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Thread: Red & Black Japs

  
  1. #1
    Senior Member 5SAINTS's Avatar
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    Red & Black Japs

    What Bloodlines you would use to cross to a Jap hen for Philippines and Mexico? Or would you show a Straight Jap?

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    Moderator cnucum's Avatar
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    Re: Red & Black Japs

    Quote Originally Posted by 5SAINTS
    What Bloodlines you would use to cross to a Jap hen for Philippines and Mexico? Or would you show a Straight Jap?
    Mr. Jim Clem crosses his Black Japs to his Brownreds... I have a Japs hen from him and hopefully soon get his Brownred also... To what "I" see, his japs are good enough to show straight in LK...

    Maybe he'll drop by here to give us more info on them black japs...

    I am pairing the Black Jap hen to a Black Rampuri Asil cock to produce some serious oriental brood material...

    Chris
    Aseel d Past, Present & Future - M.Romulo

  3. #3
    Senior Member 5SAINTS's Avatar
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    Re: Red & Black Japs

    So far only brownreds was infused? Did anyone tried Greys, kelso, Roundheads, Or Sweaters?

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    Senior Member 5SAINTS's Avatar
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    Re: Red & Black Japs

    I seen red Japs and Black Japs ..Do they show different Styles of skill or they have the same style?

  5. #5
    Senior Member Camarines's Avatar
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    Re: Red & Black Japs

    Quote Originally Posted by 5SAINTS
    I seen red Japs and Black Japs ..Do they show different Styles of skill or they have the same style?
    If you are interested in Oriental Gamefowl, here's two addresses where you can buy the book from:

    Dr. Edsel Bixler
    Av. Mexico 99 - 202
    Col. Hipodromo Condesa
    C.P. 06170 Mexico, D. F.
    Mexico

    Mr. Joe Zannino
    263 S. Conkling St
    Baltimore, MD 21224

  6. #6
    Senior Member colt39's Avatar
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    Re: Red & Black Japs

    If I were you, I would not show them Pure.

    Cross them with fowl that have enough speed to go with the smart cutting style of the Orientals.

    The Black Japs are about the fastest of the Orientals that will cross well with most fowl.

    From what I have seen, I would cross the Orientals witth fast, aggressive, game fowl that can blow you out if they get into you. These type of fowl often get cut back & some smart fowl can time them but this is the type to start with when Grading, in my opinion.

    If you already have smart timeing fowl then there is no reason to ad Oriental to them. Often, you will stack too much smarts & timeing style to them & they seem to end up being too deffensive.

    With fast aggressive fowl, you can Grade them to where you want them. Sure, you may end up with a few that may carry too much aggression but that is why they call it Grading.

    You have to hit a fine line when Grading & they will not be 100% Aces but when you hit the right Nick, you will surley have fun.

  7. #7
    Senior Member 5SAINTS's Avatar
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    Re: Red & Black Japs

    Thanks Colt! I heard you have good Black Japs ,but any info on the reds?

  8. #8
    CyberFriends EAA Indians's Avatar
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    Re: Red & Black Japs

    5Saints, if you and those who really want to add another rare Jap line, I know the Colorado breeder who has Sam Gowdy Japs. This breeder info was provided by Sam Gowdy himself and so he is authentic.

    The problem is that the breeder could not ship (the Post Office does not accept Gamefowl shipments) because of the law in Colorado, and so it is a pick up issue only.

    I think we can make it worth while for us if we coordinate our efforts and acquire several birds at a time. Let us exchange info (and PM's).

    Good luck.........

  9. #9
    Senior Member colt39's Avatar
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    Re: Red & Black Japs

    Quote Originally Posted by EAA Indians
    5Saints, if you and those who really want to add another rare Jap line, I know the Colorado breeder who has Sam Gowdy Japs. This breeder info was provided by Sam Gowdy himself and so he is authentic.

    The problem is that the breeder could not ship (the Post Office does not accept Gamefowl shipments) because of the law in Colorado, and so it is a pick up issue only.

    I think we can make it worth while for us if we coordinate our efforts and acquire several birds at a time. Let us exchange info (and PM's).

    Good luck.........
    He does have the Gowdy Japs & lives close to Sam's place but not the only one that has the true Gowdy Japs.

    I have them & Sam told me that Mr. Shropshire on the East cost had them as well. I heard Shropshire has passed away also, so I don't know. Not sure on the spelling either.
    Last edited by colt39; November 12th, 2008 at 09:34 AM.

  10. #10
    CyberFriends EAA Indians's Avatar
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    Re: Red & Black Japs

    5Saints and those that have plans to acquire the Japs. I would try to acquire from Colt particularly the graded Japs because a good breeder like Colt had tried many crosses and grading, that the few Jap grades that he is letting go are most likely the proven lines. It saves a lot of time, expense and frustrations.

  11. #11
    Member totskito's Avatar
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    Re: Red & Black Japs

    Quote Originally Posted by colt39
    If I were you, I would not show them Pure.

    Cross them with fowl that have enough speed to go with the smart cutting style of the Orientals.

    The Black Japs are about the fastest of the Orientals that will cross well with most fowl.

    From what I have seen, I would cross the Orientals witth fast, aggressive, game fowl that can blow you out if they get into you. These type of fowl often get cut back & some smart fowl can time them but this is the type to start with when Grading, in my opinion.

    If you already have smart timeing fowl then there is no reason to ad Oriental to them. Often, you will stack too much smarts & timeing style to them & they seem to end up being too deffensive.

    With fast aggressive fowl, you can Grade them to where you want them. Sure, you may end up with a few that may carry too much aggression but that is why they call it Grading.

    You have to hit a fine line when Grading & they will not be 100% Aces but when you hit the right Nick, you will surley have fun.
    Hi Jim have you tried crossing a black jap & a brown red? if so, what's your verdict are they any good? I believe if it does suits your fight syle of course they are okay, but are they good enough for LK fights..just asking..if you don't mind..

    cheers..

  12. #12
    mannawray
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    Re: Red & Black Japs

    in japs where does the red come from? have a freind that said he was going to send me one. was just wondering if it is pure being red. thanx for any info.

  13. #13
    Senior Member colt39's Avatar
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    Re: Red & Black Japs

    Quote Originally Posted by totskito
    Hi Jim have you tried crossing a black jap & a brown red? if so, what's your verdict are they any good? I believe if it does suits your fight syle of course they are okay, but are they good enough for LK fights..just asking..if you don't mind..

    cheers..
    We always crossed them with Brownreds, Blacks & Hatch.

  14. #14
    Senior Member 5SAINTS's Avatar
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    Re: Red & Black Japs

    Quote Originally Posted by nem76
    whats up 5Sainsts how have you been?
    hEY WASSUP NEM76! I've been alright so far how you doing bro? Yeah I just got a Pair of Red Japs from my friend..He asked me If I wanted some of his Japs. I had a chioce to get the Black ones , but he was limited with the Blacks this year so I took the Reds...Just trying to find out what to cross them with...As all I know from them they Fly higher than the sweaters.. I might cross with Mcraes to get more game to them...So far no one sugest to cross red Japs to any other Reds..So just searching for more inputs....

  15. #15
    Senior Member hampaslupa's Avatar
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    Re: Red & Black Japs

    Quote Originally Posted by 5SAINTS
    hEY WASSUP NEM76! I've been alright so far how you doing bro? Yeah I just got a Pair of Red Japs from my friend..He asked me If I wanted some of his Japs. I had a chioce to get the Black ones , but he was limited with the Blacks this year so I took the Reds...Just trying to find out what to cross them with...As all I know from them they Fly higher than the sweaters.. I might cross with Mcraes to get more game to them...So far no one sugest to cross red Japs to any other Reds..So just searching for more inputs....
    would u share the pics of your red japs sir?

  16. #16
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    Re: Red & Black Japs

    Quote Originally Posted by 5SAINTS
    What Bloodlines you would use to cross to a Jap hen for Philippines and Mexico? Or would you show a Straight Jap?
    it all depends on what your needs and what you want to achieve for your game fowl...be it style, cut, livebability, or body conformation...you are a step closer if you start using the cock side...i used them to infused my winning line sweater that produces squirrel tailed...it
    works and improved this particular line but it took me longer because i have to take out all
    the asil blood before they stop lifting the downed opponent's head when finishing off...i like a cock that sit down and turn on the fan...

  17. #17
    Senior Member blackdeath's Avatar
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    Re: Red & Black Japs

    I was told by a friend of mine that got Japs from Gowdy about 25 years ago and up until the time when Sam had to get rid of his fowl that the red ones had faster recoil and are better in the SK, but that the blacks were more powerful and are better heel cocks.
    Just what he told me this year. He has both the blacks and reds and shows them in all weapons.

  18. #18
    Senior Member 5SAINTS's Avatar
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    Re: Red & Black Japs

    Quote Originally Posted by blackdeath
    I was told by a friend of mine that got Japs from Gowdy about 25 years ago and up until the time when Sam had to get rid of his fowl that the red ones had faster recoil and are better in the SK, but that the blacks were more powerful and are better heel cocks.
    Just what he told me this year. He has both the blacks and reds and shows them in all weapons.
    Did he show Pure? If he crossed the Red Japs what lines did he cross the red japs too?

  19. #19
    Senior Member 5SAINTS's Avatar
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    Re: Red & Black Japs

    Quote Originally Posted by hampaslupa
    would u share the pics of your red japs sir?
    I'll try to take some pictures tomarrow at the farm...They are Young! My friends black Jap Stags look more meaner than the reds....

  20. #20
    Member Ferdi's Avatar
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    Re: Red & Black Japs

    I believe that he shows them in all weapons when it was still legal.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackdeath
    I was told by a friend of mine that got Japs from Gowdy about 25 years ago and up until the time when Sam had to get rid of his fowl that the red ones had faster recoil and are better in the SK, but that the blacks were more powerful and are better heel cocks.
    Just what he told me this year. He has both the blacks and reds and shows them in all weapons.

  21. #21
    Senior Member blackdeath's Avatar
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    Re: Red & Black Japs

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferdi
    I believe that he shows them in all weapons when it was still legal.
    You are very correct and I should have stated that to be clear in my post. Thanks Ferdi

  22. #22
    Senior Member blackdeath's Avatar
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    Re: Red & Black Japs

    Quote Originally Posted by 5SAINTS
    Did he show Pure? If he crossed the Red Japs what lines did he cross the red japs too?
    Most were crossed on RHs, of course, that was back when it was legal to do so.

  23. #23
    Senior Member blackdeath's Avatar
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    Re: Red & Black Japs

    I should also say that the black Japs crossed to speed fowl could also be very good if you find the right nick on them. The speed fowl could be of any color you like. For those that have the black Japs.

  24. #24
    Senior Member colt39's Avatar
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    Re: Red & Black Japs

    The Red Gowdy Japs are not Japs at all but are Asils. Sam told me that they were the little Red Tojo's. We crossed them on Hatch back then & they all came small. Most around 4.6 to 4.8.

  25. #25
    Member Ferdi's Avatar
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    Re: Red & Black Japs

    Jim, that's a false statement and you know it. I get red throwbacks from my Black Jap pair (so did Sam and his friends) and they're NOT Tojos.



    Quote Originally Posted by colt39
    The Red Gowdy Japs are not Japs at all but are Asils. Sam told me that they were the little Red Tojo's. We crossed them on Hatch back then & they all came small. Most around 4.6 to 4.8.

  26. #26
    mannawray
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    Re: Red & Black Japs

    o.k. who is telling the truth here. i heard that the red japs are rare and that they are a little better than the blacks.

  27. #27
    Senior Member colt39's Avatar
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    Re: Red & Black Japs

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferdi
    Jim, that's a false statement and you know it. I get red throwbacks from my Black Jap pair (so did Sam and his friends) and they're NOT Tojos.

    Well Ferdi, That is what Sam told me about a year before he passed away. So. if he lied to me then so be it but if you are trying to say I am lieing then you don't know me.

    I asked him, did you?

    My Japs all come Black except the ones that I added the little red ones to but the Gowdy Black Japs that I have are all Black.

  28. #28
    mannawray
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    Re: Red & Black Japs

    sir jim that little red that you add to them what is it and do you still consider it to be jap. i have a friend that says he has a red jap but was wondering if it has some other blood than just jap. and have you sold any of that jap with a little bit of red in it.

  29. #29
    Senior Member colt39's Avatar
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    Re: Red & Black Japs

    One last thing.

    If you get red Throwbacks then that is a totally different thing than his Family of Red ones, that Sam said were actually Asil. They were 100% red. The Black ones are 5.10 birds & the Red ones are very small compaired to the Blacks. Totally different breed.

    I never asked him about the Blacks other than what they started with originally.

    He told me that the hen's in the original trio were pure Jap (Black) & the cock was not pure but they were black. He also said that you will find at-least one white feather on them, the (Blacks).

    Now, in my opinion, your Japs may have something elce in them besides what Sam started with or at-least what mine are, who knows but I would never pop up & say that you are lieing about your Japs being the Black Japs because you get Red & I don't. I don't know how they are bred. Sam may have made many different lines.

    All I am telling you is what Sam told me & I have no reason to lie so don't try & tell me that I am. You were not there my friend.

  30. #30
    Senior Member colt39's Avatar
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    Re: Red & Black Japs

    Quote Originally Posted by mannawray
    sir jim that little red that you add to them what is it and do you still consider it to be jap. i have a friend that says he has a red jap but was wondering if it has some other blood than just jap. and have you sold any of that jap with a little bit of red in it.
    I sold a few of the Japs that have the Red in them but are still Oriental.

    We played with them many different ways to see which we liked the best. Red, Black, Black with a little red infused in them.

    The problem with the Reds were they were small & the Blacks, were big but both very well liked. So, we tried a blend & the size came in where we wanted but like Ferdi's Japs, we got red as well as Blacks.

    I now, only have the Blacks after getting arrested, I cut back on fowl & sent quit a few to PI to be bred there.

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