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Thread: Shortgaff Cockfighting

  
  1. #91
    Senior Member gaff's Avatar
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    Re: Shortgaff Cockfighting

    Here's another one to our friend that was looking.....bump!

  2. #92
    Member realgame's Avatar
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    Re: Short Gaff

    [QUOTE=gaff;4344753]You can use your birds in short gaff if you cross them with jap or asil to toughen them up and add some size. It's tricky finding the right orientals for gaff though.
    Use the 1/2 1/2 hens under a Hatch cock is also a good cross.
    There is a short gaff thread I'll bump it up if I can find it.[/QUOT
    Lets say i used my poztiza fowl as the asil, and put BC(postiza)to BH(american)get best stag put back with Mother and take it from ther.. I think the more American the best for this weapon.. or might be best put BC(american)to BH(poztiza)..I know there is only one way to find out

  3. #93
    Senior Member gaff's Avatar
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    Re: Short Gaff

    Yep you can try different combinations and you can use your fowl that you know and trust in different proportions.
    Ive seen roosters from1/2 asil 1/2 Spanish pullets with a Hatch daddy and they had it all. I bumped up two threads for you. Have a look.

  4. #94
    Senior Member Outlaw greys's Avatar
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    Re: Short Gaff

    All of the old lines were bred for short heels roundheads dominated after they become popular good game cutters is what you need regaurdless of breed,name or color

  5. #95
    Member realgame's Avatar
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    Re: Short Gaff

    [QUOTE=Outlaw greys;4344906]All of the old lines were bred for short heels roundheads dominated after they become popular good game cutters is what you need regaurdless of breed,name or color[/QUOTE
    I know what you are saying, I have read about the generals, but I think I would like to go with Butcher or Hatch as my foundation, I sure do like those black velcros, or some black hatch be nice..I have read here that if I use a butcher hen i will loose station, I dont have the space to have a trio just a small place at my friends where he keeps the potiza fowl he doesn't own any American pures or maybe too little on his crosses so all i need its just a pair to cross,and just to shown in the poultry shows im getting to know around cold new england... also from 1 inch and under 2 inches is considered short heel...Thanks
    Renso

  6. #96
    Senior Member Outlaw greys's Avatar
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    Re: Short Gaff

    I personally would go with murphys or north britons power, cut and GAME to the core

  7. #97
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    Re: Short Gaff

    Butchers as well as the Speeders were developed for the short heel. Of course there are other breeds that do just as well inthe short heel....Whitehackles,Muffs,Greys,Hatch,etc.
    Mark M

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  9. #98
    Member realgame's Avatar
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    Re: Shortgaff Cockfighting

    Thanks guys for your replies, I need to know more about the short heel since I met some poultry people around New England, but they want me to earn my membership, thats why I want to start with the right fowl, and butcher it is. now if I can find the right cross(for the right feathers), or maybe I dont need to and show them pure, also what station do i look for for short heel.
    Thanks for your patience
    Renso.

  10. #99
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    Re: Shortgaff Cockfighting

    Quote Originally Posted by realgame View Post
    Thanks guys for your replies, I need to know more about the short heel since I met some poultry people around New England, but they want me to earn my membership, thats why I want to start with the right fowl, and butcher it is. now if I can find the right cross(for the right feathers), or maybe I dont need to and show them pure, also what station do i look for for short heel.
    Thanks for your patience
    Renso.
    A medium stationed power bred bird would do well in short heel.

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  12. #100
    Member realgame's Avatar
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    Re: Shortgaff Cockfighting

    I have seen some drawings here that shows how to tie the long heel, and one heel is more in than the other heel, its that the same with short heel or its just like poztiza, also how would you choose the right gaff Im asking this bcause I see in the long heel there are many types, and there is more info about long heel than short, Any info about this type of fowl or this weapon is greatly appreciated, this is for historical purposes only.
    Thanks
    Renso

  13. #101
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    Re: Shortgaff Cockfighting

    Hi John, I thought they closed your account here(lol)... I say this bcause I had questions for you and find out you were no longer here. I will pm you if you dont mind. So you test with 1 inch gaff(when legal)because someone here said there is no 1 inch gaff only for miniature fowl, but you said in your area its regulation.Im in Ct. shoveling snow trying to clean up after the snow storm we had last week and this morning we had more snow here about another 3 inches its getting tough to raise in New England, but cant wait to get my pair of fowl in about 2 weeks first time im going to own pure American Im getting what I want from the best, so gameness it would not be an issue it depends on me with care and feed thats why im trying to learn as much as I can so when I get my hands on the job I can have a good idea, if you dont mind asking what type of condition do you recommend for this type of weapon, im thinking it have to be like my poztiza fowl long sparring and bench work, I also like the Narraganset condition method, any recommendation its appreciated.
    Renso

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  15. #102
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    Re: Shortgaff Cockfighting

    Dear Sir, I am interested in knowing if Miniature Games are being played in the Islands too. I have recently started breeding them myself. I like fooling with them and they are game birds too. Bill Ray

  16. #103
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    Re: Shortgaff Cockfighting

    Quote Originally Posted by Sentenciador View Post
    What are the bloodlines used in short heel? Hatch, Whitehackle, Butcher, I assume.

    Aside from gameness and cutting, what other attributes does one look for in breeding short heel fowl? I think stamina is important here? What else?

    Thank you!
    Bottom end power and highly conditioned

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  18. #104
    Senior Member cutcutcut's Avatar
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    Re: Shortgaff Cockfighting

    Testing with short heels on the farm will reveal strengths and weaknesses within your gamefowl families, crosses and individuals. Short heels are a good culling tool, that many are afraid to use. Maybe, they already know what they are feeding? Personally, I wouldn't discriminate by family, cross or individual, tie on some short heels and take a closer look at what you're feeding. Don't be surprised when you identify some naturals, and if you're not quick enough you might lose both birds during that first buckle or pitting.
    Sweaters, I had the Dink 5K sweaters years ago and they were very good in American shows and could have been shown in short heels through selection, crossed with Dinks Albany, I used the Albany hen for this cross, they were even better in the gaff, always wanting to win. Something, you'd like when you saw it.

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  20. #105
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    Re: Shortgaff Cockfighting

    Quote Originally Posted by top_signature View Post
    When I watched it in Kentucky I got bored because its about 15 to 30 minutes per fight and is really so boring. I'm not sure if it is the cock that has a problem or the Gaffs because I talked to someone from New Mexico who's into short knife and told me that in New Mexico shortknife lasts less than 10 minutes and some fights were only between 6 to 10 seconds. That's all I can share...maybe someone here will provide you videos of the fight.


    cheers!
    In my experience this this is not true. I have seen many wins in the first couple of flys. I have also seen 45 min drag fights. The pit provides the heel and they are always one and quarter inch regulations. Regulations donít hang as often as a lot of the long heels down south. Just my experience in short heels

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  22. #106
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    Re: Shortgaff Cockfighting

    Just from what I've seen most sweater fight fast to start with then faded fast .short heel roosters must have lasting power and the ability to take punishment if they not dead game you will find out quick with the shorts

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  24. #107
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    Re: Shortgaff Cockfighting

    All I can say is if you have fowl that can't cut it's going to be slow no matter what you tie on.
    You want to see how slow short heels are? If you know someone that has a family of good cutting fowl invite him over for a little cull main with short heels. Best bet on him though hahaha.
    If you have cutting fowl get yourself a couple pair and heel up some culls. Don't do it with anything that's valuable because in my experience it ain't going too last long.

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  26. #108
    Senior Member turbo_harpoon's Avatar
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    Re: Shortgaff Cockfighting

    Back in the day, what we considered short heel were 1.5 in. Now I know some of you dont consider that SH. But I have done as much of 1 as the other and I will tell you what I observed. In 1.5 in I have seen derbies run like clockwork, fast fights with few to almost NO drag fights. I know for 100% certain that the better cock in the shorter heel is the great cutting busy speed fowl. The hard hitting power cock gets punched full of holes and coupled in 2 pittings. Head hunters are not any good against good body cutter either. You want a quick footed cutter.
    Now this is a point I want to make as far as gameness. The LH is a better indicator than the SH, as the deep cutting is absent in the SH fight.

  27. #109
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    Re: Shortgaff Cockfighting

    Quote Originally Posted by turbo_harpoon View Post
    Back in the day, what we considered short heel were 1.5 in. Now I know some of you dont consider that SH. But I have done as much of 1 as the other and I will tell you what I observed. In 1.5 in I have seen derbies run like clockwork, fast fights with few to almost NO drag fights. I know for 100% certain that the better cock in the shorter heel is the great cutting busy speed fowl. The hard hitting power cock gets punched full of holes and coupled in 2 pittings. Head hunters are not any good against good body cutter either. You want a quick footed cutter.
    Now this is a point I want to make as far as gameness. The LH is a better indicator than the SH, as the deep cutting is absent in the SH fight.
    Both heels really do test gameness well don't they? I think short heels has the potential to test well because of the beating they can take and in some cases endurance ( though anyone thats been in the drag for an hour in long heels can relate also), but theres no doubt steel way down deep will really test them better than anything ​IMO

  28. #110
    Senior Member rev-23's Avatar
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    Re: Shortgaff Cockfighting

    I know a guy that cut em down and blunted em. That's how he tested gameness.

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  30. #111
    Senior Member turbo_harpoon's Avatar
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    Re: Shortgaff Cockfighting

    Everyone is different in their definition of GAME. I think it is being deep cut and able to hang in there over a long duration. I have seen supposed very game naked heel birds run in the heel in less than 5 min. Time without deep cutting is not Deep game to me.
    And I am a person that does not think that there is such a thing dead game families anymore..Dead game individuals yes, Families NO.

  31. #112
    Senior Member turbo_harpoon's Avatar
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    Re: Shortgaff Cockfighting

    In answer to your question,,Yes they both test gameness. If I had to choose to fight one weapon it would be 1.5 in SH.. I like it better. However the lack of deep cutting will leave you with the question is he really that game. LH proves more in that instance. No deep cutting. No deep gameness proven.
    Quote Originally Posted by peter g View Post
    Both heels really do test gameness well don't they? I think short heels has the potential to test well because of the beating they can take and in some cases endurance ( though anyone thats been in the drag for an hour in long heels can relate also), but theres no doubt steel way down deep will really test them better than anything ​IMO

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  33. #113
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    Re: Shortgaff Cockfighting

    Quote Originally Posted by rev-23 View Post
    I know a guy that cut em down and blunted em. That's how he tested gameness.
    That's like peg awl, 1" -to 1 1\4 usually 1 1\8 not sharp but not plumb blunted either. I want a couple sets of those Belgian peg awls for historical purposes.

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  35. #114
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    Re: Shortgaff Cockfighting

    Quote Originally Posted by turbo_harpoon View Post
    Back in the day, what we considered short heel were 1.5 in. Now I know some of you dont consider that SH. But I have done as much of 1 as the other and I will tell you what I observed. In 1.5 in I have seen derbies run like clockwork, fast fights with few to almost NO drag fights. I know for 100% certain that the better cock in the shorter heel is the great cutting busy speed fowl. The hard hitting power cock gets punched full of holes and coupled in 2 pittings. Head hunters are not any good against good body cutter either. You want a quick footed cutter.
    Now this is a point I want to make as far as gameness. The LH is a better indicator than the SH, as the deep cutting is absent in the SH fight.
    Sir you are right about cutting fowl but a 1.5 is a long heel. I belong too two different clubs 1.5 and 1.25. We use body cutters in 1.5 and head hunters in 1.25. It would be tough for your long heel fowl. When they are blind in both eyes and bleeding from the jugular.

    Ill tell all you a story about JoeZ. He and my buddy were going to Puerto Rico in the seventies. Joe talked the big time Spanish guys into fighting 1.25. Joe made a good % of them run. Then he went back and fought his white hackles in postiza. The Spanish fowl one.

    I have seen guys try their long heel fowl in short. As a matter of fact a man from Jersey came up and fought a 9 cock main into my buddy’s. He did not win a fight.

    Im not stupid enough to take my short heel fowl south either. I have fowl for that

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  37. #115
    Senior Member turbo_harpoon's Avatar
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    Re: Shortgaff Cockfighting

    I have a couple of 1.5 stories of derbies But I don't want to angry anybody up. I have seen families of short heel birds quit in the LH. Which surprised me at the time. I have never fought 1.25" So I have no opinion on that. However I have seen headhunters in every other kind of steel weapon. And you couldn't run fast enough to give me any.
    Quote Originally Posted by BostonMurphy View Post
    Sir you are right about cutting fowl but a 1.5 is a long heel. I belong too two different clubs 1.5 and 1.25. We use body cutters in 1.5 and head hunters in 1.25. It would be tough for your long heel fowl. When they are blind in both eyes and bleeding from the jugular.

    Ill tell all you a story about JoeZ. He and my buddy were going to Puerto Rico in the seventies. Joe talked the big time Spanish guys into fighting 1.25. Joe made a good % of them run. Then he went back and fought his white hackles in postiza. The Spanish fowl one.

    I have seen guys try their long heel fowl in short. As a matter of fact a man from Jersey came up and fought a 9 cock main into my buddy’s. He did not win a fight.

    Im not stupid enough to take my short heel fowl south either. I have fowl for that

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  39. #116
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    Re: Shortgaff Cockfighting

    Turbo I'm the same I say sk is 1 1/2" but 1 1/4" may be way different. I remember Dad and my brother and Iwa Ted to test the gameness we taped the gaff except a 1/2". The first stag killed two before we could catch him.

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  41. #117
    Senior Member turbo_harpoon's Avatar
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    Re: Shortgaff Cockfighting

    I have had fellows beat me in Arizona using real short gaffs. I had a 4 time winner LH whipped by a button stag with 1 1/2" (at most) jagger gaffs. My cock could not touch that stag. Cost me the derby, That was some year, winning the first 4 and then figuring out some way to lose the last. Cant buy groceries with a good winning %...
    Quote Originally Posted by LaBlue View Post
    Turbo I'm the same I say sk is 1 1/2" but 1 1/4" may be way different. I remember Dad and my brother and Iwa Ted to test the gameness we taped the gaff except a 1/2". The first stag killed two before we could catch him.

  42. #118
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    Re: Shortgaff Cockfighting

    While a 1 1/4" may not go as deep as a long heel they will reach any vital area that a long heel can....heart, lungs, etc. It also takes a very game cock to take the constant cutting to the head and neck area that a short heel does. If you really want to test the gameness of your fowl try using a pair of the old slow heels/peg awls or the Intermediates which are 1 1/8". And you better bring your power fowl if you have any hope of winning in these heels.

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  44. #119
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    Re: Shortgaff Cockfighting

    Quote Originally Posted by blackdeath View Post
    Basically, in addition to the fowls you mention, all families of fowl bred the Northeastern areas of the US were fought in short heels, 1 1/4" gaffs. The Boston roundheads, brownred families such as the Kearney brownreds, John Stones, and other Irish brownred families, the Albanys, Shawlnecks. This list goes on. And yes, stamina, gameness, and power-power- power were desirable traits. I started out fighting in this heel and loved it. I was fighting Gleezen Whitehackles and the old C C Cooke Preacher Blueface. The longer the fight went, the better they got, and the better I liked it. If it went to the drag pit and my rooster was on his feet, those two old short heel families were had to beat. You had to kill every feather on them, and you didn't give up on them 'til they were dead. They could win with their dying lick. Power
    It has been decades since I have heard of preacher Hatch. How are your old breeds holding up?

  45. #120
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    Re: Shortgaff Cockfighting

    Quote Originally Posted by BostonMurphy View Post
    In my experience this this is not true. I have seen many wins in the first couple of flys. I have also seen 45 min drag fights. The pit provides the heel and they are always one and quarter inch regulations. Regulations don’t hang as often as a lot of the long heels down south. Just my experience in short heels

    Short Gaff is the ultimate way to test fowl,when legal of course.
    fastest fights I’ve seen were in the sg.
    little to no hanging ,cut,cut,cut. Absolutely awesome to see. When legal of course.

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