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Thread: tying the knife the traditional way

  
  1. #1
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    tying the knife the traditional way

    much have been said about knife tying, again i would like to open a topic regarding the construction of the base in which the knife is being tied on.

    i've noticed that the majority of our gaffers be it in hackfights, smalltime and bigtime derbies still uses the long cotton tape or "sapin" in making the base.

    if the majority still practices the traditional way of tying the knife, does this mean that it is more effective than the other styles of knife tying like the leather boot and socketknives.

    in bigtime derbies too such as the WSD and Candelaria, 90% uses the long tape. i'm sure they are not stupid to use it if there is a chance that the knife will move after a few buckles as some claims, considering the amount of money involve in each bet.

    in bacolod, they might not consider you as a true gaffer if you don't tie the knife the traditional way.

    i'm here in iloilo now, and the one inch leather boot is gaining popularity.

    to my fellow cockers, what would you prefer, the leather boot or traditional cotton tape. why

  2. #2
    Senior Member banderado84's Avatar
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    ....have some practise lately...try to post it here:






    this may not be the finest heheh:
    Last edited by banderado84; April 22nd, 2007 at 05:52 PM.

  3. #3
    Senior Member banderado84's Avatar
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    Last edited by banderado84; April 22nd, 2007 at 05:52 PM.

  4. #4
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    Yeh, Sometimes the Knife moves. Like What happen to me last tuesday. I entered a Derby and It was my championship fight against a very well known cocker here in Cebu (Mr. Tatay Eddie Godornes) during the first buckle his cock didn't meet mind in the air but my cock did a 180 degree turn in the air and hit his cock in the back. In the second buckle my cock disabled his cock's left wing and leg which made it impossible for his cock to win. And when his cock was down he shuffled his cock's head which blinded the opponent. My cock didn't have one tiny wond. My friends already congradulated me for being champion and I was very happy.

    But something happen my cocks knife had move that made it impossible for him to kill his opponent. He shuffled and tried manytimes but he just couldn't kill him until he got very tired and his opponent blinded him becoz he was still trying to hit my cock even with a broken leg. Until the fight was declared a draw. It was so frustating that I wanted to pull my hair out of my head!

  5. #5
    Member gensoriano's Avatar
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    As advised by a "Mananari" to a non professional gaffer (ME).....

    ... I used to prefer the boot as you can complete the process (knife tying) quick and with less tape (sapin). However, as advised by a pro (Ka Along Cruz of Pulilan, Bulacan), the best according to him is the traditional method (he claimed to have tried all padding methods) as long as you know how to do it right. I followed his advice and I think he got a point.


    gensoriano

  6. #6
    Senior Member banderado84's Avatar
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    ...Gensor si Along ba yung nabulag na natalsikan yata ng tari? yung pwesto ay sa corner lot? dun gawa sa pulilan yung ilan tari ko noon na 50 caliber.... :sprcool:
    Last edited by banderado84; April 22nd, 2007 at 05:52 PM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member banderado84's Avatar
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    Last edited by banderado84; April 22nd, 2007 at 05:52 PM.

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    Senior Member banderado84's Avatar
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    Last edited by banderado84; April 22nd, 2007 at 05:52 PM.

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    Senior Member banderado84's Avatar
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    Last edited by banderado84; April 22nd, 2007 at 05:52 PM.

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    Senior Member banderado84's Avatar
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    Last edited by banderado84; April 22nd, 2007 at 05:52 PM.

  11. #11
    Senior Member banderado84's Avatar
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    ....last 2 postings are bundled..... jusy little imagination needed lol....just to have practice on tupadahan first....and set your own sight with your own tari....have a good search on this site coz its been discuss widely b4...
    Last edited by banderado84; April 22nd, 2007 at 05:52 PM.

  12. #12
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    Pudding is the foundation were you can set the knife properly within your prepared aim. Regardless of application, whether leather boot, socket or traditional cloth pudding, the tendency of moving is inevitable if the material being used is not suitable for this purpose. It all boils down to adhesiveness of material that can withstand the force and the firmness or stableness in securing the knife. If I have to choice between the two method, I will prepare the old traditional pudding. Why? I am good at it with satisfying results. and the chances of moving or going off site is very minimal. The only advantage in heeling leather boot or socket is time spent, which is lesser. Neverthless, the end results is the same, depending on what perspective you want to imply. It's a matter of personal preference. My one cent input.

  13. #13
    Member gensoriano's Avatar
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    Banderado,

    the last time I saw Ka Along and Eddie (his brother) was January of this year. Unless, what you said just happened recently, I dont think they are the one's you are talking about. Tumatari pa rin, medyo nagkaidad na nga lang. On our side of Bulacan, these brothers (KaCardo, as the elder one) are considered masters in this craft. :hippie:

    gensoriano

  14. #14
    Simurgh
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    Leatherboot are just for gaffer's convenience, it affects the bone/ligament flexibility.

    trad. cotton tape though wrapped snugly, can still give freedom of ligament/bone movemment of the shank. thus, chickens tied with cotton tape properly moves better than chickens tied with leatherboot.

    If you are to examine the shank , it is not a solid bone but compose of at least two bones and some ligaments.

    Can everyone be able to notice the movements difference chicken tied with leatherbioot and with cotton tape? nah! it takes long term observations to draw this conclusion.

    my piece

  15. #15
    Senior Member Camarines's Avatar
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    A friend of mine use a combination of sapin and leather boot. He wraps a short sapin about 12inches long halfway then puts the leather boot and then finish it by wrapping the sapin around the leather boot to secure it. Sapin is not practical in cold weather that's why leather boot in winter and sapin in hot weather is the way to go. Some use friction tape then the leather boot so it won't move.

  16. #16
    Senior Member banderado84's Avatar
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    .....Is the paunan elimanated or not needed in a leather boots?

  17. #17
    Senior Member Camarines's Avatar
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    Banderado84,

    It depends on what kind of boot you're using. Filipino leather boot has paunan but the Mexican boot is different. I believe the Mexican boot incorporates the paunan already in the way the boot is shaped.

  18. #18
    Senior Member banderado84's Avatar
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    ...anybody got picture of Mexican boots or the PI version?...thanks Camarines.

  19. #19
    Senior Member banderado84's Avatar
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    Pls look d next post....:blush:

  20. #20
    Senior Member banderado84's Avatar
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    ...PLS post it...if there is any hint of MISTAKE & it will be delited right AWAY.... dont wanna misled anybody specially the beginers.... & am not a gaffer in profession...just learned it with my own kuryosity and some tuition fees along the way heheh...


    SAPIN & REFERENCE:
    Last edited by banderado84; April 22nd, 2007 at 05:52 PM.

  21. #21
    sawala
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    Kakmeyts;

    I've always wondered,,,how do you determine the number of folds of sapin to apply over/under the spur? Is it basic gaffing fundamentals or determined by the aim/alignment you want to achieve?

    I wanted to learn how to tie the knife (who doesn't?), but limited time/resources kept me from trying it, will I learn just by reading your posts or actual demo by an expert is the way to go? Or both?

    Thanks!

    Kung malapit lang sana ako kay Sundowner

    sawala

  22. #22
    Senior Member banderado84's Avatar
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    ....kakmeyt...best is you observed the actual gaffing few times first....then dry a left leg of a talunan...then buy some gamit in a poultry supply... then practise in your spare time ...then make kabit in a tupadahan heheh win or loose shempre masaya ka pag WIN.... :lol:

  23. #23
    Senior Member Camarines's Avatar
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    Mexican style boot
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    Last edited by Camarines; July 20th, 2009 at 01:48 AM.

  24. #24
    Member Simurgh's Avatar
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    to begin with learning the actual sapining, get a piece of cloth and make butas that will kasya the two legs of the manokis , then you can hang the manokis the whole day while you are actually learning the actual sapining and tying the knife

  25. #25
    Kapo
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    Thumbs up How to put sapin on Filipino style

    Thanks Guys
    This is what Sabong .net is about gaining information you broaden up my knowledege.

  26. #26
    sawala
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    nothing beats an on-the-job-training talaga, di ba kakmeyts,,,

    i'll wait for the opportune time n hope that kakmeyts like banderado, Camarines, victe, earan, Sundowner, and lots more, will show us how in one of the kitakits sa Pinas...

    slamat po.

  27. #27
    filamforks
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    Paddings.....

    Black Jap,

    It sounds like the 14 - 18 inch waxed cotton padding is not really that popular as some claims it be . You did not even mention it in your observation of what gaffers in Iloilo are using.
    IMHO, 14-18" of sapin is too thin. Versatility of the knife as well as the comfort of the bird on its knife leg would be compromised(at least the way I like my knife tied).
    Like I said in another thread, the traditional long waxed cotton wrap for sapin is just now a piece of history to me. My own "Nemy's Roll" is my ultimate sapin. A few members in here saw it hands on and they like it too. Double Action, JBAB-ALAS, & Silverwings to name a few.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  28. #28
    Member Simurgh's Avatar
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    The very secret in learning how to tie the knife is:




    Try and try and never lose heart, if you fail try gain and again and again, its worth it!

  29. #29
    Senior Member Camarines's Avatar
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    Filipino boot
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    Last edited by Camarines; July 20th, 2009 at 01:47 AM.

  30. #30
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    nice

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