Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: History of Some Blood Lines

  
  1. #1
    SkYLine
    Guest

    History of Some Blood Lines

    REDQUILLS
    by Redquill Rooster
    Long ago and far away, in England, there lived a family of cockfighters The Elsins or Eslins, which ever you prefer. This family owned a strain of terrific leg fighting fowl with unexcelled speed, topping, and cutting ability. By topping I mean that they were very seldom if ever topped. They always started fast and ferocious, shuffling and cutting their opponent to pieces. If they did not win quickly they usually did not win at all. The fowl came to a bright red-orange in color, with black over brown spangles on their chests. One other mark that will come out in greater detail later in this history is their large jet black eyes.

    Anyway, the Eslin fowl, Redhorse, were starting to come smaller and more nervous as inbreeding went on. Obviously what was needed was a cross of a different blood. The Eslins procured a power strain of fowl called Redquills from a family named Winans, who lived in Baltimore. They crossed this strain on their Redhorses.

    Incidentally, the Redquills had red eyes and usually came yellow legged. They were long winged and had lots of stamina. Their tails were jet black (the Redhorse had bronze tails). However, it should be noted that this first cross (1/2 Quill - 1/2 Redhorse) was not, repeat, NOT very good. So they crossed the Redquill blood down to a quarter or less, and came up with the Eslin Redquills.

    Today, pure Eslin blood is hard to find, and also it should be known that the pure Winan blood is GONE. So, anybody who claims to have pure Redquill, and their fowl are red eyed and just red or brown-red in color, does not, repeat DOES NOT have pure Redquill. It just is not so.

    I hope this will answer questions and also shed light on the grand old strain of Eslin Red quills
    Last edited by SkYLine; February 23rd, 2008 at 04:48 AM.

  2. #2
    SkYLine
    Guest

    Re: History of Some Blood Lines

    Sweaters
    by Johnny Jumper

    One of the breeds of gamefowl most in demand today are the "Sweaters". There are several versions of how they originated. The following account of their origin is "straight from the horse's mouth". It comes from Johnny Jumper and another respected cocker who knew the parent fowl; when, where and by whom they were bred. The following is their version how the Sweaters originated.
    Sweater McGinnis gave Walter Kelso a yellow legged Hatch cock whose bloodlines are thought to trace back to Harold Browns McLean Hatch. Mr. Kelso bred this cock to his Kelso hens and the offspring from the mating proved to be outstanding pit cocks.
    Cecil Davis, who was a friend of Mr. Kelso, walked cocks for him and had access to Mr. Kelso's best fowl. Cecil got one of the cocks which Mr. Kelso raised from the Sweater McGinnis Hatch cock and his own hens. Cecil got this cock from Doc Robinson, who also walked cocks for Mr. Kelso. The cock was yellow legged and pea combed. Cecil bred him to five of his out-and-out Kelso hens. The offspring from this mating were the foundation of the Sweaters. They were called Sweaters because the Hatch cock from Sweater McGinnis was their grandfather. As the above indicates, in breeding, they would be Kelso- yellow legged Hatch.
    The original Sweaters were bred by Ira Parks, who was Johnny Jumper's brother-in-law, a very fine man and an excellent breeder of gamefowl. Ira, Johnny and Cecil were at the hub of a group of cockers in northern Mississippi and Tennessee who were friends and cocking partners. Several of this group got Sweaters from the original mating. Some of these friends have bred the Sweaters without addition of outside blood and have them in their purity today. Other breeders have added infusions of other blood to their Sweaters.
    The line of Sweaters which is bringing the breed such popularity today came from Roy Brady, who got some of the first mating of Sweaters, to Sonny Ware, to Odis Chappell, to Carol Nesmith and the Browns of Mississippi. Odis Chappell let a number of friends in addition to Carol, have his Sweaters, so the blood has been distributed rather widely in central Alabama in recent years. It has been excellent blood for all who got it. This line of Sweaters produces occasional green legged offspring, usually pullets. When asked about his, Roy Brady said that at one time some Hatch was bred into this line. This line is said also to carry small amount of Radio blood.
    The Sweaters described in this article are typically orange-red to light red in color, with yellow legs and pea combs. Of interest, however, Dolan Owens of Booneville, Mississippi, acquired some of the early Sweaters and has bred them to come uniformly dark, wine red in color, straight comb and white legged. In looks, these two lines of Sweaters show almost no resemblance. This is an example of how a family of fowl can be bred toward different standards by different breeders and in a few generations the two lines will be like two different breeds.
    Sonny Ware bred some Radio into the Sweaters making them pumpkin in color. Most people like this color better and breed to that end

  3. #3
    SkYLine
    Guest

    Re: History of Some Blood Lines

    Sweaters
    By: Bluff Creek
    From Harold Brown, Marvin Anderson


    Marvin Anderson was born 1878 and died in 1976.while serving in the army he became acquainted with Mr. Sanford hatch from New York. They both were cockers and became friends at this time. This was during ww1he fought birds in Alabama and Georgia. During these times people that fought birds traveled by wagon trains to southern towns where cockfighting was a week long event. They fought there fowl and mains was on there way out. Then decided to weigh at fight those in orders till one fought his birds out, almost like ten cock hack fights. They served food and stayed all week in the towns and always had some one stay with there birds. Mr. McGuiness had fowl as well, Harold Brown told me that he had a family of the left nose hatch, given to him by Mr. Mike Kearny, and he crossed them on 1/2 law grey,1/2 Madigan clarets, they was as good of fowl that he had. After meeting a young cocker from Alabama named Harold Brown they became acquainted he gave him some fowl none as his sweater left nose greys. Harold said in the early 40s and early 30s they were greys and bred back to the brother and sister mating they became red, being 1/2 hatch blood 1/4 claret blood and 1/4 grey the law birds was a dark legged grey blood to start with. I know fro a fact i seen some in the early 70s that threw a grey every now and then. Harold also said he gave some of this blood to Mr. Walter Kelso for the Orlando tournament and to meet some persons in a derby at the Augusta tournament. They where the sweaters blood. In turn they won both tournaments .Mr. Gilbert Coutua was the feeder from Louisiana, a friend of Harold’s and Marvin’s. Marvin was breeding the yeller legged birds from Sanford and Harold kept the ones that was crossed on the Kearny blood and where green legged he got from Theodore McLain, the green legged fowl was more plumage and that’s the ones Harold could sell. Marvin and Harold decided to keep the yeller legged fowl in Alabama, only letting them out to jus the locals -runt camp Scott house-barnetts.in the 60s Harold brown was beating a young cocker from Texas named Joe Goode and his brother .Then became acquainted with a young cocker named Johnny jumper, he was fascinated with the fowl. Harold talked to Walter and told him to let this young man have some of them birds because he knew he was pretty much a up and coming cocker and Harold and Curtis liked him. They beat him a lot but he had a good show of birds and always took care of the ones that were fought. Through the years breeding of this cross fowl they all became the color of red roosters light red in color with white in the tails, being a breeder and selecting fowl Harold sold some of these fowl, carol later obtained some of the yeller leg blood from buddy Barnett, Bruce’s older brother. Dink Fair got some from Johnny , and some from Carol MARVIN ANDERSON TOLD ME THE MAKE UP OF THOSE SWEATERS WERE AND I BELIEVE TILL THIS DAY ARE MOSTLY THE 1/2 YELLER not yellow LEGGED HATCH.1/4 MADIGAN CLARRETT 1/4 EW LAW DARK LEG GREY. BRED BACK TO THE YELLER SIDE WHICH WOULD BE DOMINENT LINE AND INBREEDEDING like all the old timers done to keep there birds. Most sweaters being a battle cross are a little mean unless handled at early stages of there life......
    just wanted to say in short the sabong is a flip web site and mostly the guys there are Filipino ,one thing I might add is doc Robertson was a builder and material supplier and he fought birds against Walter kelso, Walter also was a builder and most all were masons, true fact- when doc was fighting the pine Albanys he won a few fights and when he crossed them on kelsos they wasn’t even half good- doc got popular when he crossed the yellow legged hatch from ray Hoskins of Texas and the clearance Stuart green leg from Texas where he went 16 straight at sunset. I was there. That’s was his best birds doc had Walter bought cocks all over and any thing that could fight he would buy, especially winners in quick fights-and those guys you mentioned way behind on there facts-Walter kelso would love to have his blood make up the sweaters but in fact Walter only had 6 or 7 different breeds in his fowl sweater always had greys till he got whipped or shut out by mike Kearny /Sanford hatch birds from McLain, then Lun Gilmore was smoking Walters clarets from madigan -same birds McLain got- jus thought you might want to know bout docs fowl......... your friend

    Robert , I d like to say up front i am not any authority on chickens and don’t know every thing, I cant even spell properly and don’t use spell check. I love game fowl and been around them all my life. My older brothers had em, uncles, grandfather, his father and seen some of the worlds best i think personally fight birds. Being from Alabama and helping my grandfather with his birds i got to go to pit sat a young age, just like they do at the Cajun pits. I have letters and tape recordings from well know cockers from Alabama. I think you will love to hear there on voices telling of the great fights and the gentlemen that participated. I don’t like to sell chickens because most people think there gold. And most will fight you over there birds. I as well don’t look at lineage when selecting brood fowl, but I do like to know who and how they were bred. It was just a hobby at first talking to the old cockers and listening to there stories. In fact I had done a research and article in 1974 with Curtis black wells birds for school essay on the game cock. None of the kids in school even knew birds would fight till death and that there was history on breeding game fowl. Like I said was jus a hobby and one day i might have it all put together for my sons to know. I have given away more game fowl in my life than most people ever seen at one place. I believe that we all should one day get together and keep the truth and the old breeders time and there way of breeding to be open and honest. I will have game fowl as long as I live and I believe personally if a man spends his life breeding fowl, it should be respected and credit where it may fall. I know there great fowl out there today, and a lot of fowl carries different blood to due to different infusions, where I’m from I have 1/2 my blood and 1/2 Roberts blood- or 1/4 my blood 1/4 dales blood and 1/2 Richard blood -never using the term pure kelso or pure hatch if you breed it and make an infusion it becomes your breed and any flaw or quality becomes your own

  4. #4
    SkYLine
    Guest

    Re: History of Some Blood Lines

    ThE ALBANYS By: E.T.Piper (August 1965)


    Every time we read in a game journal or hear someone arguing about how a famous strain was bred, it used to make us smile. Now, after a lot of developing into the history of present day families of fowl, it makes us laugh right out loud. If any man ever hit the nail on the head, it was Henry Ford when he said, much to the disgust of our scholarly element, "History is the bunk!" Much of the history taught in our schools is just that, or at its best inaccurate reporting of past events, and all game fowl history is absolutely bunk. Ninety-five percent of us gamefowl breeders don't know how our own fowl are bred further than two or three generations back. A whole hell of a lot of us are not positive how last season's chicks were bred, and them right on our own yard at that. Sounds silly, but it's true. Let's take the Allen Roundheads as a well-known example. We know they were good. I can show you a man who claims to have letters from Allen in which he claims his strain was kept good by careful inbreeding. I can show you another who says he has letters to prove the best cocks Allen ever showed were crosses of Green's Japs; and still another who contends the best Allen ever fought, and this over a period of years, were not bred by Allen at all, but sent him each year by a New England saloon keeper. And, all three of these men claim to have positive proof of their contentions. What's the difference how they are or aren't bred, or who bred them? If they are good today, that's what you want and need. If they aren't good, a silly pedigree of long, pure breeding isn't going to improve them a particle. Recently, we talked to a well-known cocker and a competent man. We asked him about some fowl he had tried out for three years. He said, "I had to get rid of every drop of the blood. All the damned things would do is stand there like fence posts and take whatever the other cock handed them." Now, we happen to know a considerable amount of those fowl and their owner. He can write out the pedigree of any chicken on his yard and trace it right back to 1865 or '70; not another drop of outside blood in all those years. They are famous today among paper fighters. Yet, compared with today's best cocks, they are positively jokes. Keeping pedigrees of animals and birds was begun simply because it furnished (for future reference) a record in writing of how outstanding individuals were bred, who their fathers, mothers, grandfathers, grandmothers, and the proper place for their pedigrees is in the trash can. In two different issues of the Warrior some time last summer, we gave you the history of the Albany fowl; one of today's winning strains of fowl. We had been much interested in these fowl for the past 9 or 10 years, or longer, ever since we saw some of them back in 1930 or '31. Since then, at every opportunity, we have tried to get a line on how they were originated and bred, up to today. Finally, we thought we had it right and gave in to you. On a recent trip to Troy, we found out it was only approximately correct, so, here it is again. If you are tired of reading our stuff on these fowl, we don't' blame you a bit, and promise this is our last word on the Albanys. Back years ago or more, Mr. Hatch of Long Island, N.Y., fought a main in Eastern New York. When we arrived home, he found someone had stolen three cocks from his shipping coops, the ones he had taken along for the main. Two of them were yellow legged and one a green leg. While the men who have us our information said they would take their oaths they didn't know who stole these cocks, they did know who eventually got them. The two yellow legs were bred and produced nothing worthwhile. "Army" Fox of Utica, N.Y. got the green leg. He was a large, straight comb, broad backed, dark red, with green legs. Army later talked with Mr. Hatch about having the cock, and he told him what he was, that all of those families were straight combs, etc. Army said he would send and get him. His friend told him the cock had died, and that he wasn't his type of chicken anyway. However, he had raised two or three stags form him, and a hen that was in breeding, Pogmore Whitehackle and Henny, and offered to send Army one of the stags. When he arrived, he was a beautiful, long feathered, large stag, black and red in color. He was bred to the Slade Roundhead hens and a dozen or so stags were produced. About half of them looked like Hennies, and while game, better than the Hennies, and that's about all that could be said of them. About this time and for some years previous, Tom Foley of Troy, N.Y., had a strain of extras good ginger colored fowl, and Army Fox sent to him and asked for a good cock to breed. Just about this time, and Albany crowd one of his Gingers, a spangle (and the only one out of 50 or so to come that color), to fight in the main. He was a big cock and didn't fall in (but in a hack after the main won a very classy battle), and was sent on to Army Fox for a brood cock. Army bred him to the pullets, or perhaps hens by then, that were sisters to the Henny stags that were out of the Hatch Pogmore Henny cock and Slade hens. This mating, for some unknown reason, produced all very small fowl, 4.0, 4.04, 4.06, etc., too small for practical purposes although they were exceptional fighters and very game. Practically all of them were given away. Shortly after this, Army met a friend of his in Albany, whom we must refer to as Mr. X. He had always had gamefowl, but a few years before had gotten into politics. At that time, he gave up the fowl. Army suggested he get back in the game again, that new blood was needed among the big shots, and especially new blood with a bankroll. He laughed and said perhaps he would, but where would he get good fowl? To make a long story short, he took the pullets or hens Army had that were bred from the Foley Ginger cock and hens that were? Slade Roundhead, hatch-Pogmore Henny. He got, form the Hardy Bros. Of Niagara Falls, one of their Mahogany cocks known as "The Sneak" (due to a habit he had of ducking under his opponent) and bred them together. This mating produced what were known as the strait Albanys; very uniform, awfully game cocks, but not good enough to compete with the topnotchers. From here on, our previous writings on these fowl are correct. A Pine Spangle was bred tot he Albany hens and produced cocks that were invincible for five or six years. When he died, a Claret cock bred to the same hens and other Clarets down to Mr. X's "Caseys" of today were what he had. Offshoots of the family have proven awfully good. The Bradford fowl, Laws Clippers, Hard, Cox fowl, Keefer, and many more all contain the blood. In spite of the numerous and varied crosses that have been made, these fowl today are surprisingly uniform in looks and in action and winning qualities. We know of nothing better, not few as good

  5. #5
    SkYLine
    Guest

    Re: History of Some Blood Lines

    post naman kayo kung meron kayong nakalap na mga history ng mga linyada. para naman kung may magtanong, may makuha na silang sagot dito sa thread nato. more to come pa mga bros.

    skyline

  6. #6
    Member patacboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    http://eisburg-gf.webs.com/
    Posts
    347
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: History of Some Blood Lines

    I found this on the web:

    Morgan Whitehackle
    by: E.T. Piper

    { Fulldrop ]

    Col. William l Morgan of East Oragne,N.J., bred and perfected this strain of gamefowl. And it takes its name from him. As the Morgan fowl are practically pure Gilkerson North Brittons, it is necessary to go somewhat into the history of that strain. About 1858, George Gilkerson, an English farmer living in Cortland County, N. Y, imported some fowl from Cumberland, England. From a man named lawman a relative of Billy Lawman of New York State.

    In this country there where known as North Brittons and later known as Gilkerson Whitehackles. North Brittons contained Duckwingred, Brownred and Pyle. On and before his death Gilkerson`s death many of his fowl came to Col.Morgan. Among these fowl was a little imported Scottish hen. Which Gilkerson prized most highly. Col. Morgan bred this hen with the old Gilkerson fowl and her blood is in all his fowl. Morgan did not know the history of this hen but expressed the opinion that she was nothing more or less than a lawman hen. That had been bred across the boarder in Scotland.

    All her stags looked and acted just like the Gilkerson fowl. The Morgan Whitehackles became famous than the Gilkerson fowl had ever been. He whipped Kearney, the Eslins, Mahoney and many of a less note in many mains in the Pennsylvania coal mining district. No man has ever approached this record in short heels, and the backbone of all these mains was pure Morgan Whitehackles.
    Col. Morgan never made but two permanent outcrosses in the straight strain. Morgan got a Ginger hen from Perry Baldwin. And put her on the yard of Sonny Stone of Newark. He had stone bred her. Her granddaughters and great granddaughters under Morgan cocks. the resulting progeny had the bloody heel and fighting quality of the pure Morgan's and still retained some of the excessive courage of the ginger [ newbold fowl]. Morgan finally took a fifteen-sixteenth Morgan and a sixteenth {ginger] newbold hen from stone and bred her on his own yard.

    That is the blood in all Morgan fowl. About the beginning of the century John Hoy of Albany obtained possession of the fowl of Billy Lawman. Morgan and Hoy exchanged brood fowl freely an as the fowl were identical in general make-up and charactishtics. The offspring bred on as the pure strain. Morgan bred the Lawman cock when reduced to one quarter in his favorite pens. At the time of his death there was a small percentage of this blood in most of his fowl. In the early nineties Morgan have a small pen of his fowl to a Col. in Virginia. The Col. inbreed the fowl and on his death.

    They fell into the hands of a professor at Georgetown university. Who knew nothing about breeding or cock fighting. He kept the family pure breeding his favorite cock to the whole flock on hens. When he died the fowl were still inbred in N.J. Neither the family Morgan bred or the family that had been inbred had changed appearance or quality in twenty-five years. Although kept absolutely apart, bred together the young cannot be told from the parents on either side. Except that they are larger and stronger that the offshoot family.

  7. #7
    Member patacboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    http://eisburg-gf.webs.com/
    Posts
    347
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: History of Some Blood Lines

    Another one off the web:

    Claibornes (Toppies)
    Source: Johnson's History of Game Strains By; W.T. Johnson

    Let's set the stage a bit. Place: New Orleans, Louisiana

    Time frame: About 18 to 20 years, before the "War Between the States" or somewhere around 1838 or 1840.

    The main players:

    Jim Sanford - an ex- (bare knuckles) prizefighter. Who was on the run, from an eastern state, after an opponent died in the ring. He had been raised in the crescent city as a youth fresh from England. Now he was breeding and pitting cocks for Judge Claiborne.

    Judge Claiborne - It's unclear if the "Judge" was a court Judge or simply a justice of the peace. However what is recorded is that he was on of the greatest sportsmen of his time.

    John Stone - A dairy farmer from some where between Marblehead and Swampscott, Mass. He was also a sportsman and breeder of game fowl. It would do him an injustice to simply leave it at that. He may be responsible (if not directly certainly indirectly), for many if not most of the breeds of game fowl in the U.S. today. The list of the stains of fowl that contain at least some of the blood of his breeding would take more room than allowed in this one posting.

    The story:

    Jim Sanford was an Englishman and an ex-pugilist who left the East following a prize fight which resulted fatally to his opponent. He was brought up in New Orleans, bred and pitted cocks for a number of years for Judge Claiborne of that city. The judge was one of the greatest sportsmen of his time and in fighting a main in the Old Spanish pit, an English Earl of Derby lost by having a heel broken off in his back. Jim Sanford got the broken heel out and bred him to a Spanish hen, as Jim could see the good points in this cock. This cross proved to be the equal, if not the superior, to anything wearing feathers in the chicken line at the time.

    Here is a few simple words we have on the makeup of the smooth head Claibornes bred and originated by Jim Sanford and named in honor Judge Claiborne 18 or 20 years before the war between the North and the South.

    The smooth head Claiborne got into the hands of John Stone in this way Stone and Saunders made a main to be fought in Richmond, Va. Stone took his Irish Brown Reds there to condition them. About the same time Judge Claiborne happened to be in Baltimore and was the main advertised on the billboards of the city. So the judge went to Richmond to witness that main. He was introduced to Stone and Saunders and expressed a desire to see the Brown Reds. He looked the cocks over, examined them, and said they were as fine a lot of cocks as I have ever seen, but they are looking too beefy and I think that you will lose the main, which they did.

    Mr. Stone was living on a farm and the judge asked him if he would breed chickens for him. If we can agree said Stone. The agreement was that Stone was to kill all his pullets and ship all stags to Judge Claiborne in New Orleans, which he did till after the war broke out.

    After the was began Stone could not hear from Judge Claiborne and as he had taken on a bride who wished him to dispose of his games he then sold them to John Mahar, of Marblehead, Miss., the Jim Sanford Smoothhead Claibornes, stipulating that is Mahar ever heard from Judge Claiborne, that he, Mahar should ship stags to the Judge as he had done.
    Mr. Stone also let John Daniels have a trio and Tom Heathwood a pair. Mr. Mahar, being a cocker, they made a name and fame that will ive for generations to come, all through the United States. Mr. Mahar had good success raising stags the first year and the next winter took a main of ten stags to Boston and won every fight and fought four of them the second battle and won. The Boston cockers were amazed at their success so made another main with Mahar, to show 13 stags, nine pair fell in. Boston had forty of the best to be found to pick from.

    Mahar won seven straight battles. The other two were not fought as Boston had enough. Boston then challenged Mahar to fight seven cocks, they were winners, but the great Claibornes were again victorious and won six out of the seven battles. This established their well-earned reputation.

    Jim Sanford was also an admirer of the Baltimore Topknots, a fame and winning strain of Bright Reds, which were originated in Maryland and were almost invincible in long heels. Jim procured six full sisters of the Baltimore Topknots and bred them to the same Earl Derby cock he used on the Spanish hen. Jim bred both strains as long as he lived, the Topknot cross proving to be as good as the smoothheads and a little larger.

    A few years later Lewis Everett, of Benton, Ala., went to New Orleans and brought a stag and three pullets of the plain heads, but the Topknots Everett carried to Ben Grisset's, Camden, Ala., did not pan out satisfactorily, so he sold them to Major Felix Tait, of Rock West, Ala., and Tait with his brother bred them as long as he lived, the remnant going to his daughter, Mrs. Sally Tait Bragg, of Camden Ala. We also made note that Grissett, Everett and Tait crossed the plain or smooth heads on the Topknots.

    Sanford and Everett bred together later at Mobile, Ala. In Everett's last years we find him at Joe Pickins, Sulphur Springs, Texas with his smoothheads where they were bred pure by Mr. Pickins. Major Tait said he got out first from Sanford, then from Everett who sent smooth heads and Topknots and we have bred them together always.

    Both strains are a beautiful fowl and both show white in wing and tail, both strains showing some spangle, some having a red breast and some black, yellow and white legs and beaks, red and daw eyes, ranging from low set to medium. The Spanish showed some dark legs, as one may crop out. Everett called the "nigger foot".

    This history comes from many friends who were personally aquatinted with Jim Sanford, Judge Claiborne, Everett, Trait, John Stone and John Mahar and is as old as true as the strain itself.

    When I was a very small boy about 45 years ago, I could visit an estate where the Earl Derbys were bred. Some were black red, some brown red and some light red, the light reds having a shorter head than the black reds and color eyes and bill as mentions above.

  8. #8
    Member patacboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    http://eisburg-gf.webs.com/
    Posts
    347
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: History of Some Blood Lines

    Everything i have posted, is on the web. This one for Lemon 84 Fans.

    The Legend Of The LEMON 84
    by Paeng Araneta

    Perhaps, no other gamecock in Philippine cockfighting history has been surrounded by so much mystique as the lemon 84.

    There's the story that the 84 in its name comes from the fact that it has won 84 times! Then there's another that says its owner, Paeng Araneta, simply borrowed it from unknown breeder and claimed it as his own. And then another that Paeng Araneta stayed with American breeder Duke Hulsey in the States for an entire six months in order to acquire all the Duke's secrets in breeding Lemons and to cajole him into giving up th Lemon 84.
    Amusing. Amazing. But the nothing can be farther from the truth. I should know, I am Paeng Araneta. But first, let me state the reason why all the attention on the Lemon 84. Well, for one simple reason. This fantastic bird sired the first locally bred cocks that beat their imported opponents. The Lemon 84 line's impressive record started in the early seventies.
    In 1970, at the International Derby (at that time, only one was held each year) in Araneta Coliseum, a team of early offsprings of Lemon 84 won second place. It would have been just an ordinary derby victory except for the fact that the locally bred cocks fought and won against all imported cocks. It must be recalled that during those years, only imported cocks were being fought in International Derbies. No Filipino coker, as yet, has dared enter cocks of local breeding.
    The next year, other Lemon 84 offspring won second again in the International - and again, beating the importeds. But in 1972, a magnificent team of offspring of Lemon 84 won the championship of the derby, the first time a team of all Philippine-bred cocks was able to do so. And though it shared the top berth with two other champion cocks as it was a three-comered victory, the feat was nonetheless staggering it marked the first time that locally bred gamecocks bested the field of importeds.

    Thus the mad rush of almost all breeders and cockers to acquire the Lemon 84 line. Now, let me take you to the beginning of the legend.

    THE LINEAGE OF LEMON 84
    From 1963 to 1967, the major competitions in Manila's cockpits were dominated, more or less, by the "Thunderbirds" of Jorge Araneta. The "Thunderbirds" were imports from Duke Hulsey of Louisiana. Specifically, they were what Duke called his Lemon Hackles or, as they eventually became better known: The Lemons.
    The Duke Hulsey Lemons were straight-comb, yellow-legged reds, with the distinquishing Lemon hackles. Occasionally, some birds would come out dark red with a narrow lemon ring around the hackles. (These, in my opinion, were the better ones.)
    No matter which, the Lemons were all tough, averaging about seventy percent to eighty percent wins. This was, impressively, a formidable statistic at the time, considering that these locally bred birds were fighting all improted chickens from the United States. As I have earlier mentioned, it was the custom then of Filipino cockers to fight only imported chickens in the big league fights.
    Several mains were held annually from 1963 to 1967. They were billed as "U.S. versus Philippines". The "U.S.", of course, was Duke Hulsey in partnership with Mr. J. Armado Araneta and his son Jorge. And "Philippines" referred to the field composed of the United Cockers Club of Messrs. Peping Cojuangco, Esting Teopaco, Mayo Lacson, Johnny Velos, Eddie Araneta, and others who were all the cream of Philippine cockfighting.
    The philippine "team" was just as tough. They used the very best of th eAmerican cocks from such breeders as Billy Ruble, Spec McLaughlin, Grady Hamilton, L.L. Love, Ray Hoskins, and others who were not any less formidable.
    These mains, which preceded the derbies as we have now, were all held at the Araneta Coliseum of J. Armado Araneta. For the most part, the Lemons prevailed. And if my memory serves me right, they were all won by the U.S. team.

    ENCOUNTERING THE DUKE
    I had already met Duke Hulsey through Jorge Araneta in 1964 when he first came to Manila to fight in the International.
    In 1967, however, I made my first visit to the Amicizia Farm of Duke in Tangipahoa, Louisiana. Duke, by the way, is an honorary title that southerners dubbed this respected breeder. His real name is James Henry Hulsey.
    In my first visit, I stayed with Duke for four to five days. Then in 1969, I made my second visit, staying shorter this time for about two days.
    But such encounters have already convinced me about the formidability of the Lemons of Duke Hulsey. According to him, the breeding of the Lemons consisted of Mixture of Hatch - Claret - Butcher i proportions he had set for himself and which he had established as a family.
    And he was right. The Lemons indeed acted as such, fighting uniformly through the years. They were high-headed, smart, and possessed great cutting ability. On top of all these, they were also very pretty.

    THE BIRTH OF THE LEMON 84
    During my first visit to Amicizia Farm, I came upon an unusual Lemon. He was pea-combed. Duke shipped it to me in Manila.
    People kept asking me its name but I didn't have any. But once, when somebody again asked, I simply looked at its leg band and read: Lemon84. I guess, it sounded romantic. Whatever, it was that Lemon with the leg band 84 that started the winning line.
    I bred Lemon 84 to two Lemon hens which I had also bred from a battle-scarred winner acquired earlier. I got some pullets.
    I bred back the pullets to Lemon 84, their daddy, and from the clutch, picked two outstanding individuals. These two I bred back to each other, brother to sister.
    Again, from what came out of the brother - sister breeding, I chose two of the most vigorous pullets and bred them back to the great grand daddy, Lemon 84. This time, a pair of the pullets showed up with green legs.
    I bred this green-legged pair and came up with what I thought was the best of them all. Meanwhile, I kept on breeding the ones that looked like Lemon 84.
    From all the breeding, I was able to produce two familes: one typically Lemon with yellow legs; another, dark and looking like pea-combed Hatches.
    These two familes were continuously bred on - some by me, the other by some friends to whom I had given them. Two good friends, however, to whom I had lent Lemon 84 himself in 1968 for a good half season were Nonoy Jalandoni and Tony Trebol.
    But the breeding of these two familes of Lemon 84 resulted in a good average for everybody and would win either bred straight or crossed on other starins.
    Unfortunately, as with all inbred familes that had been bred indiscriminately, some later Lemons began to act-up and quit in the fights. I anticipated this. But I knew, and still do until today, where the good ones were and these were th eonly ones that I made sure I bred on.

    THE LEGEND LIVES ON
    Today, the mystic surrounding the Lemon 84 persists. It cannot be helped, it is an excellent strain.
    Articles have been written about it; some breeders have been coming up to tell me their stories. One of them said he was able to build a house from the winnings he got out of a Lemon 84. Another said his Lemon 84 was able to feed his family and tide them over some very rough times.
    In Bacolod, during the dark years when the sugar price went down, affecting the sugar-dependent region, cockfighting became a major source of revenue. And most of the winning cocks for the Bacolod breeders was the Lemon 84 line.
    Even today's champions, like the outstanding "Millionaire Cock" of Cito Alberto, comes from the Lemon 84 line. Cito Alberto said so himself, that his winning cock is a grandson of a Lemon he got from me.
    Cockfighting has not seen the last of the Lemon 84. The good ones are still around. And with correct breeding, I believe, one perfect cock will be born to once again carry on the legend of the Lemon 84.

    Reprinted from "TAHOR" pp 23-27)

  9. #9
    Member patacboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    http://eisburg-gf.webs.com/
    Posts
    347
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: History of Some Blood Lines

    I'll post more later. Kayod time!

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    EARTH
    Posts
    60
    Post Thanks / Like

    Thumbs up Re: History of Some Blood Lines

    Good To Know About The History Of These Fine Birds.keep It Coming!

  11. #11
    SkYLine
    Guest

    Re: History of Some Blood Lines

    HATCH FOWL
    by W.T. Johnson

    Some say that the original E.S. Hatch blood was bred by Hatch's friend Judge Leiper who got them originally from a man in Huntington, Long Island. They were supposed to be a Kearney Whitehackle, Kearney Brown Red cross. Leiper also bred a 4.12 ginger colored cock from Duryea for several years. Hatch told Ed Piper that around 1900 he got some dark red, green legged fowl from a Mr. Cassidy (or Lynch) of Huntington, Long Island, NY, and later several times through the years got more of that blood. They were dead game, hard hitting and tough.

    He bred a black red cock from Harry Genet of NY, breeder of the Genet Pyles over the Cassidy (some say Lynch) hens. This was the foundation blood and Hatch made many crosses and it is said that at the time he gave them to Mathesius none of the pure original stock was left. Hatch was well acquainted with Mike and Harry Kearney, Jim Thompson, Joe Crossin, J.W. E. Clark and Simon Flaherty. It is said they often loaned each other brood fowl.

    When Jim Thompson died, Hatch got the choicest of his Mahoganies. When Mr. Clark died, Hatch got the best of what he had left. These came mostly Roundhead and were probably part Duryea which contained Boston Roundhead blood. Hatch and T.W. Murphy were close friends and he had some of the Murphy blood. He crosses Foley's Gingers (that Murphy gave him after buying all Foley supposedly had). They quit and discarded them. He bred a Stegmore cock from Bradford, and then discarded those. Clarets and others from Dave Ward were bred. Blood from Morris O'Connell was added as well as good Morgan blood from Billy Clarkin. He bred fowl from Simon Flaherty.

    Most of his cocks were yellow legged and dark reds. However, some came green legged and came all shades of red, some a dark red, some a rustly red, some a brownish red and others a sort of maroon color. They were strong, hard hitting cocks, not only dead game, but tough and could take a lot more than they could dish out as many of them were low headed, dumb and poor cutters.

    In 1931, Hennie Mathesius went ot work for Hatch and carried his fowl with him, which were Morgan Whitehackles, from Hill, of New Jersey, some Lowman blood and some Gull/Morgan crosses. Some of these were crossed on the Hatch fowl and though their progeny looked about the same, they fought better. They lost a little of their power, but became higher headed, better cutters and won a larger percent of fights. Some think they lost their extreme gameness, but I think this was the case only in some yards. Hatch gave all his fowl to Mathesius, who sold them to C.C. Cooke, of Oklahoma, who soon became partner of E.W. Law

  12. #12
    SkYLine
    Guest

    Re: History of Some Blood Lines

    THE BLUEFACE HATCH
    by Harry Parr (1977)

    In the spring of 1949, Ted McLean had two beautifully bred "straight" stags, one of which he wanted to breed. They were full brothers, well made, green legged, weighed about four ten, and you really could not have told them apart except one was a roundhead. His wing clip was 48-90; the square comb, 48-96. Ted decided to heel them up and fight them which we did in his pit in the barn. The square comb proved to be the better fighter, cutter, and when he blinded the roundhead, Ted said he had seen enough and to cut the head off the roundhead. Well, I had handled the roundhead and when he was in my hands you could tell all he wanted to do was get at the other stag. After being pitted, he would search and soon as contact was made, explode. So, I said I would take him home and see what I could do. After a couple of weeks he regained the sight of one eye and was soon back in good health.

    I bred this stag two years and one day Ted asked me if I would mind sending him to Lun Gilmore. Lun wanted a cock and at that time Ted Dod not have a really good one to spare. I shipped the cock and later learned that Lun and Pete Frost bred him to a hen that Ted had previously given to Pete. This hen was 47-65, by Green Leg Cock no. 2, the "straight stuff" out of hen no. 81 which was a Morgan Whitehackle from Heinie Mathesius. (You see none of the "straight stuff" on the hen side ever got out.)

    Prior to this Ted had given Pete Frost Green Leg Cock no. 53 which became the sire of the Frost "Cherries". They had also bred this cock to hen 47-65 and sent us a stag from that mating which we called, after Lun, the "Alligator Cock". Sweater McGinnis was involved in their fighting activities at this time, and it was from these three birds that the Blue Face emerged, i.e. Hen 47-65, Cock 53, Cock 48-90.

    The next time I saw Sweater was January 1958 in Orlando. He told me these "Blue Face" were the gamest chickens he had ever seen and that he kept the seed stock pure just to make battle crosses. He asked me if I would let him have another cock and I sent him Cock 57-340. (I was fortunate to get this cock back after Sweater death thanks to Willis Holding.) He also told me not to worry, that he didn't let the "straight" ones go but that they all fought under the name of "Blue Face". At one time, his favorites were one quarter Blue Face, one quarter Regular Grey and one half Leiper, bred in various combinations. Like all of us, he experimented with many crosses and blends in an effort to produce superior battle cocks, but recognized the value of keeping the seed stock pure.

    The McLean Hatch come both green legged and yellow legged, single comb and pea-comb. The hens are whereon or "dirty" partridge, and the cocks red. They vary in shades from dark mahogany to light reds with white under hackles and white in wings and tail. The latter are usually single comb yellow legged, reverting back to the Kearny Whitehackles. Most of the cocks' breasts are flecked with brown and quite a few come with lemon hackles at the shoulders.

    The Blueface are all green legged with single or pea-combs. Hens are dark wheaton or partridge and cocks run more to the mahogany red. Most have brown feathers in the breast but few come lemon hackled. There are no exceptions to the above.

    In summation, I would like to say I have tried to adhere strictly to the purpose of this paper being the orgin and make-up of these two strains. I have intentionally omitted all extraneous information, details of breeding, fighting and the like, the inclusion of which would fill a book

    Blueface Hatch By: J.D Perry

    Lum Gilmore got a cock from Ted McLean it was a small stationed cock ran around Gilmore place for some time and there where no hens with him. He was said to be a hard hitter, and when cockers stooped by they sparred him to show how hard he could hit. When sparred or exerted in any way he turned blue in the face, hence the name blue face. Sweater McGinnis was around Gilmore`s place at Bay City, TX at the time, he finally brought over one of his Madigin regular grey hens as company for the cock. Some stags and pullets were raised from that mating. Sometime before that two hens where stolen from Hatch on Long Island and given to Sweater. And not long after that Sweater was inducted into the service. He put the two hatch hens with E.W. Law to keep for him until he returned, when he got out, he immediately got in touch with Law to get the hens. Law told him one had died ,but he sent Sweater the other one. One of the 1/2 grey 1/2 blue face cock was bread to the stolen Hatch hen and the progeny of that mating where known as the blue face fowl

  13. #13
    SkYLine
    Guest

    Re: History of Some Blood Lines

    THE MC LEAN HATCH
    by Harry Parr (1977)


    Interest in the breeding of game fowl strains has always run high even though the knowledge there-of seldom has any practical application. I have been asked many times to set forth the breeding of the McLean Hatch and their offshoot, the Blue Face family. This I have done briefly in letters and countless times orally. It is amazing how twisted these accounts become. So, since this subject appears still to hold the interest of many, I have decided to write down the facts for one and all. Although Ted McLean has been out of the "chicken business" since December of 1954 at which time he gave me all of his fowl, he is still very much with us. I mention this only because I have seen too many "histories" come out when it is too late for the facts to be verified by the principals involved. Further, the following is being written with my notes and breeding records before me and this paper will be limited to first hand information. Finally, lest anyone think there is an ulterior motive involved, my chickens are my hobby. I keep only enough for my purposes and have never, nor do I ever contemplate selling them.

    In the early thirties, Mr. E.S. Hatch and Mr. E.T. McLean were on the floor of the stock exchange. That Mr. Hatch gave Ted McLean fowl is testimony enough of their friendship, as it is well known Mr. Hatch did not let many go. At the time, Mr. Hatches' fowl consisted of four basic bloodlines. These were the Kearney make up of the two strains Mike Kearney brought from Ireland, namely (1) the "beasy" Breasted Light Reds (Whitehackles) and (2) the Brown Breasted Reds, plus (3) the Herman Duryea fowl (commonly called Boston Roundheads) which he added when he worked for Mr. Duryea. With these bloodlines Mr. Hatch incorporated (4) the green leg Thompson (Jim Thompson) fowl. I might say here that from then 'til now, the strains made up of these four bloodlines are what Ted and I call the "straight stuff."

    In those days virtually all the fighting in North East was done in inch and a quarter, heavy, slow heels, which is not spurring considering the cockers prime requisite was gameness. It followed that toughness and power were high priorities and the Hatch Fowl had all these in abundance. While they surely did not compile a great winning record, they were admired by many for these attributes. Fortunately, Ted McLean kept this set of priorities or the "straight stuff" would have long since gone by the boards. For in addition to these attributes, the McLean Hatch are poor cutters, low-headed dumb fighters, that usually take two or three shots before unleashing one of their patented haymakers. Obviously as the heels got faster their ability to win lessened, so they are now useless if fought pure. Their value then, is only as an ingredient to produce battle cocks.

    Ted McLean bought "Gamecock Farm" in Maryland and built one of the best all around chicken plants I have ever seen. He gave me a trio of his Hatch fowl in 1948 and shortly thereafter I bought a farm within a short distance of his. I suppose I was at Gamecock Farm a couple of times a week and everyday during the fighting season, because we fought we fought a heavy schedule and chickens were almost always in the cock house for conditioning. At least one experimental cross was tried each year and many produced superior battle cocks, but as soon as one quit, al chickens containing that blood, came under the axe. I saw an awful lot of chickens killed and when he retired from the game in 1954 only the "straight stuff" remained. All of these fowl were given to me.[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT]

  14. #14
    SkYLine
    Guest

    Re: History of Some Blood Lines

    Lacy Roundheads By: George Wood 1942
    Contributed by: Ray Boles


    Judge Ernest Lacy of Jasper, Alabama, who was my mother's brother, originated the strain of roundheads which bears his name in 1916. They were basically of Allen and Shelton bloodlines. Through the years Uncle Ernest, as I called him, wrote several times outlining how the Lacy Roundhead strain was established. I have copies of several of his letters giving their history, and this information has been published in the gamefowl journals and shared with friends who are interested in the Lacy Roundhead family. Uncle Ernest died in November 1942. That is now almost 50 years ago. Cockers who carry on the Lacys have asked me to write an account of how the family of Lacys which friends and I have carried on has been bred during those 50 years. The following is an account of our breeding of this line Lacys during those years.

    (Author's Note: This account is not for publication in any journals or otherwise during my lifetime. I do not approve of cockers promoting their fowl through writing about them in the gamefowl journals, and I do not want to be guilty of that practice. Also, it is my observation that writing about a family of fowl in the journals generally promotes inquiries about it by chicken raisers of every type and every degree of knowledge and dependability. I do not sell fowl and would not want to receive such inquiries. G.W.) (Editor's Note: Our appreciation to the author for allowing us to produce his work on this site. His requests are noted in hope that the general public abides by them.)

    Background Information. Uncle Ernest and I were the only members of our family who cared for game chickens. In fact, an aunt (Uncle Ernest's sister) who did not approve of cockfighting said when her only grandchild was born, Oh, I hope he won't like game chickens. Clearly, she considered a liking of gamefowl to be a family weakness. From the time I was a very small boy I always had bantams, in spite of living in Birmingham, making numerous moves and other obstacles. I was completely fascinated by them and absorbed in raising them. Not until I was in high school did I learn that Uncle Ernest had game chickens and a strain of his own which was known and respected throughout the country. During my high school years, when I visited in Jasper, Uncle Ernest would take me with him to visit the walks where his chickens were raised. He lived in town and did not keep fowl himself, but had excellent walks where people kept them for him. It was a sight to see those beautiful Lacy cocks as they would come up on these walks' faces red, feathers shining, bursting with vitality, bright eyes seeing everything that moved. They made a lasting impression on me. I've loved a good roundhead cock since those days. Uncle Ernest died unexpectedly of a heart attack in November 1942, while visiting a yard of his chickens with his close friend and cocking partner, Manley Daniel. At that time, I had been drafted into the army and was about to be sent overseas. A few months later I was sent overseas and spent the next 27 months in a 4.2 chemical mortar - battalion fighting in the European Theatre of Operations. Before leaving for overseas, I got a week-end pass and made arrangements for a fine old man who kept chickens for my uncle to keep two or three selected trios of broodfowl for me and to maintain another yard on a walk nearby where some of Uncle Ernest's best fowl were kept. When I returned from World War II, I found a tale of woe with my chickens. The old friend who was to care for them had taken a war job in another city and had not raised any young from the brood fowl I'd left with him. One old brood cock had died and another was sterile. He had brought chickens from other of Uncle Ernest's walks, many of them being crossed with other breeds and put them on the yard where my pure Lacys were to have been kept and bred. The result was that I had only a few old Lacy hens from my uncle's yard to carry on with.

    My First Years of Breeding (1945-1952). After World War II, I went to Auburn University to study forestry. I found a family in the "colored" quarters of town who agreed to keep a pen of chickens for me. I built a pen in their back yard and brought three old Lacy hens from Uncle Ernest's yard to Auburn. Having no brood cock left from my uncle's yard, I wrote Mr. J. T. Shepler of Uniontown, Pennsylvania, and asked if he would sell me a cock to breed to these hens. Uncle Ernest and Mr. Shepler had been exchanging fowl for several years and Uncle Ernest considered him an excellent breeder and a "stickler" for deep gameness. Today, if I were in the position I was in at that time, I would seek out the very finest Lacy cock that I could find anywhere to breed to these old Lacy hens. Uncle Ernest had many friends who, I know now, would have been glad to let me have anything they owned. In those days, however, I was shy and afraid of imposing on anyone. So, I wrote and asked Mr. Shepler if he would sell me a cock. Mr. Shepler wrote that he was sending me as a gift as fine a cock as he ever sent my uncle. He said the cock was an "Albany-Claret" and that his father was one of the greatest cocks he had ever seen fight. The Albany-Claret cock Mr. Shepler sent me was not al all impressive in looks. He was a medium red in color, straight comb, yellow legs, rather small. He had one unusual characteristic; he walked with his legs bent, never straightening them out but always having a bend at the knees. I bred this Shepler Albany-Claret cock to the three old Lacy hens and raised several stags and pullets. However, I went to Duke University to get an advance degree in forestry and did not get any of the stags fought. I put the pullets on a yard where Mr. Clyde Clayton of Boldo (near Jasper) was keeping chickens for me. The stags raised from these pullets on Mr. Clayton's yard killed themselves except for one baby stag before I got home from Duke. It is an indication of the gameness of these stags that except for the baby one, not one beat-up, one-eyed stag remained; they all had killed themselves. I had seen similar indication of very deep gameness in the half Lacy-half Albany-Claret stags that I'd raised the year before at Auburn. The baby stag which survived on this yard was of a different mating. I had taken a small, marked hen from Uncle Ernest's yard where I left chickens during the war. To her I bred a beautiful Lacy cock belonging to Manley Daniel. Manley had been Uncle Ernest's close friend and cocking partner for many years. He knew the Lacys intimately, having been closely involved in the breeding, walking and fighting of them almost from the time they were originated. The baby stag left on Clyde Clayton's yard was from the hen from Uncle Ernest's yard and Manley's Lacy cock. The next year, in the late summer, my favorite of the ? Lacy-? Albany-Claret hens running under the above stag (from the Lacy hen from Uncle Ernest's yard and Manley's cock) stole her nest off in the garden and set. I examined the eggs while she was setting and they were all uniform and appeared to be from one hen. That plus the fact that the nest was out in the weeds and it was the time of year when hens were raising chicks of varying ages and stealing their nests rather than laying together, led me to assume that the eggs were all from this. From this setting of eggs, one stag was raised. He was typical Lacy and did not show the Albany-Claret in his lineage. I showed him to Manley and I'll always remember his saying, "George, we have winned with many a one that looked just like that." When I fought this cock as a two-year old, he won a sensational one-pitting fight that brought a roar from the spectators. At pitside I gave this cock to Russell Sutherland and Carl Davis. This cock bred to Russell and Carl's Lacy hens produced the best Lacy Roundheads any of us have seen since Uncle Ernest had them at their best. Not only were they outstanding battle fowl, but with everything they were bred to, first class fowl were produced. Carl and Russell and I bred primarily to this cross of the cock I gave them and their hens as our main line of Lacys from that time on. We exchanged brood fowl so frequently that our Lacys have been essentially the same bloodlines since the mid-1950. My introduction of the Shepler Albany-Claret into our Lacys, which as said above I would not do today, proved to be a fortunate introduction of new blood which "nicked" with and freshened our Lacy family. I was very lucky.

    As mentioned, the Lacy? Albany-Claret cock which I gave to Russell Sutherland and Carl Davis in 1954 bred to their Lacy hens produced such outstanding offspring that we all have bred primarily to this line from that time on. As to the breeding of Carl and Russell's Lacys: Carl's father, George Davis of Jasper, and Uncle Ernest were good friends. They fought together, Uncle Ernest furnished Mr. Davis Lacys regularly through the years and he bred one of Mr. Davis' roundheads into his Lacys. Carl was a young man in his early twenties in those days, and he fed for both his father and Uncle Ernest, helped him with his walks, etc. Uncle Ernest thought the world of Carl. He told me that Carl was as fine a young man as you would find anywhere and that you could believe implicitly anything that he told you. Carl and I later became very close friends and I held him in the same esteem and affection that my uncle did. Russell Sutherland was a young man in Haleyville who loved gamefowl and helped Uncle Ernest walk cocks in Winston County. He especially loved Lacys and Henry Worthan Hulseys. Carl moved to Haleyville in the late 1930's and he and Russell became cocking partners. At the time of Uncle Ernest's death, they were out of Lacy blood. They went to Manley Daniel, who as mentioned was Uncle Ernest's friend and cocking partner and had had the best of the Lacys, and from Manley they got a trio of Lacys. They were very successful with the offspring from this trio, both when fought pure and when crossed. As a matter of breeding interest, it should be pointed out that the lacy hens they bred to the cock I gave them carried 1/8 Newell Roundhead which came from Mr. Ned Toulmin of Toulminville, Alabama. In 1955, Russell Sutherland told me to come up to Haleyville that he wanted to give me a trio of their Lacys. When we went to the yard, I saw the most beautiful Lacy hen grazing in the weeds that I have ever seen. Evidently, she caught Russell's eye too, for he "walked" her down and gave her to me. She became a major cornerstone of my breeding. I have never seen before or since a cock or hen which to me was as beautiful as this hen. Her beauty did not lie in long feathers. She was a neat, round bodied, buff colored hen with somewhat short but smooth feathering. Her beauty lay in her proportions and above all in her movements. She was like a ballerina, a symphony in motion, always in perfect balance. I used to watch her with pleasure and with wonder.

    When picking seeds in the grass, her stride was wide, smooth and swinging, but when she was in a hurry, her steps were short and very quick, always smooth, her body in perfect balance. When she fought, she was like lightning, crossing her opponents and hitting multiple blows on their backs with amazing speed. As said above, this hen, which I call the Russell hen, was the cornerstone of my breeding. I bred her to a number of different cocks and used the offspring as my main broodfowl. Since her offspring by these cocks comprise much of the foundation of my Lacy family, I will describe the most important cocks she was bred to. As stated previously, most of them were from the cross of the cock I gave Carl and Russell and their Lacy hens. I bred the Russell hen to a son of the Lacy-? Albany-Claret hen which was the mother to the cock I gave Russell and Carl. From this mating I got the best battle cocks I've ever owned and some of the best I've ever seen fought.

    I bred the Russell hen to a stag Carl gave that was from a son of the cock I gave him bred back to his aunts. The daughters from this mating were some of the best brood hens I’ve ever owned. I bred the Russell hen to a stag Russell gave me that was out of daughters of the cock I gave him and Carl bred to a brother to the Russell hen. From this mating I got a son that was one of my most used brood cocks. This cock was rather light bodied for a Lacy and limber muscled, but well muscled. He had unusually smooth, coordinated movement. He was exceptionally active and energetic, always on the move, but not nervous in disposition. He would look you square in the eye, not mean and wanting to fight you, but not afraid. I liked him very much for this disposition. Most of the Lacys I have had and have let friends have for many years carried his blood. My closest bred fowl were from this cock bred to his sisters, daughters and other relatives. I also bred him to the last of the old hens from the mating of the cock I gave Carl and Russell and their hens. (Russell and Carl called these the "George Wood" hens and I'll refer to them this way hereafter in this report). Many of the best Lacys fought in Alabama in the last 25 years have been descended from this mating. I also bred the Russell hen to what was known as the white-tail cock. Friends kept telling me of a little white-tailed roundhead cock which was being fought almost every week in brush fights around Haleyville, always winning. Finally, I learned that when Russell Sutherland picked up the stags on the yard where the George Wood hens were bred to the brother of the Russell hen, he picked up the cock early and when he got the stags there was a baby stag left which was thought to be from the hens and their bull stag sons. Russell gave the baby stag to the owner of the yard where he was bred and the owner sold him for $1.00. This baby stag grew into the white-tailed cock that was winning so many fights. I bought this cock for $25.00, the only time I have ever purchased a cock. Interestingly, this cock turned solid white the year after I bought him and remained white for two or three years. He was turning back red when he got out of his pen and was killed. This cock was a very fine specimen, firm but limber in muscle, well-proportioned and well feathered and with a steady, friendly disposition. His offspring are being carried on today in my lines and those of friends, as will be seen later in this account. I bred the Russell hen to a cock from Carl that had a little Bingham Red in him and got a fine son which made a foundation brood cock for my friend, Noonan Gortney. In those years I made one infusion of other Lacy blood which is carried in small amounts in many of my Lacys today. In the 1960's I exchanged a pair of Lacys with Hugh Norman. I got first-class roundheads from this cross, very game and capable fighters. Today many of my Lacys carry from one sixteenth to less than one-hundredth of this Hugh Norman Lacy blood.The matting described above were the heart of my breeding during the 1950?s and 1960?s. I was breeding half brother and sister, half uncle to niece, etc. Everything traced back within a few generations to just a few individuals, those individuals being the ones described above. I was breeding very closely. During these years, I fought my generally closely inbred cocks in small derbies with mediocre success. I won an occasional derby but was never a dangerous contender. The cocks were kept is small round stationary pens, never moved from the time they were put in them as stags, then put through a two week keep, usually by an only average feeder or they were scratched in a fly pen by me and fought out of it. Although they did not have an impressive winning record, these small, inbred Lacys showed qualities which were generally admired. They were sought after by those with Lacy blood and by others who wanted to use them for crossing. I will list some of the cockers who have acquired and carried on with these Lacys later in this account. During these same years, Carl Davis was fighting our line of Lacys crossed with power blood with considerable success. (Russell had quit fighting by then.) Carl's best cocks were Lacy-? Hatch or other power blood. They were some of the best cocks to be found in Alabama, winning consistently in all of the major Alabama pits. If they went to the drag pit with a power cock on equal terms, they would win four times out of five on cutting ability and gameness. It was Carl's success with his Lacy crosses more than anything else which made cockers in Alabama begin wanting roundheads again. Until then, almost the only thing wanted was pure power blood. Carl's success showed cockers that a cross of Southern fowl and power blood could produce first class battle fowl. (Hugh Norman knew this. Although he advertised only power breeds at the time, Hugh told me in the early 1960's that his best cocks were his Lacy-Hatch crosses and that when someone paid him top prices for his battle cocks, the Hatch-Lacy crosses were what he sent them.)[/font][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/font]
    Last edited by SkYLine; February 23rd, 2008 at 04:25 PM.

  15. #15
    SkYLine
    Guest

    Re: History of Some Blood Lines

    HENNIE GAME FOWL
    by Paul Dawson (1976)

    I have been asked many times how the Hennies were made up - what crosses were used. A Hennie is one of the very few Strains of pure Game Fowls. They were first seen in India and they must have come out of the Jungles as did the Bankiva, and when you cross them they are no longer a Hennie. I believe they are just as the Maker made them. Their traits, their fighting style, their speed and cutting make them as different from their long feathered cousins as daylight and dark.

    I have bred, fought and sold them for sixty five years so I feel I am qualified to write their history.

    They came into England in the early fifteenth century and the good British breeders bred them to perfection and at one time they challenged all of England with their Hennies. From the Sports and Mutations they bred them in many different colors, including the beautiful Grouse bred by John Harris. They soon found their way into Spain where the Spanish bred them over their Brown and Grey Spanish. My good friend, the late John Thrasher, bred the Spanish just as they came from Spain and many of them came he-feathered.

    The first Hennies were brought inot this country by a party named Story and they proved to be great fighters in short heels as used along the East Coast. Mr. Chester A. Lamb imported the Black Thorne, also the brown Hennies in the early eighties. He bred them for fifty years and sold most all of the old time breeders, Hennie brood cocks. Mr. Lamb also imported the Kikilia from Ceylon. These he gave to me about a year after he imported them. My first Black Hennies came from Mr. Lamb and I also imported some great fighting Brown Hennies from England.

    I never aspired to be a big shot, I bred my Hennies because I love them. I fought a few each year but never enough to make a nuisance out of it. They won for me and for my customers all over the world and after 65 years my Hennies are just as fast, just as rugged as in years gone by and they are bred and fought all over this country. Not in large numbers but by men like me who like them and they win for them.

    A good Texas cocker has a Black Hennie cock that has won seven derby fights. Another Texas cocker who went to Copper State last season saw one of my Black Hennies win his tenth fight in one short pitting.

    In the early 30's I helped W.R. Hudlow run a pit south of Chickasha, Oklahoma. I only had nine Hennie stags and cocks but I won thirty-four fights without a single loss. This was reported to Grit & Steel. These Hennies were fought with any one that could match the weight, the great Sweater McGinnis included.

    I married in 1935 and my wife informed me that she didn't like game chickens. I have five stags ready to fight so I told her if she would go with me and see them fight I would dispose of them. (A man will do funny things when he is in love.)

    We were having a brush fight with about a dozen of the local cockers. I matched Sweater with a 4-8 Black Hennie stag; Sweater had a hot Grey Toppie that coupled and wry necked my stag in the first buckle. When I set my stag down for the second pitting he just rolled over on his back but when the Grey reached for a bill hold it sounded like a snaer drum and the fight was over. While I was cutting off the heels my wife asked me for some money to bet on our stags. I won all five fights and the best Pal a man ever had, my wonderful wife Opal.

    So as long as I live I will always breed a few of what I believe to be the greatest fighting cocks on earth, Dawson's Black Hennies.[/font]

  16. #16
    SkYLine
    Guest

    Re: History of Some Blood Lines

    OAK GROVE

    Oak Grove is Gene Brown Of Mississippi, He acquired his Yellow Leg Hatch by way Of Mr. Lawerence Arrington. They were given to Lawrence from Marvin Anderson of Alabama and was 1/2 Ray Hoskins of Texas 1/2 Andersons. They are very aggressive, hard hitting fowl, deep game and are very distinctive fighter chickens that Cut Deep, Some of the Same Fowls were Later Purchased from Carol Nesmith for Breeding Purposes. Which came from Marvin Anderson and Harold Brown. It was like a kelso, high station, dark red, pea-comb, and 3 or four white streamers with white tips on his wings

  17. #17
    SkYLine
    Guest

    Re: History of Some Blood Lines

    ClaretsBy: C. C. Crenshaw
    From Johnson's History of Game Strains

    I notice in Grit and Steel that many are advertising "pure Madigin Clarets" from many parts of the nation. There is a question in my mind now and has been for some time as to just where and when they got this blood. I am talking about the good old time blood now, as Mr. Madigin has said (I quote from the Oct., 1937 Grit and Steel)," I have many letters of inquiry concerning those who advertise Clarets. I have never sold a Claret. I have only given away a few cocks; no hens. I raise them all at Ft. Erie and there alone and the only way anyone has to get them is to seal them, of course, all who walk them for me have one half blood and if they inbreed them, can get them, but they are useless when inbred. I only to give you an insight into the methods of those who profess to have pure Clarets." Author's note: Concerning above, it is now an established fact that Madigin did give away hens to several different men. As for what Mr. Madigin has to say about those walking cocks for him having only one half the Claret blood and not being able to get more except by inbreeding: If a man bred form a Claret stag or cock walked for Madigin and then bred the stags and pullets form him together that would be inbreeding but would not increase the percent of Claret blood. Madigin always asked me not to return blinkers or broke billed cocks, etc. I always killed these as I did not want to breed them and did not think I had a right to fight them. But anyone walking cocks for Madigin who wanted to breed them could breed said battered cock year after year back over his daughters until soon they would be seven/eighth or fifteen/sixteenth his blood (and likewise that percent of Claret blood). However this would be line breeding rather than inbreeding. A man could breed from a different stag or cock (from Madigin for purpose of walking) each year over the pullets out of the stag or cock bred the preceding year. Regardless of the definition you give inbreeding, you will realize that such a man can not possibly be inbreeding any closer that Madigin himself. R.L. Sanders bred from Madigin's Clarets until his are thirty/one thirty/second Claret blood. I can not understand a man having the great amount of intelligence required to become the success Mr. Madigin was making such a statement in writing as above.[/font]

  18. #18
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    west virginia
    Posts
    7
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: History of Some Blood Lines

    do you have any hinnies for sell by Paul Dawson

  19. #19
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    west virginia
    Posts
    7
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: History of Some Blood Lines

    kelso that is what there really made from i have a pair of them for sell if any one is intrested

  20. #20
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    west virginia
    Posts
    7
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: History of Some Blood Lines

    they are 3/4 cecil davis kelso and they other green leged hatch i have both green and yellow legged sweaters

Similar Threads

  1. Old blood lines of Mr. Minor.
    By clearfork in forum Chicken Talk
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: June 10th, 2014, 06:44 AM
  2. New Blood lines?
    By gaffer in forum Chicken Talk
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: October 5th, 2011, 04:11 PM
  3. High Action Hatch, blood composition and history...
    By pogibots in forum Usapang Manok
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: March 29th, 2011, 10:18 PM
  4. blood lines and their game
    By JMG_GameFarm in forum Chicken Talk
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: February 10th, 2011, 08:37 AM
  5. 10 Top Best Blood lines!!!
    By alchiko in forum Chit-Chat
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: December 11th, 2006, 01:19 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •