enter the keep. However, due to eagerness to put more flesh in our chickens, there is a tendency to overfeed which can cause sapola or gut fat. Those chickens with sapola or gut fat should be slimmed down during this particular period. For my preconditioning ration, please read page 1 of my book, On Gamecock Conditioning, for the proportions of grains and other ingredients.

    2. The preconditioning stage is also the "familiarization stage" wherein the rotation method and exercises are introduced every other day. This will prepare them to get used to the actual routine they would be subjected to during the conditioning stage.

    3. With regards to my feeding and medication program, it would be easier if you read my book as this will require a lengthy discussion.

    4. Atty. Abad & I belong to the 'rubramin' era. The medicines we use are intended for humans but are adjusted to the chickens body weight and age. The reason why I use medicines intended for humans is because of its desirable effect wherein it heightens their reflexes and puts sheen and glow into their feathers. Hence, I use the veterinary medication for their maintenance during the preconditioning stage.

    I'm sure that my mentor, Atty. Bombit Abad, has more things to add.
    Last edited by tjtcokngacademy; July 26th, 2007 at 09:19 PM.
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  8. #98
    Member lennos's Avatar
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    Re: manuel_cab

    well said doc.. thanks for the brief but valuable info.. where can we get the copy of your book?thanks..

  9. #99
    Member manuel_cab's Avatar
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    Re: Conditioning by the Legendary Jesse Cabalza thru Bombit Abad and TJT Cocking Academy

    thankyou very much doc..i'll try to get 1 of your books once i'm there in PI.where can i find your books and vcd's for conditioning.do you have an uotlets like national bookstore or gamefowl products distributor..

  10. #100
    Senior Member manok911's Avatar
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    Re: Conditioning by the Legendary Jesse Cabalza thru Bombit Abad and TJT Cocking Acad

    up lang natin........

  11. #101
    Senior Member bombit aba's Avatar
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    Re: manuel_cab

    Quote Originally Posted by tjtcokngacademy
    Here are the answers to your questions:
    1. The preconditioning stage is the foundation of the conditioning keep. One month or more before the actual keep, the gamecocks are prepared in a lesser degree for battle. In preconditioning, the aim is to have the cocks in perfect flesh before they enter the keep. However, due to eagerness to put more flesh in our chickens, there is a tendency to overfeed which can cause sapola or gut fat. Those chickens with sapola or gut fat should be slimmed down during this particular period. For my preconditioning ration, please read page 1 of my book, On Gamecock Conditioning, for the proportions of grains and other ingredients.

    2. The preconditioning stage is also the "familiarization stage" wherein the rotation method and exercises are introduced every other day. This will prepare them to get used to the actual routine they would be subjected to during the conditioning stage.

    3. With regards to my feeding and medication program, it would be easier if you read my book as this will require a lengthy discussion.

    4. Atty. Abad & I belong to the 'rubramin' era. The medicines we use are intended for humans but are adjusted to the chickens body weight and age. The reason why I use medicines intended for humans is because of its desirable effect wherein it heightens their reflexes and puts sheen and glow into their feathers. Hence, I use the veterinary medication for their maintenance during the preconditioning stage.

    I'm sure that my mentor, Atty. Bombit Abad, has more things to add.
    REPLY:

    Thankyou Doc for the endorsement to add up to your already 99% complete analysis and scientific advise to the querry of this Gentleman-Cocker. So, that leaves me with but only 1%... to add up and Im not sure if what Im going to add up i correct

    At any rate, let me try.

    Pre-conditioning, to (me) is something in between maintenance of your birds on cord and the actual conditioning period of 21-days. Actually, it is keeping your birds healthy and exposing them little by little to the rudiments of training thru the introduction of the birds to the fly pen, running pen, scratching pen, to adopt to light and sound, etc.etc. and from here, it is easier to enter the 21-day keep. And to point them to be at 101% percentum peak on the day of the fight (figure of speech for emphasis).

    Happy Cocking!

  12. #102
    Member manuel_cab's Avatar
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    Re: Conditioning by the Legendary Jesse Cabalza thru Bombit Abad and TJT Cocking Academy

    what agreat explanation attorney!!!!!.i consider you and doc teddy as genius when it comes
    breeding and conditiong gamecocks

  13. #103
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    Re: Conditioning by the Legendary Jesse Cabalza thru Bombit Abad and TJT Cocking Academy

    Due to insistent public demand....TJT Cocking Academy would have Atty. Bombit Abad again as it's guest speaker ON CONDITIONING.



    EDWIN ARANEZ Of RED Gamefarm would be our guest speaker ON BREEDING.
    Last edited by tjtcokngacademy; August 4th, 2007 at 01:28 AM.
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  14. #104
    Senior Member bombit aba's Avatar
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    Re: Conditioning by the Legendary Jesse Cabalza thru Bombit Abad and TJT Cocking Academy

    Light Training vs. Heavy Training

    On a short conditioning period and Iam talking about Conditioning not the so-called "pre-con", a 14-day keep is ideal for healthy birds. This has been proven 20-30 years ago as to the matter of so-called 21-day keep, it is really a matter of how you point your birds to peak on fight day, regardless if its 14-days, 21 or even 30 days. These are, as a matter of personal opinion, just trying to overly emphasize a period of time but, the bottom line is and will always be the ability of the Trainer/Conditioner to pick the right bird to be conditioned in simple terminology.

    To be overly scientific, loosing the "feel" but instead going to the motion of conditioning without the Heart is useless. And simply following very basic guidelines without using your own discerning mind will yield nothing except, robotized copying of conditioning. And when we copy, total achievement is completely lost and victory(ies) in the pit is rendered nugatory or doubtful even in the mind of the cock owner or the trainer, because we merely copied.

    As a matter of personal opinion, I prefer hard training than light training. This is my belief and I hope the same is respected. Ofcourse, with the corresponding resting period pro-rated with the heavy training, they must jive.

    Happy Cocking!

  15. #105
    Senior Member bombit aba's Avatar
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    Re: Conditioning by the Legendary Jesse Cabalza thru Bombit Abad and TJT Cocking Academy

    THE TEEPEE AND THE SCRATCH

    Matter of suggestion, if you want your farm boys not to feel lazy in scratching your game cocks, put a scratching pen just beside or close to the teepee or cord walk area with litter on it and let your farm boys just throw your birds once a day in the scratching pen for 30 minites then bring them out again after.

    This way, the "pre-con" is easier coz a little adjustment during the 21-day keep can even be reduced to just 14-days but they are far hardened up because, the routine is always there.

    Happy Cocking!

  16. #106
    carlpoten
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    re; rubramin

    hi atty. bombit,

    i cannot express my happiness in this forum for so much information that you and doc teddy have shared. i'm overwhelmed. a lot of quesions have been answered. can i ask your opinion or suggestion on what injectable drugs you can use with the same effect as "rubramin"? and when will be the last injection if example the fight is on sat?





    Quote Originally Posted by bombit aba
    REPLY:

    Thankyou Doc for the endorsement to add up to your already 99% complete analysis and scientific advise to the querry of this Gentleman-Cocker. So, that leaves me with but only 1%... to add up and Im not sure if what Im going to add up i correct

    At any rate, let me try.

    Pre-conditioning, to (me) is something in between maintenance of your birds on cord and the actual conditioning period of 21-days. Actually, it is keeping your birds healthy and exposing them little by little to the rudiments of training thru the introduction of the birds to the fly pen, running pen, scratching pen, to adopt to light and sound, etc.etc. and from here, it is easier to enter the 21-day keep. And to point them to be at 101% percentum peak on the day of the fight (figure of speech for emphasis).

    Happy Cocking!

  17. #107
    carlpoten
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    Re: Conditioning by the Legendary Jesse Cabalza thru Bombit Abad and TJT Cocking Academy

    hi sir,

    ask ko lng po what is KH3? sory not familiar in the term. is pharmaton good as a vitamin or is it strong for the chicken? thanks.. any suggestions atty?


    Quote Originally Posted by bombit aba
    REPLY:

    The use of vitamins is good. The over use of it is horrible. Therefore, you may try combination on the last 3 days but I normally give 1 vitamin on a monday then another 1 on wednesday and next will be friday of a good brand of anti-stress and/or KH3.

    Goodluck!

  18. #108
    Accredited Merchant tjtcokngacademy's Avatar
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    carlpoten

    A good conditioner should treat each candidate for the derby....individually. Remember that: "what is good for one rooster may not be good for the other" .
    Naming a substitute or brand might only confuse the readers...that is why??? I would rather discuss it on a personal level inside the academy premises.

    Asking me?? When will I position it? I would position it on Day 17(as written in page 26 of my book-Medication Chart). The reason for this is because right after administering the injection, they will experience a sudden surge in their body temperature and they need a few days to bring down their temperature to it's normal level. Assuming that they were given enough time to rest and the freedom for a good dust bath to complete their ultimate rest. This would definitely put them in their tiptop shape COME Fight Day.

    I know my kumpadre Bombit, might like to add more inputs regarding this matter.


    Last edited by tjtcokngacademy; August 22nd, 2007 at 01:17 AM.
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  19. #109
    Member bulikmais's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: Conditioning by the Legendary Jesse Cabalza thru Bombit Abad and TJT Cocking Acad

    thanks for the tip on how to condition,Doc Teddy..More power.

  20. #110
    Senior Member bombit aba's Avatar
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    Re: Conditioning by the Legendary Jesse Cabalza thru Bombit Abad and TJT Cocking Academy

    With the highest degree of respect to the sender of the querry in regard to Rubramin or better known as Cyanocobalamin, or B12, manufactured if I remeber it right by Squibb may have been phased out or missing in the market but, the most important combination of Rubramin is that, it was with Crystalline and this makes the medicine so very potent and that it stays longer in the body. However, as to its administration & quantity, the good Doctor is in a much better position to answer the same.

    However, it is available during our time at 1000mcg./cc. Now that its gone, a good substitute to Cyanocobalamin may be those made in Germany. Like for instance, Vontabe 12 is also good. Because that is the brand used by the brother of the former Living Legend.

    But bear to mind, the best method is mastering and using your own feed formulations because vitamins is only used as supplements to enhance performance and the proper training, timing, correct weight, body conformation and the knife you use- theres so many things to consider...

    Happy Cocking!

  21. #111
    carlpoten
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    Re: Conditioning by the Legendary Jesse Cabalza thru Bombit Abad and TJT Cocking Acad

    hi sir,

    you mentioned on the previous page that use of 100% corn cooked is dangerous for the cock to go overweight. so are sugesting to add a bit of pellets would be advisable? in case you want to use cooked corn instead of the wheat and banana..




    Quote Originally Posted by bombit aba
    REPLY:

    Whatever feed you use on the exact day of the fight be it a combination of wheat and banana or pure boiled corn, just give 2 pecks. Let the chicken do the pecking. Dont count the corns consumed.

  22. #112
    carlpoten
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    Re: Conditioning by the Legendary Jesse Cabalza thru Bombit Abad and TJT Cocking Academy

    i'm here in u.k. at the moment and i think cyanocobalamin is available here although it's hard to get a prescription as they are very srict by law. maybe someday i can get one..



    Quote Originally Posted by bombit aba
    With the highest degree of respect to the sender of the querry in regard to Rubramin or better known as Cyanocobalamin, or B12, manufactured if I remeber it right by Squibb may have been phased out or missing in the market but, the most important combination of Rubramin is that, it was with Crystalline and this makes the medicine so very potent and that it stays longer in the body. However, as to its administration & quantity, the good Doctor is in a much better position to answer the same.

    However, it is available during our time at 1000mcg./cc. Now that its gone, a good substitute to Cyanocobalamin may be those made in Germany. Like for instance, Vontabe 12 is also good. Because that is the brand used by the brother of the former Living Legend.

    But bear to mind, the best method is mastering and using your own feed formulations because vitamins is only used as supplements to enhance performance and the proper training, timing, correct weight, body conformation and the knife you use- theres so many things to consider...

    Happy Cocking!

  23. #113
    carlpoten
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    Re: Conditioning by the Legendary Jesse Cabalza thru Bombit Abad and TJT Cocking Acad

    hi sir,

    querry again. is it advisable on the night before fight day for the cocks to stay in the tipee overnight or rest them in the pen? what's your opinion about this? and on the feed on fight day, is cooked corn plus banana ok? or it should be wheat and banana only or cooked corn and pellets? do you need to add honey? thanks in advance...



    Quote Originally Posted by bombit aba
    REPLY:

    SIR(S)/GENTLEMEN:

    Moisture and/or water control indeed, is one of the most touchy issues going on for many years. And it is (my) firm and unshakable belief that the late Legendary Mr. the Honorable Jesse Cabalza, my Master and mentor told me, very emphatically that the deprivation of water will severely affect the cutting ability of a gamecock. With intensity (he) lectured, what do you think will happen even to a great athlete who is severely dehydrated?- the power will be lost, the agility will suffer and severe electrolyte imbalance will result.

    Water being the greatest solvent, on fight day or even during the pointing period by this I mean with due respects, if for example, the fight day falls on a sunday- We rest our birds at exactly 12PM thursday. And occasionally brings them out in early morning and at 2PM in a cool area in the farm for mild walking only, so that the muscles will not become stiff.

    Within the parameter of what was taught and personally done by me, under the direct instruction of Jesse Cabalza, with his original team of farm boys refering to "Jose" and Mr. Felix Gacuan (Rudy his farm boy in Antipolo was 10 years late if we based it from (my) discussion herein)- The water is only regulated by Jesse, in Saturday PM (day before the fight) at about six dips of water and on fight day, absolutely no water. However, his feeds on fight day are all cooked except, for the banana and in a container, that is moisture laiden and the feeding is graduated at (2) pecks every 30 minutes and the last feed at (2) pecks 7 fights before pitting time.

    In short, in all candidness and sincerity, Jesse never over did it. He was a genius in being able to strike balance between moisture within and drying out without over doing it. This was his method when he practically anihillated the opposition at that time. With such degree of superiority unseen up to this present day. He only lost control of the circumstances when the personal touch was gone. Because in training, as he always lectured me, the same can never be delegated.

    And these declarations hereunto given are so to speak, given under penalty of perjury and under oath therefore (thou not notarized to make it a public instrument).

    My warm regards!

  24. #114
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    Re: Conditioning by the Legendary Jesse Cabalza thru Bombit Abad and TJT Cocking Academy

    Greetings to Atty. B. Acap and Doc Teddy

    Hoping you can answer my query:

    Can you narrate the procedures of (the legendary Mr. J. Cabalza) how to point our gamecock to peak on fight day?


    Many thanks.

  25. #115
    Member garuda77's Avatar
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    Re: Conditioning by the Legendary Jesse Cabalza thru Bombit Abad and TJT Cocking Academy

    Thank you very much Sir for sharing your knowledge unselfishly to us fellow coockers. My warm regards to you and your family, Godbless.

  26. #116
    LaDy_J
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    Re: Conditioning by the Legendary Jesse Cabalza thru Bombit Abad and TJT Cocking Academy

    Bombit,

    I am really sorry to occupy you with this lot but im begging for your indulgence with the following:

    i am really pleased that you passed on priceless information as to Mr. Jesse C. conditioning methods..i.e. among others.

    But more emergent query i have in me that i have to shed out. It is reagrding the stags.
    The dates of the season are flying closer and closing in fast..

    i have trained stags before and i have my share of success but not much though to brag about(not that I do brag,but what the heck>..excuse my french )

    but what i am meaning to ask if would you advise conditioning stags the same way as cocks?

    i am anticipating some problems changing protocol with my farmhands from my instructions to them and from what they saw me did was conditioning aged cocks.which i know is totally different in approach regarding 9 month old stags. they can be a bit "fragile" at times..well ..more often to be honest.(the boys and stags both )

    im here in the UK and no amount to chikka text,Bonus cards,and webcam coverage can substitute the " touch"..which brought forth this humbling quest for assistance..



    many thanks and warm regards


    oliver
    Last edited by LaDy_J; August 24th, 2007 at 01:05 AM.

  27. #117
    Senior Member bombit aba's Avatar
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    Re: Conditioning by the Legendary Jesse Cabalza thru Bombit Abad and TJT Cocking Academy

    Quote Originally Posted by LaDy_J
    Bombit,

    I am really sorry to occupy you with this lot but im begging for your indulgence with the following:

    i am really pleased that you passed on priceless information as to Mr. Jesse C. conditioning methods..i.e. among others.

    But more emergent query i have in me that i have to shed out. It is reagrding the stags.
    The dates of the season are flying closer and closing in fast..

    i have trained stags before and i have my share of success but not much though to brag about(not that I do brag,but what the heck>..excuse my french )

    but what i am meaning to ask if would you advise conditioning stags the same way as cocks?

    i am anticipating some problems changing protocol with my farmhands from my instructions to them and from what they saw me did was conditioning aged cocks.which i know is totally different in approach regarding 9 month old stags. they can be a bit "fragile" at times..well ..more often to be honest.(the boys and stags both )

    im here in the UK and no amount to chikka text,Bonus cards,and webcam coverage can substitute the " touch"..which brought forth this humbling quest for assistance..



    many thanks and warm regards


    oliver
    REPLY:

    fIRST things first, the body conformation of the stags you are to use, must be those with solid bones. The fragile looking ones try to avoid using them early. There are chickens, gamecocks I mean, that are early maturing and there are those that are not. You can detect them thru sparring. Those that are intelligent enought to throw their legs afront with power and brains and/or style- are your best candidates. As to training the selected ones, do not baby them-train them harder and if they can witstand the rigors of training, then they can make it.

    As to their weight, do not force them to go to low weights like old birds because, they will lose their power. Stags fights better when they are at their maximum tolerable weight and structure. There is a very wrong notion that you have to bring down the weight of the Stags inorder to get the height advantage, this is wrong.

    Goodluck and Happy Cocking!

  28. #118
    Senior Member bombit aba's Avatar
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    Re: Conditioning by the Legendary Jesse Cabalza thru Bombit Abad and TJT Cocking Acad

    Quote Originally Posted by carlpoten
    hi sir,

    you mentioned on the previous page that use of 100% corn cooked is dangerous for the cock to go overweight. so are sugesting to add a bit of pellets would be advisable? in case you want to use cooked corn instead of the wheat and banana..
    REPLY:

    yEs. in fact it should be a combination of raw freshly cracked corn, cooked rice, and pellets at equal ratio. Thats the best.

    Happy Cocking!

  29. #119
    Senior Member bombit aba's Avatar
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    Re: Conditioning by the Legendary Jesse Cabalza thru Bombit Abad and TJT Cocking Acad

    Quote Originally Posted by carlpoten
    hi sir,

    querry again. is it advisable on the night before fight day for the cocks to stay in the tipee overnight or rest them in the pen? what's your opinion about this? and on the feed on fight day, is cooked corn plus banana ok? or it should be wheat and banana only or cooked corn and pellets? do you need to add honey? thanks in advance...
    REPLY:

    your asking day before the fight? meaning 2 meals before the fight during rest.
    I'll tell you this and you better believe Make 9 scoops of corn and 9 scoops of red wheat, boil it for 30 mins. then drain. Then put 3/4 saba and 3/4 egg white and 1/2 potato (semi-cooked) chopped in a manner that is palatable to the bird. And, 1/2 pack small of raisins chopped to a size of a green pea. Period. Tapos na sila, yari sila! hehehe

    Put the bird inside a pen (mosquito free), not the teepee night before the fight day.

    Happy Cocking!

  30. #120
    Senior Member bombit aba's Avatar
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    Re: Conditioning by the Legendary Jesse Cabalza thru Bombit Abad and TJT Cocking Academy

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxFly
    Greetings to Atty. B. Acap and Doc Teddy

    Hoping you can answer my query:

    Can you narrate the procedures of (the legendary Mr. J. Cabalza) how to point our gamecock to peak on fight day?


    Many thanks.
    REPLY:

    With all due respects, I have to ask permission first from the family.
    Hope you understand.

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