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Thread: how do mexicans condition and point their birds

  
  1. #1
    Senior Member A1GFarms's Avatar
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    Smile how do mexicans condition and point their birds

    do they do the 21 or 14 or 7 or 1 day condition.........how do they point them too......i ve seen one honcho drink a beer and spit it on the birds face before the show instead of water.........one dude bicycled and criss - cross the feet as warm up before also.....any mexican members out there.........share some moves to us pinoys also.......its all good.

  2. #2
    Senior Member bajaexplor's Avatar
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    Re: how do mexicans condition and point their birds

    We use a standard 21 day carboloading program. In fact we use a modified Warparty Keep.

    It depends on what we are fighting, a fastest kill tournament of a maximum five minutes duration contest, or a three, four, or five cock event using the maximum fifteen minute duration contest.. Conditioning is a little different, when we fight Asil Grades. We don't want them overly muscled up and as a result, slow.

    In terms of pointing, we want the birds dry and empty, excretions the size of a dime and slightly sticky to the touch, are right for us, with our American Bred Fowl. For the Asil Grades we treat them entirely differently. But, with all breeds we give a piece of banana every two hours to hold point the day of the contest.

    I hope this was informative.

    Baja

  3. #3
    SKheeler
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    Re: how do mexicans condition and point their birds

    Most mexican cocker i know use a 14 day keep.We work our bird for 10 straight days and let them rest for 4 days.I use buttermilk and cracked corn with some honey as the pointing feed for the last 3 days leading up to the fight.I let the cocks have some sips of water early i the mornin on fight day and give em apple every hour after i turn in weights to keep him wet and on point, especially in the summer.

  4. #4
    Senior Member bajaexplor's Avatar
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    Re: how do mexicans condition and point their birds

    SKheeler,

    You are getting closer to correct, but no cigar. I can see that you have been doing some reading. Why don't you just read and learn instead of attempting to exhibit knowledge and prowess that isn't there. You are still an amateur if you are even a cockfighter. I have serious doubts. Additionally, quit speaking for the Mexican Cockfighting Community as a whole. Why don't you take some birds, go across the border, and fight them. Do this for a while and we might be able to call you a cockfighter !

    Baja
    Los Cabos
    Mexico

  5. #5
    Senior Member swtrhtch1925's Avatar
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    Re: how do mexicans condition and point their birds

    Quote Originally Posted by SKheeler
    Most mexican cocker i know use a 14 day keep.We work our bird for 10 straight days and let them rest for 4 days.I use buttermilk and cracked corn with some honey as the pointing feed for the last 3 days leading up to the fight.I let the cocks have some sips of water early i the mornin on fight day and give em apple every hour after i turn in weights to keep him wet and on point, especially in the summer.

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    Member TIMEX's Avatar
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    Re: how do mexicans condition and point their birds

    It has to start with the infamous 365 days a year keep. If you have good cutting roosters then stick to as close to natural as possible. In my opinion the best way to work cocks for the mexican one inch knife is 20 DAYS PRIOR TO THE FIGHT put them in a large fly pen 2 meters long 1 meter wide with a roost pole 2 meters high. 3 inches of hay on the floor and feed a few grains in the mornig prior to feeding let them scratch for two hours then move to a tie cord preferably on the grass keep ther for two hous then return to fly pen. you may have to make them run for a few minutes until they seem (a little) tired and turn them on their backs three or four times so they can learn to get up quickly if on their backs. do this the first 16 days next two days fly pen only last two days complete rest last day black them out ( kep in a dark cool place) Keep them healthy, well fed and free of parasites. I dont flirt or do tail pulls I try to keep as natural as possible. Works for me.

  7. #7
    Senior Member bajaexplor's Avatar
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    Re: how do mexicans condition and point their birds

    Timex,

    Our program is very similar to yours and it works for us, as well.

    Baja
    Last edited by bajaexplor; June 24th, 2007 at 03:21 AM.

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    Re: how do mexicans condition and point their birds

    Quote Originally Posted by TIMEX
    It has to start with the infamous 365 days a year keep. If you have good cutting roosters then stick to as close to natural as possible. In my opinion the best way to work cocks for the mexican one inch knife is 20 DAYS PRIOR TO THE FIGHT put them in a large fly pen 2 meters long 1 meter wide with a roost pole 2 meters high. 3 inches of hay on the floor and feed a few grains in the mornig prior to feeding let them scratch for two hours then move to a tie cord preferably on the grass keep ther for two hous then return to fly pen. you may have to make them run for a few minutes until they seem (a little) tired and turn them on their backs three or four times so they can learn to get up quickly if on their backs. do this the first 16 days next two days fly pen only last two days complete rest last day black them out ( kep in a dark cool place) Keep them healthy, well fed and free of parasites. I dont flirt or do tail pulls I try to keep as natural as possible. Works for me.
    GOOD POST TIMEX

  9. #9
    damodatsme
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    Re: how do mexicans condition and point their birds

    woudent it be better to keep them them on straw or wood shavings as they absorb moisture better and when hay gets wet it goes bad quickly and gives of spores which can be harmful to the birds

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    Member TIMEX's Avatar
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    Re: how do mexicans condition and point their birds

    Thanks BAJA EXPLORER I also base my keep on "Warparty's Keep" I wish I knew the Man Personaly he seems to know the game cock business and does not mind sharing his knowledge.

    By the way Have you heard the name Ildefonso Green in your part of the woods. He was my great great grandfather.

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    Re: how do mexicans condition and point their birds

    *** *** ***

    Quote Originally Posted by SKheeler
    Most mexican cocker i know use a 14 day keep.We work our bird for 10 straight days and let them rest for 4 days.I use buttermilk and cracked corn with some honey as the pointing feed for the last 3 days leading up to the fight.I let the cocks have some sips of water early i the mornin on fight day and give em apple every hour after i turn in weights to keep him wet and on point, especially in the summer.

  12. #12
    aterr21
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    Re: how do mexicans condition and point their birds

    yup it a 21 day keep we use the coaches keep and change it around a little bit

  13. #13
    Senior Member bajaexplor's Avatar
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    Re: how do mexicans condition and point their birds

    Hola Timex,

    There is a family by the name of Green that has about 400 or more Hectares just outside of Cabo San Lucas. It is beach front and a very valuable piece of ground ! I don't know them personaly, though !

    Mexico is a great place to be a Cockfighter....................................... ..

    Saludos,
    Baja

  14. #14
    Senior Member SHORTKNIFE's Avatar
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    Re: how do mexicans condition and point their birds

    Quote Originally Posted by TIMEX
    It has to start with the infamous 365 days a year keep. If you have good cutting roosters then stick to as close to natural as possible. In my opinion the best way to work cocks for the mexican one inch knife is 20 DAYS PRIOR TO THE FIGHT put them in a large fly pen 2 meters long 1 meter wide with a roost pole 2 meters high. 3 inches of hay on the floor and feed a few grains in the mornig prior to feeding let them scratch for two hours then move to a tie cord preferably on the grass keep ther for two hous then return to fly pen. you may have to make them run for a few minutes until they seem (a little) tired and turn them on their backs three or four times so they can learn to get up quickly if on their backs. do this the first 16 days next two days fly pen only last two days complete rest last day black them out ( kep in a dark cool place) Keep them healthy, well fed and free of parasites. I dont flirt or do tail pulls I try to keep as natural as possible. Works for me.
    bro. that's almost the same method my trainer do except for back flipping...and i don't know about you guys but me i wan't my bird atleast 2-3 oz. heavy than usual...

    one thing i don't wan't though is during heating up of the bird,i feel the bird spends to much energy while being heated,that's why i always instruct my handler to just have the bird be pecked and 2 or three hits in the back and then just keep the mona (patuka)flapping in front of the bird to keep him awake and focus...
    just me...

  15. #15
    Senior Member SHORTKNIFE's Avatar
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    Re: how do mexicans condition and point their birds

    Quote Originally Posted by bajaexplor
    Hola Timex,

    There is a family by the name of Green that has about 400 or more Hectares just outside of Cabo San Lucas. It is beach front and a very valuable piece of ground ! I don't know them personaly, though !

    Mexico is a great place to be a Cockfighter....................................... ..

    Saludos,
    Baja
    Compa how's the Palenque in Rosarito?...

  16. #16
    Senior Member bajaexplor's Avatar
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    Re: how do mexicans condition and point their birds

    Grey man may know when the next Pelenque will be held in Rosarita. He is from Southern Cal and fights is those parts. We are 950 miles south of there and don't hear much from up north.
    YFIS
    Baja

  17. #17
    Senior Member bajaexplor's Avatar
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    Re: how do mexicans condition and point their birds

    Timex,

    I would like to hear more about your results with the Warparty Keep and compare notes. One important factor that we found is that when cut, our birds blead very little. Thus, they maintained strength and won fights when injured. We are fighting next July 13 and 15 with two seperate entries.

    It is the better method that we have found to date.

    This man, Warparty, is truly a gentleman !

    Baja
    los Cabos
    Mexico

  18. #18
    Member TIMEX's Avatar
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    Re: how do mexicans condition and point their birds

    Hola Baja Explorer. The Greens in Cabos are my relatives Even though I don't know most of them. I only know one of the Greens in Tijuana and a couple more in Mexicali. I'll be glad to exchange info regarding Warparty's Keep and how I have modified it to suit my needs. Also, I live in San Diego so I will tryt to get the dates for the Feria de Rosarito. I know it is held in August but I will get the exact dates for you by next week.

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    Senior Member A1GFarms's Avatar
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    Smile Re: how do mexicans condition and point their birds

    changing of the SK in the middle of the show - why u guys do it - explain it to the pinoys so they know some of ur rules...another is covering of the head in the final moments....how u guys declare the winners too.......puting lot of white powder in the breaks........unlike in the PI - we just release the birds and the ref does their job...........easy and simple.....i like it when my handler chiquito do his thing ...thats so cool...how many times we got hit first but were able to bounce back .... whats the percentage role of the handlers in the sk show....i admit its tough...holding em birds wihtout the sk cover and positioning em again up close and personal with the other bird too........u guys dive and get down and dirty.....thats awesome.
    Last edited by A1GFarms; June 24th, 2007 at 02:08 PM.

  20. #20
    Senior Member bajaexplor's Avatar
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    Re: how do mexicans condition and point their birds

    AIGFarms.

    One of the Mexican Rules is the ability the referee/Judge to check the knife for damage during the fight. This done at the request of the handler who believes the knife to be damaged. If the Referee/judge finds the knife to to damaged it can be changed. Can also be used as a stratedgy to buy time, but, is unethical in my book.

    Another Important Mexican Rule , How the winner is determined, The first bird that puts head down and beak in the dirt is the loser. Of couurse, if one bird is stone dead it is obvious. It is not generally required that the winning bird peck, although, I have seen this done on rare occasions. Always contoversial .

    Handlers, they have a very important role in the Mexican Cockfight, making decisions that will result in winning of losing the fight. For example, when in the drag, the handler has the option of sitting the bird or standing the bird at he outer edge of the box located in the center of the Arena (Ring), Note: the box is like the batters box in baseball, a chalked outline. On the referees command, the handlers release their bird. A sitting bird is waiting for the other bird to put his beak in the dirt. A standing bird is ready to attack. This is when stratedgy comes into play remembering that that the first bird to put his beak into the dirt loses.... I probably did not explain this well.

    I have not seen the white powder you are describing and we go to the Pelenque weekly.

    Putting the hand to cover the birds head. This is not what it appears. The handler is really blocking the view of his bird, it is a distraction so the he will not attack and sit as positioned. Used in the drag. This technique is used when you do not want your bird to attack, but sit, and wait for the other bird to put his head down beak in the dirt. If the time expires, and both birds have their heads up, it is a tabla (draw).

    If you read the rules in detail, it is a little more specific, but, this is the jest of the Rules. The decision of the referee/judge is irrevocable.

    The decisions of a good handler are very important and can detrrmine if you leave with money or pockets empty !

    I hope this helps !

    Baja
    Last edited by bajaexplor; June 25th, 2007 at 08:18 AM.

  21. #21
    Senior Member grey man's Avatar
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    Re: how do mexicans condition and point their birds

    Baja man whats up? Long time no chat. Hope your doing well. Good job explaining the rules for the Mexican Short Knife. You basically hit the nail on the head. Hows your showing up their?

  22. #22
    dogmancarter
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    Re: how do mexicans condition and point their birds

    do u use the same keep for sk as for naked heel

  23. #23
    SKheeler
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    Re: how do mexicans condition and point their birds

    mexican sk rules and the sk rules used in the states are very different.Here if the birds beak touches the ground 3 consecutive times without the bird breaking he loses.Being able to change the knife is a stupid rule, it ridiculous.If the other bird is pouring and yours is also hurt you can request a knife change and wait for the other bird to bleed to death, fu cking stupid.American sk rules are better than mex rules.Flirts are very good in sk keeps.

  24. #24
    SKheeler
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    Re: how do mexicans condition and point their birds

    Quote Originally Posted by dogmancarter
    do u use the same keep for sk as for naked heel
    HELL NO ARE YOU CRAZY!!sk fights last seconds, NH fights last hours!!!

  25. #25
    Senior Member bajaexplor's Avatar
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    Re: how do mexicans condition and point their birds

    Skheeler,

    Why don't you use your wisdom and expertise to write and publish new rules for the sk. I am sure that it would be a hit. Maybe, you can sell videos of safe knife tying as well. You did a bang up job of tying the knife on the amputed chicken leg. It is much safer that way. What would we do without you skheeler, or is it Earless 846 or a multitude of other user names.

    By the way, how many chickens do you have and how many times have you fought this year.

    Baja

  26. #26
    SKheeler
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    Re: how do mexicans condition and point their birds

    Quote Originally Posted by bajaexplor
    Skheeler,

    Why don't you use your wisdom and expertise to write and publish new rules for the sk. I am sure that it would be a hit. Maybe, you can sell videos of safe knife tying as well. You did a bang up job of tying the knife on the amputed chicken leg. It is much safer that way. What would we do without you skheeler, or is it Earless 846 or a multitude of other user names.

    By the way, how many chickens do you have and how many times have you fought this year.

    Baja
    I have about 25 roosters and have fought 16, with a record of 7-9 all hack fights.This is my first year of fighting, last year when i got into the sport all i did was breed. i taught myself how to tie the sk with the amputated leg in my video, and also learned how to condition and point the birds thru the internet and at the pits.Im doing alot better now, in my last 5 fights im 4-1.Changin the knife in the middle of a fight is as stupid a rule as it gets and you know it.

  27. #27
    Senior Member bajaexplor's Avatar
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    Re: how do mexicans condition and point their birds

    Rules are the Rules Kid. They have been around a lot longer than you and I. I don't think they will change, just because you don't like them.

    Regarding the Asil out of Florida, If it came from where I stated before, don't waste your time.

    Just a word of wisdom. If you quit being so opinionated, people will be more accepting of you. You already have a bad rep ! A year is very little time, to learn the ropes in this sport.

    Take the Wisdom of the Old Time Cockers and put it to use. There aren't many new ideas here, just old ones restated !

    Baja
    Last edited by bajaexplor; June 26th, 2007 at 12:42 AM.

  28. #28
    vakeroo
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    Re: how do mexicans condition and point their birds

    Ok, I see a little debate whether it is right or wrong to change knives in Mexican Rules. In Mexico, according to the National Section of Game fowl Breeders and Poultry Farming, the Rules to fight roosters with knives cover the change of knives. These are the articles that cover the conditions to change the knife while the roosters are fighting:

    Article 73. The handlers will only get close to the rooster to check visually if the tie string is present and if the knife is broken. If the handler assures that his rooster does not have tie string or that the knife is broken, previous permit from the judge of arena, he could pick up his rooster. The other handler should pick up or immobilize his rooster also. In the case that the handler is right, the judge will allow the change of tie string or knife, whatever the case might be. If it is a change of knife, the other handler can do it too, but if it is only string, then it wonít be done by the other handler. If the handler picks up his rooster without authorization and it is not true his expose cause, the judge of arena will penalize him, and as punishment, he will take the rooster and lay him over his wing, so the back of the rooster will face the other rooster and its head will face the side of leg of the knife tied on the other rooster, from a distance no less than 30 centimeters. The opponent handler could peck his rooster if he finds it convenient.

    This punishment will also be applied when a handler picks up his rooster without authorization of the judge of arena without a justified cause, with bad intentions, or convenience. If the handler rincide in such attitude, he will be suspended and the judge will determine his loss, applying the punishment stated in article 82, section A.

    Article 82. The punishments and penalties that the violators will be accredited are:
    a) It will be punished and advised that if it is repeated every fault, it will be suspended for the rest of the session, making effective the suspension in case of violation of the rules.
    b) It will be charged with the amount of a minimum monthly salary.
    c) It will be suspended for six months.
    d) It will be suspended for one year.

    The reason why it is allowed to change the knife is because, while competing, the roosters must be fighting in all fair environment and conditions at all times. This will diminish the possibility of unfair treatment to any rooster while fighting. In Mexico, the rules were not created thinking of the people showing the roosters, the rules were created thinking of the roosters and the fairness of the combat, and not thinking of the money involved. Remember that it is a sport, and not a gambling environment. Letís move on people, it is a sport and not business! I would never want my roosters to be fighting in disadvantage. You can use the best knives and the best equipment, but you can never predict what happens while fighting, thatís why these rules are created. There are 93 articles that cover how to legally fight roosters, and they do not leave anything aside, including proper handling. I doubt SKHeeler knows a single one of them.

    Allow me to say that these rules were not created by people who fought roosters for one year, they were created after many conferences and debates of old time experienced cockfighters. Rules are the rules!

    Letís get back to the original topic of this postÖ

  29. #29
    Senior Member bajaexplor's Avatar
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    Re: how do mexicans condition and point their birds

    Vakaroo,

    Very good and informative Post !

    Baja
    Los Cabos
    Mexico

  30. #30
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    Re: how do mexicans condition and point their birds

    bajaexplor, in Zacatecas and some parts of Jalisco Mexico they stop changing knifes in the middle of the fight because it is to controversial. Personally i don't like that rule either.

    thank you,

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