November 3rd, 2004, 07:02 PM
the butcher cock
I'm doing some reseach before i start breeding and the name of this breed stands out ... May some one tell me from experience what are the positives and negatives of this breed? ..........
November 5th, 2004, 12:17 PM
using a butcher hen will pull down the station of the offspring, they will be medium station only
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November 5th, 2004, 12:45 PM
Butcher blood will add gameness,power,early maturing fowls and SUPERB CUTTING ABILITY although the station is a problem coz they come low to medium station only...
November 8th, 2004, 10:56 AM
called that for a reason!
(hint: cutting fowl!) duh...
November 8th, 2004, 12:16 PM
Phil Marsh (1869-1945) of Fort Plain, NY, creator of the Butcher bloodline, ran a meat market and named the Butchers after his profession.
Butchers come in red, white, spangled and black. They are 100% straight-combed and come mostly white-legged, with a few coming out with yellow legs. Butchers are aggressive, powerful hitters with good cutting ability.
Nelson Uy of Isabela has an excellent Butcher line. His Butcher crosses, especially the Butcher-Roundheads, are doing very well right now in big-time derbies. You may see them in last year's Bakbakan National 8-Stag Derby video, under the NU Redhawk entries.
November 8th, 2004, 01:25 PM
Nice decision, have a good Butcher as ur base bloodline and hope u have a winning line also as mine, i cross them in sweaters and albany and ray hoskins greys. GoodLuck!:hombre:
November 9th, 2004, 05:13 AM
How about Mr. Bill Roberts Butcher? Can they get the job done?
Once he told me, Mr. Nesmith used his banana legged butcher on the WSC.
November 9th, 2004, 05:39 AM
I just registered in the webpage but not really new in cockfigting. I am a Filipino based in California. Here are may thoughts.
Butchers always cross well fellow light fowls. Giving them a Roundhead strain may help the station- they'll come out balanced. Fighting style would be almost complete & would do well in long-knife as a cock. Kelso-Butcher's sound ancient but a good stationed Kelso (Johnny Jumper's perhaps) would help it shoot-up. You'll find a chicken that breaks well, hard-hitting and deadgame.
Oscar Akins (famed Bull Run farm) Butchers are what they use in bigtime fights in Manila. Boy Diaz President of the LGBA has this strain intact. His cross with Roundhead's (I think they are Lacy's) are his winningest birds.
Pardon my sharing I'm pretty new in your community but I hope this helps.
November 10th, 2004, 05:27 PM
I have not found a butcher that can withstand the gaff........yet to see a hit game butcher.
They can cut, are smart, but they are cold.cold.cold.cold. I honestly would not touch one -sorry folks but bad experiences stay with me for a long time. My opinion only, im sure game ones are out there but yet to come my way(I've chewed and spat more than 3 families). Save your money and find a good Kelso instead - they do the same job.
November 14th, 2004, 05:16 PM
Bill Roberts is never been a breeder but a businessman. Dropping names to advertise his birds. The Nesmiths never use his bloodlines. They don't have to. Be careful with this guy! His bloodlines are runners - what i heard. Never had a losing season coz he never fights.
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November 15th, 2004, 06:35 AM
JUST WANT TO ADD MORE TO WHAT yobetty has said !!!
when the zambo whites came out bill roberts also claimed that the original birds came from him but that is not true !!! I do believe that the man likes to name drop.
some years back when I visited Peter Uy He informed me that bill roberts claims are all not true... he has been to his farm in the states and one can't even consider it a farm.
November 15th, 2004, 03:53 PM
How are you?
A little story about Bill
When I was in the States 15 yrs ago Bill Roberts shipped me a pair of them Runners ehem Butchers, The cock was definitely a reject as he would have only weighed 1.6-1.7kg at most. When they arrived they were rested for a week. I sparred them against Billy Rubles hatch stag. After 10 evasive breaks by the Butcher the hatch finally caught him and shook him once, he pissed off, looking for highway flying over the neighbours fence. That was last time I saw Bill Robert's butcher. The boys had the hen for dinner that night.
Glenn/Nonny - if you read this please clean your pm as I cant reply to your messages - or email me instead-
November 16th, 2004, 01:29 AM
i have seen a number of butchers from a breeder up north fought in the short heel. they didn't run. they were all light red, white-legged, straight-comb. no white or spangled ones at all.
i have seen a few oscar akins butcher (a bit darker than the norm, white-legged too) and they didn't run too.
having said that, i have been to a derby where a friend had a butcher. it was hit in the head with a long knife, he was squawking for about 10 seconds before he died.
November 24th, 2004, 02:12 AM
Talking about Butcher, I aquired 1 hen from negros and I found out w/ her offspring cross to yellowlegged hatch are game and good cutting ability,but this time I'm breeding her with a roundhead cock to add more brain.
For those interested to have a good butcher w/ gameness.power you needed, I knew a breeder in Florida "Silver Dollar Farm"but not sure if not sold out yet,because I heard many pinoy's been calling for thier butchers(Excellent cross to Roundhead) or (3/4 roundhead to 1/4 butcher) for LK.
November 24th, 2004, 12:35 PM
In Fairness to Bill Roberts Butcher
I purchased a Trio of Bill Roberts Butcher (Sept 2003) and shipped it to the Phil. The BroodCock sparred well and because of his showing......good cutting ability and power we decided to give him a try in the Derby it was really a long hard fought battle but he owns the last two pecks....he survive though. He is now retired and earned the title BroodCock, his offspring will be tested next year and if one turns a runner tsk tsk tsk tsk I have BLULEGGED'S recipe.
April 9th, 2005, 03:50 AM
get the butchers direct from marsh butcher in new york. red pearl legged and medium station and you will definitely change your mind about their gameness and rugged fighting style.
April 9th, 2005, 06:18 AM
Bill Robert Butchers...
Three years ago I spoke to the man himself and asked him what is the make-up of his butchers. He told me the its a Marsh Butcher and a Speedy Grey crosses.
In fact in fairness to the man, this is one of my few bloodlines then, when I started my breeding business almost 6 years ago. At that time I used to crossed them with my "Democrats" and G.Wood Lacy Roundheads. The results are unbelievable..winning back to back in every stag derbies i used to join then.
Nowadays, i'm still using them as one of my base line in breeding to produce "battlecock" and still they can compete with the big boys.
Hope this can be of help to others who still have his (Bill Roberts)bloodlines.
April 9th, 2005, 06:42 AM
may come Black breasted reds and the odd spangle generaly white legs some did come yellow leged at the start... But acording to Mark Marsh.... never come black...
April 9th, 2005, 09:07 AM
The Butcher family that I've known for years now is very game and are extremely accurate cutters. They dont possess alot of power or size though because we have bred them so close for years. These are the most dependable fowl I've been around. Being too wet or too dry affects our Kelso's, Hatch, and Grey's. The Butcher's can stick a gaff no matter. No matter what breed you're looking for, someone has some junk for sale. Thats why ours haven't had any new blood added. Just cross them over some lacy roundheads to get a little size. Marsh Butchers are medium red, robin breasted, pearl legged, straight combed roosters. Some will moult out spangled or come spangled but most are red. I've never raised a white or a black. Red Richardson added some blood to his line and got an occasional yellow leg. Sam Caudle Sr. got some of this blood. They were good to him and have been good to Jr. I just don't know if they would be good to me.
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April 9th, 2005, 09:36 AM
i had not lost a fight with my medium station butchers...red straight comb and white legged...this is my base line.. once an 11 mos. old killed a 2 year old sweater line...my butchers breaks high and always on top..and shuffles on the ground..just that...it dont give much too many offsprings...just two or 3 males from the group...my butchers came from romero farm....
April 9th, 2005, 07:11 PM
everybody knows that boy jiao greys are force to reckon with.very aggressive roosters that cut deep with accuracy.
boy have his solid winning line of hatch-grey family that he is crossing to his solid butchers.the battlecross hatch-grey/butcher is his winningest line that are being fought with success in wsd araneta.
April 9th, 2005, 09:50 PM
legend by its name . .
yap, since i was small boy i'm already hearing about the
might of butchers. they are already a legend by its name.
hope locaL breeders have maintained as they were or
better yet improved further . . .
April 11th, 2005, 09:31 AM
Iv been successful to this breed, with the cross of Mel Simms Hatch, they are very intelligent cutters, power hitters, multiple shufflers, and very game. They came blackbreasted, straight comb, medium station, light to dark red. I never lose any of them so far.:teeth:
August 23rd, 2005, 08:40 AM
can you help me with this one,
saan the best e cross ang Butcher broodcock?
August 23rd, 2005, 11:12 AM
for me, butcher is best pure because that what ive
seen with my friend, they can fight any opponents
orientals or american.
This is only my opinion.
August 24th, 2005, 05:04 AM
i agree with moselina...my sam caudle butchers are better when
you fight them pure...
August 24th, 2005, 06:09 AM
actually 3/4 butcher and 1/4 roundhead yun! please help
August 24th, 2005, 07:42 AM
were also butchers...when you see them drag...you can expect a sentencia...70/30 % winnings in butchers....just crossed them to any high stattion..if you want them in a derby...
the best fight ive seen is a kelso vs. butcher fight..and the butcher emerges the winner...thats why i was impressed with them..and got a hold of their lines...
August 24th, 2005, 10:53 AM
to mr talisayon balaw,
pardon me pls, i have a question not related to the topic.
is there a "balaw" breeding in america?
thanks for the info & time.
August 24th, 2005, 11:07 AM
somebody here..offered me a balaw made in states...its quite expensive...their bloodlines came from DOM..irish..english ...when you crossbred bred them to red..they will show a balaw feathers...but what i saw in hoskins winners cock in sunset are grey balaws...
hope that helps...