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Thread: What is the makeup of the Law grey??

  
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    Member muscledean's Avatar
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    What is the makeup of the Law grey??

    What is the makeup and style of these greys?what comb type,leg color etc. are they suppose to come???

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    Member westpointe's Avatar
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    Re: What is the makeup of the Law grey??

    Quote Originally Posted by muscledean
    What is the makeup and style of these greys?what comb type,leg c olor etc. are they suppose to come???
    straight comb! yellow legged!!!deepgame

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    Dwip
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    Re: What is the makeup of the Law grey??

    Quote Originally Posted by muscledean
    What is the makeup and style of these greys?what comb type,leg color etc. are they suppose to come???
    I remember reading that they are mainly a cross between regular grey and claret.

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    Senior Member Mike Everett's Avatar
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    Re: What is the makeup of the Law grey??

    Law greys were made up of Madigin Greys, Albany, and McNerney Greys. The dark legged Law Dark Grey family had some dark blood either Law Brownred or Texas Ranger.

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    Member delano77's Avatar
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    Re: What is the makeup of the Law grey??

    Foundation: Madigan Red Claret cock over Regular Grey hens. Essentially a Madigan Grey Claret. Silver Duckwing, yellow legs, white ok, straight comb.
    And remember, according to Madigan Grey blood was actually 1/2 the foundation of the Red Clarets.

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    Senior Member Mike Everett's Avatar
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    Re: What is the makeup of the Law grey??

    Quote Originally Posted by delano77
    Foundation: Madigan Red Claret cock over Regular Grey hens. Essentially a Madigan Grey Claret. Silver Duckwing, yellow legs, white ok, straight comb.
    And remember, according to Madigan Grey blood was actually 1/2 the foundation of the Red Clarets.
    I don't know about that.. If you breed a red cock to grey hens you're going to get grey stags and red pullets. The original clarets did have grey blood supposedly in them on the cock's side but he wasn't grey. The original Clarets were red, Madigin's Grey blood came from Hanky Dean. I've read what Law in his own words put into the Madigins he got and it was Albany and McNerney Grey. The "Chocolates" were out of a brown Claret hen called the Chocolate Hen whose brother was white and bred to a Madigin's Regular Grey cock.

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    Member delano77's Avatar
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    Re: What is the makeup of the Law grey??

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Everett
    I don't know about that.. If you breed a red cock to grey hens you're going to get grey stags and red pullets. The original clarets did have grey blood supposedly in them on the cock's side but he wasn't grey. The original Clarets were red, Madigin's Grey blood came from Hanky Dean. I've read what Law in his own words put into the Madigins he got and it was Albany and McNerney Grey. The "Chocolates" were out of a brown Claret hen called the Chocolate Hen whose brother was white and bred to a Madigin's Regular Grey cock.
    Mike, I concur with everything you stated to include the later crosses that Law made into these Greys. As to my contention that the foundation is a red Madigan Claret over Madigan Regular Grey hens, the majority of my references are not immediately available. However, I can quote from a letter written by the late Harry Parr, " Madigan supplied Law with practically all the good fowl Law had. His Law Greys were nothing more than Claret cocks over Regular Grey hens. "

    Yes a red cock bred to grey hens produces 100% grey stags and 100% red pullets. And breeding one of these Grey stags(1/2 red 1/2 grey) back to pure Grey hens what color will you get?

    It probably doesn't really matter who was over or under who. Madigan's statements as to the breeding of his Clarets is certainly suspect in its self.
    Nevertheless, the bottom line is if you have real Law Greys you can be assured you are heavy in Madigan's blood.

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    Senior Member super fly's Avatar
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    Wink Re: What is the makeup of the Law grey??

    Quote Originally Posted by delano77
    Mike, I concur with everything you stated to include the later crosses that Law made into these Greys. As to my contention that the foundation is a red Madigan Claret over Madigan Regular Grey hens, the majority of my references are not immediately available. However, I can quote from a letter written by the late Harry Parr, " Madigan supplied Law with practically all the good fowl Law had. His Law Greys were nothing more than Claret cocks over Regular Grey hens. "

    Yes a red cock bred to grey hens produces 100% grey stags and 100% red pullets. And breeding one of these Grey stags(1/2 red 1/2 grey) back to pure Grey hens what color will you get?

    It probably doesn't really matter who was over or under who. Madigan's statements as to the breeding of his Clarets is certainly suspect in its self.
    Nevertheless, the bottom line is if you have real Law Greys you can be assured you are heavy in Madigan's blood.
    I was told that the real Law Greys have more Madigin Red Claret blood than most Madigin Red Clarets we see today....

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    Senior Member Mike Everett's Avatar
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    Re: What is the makeup of the Law grey??

    Law sold alot of fowl and he wanted them to be Grey. Why waste time breeding back to grey hens to get there. I've read Harry Parr statements also. I believe that he was talking about the "Chocolates" and the breeding is reverse of what you have stated. Yes... E.W. Laws contained Madigin greys lines, and the Laws could have contained Claret blood, The Clarets did contain Grey and Mansel Pyle blood, but not half grey. I believe Law used the white legged Madigin silver greys, Hanky Dean supplied, not the greenlegged greys that Madigin called his Old Regular Greys later shortened to Regular Greys... but he might have. The Perfections Greys where Claret and Grey, also out of a green legged Grey cock " the Pefection Cock" and red Claret hens. The Law Greys as made by Law contained OConnell Abany and McNerney Greys both yellow legged, this is where the yellow legged greys that commonly called Law Greys came from. Hugh Norman had some of the dark Law Greys and they where a different family from the yellow legged ones. But as I wasn't there you may be totally right.
    Last edited by Mike Everett; October 23rd, 2009 at 09:00 AM.

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    Re: What is the makeup of the Law grey??

    Any more info on the law greys. Who has good law greys?

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    Re: What is the makeup of the Law grey??

    Just want learn more about this blood

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    Re: What is the makeup of the Law grey??

    Thanks for the info, appreciate a lot

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    Re: What is the makeup of the Law grey??

    Mike Everett "quote" But as I wasn't there you may be totally right. "Unquote" . heh,,, yer a good man,Mike !

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    Re: What is the makeup of the Law grey??

    Quote Originally Posted by westpointe View Post
    straight comb! yellow legged!!!deepgame
    Yes, that's my experience with Mr. Wayne Brown's law greys! My only problem is they get in trouble when they get too aggressive. They win but "giba din", meaning badly 'dam..ed'. If you can get hold of the MAN, he will tell you the story of his law greys.

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    Re: What is the makeup of the Law grey??

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Everett View Post
    Law sold alot of fowl and he wanted them to be Grey. Why waste time breeding back to grey hens to get there. I've read Harry Parr statements also. I believe that he was talking about the "Chocolates" and the breeding is reverse of what you have stated. Yes... E.W. Laws contained Madigin greys lines, and the Laws could have contained Claret blood, The Clarets did contain Grey and Mansel Pyle blood, but not half grey. I believe Law used the white legged Madigin silver greys, Hanky Dean supplied, not the greenlegged greys that Madigin called his Old Regular Greys later shortened to Regular Greys... but he might have. The Perfections Greys where Claret and Grey, also out of a green legged Grey cock " the Pefection Cock" and red Claret hens. The Law Greys as made by Law contained OConnell Abany and McNerney Greys both yellow legged, this is where the yellow legged greys that commonly called Law Greys came from. Hugh Norman had some of the dark Law Greys and they where a different family from the yellow legged ones. But as I wasn't there you may be totally right.
    According to Hugh Norman, when he got his dark Laws from E.W. Law, they were 1/2 of the y/l st/c Madigan Grey and 1/2 Sid Taylor. I'm not disputing that the first ones bred by Law had Ranger blood in them but the later ones did not. Mr. Law fought a lot of BR cocks and got them from Hub Spencer from Lexington, Ky. This was where the Sids were bred and where J.D. Gay placed the Log Cabin Sid yard. Spencer got his Blood from J.D. Gay. Mr. Law contraced with Spencer to buy all Hub Spencer's Sid cocks every year. Mr. Spencer livd to be 104 yrs. old and died in a nursing home in Lexington, Ky sometime around 1980. Hugh's dark Laws came 2 ways. One side the cocks looked like a light black-grey cross which was yellow gray with black streaks in hackles and yellowblack legs ad red eyes. Other cocks were black?greys and speckled breasted. Some of these cocks were greybreasted with grey specks- Hugh sometimes referred to these as guineabreasted greys. The hens came 8 out 10 black as crow. A few had grey on their neck hackles. The other 2 of 10 came like typical light Madigan Gray. This family always comes both ways. I kept these fowl 20+ yrs. They were game and extremely good cutters.

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    Member lawgreyman14's Avatar
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    Re: What is the makeup of the Law grey??

    Here is a little wright up on them that I found...

    Around 1935-1936, Law started calling his Greys Law greys. Prior to that he called then Canadian greys in published club reports. This was his way of referencing they were Hanky Dean greys being bred in Canada for Col. John Madigan. They came yellow and white legged. All were straight combed. They were the exact same blood as the Red Madigin Clarets. When he started calling them Law Greys he had infused O'Connel Albany(hen side) under a Madigan Grey cock. The yellow leg becoming more common with a white leg still expected. A later infusion of McNerney Greys solidified the predominance of yellow legs over the white. Law crossed these on a lot of his other good fowl and advertised and sold a lot of fowl. A successful cross was the Law greys to Madigan's Texas Ranger's. These came dark legged. Therefore, if you have dark legged Law Greys and the trait is due to Law's breeding and not some other breeder afterward, then I would guess it is Ranger blood.

    From my research, during the era of the Lawridge Plantation never was there a pea comb Law Grey shown. However, there is evidence that some Boston Roundhead was bred into some matings.
    (Sources Ultimate Fowl Wikipedia/ Sabong net.ph
    )

    \

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    Senior Member LoneWolf's Avatar
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    Re: What is the makeup of the Law grey??

    Want a good laugh?This is the kind of thing that gives Oakridge a bad name.....http://www.oakridgegamefarm.net/auct...uction_details

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    Senior Member BamaOkie's Avatar
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    Re: What is the makeup of the Law grey??

    Quote Originally Posted by RHman1026 View Post
    According to Hugh Norman, when he got his dark Laws from E.W. Law, they were 1/2 of the y/l st/c Madigan Grey and 1/2 Sid Taylor. I'm not disputing that the first ones bred by Law had Ranger blood in them but the later ones did not. Mr. Law fought a lot of BR cocks and got them from Hub Spencer from Lexington, Ky. This was where the Sids were bred and where J.D. Gay placed the Log Cabin Sid yard. Spencer got his Blood from J.D. Gay. Mr. Law contraced with Spencer to buy all Hub Spencer's Sid cocks every year. Mr. Spencer livd to be 104 yrs. old and died in a nursing home in Lexington, Ky sometime around 1980. Hugh's dark Laws came 2 ways. One side the cocks looked like a light black-grey cross which was yellow gray with black streaks in hackles and yellowblack legs ad red eyes. Other cocks were black?greys and speckled breasted. Some of these cocks were greybreasted with grey specks- Hugh sometimes referred to these as guineabreasted greys. The hens came 8 out 10 black as crow. A few had grey on their neck hackles. The other 2 of 10 came like typical light Madigan Gray. This family always comes both ways. I kept these fowl 20+ yrs. They were game and extremely good cutters.
    Here is one for the Hugh Norman fans~Max Thagard told me that Hugh Norman is the ONLY person that ever bought one of the Original Viberator cocks. The Viberators where a smutty looking dark grey.

    My Laws come from Sam Yurk. He got them from Law in 1944-46 there abouts after he got out of Navy during WW2. Mine look alot more like the McNeary greys I see in old pictures. The Cleveland Law greys look more Claret like to me. Difference I assume of when you purchased them from EW Law. I will say mine are very aggressive straight forward in your face cutting fools. Mine are 100% YL SC. When I got these greys I realized I finally had a family fowl took a back seat to NOTHING
    old pictures 112.jpg

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    Re: What is the makeup of the Law grey??

    Not disputing anything said about the yellow leg Laws. But he definitely bred the darkleg darkeyed greys also. And they were Sid crosses. Also when Max and Jake Engle came to Al. to work for Harry Charles he brought the Vibarators with him. All cocks no hens. Harry had no pens for all the extra cocks so all the workers, Max, Jake, Hugh, Hobb and Pervin Doss, had cocks under tomato and lettuce boxes and some hanging on fence posts in tow sacks until the pens could be built. When the cocks came 2 yrs. old there were only 11 of the Vibarators left. These cocks won 2 major tournaments if I remember correctly.

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    Senior Member BamaOkie's Avatar
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    Re: What is the makeup of the Law grey??

    Max did not work for no one that I know of. He did say Harry Charles backed $$ him a few times.

    This is a thread about Law greys though. Mr Law did pass on some might fine fowl. Law breed and campaigned Brownreds for years before he every had the greys. Today is the first time I ever heard Law and Sids in same sentence.

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    Senior Member Mike Everett's Avatar
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    Re: What is the makeup of the Law grey??

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaOkie View Post
    Max did not work for no one that I know of. He did say Harry Charles backed $$ him a few times.

    This is a thread about Law greys though. Mr Law did pass on some might fine fowl. Law breed and campaigned Brownreds for years before he every had the greys. Today is the first time I ever heard Law and Sids in same sentence.
    Law called them Law Brownreds, but he bought those Sids first as cocks, after seeing them perform I believe in Orlando Tournment. I believe the Log Cabins were not the Black Sid, but Brownred.
    Last edited by Mike Everett; January 12th, 2015 at 05:41 AM.

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    Senior Member BamaOkie's Avatar
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    Re: What is the makeup of the Law grey??

    Mike, I see him advertising in old Grit & Steel mags. I thought they were Stone Brownreds from Col. Alborgotti?

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    Senior Member Mike Everett's Avatar
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    Re: What is the makeup of the Law grey??

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaOkie View Post
    Here is one for the Hugh Norman fans~Max Thagard told me that Hugh Norman is the ONLY person that ever bought one of the Original Viberator cocks. The Viberators where a smutty looking dark grey.

    My Laws come from Sam Yurk. He got them from Law in 1944-46 there abouts after he got out of Navy during WW2. Mine look alot more like the McNeary greys I see in old pictures. The Cleveland Law greys look more Claret like to me. Difference I assume of when you purchased them from EW Law. I will say mine are very aggressive straight forward in your face cutting fools. Mine are 100% YL SC. When I got these greys I realized I finally had a family fowl took a back seat to NOTHING
    old pictures 112.jpg
    I never met Mr. York, but read alot about his Greys and Roundheads, a friend of mine ordered some from him, but the hens had Minor Blue in them. He didn't have any pure hens at that time. Were the Roundheads Hugh Norman as well?

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    Senior Member BamaOkie's Avatar
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    Re: What is the makeup of the Law grey??

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Everett View Post
    I never met Mr. York, but read alot about his Greys and Roundheads, a friend of mine ordered some from him, but the hens had Minor Blue in them. He didn't have any pure hens at that time. Were the Roundheads Hugh Norman as well?
    Carl Davis is what Sam Yurk had. He was always saying his was better than mine. We talked Laws most of the time

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    Senior Member Mike Everett's Avatar
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    Re: What is the makeup of the Law grey??

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaOkie View Post
    Carl Davis is what Sam Yurk had. He was always saying his was better than mine. We talked Laws most of the time
    My friend bred the Laws to Frost and got some good fowl. He raised a few of the 3/4 greys x 1/4 Blue, but he passed away...after coming out of the pit, before he could fight any. I still have one of the LawxFrost cocks.

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    Senior Member BamaOkie's Avatar
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    Re: What is the makeup of the Law grey??

    I know Sam had cancer and was not expected to live long in 1996 when I bought mine from him. 2 years later I started making some "noise" with them. In 1999 I win a good derby with Law cross's, then 2000 win a better one with 1 pure Law as my 4th fyt. rest Law X's. So in June 2000 I call Sam and ordered another trio. Sam told me that the new trio 2000 ones was not the same. They had grey blood from a neighbor. I got them and disposed of them soon after. Sam lived way way way longer than the Doctors gave him. I figure he sold down to much of nothing in 1996 & 97 when he was told he had less than 6 months to live. He passed in 2003.

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