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Thread: what injectable is better for conditioning?

  
  1. #61
    Senior Member rev-23's Avatar
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    Re: what injectable is better for conditioning?

    How much and how often and when do u stop giving the aminoplex in the keep?

  2. #62
    Senior Member killuah's Avatar
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    Re: what injectable is better for conditioning?

    Quote Originally Posted by rev-23 View Post
    How much and how often and when do u stop giving the aminoplex in the keep?

    SIR, gave aminoplex for three weeks...1/2cc for the first week, 1/4cc on the 2nd and 3rd week...ur last injection should be 1 week prior fight day...hope this help

  3. #63
    Senior Member rev-23's Avatar
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    Re: what injectable is better for conditioning?

    Yes it does help, but my nxt ? is do u give them the 1 shot a week or mulitiple shots weekly??? Thank u 4 ur help.

  4. #64
    Senior Member killuah's Avatar
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    Re: what injectable is better for conditioning?

    Quote Originally Posted by rev-23 View Post
    Yes it does help, but my nxt ? is do u give them the 1 shot a week or mulitiple shots weekly??? Thank u 4 ur help.

    1 shot a week is the proper way to administer it...

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    Re: what injectable is better for conditioning?

    try to use bio-enzyme with multiple probiotics and its a 100% sure that all vitamins will be absorbed completely and you can verify by rooster's manure, if no housefly on their manure then no vitamins/minerals were present in the manure means 100% absorbed.

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    Re: what injectable is better for conditioning?

    Vitamin -c ,,,,and u hav to use it with something else,,,

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    Re: what injectable is better for conditioning?

    Saan po makakabili ng weimmer?

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    Re: what injectable is better for conditioning?

    They are all the same and good. I use them with all my chicken as maintenance 1 or twice a month.

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    Re: what injectable is better for conditioning?

    any one use the black mamba from F B Mcquiness and what was the out come and doseage

  10. #70
    Senior Member Quapaw Kid's Avatar
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    Re: what injectable is better for conditioning?

    If they need vitamins , conditioning , worming or antibiotics in the keep .. They shouldn't be in the keep .

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  12. #71
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    Re: what injectable is better for conditioning?

    I give mine 3 drops of Geritol every other day. M,w,f. They need nothing else.

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  14. #72
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    Re: what injectable is better for conditioning?

    sir jojo tanong ko lang po pano po dosage ng catosal at kaylangan pa po ba ng BComplex? salamat po

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    Re: what injectable is better for conditioning?

    A good healthy cock or stag needs nothing. Most that are shooting their birds do more harm than good. Learn to point naturally. Nothing can beet that.

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  17. #74
    Senior Member Skincarver's Avatar
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    Re: what injectable is better for conditioning?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quapaw Kid View Post
    If they need vitamins , conditioning , worming or antibiotics in the keep .. They shouldn't be in the keep .
    Sure they need to be in top health going into the keep but if you aren't going ot give them more things than you do on the yard to help recuperate from the extra hard work then whats the point of a keep in the first place. Just leave them on cords and point them out . I get what youre saying for sure but.Extra work requires extra vitamins . Especially when cutting feed ! Your asking a lot of the rooster by working him harder and feeding him less. Like any athlete they need supplements. It makes sure theyre getting everything they need except the extra calories cmon man. Thought you were sharper than that.
    Football Players,Boxers,etc etc , most all in great physical condition but start cutting rations ad more work , fights or games and feed them less and see how much they win. Its mentally and physically draining. But theyre your birds if you think they don't need nothing they don't need it .

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  19. #75
    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: what injectable is better for conditioning?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skincarver View Post
    Sure they need to be in top health going into the keep but if you aren't going ot give them more things than you do on the yard to help recuperate from the extra hard work then whats the point of a keep in the first place. Just leave them on cords and point them out . I get what youre saying for sure but.Extra work requires extra vitamins . Especially when cutting feed ! Your asking a lot of the rooster by working him harder and feeding him less. Like any athlete they need supplements. It makes sure theyre getting everything they need except the extra calories cmon man. Thought you were sharper than that.
    Football Players,Boxers,etc etc , most all in great physical condition but start cutting rations ad more work , fights or games and feed them less and see how much they win. Its mentally and physically draining. But theyre your birds if you think they don't need nothing they don't need it .
    Well, to each there own. I dont give anything new 3 weeks out. They always get goodies every week. I did try B complex. I didnt think it did much. Maybe speed them up but that can be a bad thing too.

  20. #76
    Senior Member Skincarver's Avatar
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    Re: what injectable is better for conditioning?

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    Well, to each there own. I dont give anything new 3 weeks out. They always get goodies every week. I did try B complex. I didnt think it did much. Maybe speed them up but that can be a bad thing too.
    Yeah I guess so. So you don't increase protein or do anything extra for them through the keep than you do everyday? Id have to say you would be one of few .But if that works for you. I did say in my post that anyone that didn't give any extra supplementation when cutting feed and adding more work would be better off feeding off tie cords and pointing them .Isnt that what you do ?

  21. #77
    Senior Member Skincarver's Avatar
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    Re: what injectable is better for conditioning?

    For the record I never cared much for the BComplex either. I liked B12 best of the two but theirs a lot better stuff than either. I liked creatine pretty well. Never tried amino plex but logic suggest since they help to break down and utilize protein it wouldn't be a bad thing to try. In a place where anabolics were legal I would recommend them over anything in a bottle.

  22. #78
    Senior Member Quapaw Kid's Avatar
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    Re: what injectable is better for conditioning?

    If they NEED vitamins , antibiotics or anything like that coming into the keep .... they don't belong in the keep yet . If they don't NEED something , it's not helping them .. just putting more load on their body and being **** out . You gotta do the homework and match your feed , routine and such with your philosophy of keep.

    Fowl don't react to work like humans ... going there is the worst thing you can do to get your head into conditioning fowl . You can see horses , pitbulls and humans react to working out and vitamins ... fowl just don't . On top of that ... most everyone and every keep shows fowl going down ... they scratch em' down , bring down their weight ... but at the same time are trying to feed and supplement up ?

    If you are doing all that ... then how do you get them sharp the last week or few days ? They already have plateau'd to the feed and supplements ... nothing you give them do their bodies NEED and really drink in . So it's the same scenario of might as well jerk them off the cords as far as where they'd be mentally .

    Think of chickens like you are conditioning .... a chicken ! Not Tyson or whoever . Their lungs exchange air on inhale and exhale ... they don't gain capacity ever . Their breast is white meat and no comparison can be made to that in the human excercise world ... their red meat is more twitch muscle than ours . And every strain's power comes way more from tendon/muscle/bone mechanics than it ever does from pure muscle ...

    Most folks show fowl way too soon ... you can find more than just the odd example of someone putting fowl in a keep and they don't do well .. but two weeks on cords and are jerked up and win ... I see it plenty

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  24. #79
    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: what injectable is better for conditioning?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skincarver View Post
    Yeah I guess so. So you don't increase protein or do anything extra for them through the keep than you do everyday? Id have to say you would be one of few .But if that works for you. I did say in my post that anyone that didn't give any extra supplementation when cutting feed and adding more work would be better off feeding off tie cords and pointing them .Isnt that what you do ?
    No tie cords. I use to be into personal performance myself. I took creatine. Waste of money. Most human performance drugs are meant for endurance situations. Im not big on that with steel. Maybe them asil long events.

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  26. #80
    Senior Member KevinG's Avatar
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    Re: what injectable is better for conditioning?

    Many good posts but one thing is for sure, my bird at the end of the keep was in far better shape than he was off the cord, that's for sure. Not that he was bad off the cord but at the end of the keep he could put it on and keep it on for as long as he had to in deliberate fashion. Something gave at the end of the board work, whatever it was it gave them a hell of alot more stamina and strength. I could never stand to see a bird flopping his legs hopelessly after 3 to 5 minutes, pussy footing around because he couldn't lift them up and the G sticks already had him in discomfort lol. Other handler yelling at him and calling him all sorts of names . Yea, in some places you had to be ready to go for a while in the G if not you became a bullseye, simple as that. If you went into it thinking you'd come out fast and ya didn't, you were pretty much in trouble. Birds may not be or take to things like human beings do BUT you can definitely see an open beak at the beginning of the bench to a closed beak after alot more work at the end so something improved and enhanced, no question about it. Those legs moved alot better also lol. A bird could also shake off shots alot easier if thoroughly conditioned. German grade Creatine is a good product respectively, if you lift heavy and do intense workouts with weights you can tell the difference. Thing about Creatine is it needs to be cycled, you dont take it everyday or continuously for months on end because all it will do is over saturate the muscle with fluid retention. Blues Aminoplex the purple like pills were awesome, worked very well. It's all about building oxygen in the blood.
    SF
    Last edited by KevinG; October 10th, 2019 at 01:39 AM.

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  28. #81
    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: what injectable is better for conditioning?

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinG View Post
    Many good posts but one thing is for sure, my bird at the end of the keep was in far better shape than he was off the cord, that's for sure. Not that he was bad off the cord but at the end of the keep he could put it on and keep it on for as long as he had to in deliberate fashion. Something gave at the end of the board work, whatever it was it gave them a hell of alot more stamina and strength. I could never stand to see a bird flopping his legs hopelessly after 3 to 5 minutes, pussy footing around because he couldn't lift them up and the G sticks already had him in discomfort lol. Other handler yelling at him and calling him all sorts of names . Yea, in some places you had to be ready to go for a while in the G if not you became a bullseye, simple as that. If you went into it thinking you'd come out fast and ya didn't, you were pretty much in trouble. Birds may not be or take to things like human beings do BUT you can definitely see an open beak at the beginning of the bench to a closed beak after alot more work at the end so something improved and enhanced, no question about it. Those legs moved alot better also lol. A bird could also shake off shots alot easier if thoroughly conditioned. German grade Creatine is a good product respectively, if you lift heavy and do intense workouts with weights you can tell the difference. Thing about Creatine is it needs to be cycled, you dont take it everyday or continuously for months on end because all it will do is over saturate the muscle with fluid retention. Blues Aminoplex the purple like pills were awesome, worked very well. It's all about building oxygen in the blood.
    SF

    Creatine basically adds water weight. It hydrates muscle. Makes u look more pumped up. In that sense. It works. I was always running, biking & boxing. It never enhanced endurance. Power maybe but with steel in hand. Im just not a huge believer in power. Accuracy is far more important.
    I also took CLA, testosterone precursors and many others. Nothing Id advice to a young man. I did SEE for myself friends using steroids. It does work but once again, being stronger with steel isnt my way.
    Remember those Carr Lacys? Mine were skinny little roosters. Not anyones idea of what power should look or feel like. “They Hubbed every lick”. Thats not power. Its 2 things. Timing with proper stroke.

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  30. #82
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    Re: what injectable is better for conditioning?

    When we first heard of creating my dad bought some and tried it. We lost every fight. They would get hit and wilt. Last and only time. Some may say we didn't do it correctly. We thew it in the trash. That was the correct thing.

  31. #83
    Senior Member KevinG's Avatar
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    Re: what injectable is better for conditioning?

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    Creatine basically adds water weight. It hydrates muscle. Makes u look more pumped up. In that sense. It works. I was always running, biking & boxing. It never enhanced endurance. Power maybe but with steel in hand. Im just not a huge believer in power. Accuracy is far more important.
    I also took CLA, testosterone precursors and many others. Nothing Id advice to a young man. I did SEE for myself friends using steroids. It does work but once again, being stronger with steel isnt my way.
    Remember those Carr Lacys? Mine were skinny little roosters. Not anyones idea of what power should look or feel like. “They Hubbed every lick”. Thats not power. Its 2 things. Timing with proper stroke.
    The Carr Lacys were special for sure lol. Yea no it wont increase endurance but 315 feels alot lighter from my experience when you use it. I used to buy my own capsules and load em myself with creatine and dextrose. Id cut em out 6 days prior. Of crs that was with about 75 runs and some sets of squats also on the bench, it seemed to help them get through the routine ya know what I mean. It helped recover and get through the movements that required alot of energy, resistance type movements. I think it helped em stay loose (hydration in muscle) and not get all wound up, tight, and sore. I used a swing fly pen for 4 weeks then they went to a fixed pole fly pen for 4 weeks. Last 4 was 1 week pre keep, 3 weeks of keep. It was a bitch, on me too! . BUT i knew if they didnt touch my heart literally or something like that, Id be there all day if need be.
    SF
    Last edited by KevinG; October 10th, 2019 at 06:36 AM.

  32. #84
    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: what injectable is better for conditioning?

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinG View Post
    The Carr Lacys were special for sure lol. Yea no it wont increase endurance but 315 feels alot lighter from my experience when you use it. I used to buy my own capsules and load em myself with creatine and dextrose. Id cut em out 6 days prior. Of crs that was with about 75 runs and some sets of squats also on the bench, it seemed to help them get through the routine ya know what I mean.
    SF
    i believe it could enhance strength. It was just never my focus at the time. This was 30 years ago so my memory aint so good LOL.
    My only concern with it is adding weight. Think of it this way. Imagine a boxer who fights at 147 & is successful. He uses creatine and now he cant make weight so he fights instead at 154 or 160. Men in those weight classes are NATURALLY BIGGER. There not over muscled 147 pounders. When it comes to birds you must always be conscious of of there SIZE &WEIGHT. Its a HUGE deal but most dont understand why. When I boxed I could make 126. Im 5’9. Thats HUGE for my structure. Id hit guys my size and throw them around. I always worried about hurting people so id get in there with men 150-180. They felt more my size But boy did I FEEL the difference. Jabs hurt.

  33. #85
    Senior Member KevinG's Avatar
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    Re: what injectable is better for conditioning?

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    i believe it could enhance strength. It was just never my focus at the time. This was 30 years ago so my memory aint so good LOL.
    My only concern with it is adding weight. Think of it this way. Imagine a boxer who fights at 147 & is successful. He uses creatine and now he cant make weight so he fights instead at 154 or 160. Men in those weight classes are NATURALLY BIGGER. There not over muscled 147 pounders. When it comes to birds you must always be conscious of of there SIZE &WEIGHT. Its a HUGE deal but most dont understand why. When I boxed I could make 126. Im 5’9. Thats HUGE for my structure. Id hit guys my size and throw them around. I always worried about hurting people so id get in there with men 150-180. They felt more my size But boy did I FEEL the difference. Jabs hurt.
    Yea no you wanna keep the advantage of length in a smaller weight div, Spence style I hear you. I think Hearns did that to the max Lol. Boxing is getting you as light as possible but maintaining your pop and endurance. I just lost nearly 50 pounds from May to Sept, but I am stronger now at 190 than at 238. Its a conditioned muscle now, not one of feeding birds and drinking beer all the time lol. I miss it, will crack one open soon, been 6 months and Im dying here . Waiting on it cool down, fire up the pit and throw some down.
    SF
    Last edited by KevinG; October 10th, 2019 at 06:49 AM.

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  35. #86
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    Re: what injectable is better for conditioning?

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinG View Post
    Yea no you wanna keep the advantage of length in a smaller weight div, Spence style I hear you. I think Hearns did that to the max Lol. Boxing is getting you as light as possible but maintaining your pop and endurance. I just lost nearly 50 pounds from May to Sept, but I am stronger now at 190 than at 238. Its a conditioned muscle now, not one of feeding birds and drinking beer all the time lol. I miss it, will crack one open soon, been 6 months and Im dying here . Waiting on it cool down, fire up the pit and throw some down.
    SF
    You got incredible will power. Give me half LOL

  36. #87
    Senior Member Skincarver's Avatar
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    Re: what injectable is better for conditioning?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quapaw Kid View Post
    If they NEED vitamins , antibiotics or anything like that coming into the keep .... they don't belong in the keep yet . If they don't NEED something , it's not helping them .. just putting more load on their body and being **** out . You gotta do the homework and match your feed , routine and such with your philosophy of keep.

    Fowl don't react to work like humans ... going there is the worst thing you can do to get your head into conditioning fowl . You can see horses , pitbulls and humans react to working out and vitamins ... fowl just don't . On top of that ... most everyone and every keep shows fowl going down ... they scratch em' down , bring down their weight ... but at the same time are trying to feed and supplement up ?

    If you are doing all that ... then how do you get them sharp the last week or few days ? They already have plateau'd to the feed and supplements ... nothing you give them do their bodies NEED and really drink in . So it's the same scenario of might as well jerk them off the cords as far as where they'd be mentally .

    Think of chickens like you are conditioning .... a chicken ! Not Tyson or whoever . Their lungs exchange air on inhale and exhale ... they don't gain capacity ever . Their breast is white meat and no comparison can be made to that in the human excercise world ... their red meat is more twitch muscle than ours . And every strain's power comes way more from tendon/muscle/bone mechanics than it ever does from pure muscle ...

    Most folks show fowl way too soon ... you can find more than just the odd example of someone putting fowl in a keep and they don't do well .. but two weeks on cords and are jerked up and win ... I see it plenty
    If they need antibiotics they damn sure don't need to be in a keep. I agree there and with anything less than perfect health I would alos agree. But here is the thing.A rooster on cord no matter how healthy is not in the physical condition that a cock that's been worked is going to be in. To do that work more vitamins or supplements at least more protein help with recovery quicker. In simple terms a rooster in keep if you hand work them is spending more energy than a rooster on cord or in a cage . It helps to have something to keep nutrition in a surplus when cutting feed. That's exactly what and how supplements like amino acids or a higher protein quality feed helps do.
    Of course fowl aren't humans or horses or dogs or cats. But no matter how you slice it anything with muscle, tendon and bone can strengthen through resistance training. That's why if you have speed fowl and working them like power fowl then you could possibly be doing more harm than good. I agree the genetic design of an animal plays a huge role in performance . With muscle arrangement and types of muscle in different areas of the body is what makes a cheetah different from a lion . A cheetah will never be a lion or vise versa but both could be made to increase in areas of the other specialty. It all boils down to simple simon bull ****. Know your fowl and give them what they need .

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  38. #88
    Senior Member Skincarver's Avatar
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    Re: what injectable is better for conditioning?

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    No tie cords. I use to be into personal performance myself. I took creatine. Waste of money. Most human performance drugs are meant for endurance situations. Im not big on that with steel. Maybe them asil long events.
    I agree some creatine is a waste of money . You cant give or use it without a catalyst . Pure creatine alone is **** . I gain one time 12 pounds in 2 weeks and lost bodyfat on Cell Tech . Sure some of it was water . But it was because creatine needs sugar or insulin to get picked up and work. I never gave it to my fowl through the whole keep just through the heavy work. By the time I got ready to point them and moisture regulated I never had a problem with it.
    Do you need it or have to have it ? NO . But I think it helps through the conditioning phase.
    As for steroids some are way better than others for doing different things . Some are designed for lean mass and sprinters while others are just to straight up get big and strong and gain mass of any kind including water weight . Myself I like seeing fowl that look mismatched where one grabs another and practically flies off with him beating him like a drum the whole way but that's just me.LMAO

  39. #89
    Senior Member Quapaw Kid's Avatar
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    Re: what injectable is better for conditioning?

    I've always hand worked .. I raised , fed , worked , heeled and handled my own stags when I was 12 ... I wouldn't show without worki g them

    But here's the trick , real endurance and power comes from organs , glands and such getting stronger and producing their own power ... That's why hard times make hard men . If you are feeding the extras while working them they won't get stronger ... It's how everything in the world becomes a badass

    If food is providing energy off the top ... Their body won't learn to and this will also make them harder to point and not stay sharp as long
    Last edited by Quapaw Kid; October 10th, 2019 at 07:36 AM.

  40. #90
    Senior Member Skincarver's Avatar
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    Re: what injectable is better for conditioning?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaBlue View Post
    When we first heard of creating my dad bought some and tried it. We lost every fight. They would get hit and wilt. Last and only time. Some may say we didn't do it correctly. We thew it in the trash. That was the correct thing.
    Ill honestly say I wouldn't run out and buy any but I used it many times cause I already had it and worked well for me the way I used it. Like KevinG said there are differences in the quality of it. It will make them hold water as well if you use it right up to the last. But stopped in time the muscles soak up all the excess moisture and they level out. Its just like anything else it takes a few times to figure it out and throwing it out was probably the best thing for you guys. No sense wasting good fowl right . I tried the real deal 9 once and had disastrous results . Like you I never used it again. Not to say that some folks don't do great with it though.

    A good simple keep and sound logic with a good quality feed goes a long way. Give them a little higher protein feed that's easy digested and watch their droppings is one of the biggest most important thing a man can do really IMO .

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