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  1. #31
    Senior Member joel mat's Avatar
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    Re: moisture

    Quote Originally Posted by Mudflop
    Here is my take on moisture. Not taking away anything from others comments. All are helpfull.

    Gut Moisture and Flesh Moisture are two separate things. Gut moisture is not problem during the feeding or before showing. They can dump our loads or lots of water like droppings with little brown pellet sized turds. It don't matter as the end result is what maatters. However, on flesh moisture if too wet they fall apart quickly when hit and are too sluggish to move around in the pit. They will hit harder, but they can't get their aim accurate. Now if they are too dry they will break way up than every before throw a thousand licks, but none could penetrate as they can't stretch far enough. Watching the droppings is a good indicator, but a conditioner needs to learn how to feel the cocks and each type of family also will have a different feel. It takes practice. When holding the cock try moving the skin slightly below the crop with your fingers on the breast if it moves easily without being able to be lifted too much the moisture may be right. It the skin is very loose and could be lifted they may be too wet. If the skin is hard to move when pushed with your fingers they may be too dry. Another indication of being too dry if the legs don't move backward too far and the leg muscles are too firm. This is how I check my birds, but knowing your cocks and knowing how to upload moisture and then feeding dryier feed and withholding a little water to pull out the moisture from their muscle cavities will make them feel wider and bigger yet the weight stays the same. Every conditioning facility must have a good set of scales as in a normal cock is at least 55% of body weight to be moisture. When a cock is being worked, then rested and fed properly and watered. His system will automatically upload enough moisture for his normal nourishment plus a little more to compensate for the work that took out some of his flesh moisture. This is why we work the cocks in increments so they will continue to upload adequate moisture into the body muscle cavities and into some bones to compensate for the next working session. When we begin the process of working less they will begin to drink less yet still hold the moisture in muscle cavities. When we change into drier feed and withhold water, they will pull the moisture from their muscle cavities to properly digest the drier feed. Watching the droppings is a good indicator of how much water is being utilized in the digestive system. Some obtained from the water provided and some from the muscle cavities. You can tell as the muscle cavity moisture when pulled will widen the cock and if widened too much will have a hollow feel somewhat like a volleyball air up a little too much. They must feel wider and not hollow and not too heavy or what is called leady. In addition the muscles will feel puffy and somewhat springy. This takes practice and once you find it you will never forget it as the fowl will show at least ten times better than a normal spar. In addition they must be coming up on point when walking up the stairs to the pit. On point is when their legs are drawn closer and their tail bone closes a bit from being empty and their guts and body organs drawn upward towards the front of the body. The gizzard then rest under the left leg and can be felt by rubbing slightly the body inside of the left leg. Don't over do it as the gizzard is very sensitive, but rubbing slightly with your finger tips you will feel it if it is in place. It feels as the outside edge of a silver dollar. When you learn to feel for the gizzard, you will know when you are about to let loose a well condition, on point fighting machine. Sorry for so long as these things are hard to explain. Hope this helps.
    wellsaid sir..............

  2. #32
    Senior Member joel mat's Avatar
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    Re: moisture

    therefore bottomline moisture is the primary factor in conditioning gamefowl.....

  3. #33
    Senior Member BILLABONG's Avatar
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    Re: moisture

    Quote Originally Posted by Mudflop
    When holding the cock try moving the skin slightly below the crop with your fingers on the breast if it moves easily without being able to be lifted too much the moisture may be right..
    Mudflop, can u elaborate further pls .....

  4. #34
    Senior Member Mudflop's Avatar
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    Re: moisture

    It takes practice and easier shown. However, the skin below the crop on the breast of cocks and stags can move easily when you push it slightly with your fingers. The ones with lots of flesh moisture moves easier. The ones with less flesh moisture moves tighter. It takes practice.

  5. #35
    Senior Member BILLABONG's Avatar
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    Re: moisture

    Quote Originally Posted by Mudflop
    It takes practice and easier shown. However, the skin below the crop on the breast of cocks and stags can move easily when you push it slightly with your fingers. The ones with lots of flesh moisture moves easier. The ones with less flesh moisture moves tighter. It takes practice.
    when you say below the crop, ito b yung pitso? when pushing which direction forward or sides? very sorry to ask many detailed questions just wanted to more from the master

  6. #36
    Senior Member Mudflop's Avatar
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    Re: moisture

    You can push the skin both sideways, upward and downward. Yes, you are correct, the breast area below the feed bag. Also check their leg muscles to make sure they are not too tight and the leg can move backward easily. When holding the cock (while on point before showing) hold him facing forward and with your finger tips push in a little on the breast muscles. If they feel puffy as if there are air pockets they are ready. If the breast muscles feels flat and hard then they lost the moisture and will not show as good as they are supposed to. It is a good idea to practice this before sparing. Once you find the right feel you can predict how well they will show.

    Hope this helps. Don't worry about questions. I too will ask many questions. One day you may be the one providing the explanations. It is the best way to promote our sport. Good luck.

  7. #37
    Moderator cnucum's Avatar
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    Re: moisture

    Hi Mudflop,

    Like to add 2 more cents to my tip before...

    Anyway, as mudflop said, takes a little practice... With that said, it doesn't mean you need to do that practice on the actual conditioning of fowls to be fought...

    Do a "mock-conditioning" do all your conditioning routine to a couple of fowls, try to adjust their moisture in what way you would and check what mudflop is trying to say here... Better right? It will give you flexibility to adjust your conditioning method if things don't work out that well at first (especially for a new method) without sacrificing a few fowls (and money) to know if it's ok...

    Chris
    Aseel d Past, Present & Future - M.Romulo

  8. #38
    Senior Member BILLABONG's Avatar
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    Re: moisture

    Quote Originally Posted by Mudflop
    You can push the skin both sideways, upward and downward. Yes, you are correct, the breast area below the feed bag. Also check their leg muscles to make sure they are not too tight and the leg can move backward easily. When holding the cock (while on point before showing) hold him facing forward and with your finger tips push in a little on the breast muscles. If they feel puffy as if there are air pockets they are ready. If the breast muscles feels flat and hard then they lost the moisture and will not show as good as they are supposed to. It is a good idea to practice this before sparing. Once you find the right feel you can predict how well they will show.

    Hope this helps. Don't worry about questions. I too will ask many questions. One day you may be the one providing the explanations. It is the best way to promote our sport. Good luck.
    Thx Mudflop, i know how it feels as im a very keen observer on my stocks hehehe but at that time i dont know what it was i thought it was just fats behind the flesh hehehe now i finally got the right answer woopeee!!!!

  9. #39
    Senior Member Mudflop's Avatar
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    Re: moisture

    Yes, pls do as chris stated. Always practice on birds you are conditioning. Always check how they feel before sparing. Don't fight a bird just to check if he is ready. Fight them when you and the cocks you are conditioning are ready and they have the feel of a well conditioned on point cock. You can email me at Mudflop@msn.com if you have any questions. I will help anyone that needs additional information or wants to learn some of extra things I do to get them ready.

  10. #40
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    Re: moisture

    does the color of the dropping matter?

  11. #41
    Senior Member Mudflop's Avatar
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    Re: moisture

    In my opinion, no, not as long as they are healthy going though the conditioning period. After the cock empties out his system the last droppings are from the cecum. The cecum is a blind pouch at the juncture of the small and large intestine that resembles the human appendix. When the waste material is removed from the cecum it is normally wet and sticky, brownish in color and has a higher than normal odor. The next droppings are normally cream looking about the size of a nickle. This is when they should be provided some sort of holding feed as they are getting empty and on point. Don't show one that has passed his point. Try to show them coming up on point or on point.

    However, if they are not healthy there are certain signs to look in the droppings and one is the color. If the cock has foamy droppings, he got worms. White liquid pasty like droppings is a sign of salmonella. Blood like droppings is coccidiosis.

  12. #42
    Senior Member popoi's Avatar
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    Re: moisture

    bump bump bump bump bump

  13. #43
    Cyberfriends benjoy's Avatar
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    Re: moisture

    Quote Originally Posted by Mudflop
    In my opinion, no, not as long as they are healthy going though the conditioning period. After the cock empties out his system the last droppings are from the cecum. The cecum is a blind pouch at the juncture of the small and large intestine that resembles the human appendix. When the waste material is removed from the cecum it is normally wet and sticky, brownish in color and has a higher than normal odor. The next droppings are normally cream looking about the size of a nickle. This is when they should be provided some sort of holding feed as they are getting empty and on point. Don't show one that has passed his point. Try to show them coming up on point or on point.

    However, if they are not healthy there are certain signs to look in the droppings and one is the color. If the cock has foamy droppings, he got worms. White liquid pasty like droppings is a sign of salmonella. Blood like droppings is coccidiosis.

    This is one of the best thread thanks for sharing sir MUDFLOP

  14. #44
    Senior Member bebs espinosa's Avatar
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    Re: moisture

    Quote Originally Posted by Mudflop
    In my opinion, no, not as long as they are healthy going though the conditioning period. After the cock empties out his system the last droppings are from the cecum. The cecum is a blind pouch at the juncture of the small and large intestine that resembles the human appendix. When the waste material is removed from the cecum it is normally wet and sticky, brownish in color and has a higher than normal odor. The next droppings are normally cream looking about the size of a nickle. This is when they should be provided some sort of holding feed as they are getting empty and on point. Don't show one that has passed his point. Try to show them coming up on point or on point.

    However, if they are not healthy there are certain signs to look in the droppings and one is the color. If the cock has foamy droppings, he got worms. White liquid pasty like droppings is a sign of salmonella. Blood like droppings is coccidiosis.

    Very well explained........ thanks for sharing.............

  15. #45
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    Unhappy Re: moisture

    Quote Originally Posted by hyper
    for the last time up up up uuuuuuupppppppppp

    I am so glad theres brothers on here that take the questions serious so even the experienced still learn from one another!

  16. #46
    Senior Member Mudflop's Avatar
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    Re: moisture

    In addition to moisture control being the key to success. A conditioner should also be observative of types of feed being provided throughout the keep and towards the end before showing.

    With good strong nourishing food provided, a little moisture and rest, cocks will gain a few ounces in weight. Even the small cocks will gain about a half ounce. This is what is called "Springing". Not all cocks in the keep will spring, but those that do, are your strongest. This is why I previously stated that a conditioner must have a good set of scales. In addition he or she must document the weight of each cock before each feeding throughout the keep or conditioning period.

    Always remember that certain conditioning aids being used in the keep may affect the moisture content of the cock. This is why I tend to stick to what is natural. No chemicals, just natural food and vitamins. I also stimulate their adrenal glands for additional production of natural hormones by showing them a pullet each day.

    Good Luck

  17. #47
    Member DON's Avatar
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    Re: moisture

    If You Hold Your Gamecock Will You Be Able To Feel If It Is Too Much Moisture Or Too Dry? Is It True That They Could Absorb The Moisture In Your Palms If It Is Sweating?

  18. #48
    Senior Member Mudflop's Avatar
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    Re: moisture

    Chickens don't perspire like we do. They perspire by breathing out their moisture. By the same token they can bring in the moisture needed from the air they breath inward. This is why some folks brings ice or buckets of water and wet all around the ground area of their holding area of their cocks. Maybe their cocks were fed a higher than normal protein level or water was withheld to allow them to dry up a bit. The idea is to get them empty with legs drawn up and with firery eyes and alert of his surroundings and in the best of health possible. How you achieve this is insignificant, but the failure to do so will be costly.

    Continously holding the cocks in your hands will help to dry them out as their body temperature is lower than a normal person thus creating a heat transfer. Letting them get hot before showing will force them to dry up, but also feeding protein feed causes heat and therefore the last feeding should be lower protein and a carbo type feeding. Everyone has a their own method to feed out a show. I can't even begin to imagine how to feed out a show in the P.I. as I have not experienced the weather and humidity there. But if the weather is hot, humid, I would feed more wet food and if it is rainy and cold I would feed dryier and even adding a little protein in the diet. Personnally I would find someone that is continuously showing some exceptional well conditioned cocks and learn from them as they are the experts.

  19. #49
    Accredited Merchant tjtcokngacademy's Avatar
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    MOISTURE MANAGEMENT

    Quote Originally Posted by joel mat
    doc...gd day..what is moisture?to gamefowl,what is the importance.,how to maintain moisture?during pointing of a cock...how to obtain moisture? thanks in advance.....

    PART 1
    MOISTURE MANAGEMENT
    Why are we so concerned about moisture? In the first place, to properly condition cocks, we have what we call their “peak”. Meaning to say, they are at their lowest possible weight, but still at their greatest strength. We can effect this through the correct management of moisture and water of our fowls.
    Water affects a gamecock in training in two ways:
    1) As a supply of moisture needed by the body for normal bodily functions
    2) As a temperature regulator
    For digestion, water acts on the grains and pellets as a solvent and helps in fermentation. At this point, acids, proteins and carbohydrates are further enhanced before they are passed on to the gizzard for further digestion.
    Last edited by tjtcokngacademy; June 6th, 2009 at 09:08 AM.
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  20. #50
    Accredited Merchant tjtcokngacademy's Avatar
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    MOISTURE MANAGEMENT

    PART 2
    From Day 1 to 17 , water is always present. However, on the 18th day, you must be very careful in assessing the condition of each fowl. Ask yourself the following questions:
    1) How much water does your cock consume or drink during the day?
    One way of doing this is to draw a line inside his drinking pot right on the very first day of the keep to remember the amount of water you put in each morning. By nightfall, take note how much water he consumed.
    2) Is the cock eating his usual amount of feeds? How does he respond to carbo-loading?
    On the 18th day we have started adjusting the carbohydrates content of the feeds. If the cock has the right amount of moisture in his body he would consume the same amount of feeds he is accustomed to.
    3) How are his droppings? Are they watery, dry or moist?
    To
    guage the fowl’s body moisture observe their droppings. By moist we mean the droppings do not splatter when voided but have the right texture and form when dropped. If your cock is having a hard time passing his stool, he must be too dry.
    If he is too dry, he won’t cut. If he is too wet, he will be sluggish and won’t cut accurately.

    4)
    How does each cock feel to the touch?
    This is something no medical or scientific means can tell you. You’ve got to have the FEEL for properly conditioned cocks and experience would be the best teacher.
    5) Finally, how is the weather? Is it a cloudy day, sunny, rainy or hot?
    During hot summer months, the cock will certainly drink more water to regain lost moisture and at the same time to regulate his body temperature.
    Wind is also a factor because it makes them dry.
    If your cocks have been properly conditioned, they will drink less water for the rest of the keep.
    Last edited by tjtcokngacademy; June 6th, 2009 at 09:29 AM.
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  21. #51
    Senior Member joel mat's Avatar
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    Re: MOISTURE MANAGEMENT


    1) How much water does your cock consume or drink during the day?
    One way of doing this is to draw a line inside his drinking pot right on the very first day of the keep to remember the amount of water you put in each morning. By nightfall, take note how much water he consumed.
    2) Is the cock eating his usual amount of feeds? How does he respond to carbo-loading?
    On the 18th day we have started adjusting the carbohydrates content of the feeds. If the cock has the right amount of moisture in his body he would consume the same amount of feeds he is accustomed to.
    3) How are his droppings? Are they watery, dry or moist?
    To
    guage the fowl’s body moisture observe their droppings. By moist we mean the droppings do not splatter when voided but have the right texture and form when dropped. If your cock is having a hard time passing his stool, he must be too dry.
    If he is too dry, he won’t cut. If he is too wet, he will be sluggish and won’t cut accurately.

    4)
    How does each cock feel to the touch?
    This is something no medical or scientific means can tell you. You’ve got to have the FEEL for properly conditioned cocks and experience would be the best teacher.
    5) Finally, how is the weather? Is it a cloudy day, sunny, rainy or hot?
    During hot summer months, the cock will certainly drink more water to regain lost moisture and at the same time to regulate his body temperature.
    Wind is also a factor because it makes them dry.
    If your cocks have been properly conditioned, they will drink less water for the rest of the keep.
    [/quote]
    thank you very!! much doc tjt in appreciating my thread ,it is my honor that you answer my question on thread like you ,as a prestigeous individual in sabong industry,im very much lucky that you give me a very nice and informative advice that i can use in conditioning a gamefowl

  22. #52
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    Re: moisture

    To the top............................................... ................

  23. #53
    Senior Member fernan1552's Avatar
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    Re: moisture

    to the top too............................................... .........................
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigtimber View Post
    To the top............................................... ................

  24. #54
    Member brown lords's Avatar
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    Re: moisture

    nice thread,very informative,thanks a lot

  25. #55
    Senior Member anthony0079's Avatar
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    Re: moisture

    This is what we use to Monitor Moisture and Temperature inside the cockhouse
    Attached Images Attached Images

  26. #56
    Member kngkhungkernitz's Avatar
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    Re: moisture

    nice info's keep it up guys

  27. #57
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    Re: moisture

    very informative thread,helps a lot esp beginner like me.....keep it up....

  28. #58
    Junior Member Lemon Mafia's Avatar
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    Re: moisture

    One of the most Informative thread explaining moisture. good help for us beginners..

  29. #59
    Senior Member romy 3388's Avatar
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    Re: moisture

    Quote Originally Posted by joel mat View Post
    doc...gd day..what is moisture?to gamefowl,what is the importance.,how to maintain moisture?during pointing of a cock...how to obtain moisture? Thanks in advance..... :d



    good luck po dagdag lang...

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    Re: moisture

    Very informative galore.....

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