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Thread: Knife Alignment

  1. #1
    Member gchrissuarez's Avatar
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    Knife Alignment

    3 checks for Proper Knife Alignment

    First check, look at the blade from the bottom view(talampakan) it should coincide that the blade is parallel to the shank(12 o' clock) and the tip will point at the prop toe tendon. The blade and the prop toe should be forming a small letter V. The blade is positioned in between the spur and the prop toe. And not directly below the spur as there will be high probability that your rooster will hit himself.

    Now the 2nd check is to make sure that the knife tip does not go over the midline of the body of the rooster, thus preventing probability of self-inflicted injury. Look at the knife from the back of the rooster, letting the feet loose, so when you straighten both feet up, the tip of the knife should be in between the them and is in turn pointed at the a-s-s. Do not go over the a-s-s. There is a high probability that your rooster will hit himself.

    If you have the 1st check right and the 2nd check still goes over the a-s-s, you probably are using a longer knife than one that fits your rooster.

    The 3rd check will determine if you have the knife point set at low, medium or high point. Look at the knife and shank sideways, if the tip of the knife is lower than the center of the spur, it is low point. If higher than the center of the spur, it is high point. If exactly center of the spur, mid point.

    Also regarding the 3rd check, if one sets the knife at high point, you are giving away a little reach advantage.

    Hope this helps you in tying your knives. Goog Luck on all your fights.

    Chris Suarez

  2. #2
    Member gchrissuarez's Avatar
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    Re: Knife Alignment

    I make sure that the very back of the knife base is coming out from the very side of the prop toe and not apart but when it comes to the neck and the blade itself, it should be forming a small letter V.

    A caution with forming a small letter V in your knife setting...

    There are times that the prop toe of the rooster is misaligned, like for example the prop toe is leaning more to the inside. If you tie the knife on a rooster like the example and make it a point to have a small V with your knife setting, your knife point will be "PASOK" or "SULOD" thus your rooster will have a disadvantage during the fight because the point will be nowhere near the desired set/target and your rooster might even hit himself when it comes to the drag and they are tired from the fight.

    You can check the prop toe by letting him stand and observe or while holding the rooster, curl the front toes, if the prop toe is touching the middle toe or slightly in between the middle and the inner toe, then go ahead and tie it with a small V. But if the prop toe is touching the inner toe, then tie the knife parallel to the prop toe.

    This is just another check when tying the knife.

    Chris Suarez

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    Re: Knife Alignment

    i agree 100%....but i usually check the knife if it is low,mid or high point before i tie the cotton tape or "sapin"...another thing also,is i usually check the feet if its palabas or normal,meaning normally aligned or palabas,so that i can adjust the "paunan" o that i can avoid pressing more thus making your bird hurt...

  4. #4
    Senior Member ARESFORTUN's Avatar
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    Re: Knife Alignment

    Verrrrry Nice thread!....

    Sir Chris, i will really appreciate it if you can post alignment pictures. thanks and more power!

    Regards,

  5. #5
    Member gchrissuarez's Avatar
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    Re: Knife Alignment

    Another important check from sir magsaubay08 to properly set the knife on our roosters.


    Ares, I will place the pics here soon.


    Guys, Please share your other checks for proper knife alignment.

  6. #6
    hAYN JJ
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    Re: Knife Alignment

    Great thread!!!..............

    Thanks for sharing.........

  7. #7
    Senior Member royandres314's Avatar
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    Re: Knife Alignment

    good thread G. Chris ur very 100 % right regarding the alignment of tari knife, its worth sharing ur expertised to others, regards.

  8. #8
    Member conquistador NV's Avatar
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    Re: Knife Alignment

    SIRS, KNIFE TYING IS VERY TRICKY. WHEN I AM WATCHING BIGTIME DERBIES HERE IN METRO MANILA, IT IS MY PRACTICE TO VISIT THE GAFFING ROOM AND OBSERVE KNIFE ALIGNMENT FROM KNOWN BIGTIME GAFFERS LIKE NOLI ESTRELLADO, ALBERT MARGEN AND MANY OTHERS AND OBSERVE HW THE ROOSTERS HIT THEIR OPPONENTS...

    IT WILL BE HARD EXPLAINING HERE BUT IT WILL BE BETTER TO MAKE THIS PRACTICE OF OBSERVING KNIFE ALIGNMENT.. IVE BEEN TYING KNIFE TO MY OWN ROOSTERS BE IT IN DERBIES, HACKFIGHT AND TUPADAS,, HEHEHE.. I AM SATISFIED THE WAY I AM DOING IT.. JUST ONE BIG CLEAN PUNCH MY COCK NEEDS AND THE FIGHT IS OVER,,

    IN ADDITION, DO NOT TIE KNIFE INTENDED FOR COCKS TO A STAG OR BULLSTAG.. MAKE IT PROPORTION.. AND BE FAMILIAR WITH THEIR FIGHTING STYLE. IF THEY ATE SALTOS, IT WILL BE BETTER IF THE KNIFE IS TIED NEAR THE PROP TOE OR MEJO LABAS, BUT OBSERVE WELL BECAUSE THERE ARE SOME PROP TOES THAT ARE NOT NATURALLY ALIGNED,... IF YOUR COCK IS A SHUFFLER, IT WILL BETTER IF THE KNIFE WILL BE TIED "pasok"...

    most important is, do not go away from the alignment of the spur, it is because the spur of the cock is his natural weapon and at all times when fighting, he will used it to hurt his opponent..

  9. #9
    Member gchrissuarez's Avatar
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    Re: Knife Alignment

    Nice input, Sir Conquistador.

    Another check: (especially for those with using Fork knives without toe rings):
    Be careful not to set the knife to low because the blade might be touching the ground and the rooster will have a hard time walking and maintaining balance during the fight.

    Usually we can notice that during the heating stage and re-tie the knife but there was a fight I witnessed that the rooster was ok during heating but when it was released for the fight, it was walking awkwardly and upon careful observation, it was caused by the knife being tied too low and touching the ground.

  10. #10
    Member rkysat's Avatar
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    Re: Knife Alignment


    Very nice infos from our dear experts !!! Keep on coming guys ....

    cheers

  11. #11
    Senior Member jack_kie's Avatar
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    Re: Knife Alignment

    Quote Originally Posted by gchrissuarez
    Nice input, Sir Conquistador.

    Another check: (especially for those with using Fork knives without toe rings):
    Be careful not to set the knife to low because the blade might be touching the ground and the rooster will have a hard time walking and maintaining balance during the fight.

    Usually we can notice that during the heating stage and re-tie the knife but there was a fight I witnessed that the rooster was ok during heating but when it was released for the fight, it was walking awkwardly and upon careful observation, it was caused by the knife being tied too low and touching the ground.
    You are right sir! toe rings are also used as reference on the knife setting. without toe ring, when a newbie gaffer is careless knife could be set too high from the proptoe that reach advantage is compromised. And as you mentioned it coul be set too low also

  12. #12
    Member gchrissuarez's Avatar
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    Re: Knife Alignment

    Good morning to all!

    If I were to choose, I would choose to have the knife set a little higher because although we are giving away a little reach advantage, the rooster will still have complete balance and thus will still be able to connect whereas when the knife is touching the ground the roosters will be having a hard time to balance himself because the garol is hurting his shank whenever he set his knife leg down on the ground and in effect, he will instead be using the other leg(the one without the knife) to hit his opponent.

    Notice what a rooster's feet does before he tries to give a blow, he firmly grips the ground before jumping.

  13. #13
    Member gchrissuarez's Avatar
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    Re: Knife Alignment

    Quote Originally Posted by royandres314
    good thread G. Chris ur very 100 % right regarding the alignment of tari knife, its worth sharing ur expertised to others, regards.
    Hello Roy,

    Just sharing what I set on my chickens. Everybody has his own ideas and have settings differently but I am glad that you agree with this setting. I am doing very well with this one.

    Regards
    Chris

  14. #14
    MARLON A. PO
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    Thumbs up Re: Knife Alignment

    Sir Chris,

    This is a very nice thread, please continue posting educational topics this will insure to help a lot to those who are still in the process of practicing Knife alignment. Thanks to all contributors, please post and post more. . .

    marlon

  15. #15
    Senior Member Taga_Cebu's Avatar
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    Re: Knife Alignment

    good infos for novice gaffers like me. keep it coming guys. thanks.

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    Re: Knife Alignment

    the type of material also used in making knife..in my humble little experience,power hack saws,e.g. eclipse,bahco(sandvic before),starret,etc.. the advantage is matagal mapurol,but the tool bits like ASAB 45 and 17,momax,cobalt,super cobalt madaling mapurol,isang gamitan lang,peru may sinusubo ang kaibigan ko na magpapahapdi ng sugat..dami na tumakbong manok sa derby,o di kaya ma off yung kalaban pag nasugatan..kaya bago bumili tari,alamin ang material na ginamit..ingat lang din sa sinubuhan,kasi yung sa akin,pagnasugatan ako kahit 2mm na hiwa lang,manhid yung buong braso ko,di ko na matatapospagtatari..

  17. #17
    Member redrooster25's Avatar
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    Re: Knife Alignment

    Quote Originally Posted by magsaubay08
    the type of material also used in making knife..in my humble little experience,power hack saws,e.g. eclipse,bahco(sandvic before),starret,etc.. the advantage is matagal mapurol,but the tool bits like ASAB 45 and 17,momax,cobalt,super cobalt madaling mapurol,isang gamitan lang,peru may sinusubo ang kaibigan ko na magpapahapdi ng sugat..dami na tumakbong manok sa derby,o di kaya ma off yung kalaban pag nasugatan..kaya bago bumili tari,alamin ang material na ginamit..ingat lang din sa sinubuhan,kasi yung sa akin,pagnasugatan ako kahit 2mm na hiwa lang,manhid yung buong braso ko,di ko na matatapospagtatari..
    Ang hapdi ng sugat depende sa klase ng hasa ng tari. Pag maganda ang hasa syempre super talas yan at abot agad sa laman. PAg ang isang rasor or blade na bago pag nasusugatan tayo mahapdi diba?

  18. #18
    Member gchrissuarez's Avatar
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    Re: Knife Alignment

    Quote Originally Posted by MARLON A. PO
    Sir Chris,

    This is a very nice thread, please continue posting educational topics this will insure to help a lot to those who are still in the process of practicing Knife alignment. Thanks to all contributors, please post and post more. . .

    marlon

    Marlon,

    Thank you, just keep on visiting the thread. I'll try to add some more in the days to follow.

    Chris

  19. #19
    Member gchrissuarez's Avatar
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    Re: Knife Alignment

    Quote Originally Posted by magsaubay08
    the type of material also used in making knife..in my humble little experience,power hack saws,e.g. eclipse,bahco(sandvic before),starret,etc.. the advantage is matagal mapurol,but the tool bits like ASAB 45 and 17,momax,cobalt,super cobalt madaling mapurol,isang gamitan lang,peru may sinusubo ang kaibigan ko na magpapahapdi ng sugat..dami na tumakbong manok sa derby,o di kaya ma off yung kalaban pag nasugatan..kaya bago bumili tari,alamin ang material na ginamit..ingat lang din sa sinubuhan,kasi yung sa akin,pagnasugatan ako kahit 2mm na hiwa lang,manhid yung buong braso ko,di ko na matatapospagtatari..

    Hello magsubay08,

    This is actually out of topic but I would like to rebut your statements regarding your observation of the material being used.

    Although the new power hacksaw blade now are excellent for knife making, materials with Cobalt content of 5-8% like the Super Cobalt H-5 HSS will have the edge last longer than the power hacksaw blades.

    There are actually several factors that I can say why you arrive at your conclusion but I will give out the most likely 2 reasons:

    1. The knife with the cut-off tool you were able to acquire was just being forge by heat(pokpok), so the heat treatment that the manufacturer of the cut-off tool has set is already lost and you would just ended up with a knife with a hit and miss in heat treatment by dipping the heated blade with your friends poison to cool off.

    2. The "basyador" that sharpened your knife is not a really good one if something happened in 3 or more knives in a set already.

    And one last thing, bragging on here of having poison in your knife doesn't guarantee that you will always win, there is always karma. Getting cut and already losing feeling in your arm is already proof of that. Next time, it might be more fatal, so better be careful or better yet, use one without poison. It is a "Gentleman's Game" after all.

    I had several customers wanted me to make them knives with poison and there was this particular one that really insisted and even offering to double the price, I declined all of them. I don't want my conscience bothering me if ever there would be an accident when using them.

    As I said this is already out of topic, this is just my take on our friend's comment.

    Take care and just play it "Fair"!

    Regards,
    Chris
    Last edited by gchrissuarez; June 3rd, 2008 at 09:21 AM.

  20. #20
    Senior Member ARESFORTUN's Avatar
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    Re: Knife Alignment

    Quote Originally Posted by gchrissuarez
    Good morning to all!

    If I were to choose, I would choose to have the knife set a little higher because although we are giving away a little reach advantage, the rooster will still have complete balance and thus will still be able to connect whereas when the knife is touching the ground the roosters will be having a hard time to balance himself because the garol is hurting his shank whenever he set his knife leg down on the ground and in effect, he will instead be using the other leg(the one without the knife) to hit his opponent.

    Notice what a rooster's feet does before he tries to give a blow, he firmly grips the ground before jumping.




    Nice observation sir! I just reviewed my taken sparring and fight clips and i noticed there is TRUTH to it.

    Thanks!


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    Re: Knife Alignment

    Higher point doesnt always mean good balance for a shuffler. In fact shufflers strike their feet from the outside going in just like clapping your hands, watch the slowmo of the sultada fights. Thus the knife is tied a bit on the inside, when out of balance it doesn't necessarily mean that the cock stands on his knife without his feet touching the ground because the the knife is inclined sideways. When I fight shuffler type fowls I use low point, 1-scale shorter and a dagger-like knife (not too curve) to hasten the speed of sticking and pulling the knife. Knives that are too curve, in bisaya "sangkong" delayes the thrust and pull effort of the fowl. Just my thoughts...

  22. #22
    hAYN JJ
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    Re: Knife Alignment

    Up Up Up.......

  23. #23
    MARLON A. PO
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    Angry Re: Knife Alignment

    When I observe during big time derbies there were a lot of gaffers who adopted different style specially in the process of tying the cloth or (hapin). This is a very important steps before setting your knife, thus this contibute fisrtly the major steps prior to SIR CHRIS 3 steps in checking the knife settings. I am 100% agree to what Sir chris is talking about the reminding steps in knife settings.

    Another thing is the size of the Blade or the length of the gaff that we should use to our cocks, could anyone in the thread members here could tell us what should be the desire length that is right to be tied to a cock with their corresponding weight? I appreciate much to all cockmates who can contribute or has a wide experience on this event so that others may also gain an experience.

    thanks. . . . .

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    Re: Knife Alignment

    sorry guys for posting that is out of the topic...just giving tips.

    I AGREE with you sir Chris, since it is heated(pokpok) then we have to dip it so that the metals hardness will return close to its orginal,but this is not considered CHEATING.
    its been fair and square in cebu,the one that is not accepted is the SHOWER TYPE OR YOU WILL WIPE THE KNIFE WITH CYANIDE...In cebu,cheaters has no place,if caught,he will be tied at the exit gate and all the people inside the arena will give a gift(2-3 hits in his face).

    I disagree with the "basyador" fault,he is well known for his basyada..

    sorry again..

    lets do it ir and square..

    regards

  25. #25
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    Re: Knife Alignment

    Lets Do It Fair And Square!!!

  26. #26
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    Re: Knife Alignment

    By The Way,i'm Not Promoting Or Advertising Knife From Cebu, Im Just Sharing My Humble Experience..sorry Again..cheers

  27. #27
    gaffer613
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    Re: Knife Alignment

    Quote Originally Posted by gchrissuarez
    Hello magsubay08,

    This is actually out of topic but I would like to rebut your statements regarding your observation of the material being used.

    Although the new power hacksaw blade now are excellent for knife making, materials with Cobalt content of 5-8% like the Super Cobalt H-5 HSS will have the edge last longer than the power hacksaw blades.

    There are actually several factors that I can say why you arrive at your conclusion but I will give out the most likely 2 reasons:

    1. The knife with the cut-off tool you were able to acquire was just being forge by heat(pokpok), so the heat treatment that the manufacturer of the cut-off tool has set is already lost and you would just ended up with a knife with a hit and miss in heat treatment by dipping the heated blade with your friends poison to cool off.

    2. The "basyador" that sharpened your knife is not a really good one if something happened in 3 or more knives in a set already.

    And one last thing, bragging on here of having poison in your knife doesn't guarantee that you will always win, there is always karma. Getting cut and already losing feeling in your arm is already proof of that. Next time, it might be more fatal, so better be careful or better yet, use one without poison. It is a "Gentleman's Game" after all.

    I had several customers wanted me to make them knives with poison and there was this particular one that really insisted and even offering to double the price, I declined all of them. I don't want my conscience bothering me if ever there would be an accident when using them.

    As I said this is already out of topic, this is just my take on our friend's comment.

    Take care and just play it "Fair"!

    Regards,
    Chris
    Nice Point regarding poisoned knives....

    By the way, did you know someone who claims to be good at this trade and making a good living?

    I know a few ..sssshhhhh just as they claimed they did. But I doubt co'z they seemed always loosing at the end of the day hahahaha

    "Be fair LOOSERS!!!" PEACE.

    Sir CHris ,

    Can you elaborate on how you tie knives on any kind of "PARTIDA's" as usually happened during tupadas... just curious sir..

    From TAOB, IBABAW, KANAN, TAPAT or maybe sa TUKA daw hahha

  28. #28
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    Re: Knife Alignment

    hahahaha..karma is always there for cheaters..

  29. #29
    Member gchrissuarez's Avatar
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    Re: Knife Alignment

    Quote Originally Posted by ARESFORTUN
    Nice observation sir! I just reviewed my taken sparring and fight clips and i noticed there is TRUTH to it.

    Thanks!

    [/B]
    Sir Ares,
    Just trying to share my observations. Good luck on your upcoming derbies!

  30. #30
    Member gchrissuarez's Avatar
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    Re: Knife Alignment

    Quote Originally Posted by FirstBlood
    Higher point doesnt always mean good balance for a shuffler. In fact shufflers strike their feet from the outside going in just like clapping your hands, watch the slowmo of the sultada fights. Thus the knife is tied a bit on the inside, when out of balance it doesn't necessarily mean that the cock stands on his knife without his feet touching the ground because the the knife is inclined sideways.
    FirstBlood,

    I think you misunderstood me.

    1. Higher point doesn't necessarily mean that the knife is tied on the outside and vice versa with the low point, doesn't necessarily mean that knife is tied on the inside.

    2. I agree with you that when a rooster is outbalanced, it does not always mean that the rooster is standing on his knife without his feet touching the ground, there are other factors. But a rooster which is standing on his knife without is feet touching the ground is ALWAYS outbalanced.

    Quote Originally Posted by FirstBlood
    When I fight shuffler type fowls I use low point, 1-scale shorter and a dagger-like knife (not too curve) to hasten the speed of sticking and pulling the knife. Knives that are too curve, in bisaya "sangkong" delayes the thrust and pull effort of the fowl. Just my thoughts...
    This is a very good point. You need straighter knives for shufflers for faster recoil of his legs, easy in and out to dish out those multiple strokes.

    Regards,
    Chris

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