September 11th, 2003, 04:13 AM
All roads lead to... Boston RH ?!
The old saying had it "All roads lead to Rome." Looking at the performance of the modern gamecock I think the same thing can be said about Boston RH.
Starting with the most recent WSC 2003. Wasn't the he guy who won it (or co-shared the title) just started to get into cockfighting, and his birds were a cross between Boston RH and another strain?
Roger Robert's Hatchets won it in 2001 (also first appearance) and they were crosses between either Hatch & RH, or Chet & RH. Judging by their appearance (light red/orange, yellow legged), they certainly look like Boston RH.
Both the modern day YL Hatch & Sweater have been said to have Boston RH influence, some may even say heavy influence. Again, judging by their appearance and performance (we know pure Hatch doesn't really cut that well), it's not too far off. These are the birds that put Carol N., Bruce B., Nene A., Sonny L.... in the the "who-is-who" of the cocking world.
The most famous RH of them all: the Allen RH, which had the best winning record in the southern states, and which is the foundation of almost all modern RH, was a cross between a Boston RH cock and 5 Grist Grady hens, breeding to the RH side until 7/8 or 15/16 RH. Colonel Allen described his Boston RH brood cock as "... yellow leg, peacomb, light red, w/ white streamers in the wings and tail..." Doesn't that sound just like the modern day Sweater?
Which brings me to an old superstitious theory from Vietnam. Red is above white (gray), meaning when a red go up against a gray it will win MOST of the time; light red is above dark red; and whitetail (some streamers, not whole) is above blacktail. So perhaps the old guys' theory has some validity... And you just need to get some Boston RH blood in your yard if you haven't got it.
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September 14th, 2003, 06:50 AM
BRUNER ROUNDHEADS...They are the best Roundheads that I have ever had the pleasure of owning!!! I have a cock that is 1/2 Bruner Roundhead and 1/2 Sweater that won in the gaffs in less than 8 seconds!!! I have a pure Bruner Cock and a pure trio of Sweaters!!! I'm gonna breed the Bruner cock to one of the Sweater hens for battlefowl and the pure Sweater cock to the pure Sweater hen to keep this line going!!! I also have a pure Sweater stag out of the Sweater cock!!! I really like both of these breeds and boy they sure can get it!!! 2 of my favorites!!! That's for sure!!! GONZO!!!
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September 15th, 2003, 06:48 AM
Very interesting observation! i never found out the strains that made out the boston rh. Hope you could help.
September 15th, 2003, 11:21 PM
The Boston RH is probably descendant of some very early crosses between the Bankiva (straightcomb, long feathered, multiple-shuffled western fowls that roll all over the place when they get a bill hold on their opponents) and the Asil (peacomb, tight feathered, single-stroked Asian fowls that weave and dodge, then deliver their accurate shots). Roundhead is the term used to described peacomb in the old days. And you will notice many roundheads are tight feathered, although not as tight as Asil.
Early immigrants, most likely from England or Ireland, brought their RH to Boston. So they became known as Boston RH. I would guess. The Allen RH (7/8-15/16 Boston RH, 1/8-1/16 Grist Grady) were famously known for their side-stepping ability (Asil). They could also really turn on the fan (Bankiva). The best of both worlds.
As my user name suggests, most of my knowledge came from my reading. I only get to do some cocking when I visit Vietnam once a year (mostly hack fights with local chickens). I live in Michigan where the laws and the weather aren't friendly to gamefowls. However, my brother now has a 2-mo. old RH stag and a 2-mo. old Hatch pullet from the eggs that I brought back. Hopefully something good will come out of that.
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September 19th, 2003, 08:21 AM
Very enlightenng. Post some more like why does a lacy have white legs. Good reading new.
September 21st, 2003, 01:25 PM
I'll try to make it as short and detailed as possible.
Some said that the Boston RH is nothing more than the yellow-legged, peacomb Irish Brown Reds called “Hellers” that were imported into Boston in the mid or late 1800's. Others said that those “Hellers” were later crossed to the Claiborne (both yellow and white-legged) to make the Boston RH. The Grist Grady most likely threw all kinds of different leg colors since there were several bloods that went into them: Grist’s own strain called “Champions”, Red Quill, Claiborne, Shawlneck, Spanish & Irish Blues, and Thompson White. So it’s easy to see why the Allen RH came with yellow, white, and occasionally dark legs (although the dark legs were probably bred out later)… There is no such thing as 100% when it comes to gamefowls.
Lacy RH is basically pure Allen/Shelton RH (Burnell Shelton is Will Allen’s brother-in-law and cocking partner), so they come both yellow and white legs, just like the Allen RH. Over time, the Lacy RH became predominately white-legged because they were bred to the white-leg side. Perhaps Judge Lacy preferred white legs.
Judge Lacy started with a yellow-legged Allen RH hen that he purchased from Burnell Shelton. To this hen he bred a white-legged Charlie Hope RH cock (some said it was White Hackle influenced). Then he bred a white-legged Shelton RH cock to 5 hens from the 1st mating. Then he bred the hens from the 2nd mating to a brother of their father, another white-legged Shelton RH. Then he bred the hens from the 3rd mating to a white-legged Harvey RH cock to avoid too close inbreeding. Then he bred a few more outside Allen/Shelton RH cocks over his hens… Today most of the yellow legs have been bred out. According to Judge Lacy, his white-legged RH do not have as much of the cautious, side-stepping quality of the old original Allen/Shelton RH, but they are great bucklers, very sturdy, and the most desperately game cocks he had ever known. I still think the original Allen RH is better though, especially in the LK because the LK can easily end a fight, so the rooster needs to be smart to side step his opponent when necessary instead of trading blows.
Lacy RH may occasionally throw green legs when young, though later on they turn white, because of the Grist Grady hens (Red Quill influenced) that were used to make the Allen RH.
Judge Lacy also infused into his RH a small percentage of Brown Red from Fred Bair.
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September 22nd, 2003, 09:03 AM
.....keep it up, that's what we need here..
September 22nd, 2003, 08:28 PM
lance de la torre's boston roundhead... how bout that?
September 23rd, 2003, 04:43 PM
Allen's yellow legged Roundhead were acquired from Dr. Fred Saunders of Salem, Mass., he bred him to a Grist yellow legged Grady, raised four stags and seven pullets, bred the old cock back to his daughter each season, line breeding him until his off spring were only one-eight and one-sixteenth Grady and balance Roundheads. They nearly all came yellow legged and beaks, round heads, often white in wing and tail, bright reds and sometimes spangle. The old cock was a spangle.
September 25th, 2003, 01:35 PM
One famous Filipino Breeder by the name of Lance dela Torre has gottne famous through his redfoots, the Boston RH that traces his lines from Billy Abbot. Then when he bred for Sagupaan PA, they are the only Entry that I knew that won the World Slasher Derby in an unbeaten fashion, 8-0 sweep.
I believe that these Boston RH are still a power to contend with but I think lets go where the wind goes, the the wind goes to the SWEATERS.
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September 25th, 2003, 08:33 PM
Sweaters are descendants of the yellow-legged Hatch, which has Boston RH influence, some may even say HEAVY influence. That is the topic of this particular post: good modern gamefowls trace their roots back to the Boston RH.
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September 25th, 2003, 11:26 PM
I like RHs for thier performance and cutting ability.But is it true that they cannot travel? :hippie:
September 26th, 2003, 08:41 PM
Sorry maaococker, but I don't have any experience about RH travelling. I think there is another post on this topic in this forum. Try using the search function at the top of the page. Type in "roundhead travel" and you should be there.
September 29th, 2003, 01:49 PM
Is there really a pure Boston fowl...?
Keep on cocking..Peace to all..
September 30th, 2003, 10:29 AM
very informative...keeep it coming
Guys, do you have any idea regarding kelly green roundhead, what kind of rounhead is this, where it came from?
I've seen this one fight at WSD'03 using this line. its has excellent cutting,speed and power. he did not stop until his opponent is dead
Any local breeder in PI who has this line?
December 24th, 2005, 12:05 PM
What is the best cross for Boston Roundhead?
December 24th, 2005, 01:27 PM
Bostonrh X Lemon or vice versa ala-Lancey dela lines
December 24th, 2005, 03:30 PM
A good boston Roundhead like the ones we sell need no cross they are excellent and proven like is in lk, although if you must cross them, use good grey,won a six cock with boston rh greys, good cross,in lk, in america they use hatch for gaff is common, very few boston roundhead in america most are lacys, the boston rh they see in wscup video now thats the good boston rh.
and game as any hatch or grey.
see edmcclaskey gallery of pics at pitfowl.com for pic of my boston rh winner see for yourself, look familiar? in battle trim lk winner./fastest kill of derby...I am crossing my boston rh to my phantom/velcro hens, that is what i am bringing to pi to fight.
December 24th, 2005, 04:22 PM
boston rh cross...
we set a multi-winner grey to a boston rh hen. we got 4 stags: 2 greys and 2 reds. fought 1 grey and 1 red and both won.
December 26th, 2005, 08:08 AM
Re: boston Roundheads
have u tried crossing em to a Gilmre hatch?
December 26th, 2005, 09:03 AM
who are keeping this bloodline 'cause in the last wsd 2005 there were not many (crosses) that were shown
December 26th, 2005, 10:31 PM
Ask LANCEY DE LATORRE.
Happy New Year!
December 27th, 2005, 01:08 AM
Lancey Dela Torre Boston RH
I had proven this Lancey Dela Torre Boston RH and won against Roger Roberts and Jun Topacio both former World Slasher Cup Champs maybe just lucky that day.Cross with Lemon for better fighting style and more power.
December 27th, 2005, 02:43 AM
oscar aikens crossed his oldtime boston roundheads to a marsh
butcher...and made it a strain he called hawk...this line made him famous...
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December 28th, 2005, 02:17 PM
lancey Boston Roundhead x Sonny Lagoon Gilmore Hatch
March 2nd, 2006, 02:47 PM
March 13th, 2006, 11:33 AM
just need your help where to find a good Boston Roundhead...
March 13th, 2006, 11:41 AM
March 13th, 2006, 12:00 PM
Re: boston roundhead...
Boston Roundheads of Mr. Lancey De la Torre in Bacolod....
March 13th, 2006, 12:28 PM
how about in US? who breeds good Boston Roundhead..?