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Thread: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

  
  1. #1
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    Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    YES, COCKFIGHTING IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS IS LEGAL, IF, like in puerto rico, "cockfighting" is a "right" or a "cultural right" of the people of the indian nation or tribe in their tribal law, notwithstanding the federal law against cockfighting.
    http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc...684&pst=870087

    with respect to casino gambling:
    "...there are 562 federally recognized Indian tribes in the United States. Of that number there are 297 Indian Reservations...Through various other court cases in the United States in the 1980’s it was eventually decided to permit Indian Reservations to host gambling centers on their territories so long as the state in which the reservation is located in has some sort of legalized gambling...Currently the money generated by Indian Reservation casinos brings in more money than Las Vegas and Atlantic City combined."
    http://www.777.com/articles/indian-r...casino-culture
    as in puerto rico, how much business, money, and jobs legal cockfighting in indian reservations could generate?

    with respect to cockfighting:
    as in puerto rico, an indian nation or tribe would first have to declare and write in their tribal law that "cockfighting" is a "right" or a "cultural right" of the people of such an indian nation or tribe.
    http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc...684&pst=870087
    in case of enforcement of a conflicting federal law, an indian nation or tribe could successfully claim that "a particular Indian right or policy is infringed by enforcement of the law [the animal fighting venture federal law]". United States v. Barquin, 799 F.2d 619, 621 (10th Cir. 1986), see page 5 of opinion.
    http://www.narf.org/nill/bulletins/c...ted/gachot.pdf
    or, they could successfully argue that, like puerto rico, or any territory or state in the union, an indian tribal nation could enjoy their own rights and their own laws in their own lands. had the Kiowa Indian tribe had such "cockfighting" is a "cultural right" of the Kiowa Indian people in their tribal law, the feds and the animal rights terrorists would not have bothered gatchot.

    these are all my humble personal opinion, and if you agree, email or pass the word to our american indian friends.
    what do you nice people think?
    Last edited by tony777; December 30th, 2009 at 02:29 AM.

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    Senior Member slipspur's Avatar
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Here in the land of the Red Man ( Oklahoma ), they tried fighting on Indian land... the tribal elders even came to my place with an invitation, a signed " document by all the elders & a guarentee of free legal defence if arrested... I didn't buy into it... they fought for a while & then the tribe turned on the cockers & gave permission to local & federal authorities to raid & bust those there. If you can fade the heat, try it... I'm just not in a position to put my career on the line like that.

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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    certainly...what do you think the reason why they came here first..? they have a reservation...right?

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    Senior Member slipspur's Avatar
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Oh yeah, cockfighting was not a historical, cultural past time of the Indian Nation, so it's kind of hard to say it's their cultural right to do so.

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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    slipspur:

    very nice input. thanks.
    well, maybe its the WRONG TRIBE.
    like in casino gaming, when other tribes see business, money, and jobs coming in, they would jump into the bandwagon.

    like casino gaming, it did not start smooth when someone had the idea in the late 70's. there was a lot of court cases they had to fight. but if a tribal nation would do it right, clear, and explicit in their tribal law, such as what they did in puerto rican law, i dont think anyone would bother them. nobody bothers puerto rican cockfighting now, except, of course, for a few crybaby letters from the evil animal rights terrorists and their supporters.

    as to what their cultural rights are, it would be entirely up to any indian nation, not up to us or any outsider.
    i dont think anyone could or would question them if they declare a cultural right in their own tribal law.
    thats their own rights, their own laws, and their own lands.
    (casino gaming is neither a historical, cultural right or past time of any indian nation. it was a radical, no-win idea at the time).

    keep such discussion input coming.
    thanks again.
    Last edited by tony777; December 30th, 2009 at 06:03 AM.

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    Senior Member sucess gamefarm's Avatar
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    I have played with this thought in my mind alot there is legal gambling in the reservations and If the tribes passed it I honestly think california could benefit largly do to the fact that we would have the only legal pits in U.S.A. I know for a fact that Doyle Thompson profited from copperstate and and other pit owners aswell this would bring in lots of well needed money for cali but this is my veiw. Its a great way to bring people to spend there money of course everything would be ran legit and as a business not a back yard pit.I know people would fly from all points of the WORLD to compete here. just my opion and a dream for now

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    Senior Member YeY197's Avatar
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    This would be nice if it was to actualy happen unfortunatly for me there is no indian tribes close to me the nearest one would be in Oklahoma or Nebraska.. I think they tried this in New Mexico but I dont know if it worked..But in the southwestern tribes maybe they could make a claim that it is their cultural right since they are kinda close to Mexico..I wonder if as a Mexican American I could make that claim..I mean I would be a 3rd generation in my Family so it runs in our blood...Just throwin one out there..lol

  8. #8
    beautifulgrl07
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    I Hear A Lot Of Talk About A Tribe In Ruidoso, New Mexico Trying To Make It Legal To Fight On Their Land. I'm With Slip, I Cant Put My Career On The Line To Find Out. A Couple Of Years Ago, Some Boys In Texas Conned Us Out Of Money In Gainsville, Texas Saying They Had Found A Loop Hole And Were Given Permission To Fight. We Drove 5 Hours And Bought Memberships For Nothing. I Learned My Lesson.

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    Senior Member sucess gamefarm's Avatar
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    a buddy of mine also told me that there trying to get legal pits back in new mexico that they hired a big lawyer to push there case. but thats all hear say but if someone is trying I give them my regards because majority of us aint liften no pencile. most of us are spectators watching this hole thing go down the drain. but for those who are fighting to do something my hats off.

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    Member J.EVERETT's Avatar
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    ok heres my deal my brothers wife owns property inside the reservation could we have back yard fights in washington state if its on private property inside the reservation

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    CyberFriends EAA Indians's Avatar
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Quote Originally Posted by tony777
    slipspur:

    very nice input. thanks.
    well, maybe its the WRONG TRIBE.
    like in casino gaming, when other tribes see business, money, and jobs coming in, they would jump into the bandwagon.


    thanks again.
    In Southern California, the tribe council seriously considered cockfighting on the reservation land, on the condition that the space (pit) would generate the same revenue as the casino per square feet.

    Well, cockfighting is not 24/7 like the casinos....so that was the end of it.

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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Would be nice if this would happen, but it more than likely won't . Have thought about his idea for a while now, but it is just a thought.Will never happen , unless we let the different tribes know how much money they can make off of this deal, then they will smell the bacon!!!!@

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    Senior Member VMT^Carmen's Avatar
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Quote Originally Posted by kogmohon
    certainly...what do you think the reason why they came here first..? they have a reservation...right?
    hehehe.....

    ----

    Guys, here's the fact. It is illegal.
    It can be quasi-legal ONLY if there is no complaint brought forth to the local and FEDERAL authorities. So if somebody finds out we are even considering the idea, the element of stealth has been lost, and adversaries to our planned acts are already on the look out.

    Be it as it may, and although INDIAN RESERVATIONS exist autonomously IT IS NOT A SEPERATE COUNTRY or state. It is still liable with and pertinent to the laws of the UNITED STATES of AMERICA. Toying with the idea can be treacherous.

    And cockfighting is NOT an innately AMERICAN INDIAN tradition or heritage. It would take truck loads of booze to convince the Chiefs.

    So no complaint- no case--no arrest.

    --
    The same goes with our friendly barangay kapitan and to our close relative police station commander...in Sitio Tokis, Barangay Larga, Bwangan City.
    No special reservation needed.hihihi
    Last edited by VMT^Carmen; December 30th, 2009 at 08:45 AM.

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    Senior Member sucess gamefarm's Avatar
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    And if the pilgrums ate donkey instead of turkey for thanksgiving we would all get a piece of A S S instead of turkey.

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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    I think that a "treaty" was signed at the end of the Mexican-American war in the 1800's, "The Guadalupe Hidalgo" treaty. On it,I think, let the mexicans that got caught in the american side follow their traditions!. Cockfighting was one of them... but nobody with guts and money stepped in .... a shame...

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    Senior Member YeY197's Avatar
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Quote Originally Posted by New Rooster
    I think that a "treaty" was signed at the end of the Mexican-American war in the 1800's, "The Guadalupe Hidalgo" treaty. On it,I think, let the mexicans that got caught in the american side follow their traditions!. Cockfighting was one of them... but nobody with guts and money stepped in .... a shame...
    I knew it somthing was on my side here I am tierd of looking over my shoulder when Im out feeding my birds...But you are right about the Hidalgo Treaty..The only problem with that is getting some of our hispanic law makers on board. Some might say that it isnt their tradition in order to please their superiors if you know what I mean..I am going to make a DO NOT ENTER PRIVATE PROPERTY PROTECTED BY THE HIDALGO TREATY...sign and put it out in front if this ever works..

  17. #17
    james wolf
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    you still have to travel with cocks to the indian reservation to fight, getting there once a pit became known would be a problem. the sport is dead in the states, the breeders that are still breeding would prob want to keep a low provile so they can cont to sell brood fowl abroad. should delete this for there sake, give them the opportunity to keep breeding as long as they can without serious problems. (my point of view only)

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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Quote Originally Posted by james wolf
    you still have to travel with cocks to the indian reservation to fight, getting there once a pit became known would be a problem. the sport is dead in the states, the breeders that are still breeding would prob want to keep a low provile so they can cont to sell brood fowl abroad. should delete this for there sake, give them the opportunity to keep breeding as long as they can without serious problems. (my point of view only)


    i agree james...putting a stag in my garage is already a misdeneanor according to my wife and that is a automatic first down at the dog house...

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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    sucess gamefarm:

    thanks.
    puerto rico cockfighting generates about $400 million per year. thats a lot of business, money, and jobs.

    its a fact that cockfighting is legal in puerto rico, u.s. virgin islands, the northern mariana islands, and guam. so, COCKFIGHTING COULD ALSO BECOME LEGAL IN THE INDIAN NATIONS if we have a legally correct tribal law that would co-exist with state and federal laws. puerto rico's model, "cockfighting" is a "cultural right"-law is an open book, which the feds and the evil animal rights terrorists could not do anything about.

    so we dont have to be stealthy, or take the do nothing, give up attitude again before we even try. it has to be a legal and open endeavor, not a backyard operation.
    with any controversial action, like the casino gaming idea, there would be complaints and cases. no pain, no gain. everybody would have their own lawyers, and the legal cockfighting business in the indian nation would be tried and tested in the open. what do we got to lose by trying?

    thanks for sharing your dream, that "people would fly from all points of the WORLD to compete here".
    transporting chickens from state to state is not illegal and is not a problem.
    with our gamefowl breeders', cockpit operators', and cockfighters' sharing their expertise with the right host, a host indian tribe, working together, we could make cockfighting an open legal business, clean, fair, honest, thrilling, exciting, and popular again; with wortham's rules; with strict and random computer matching; with fair and competitive norms--10% maximum cockpit-take on derby entry fees with 90% payback in total prizes, and with 10% maximum cockpit-take on center bets; plus, with a gate fee of, say, $10 per person, food, other businesses income, land rental income (for those who want to breed in indian land), and casino income--that's a lot of business, money, and jobs for an indian nation.

    it could be an indian nation in california, hawaii, or any state. our gamefowl breeders' and cockfighters' leadership would just need to find the right partner, the right tribe that is willing to clearly and explicitly declare and write in their tribal law that "cockfighting" is a "cultural right" of their people, and turn their vast and unused real estate into a legal money making machine, and provide business, money, and jobs to their people. and like in casino gaming, other indian nations would follow.

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    Senior Member slipspur's Avatar
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Quote Originally Posted by New Rooster
    I think that a "treaty" was signed at the end of the Mexican-American war in the 1800's, "The Guadalupe Hidalgo" treaty. On it,I think, let the mexicans that got caught in the american side follow their traditions!. Cockfighting was one of them... but nobody with guts and money stepped in .... a shame...
    When I first heard of this, I researched the treaty & I actually thought that New Mexico had a real chance at getting cockfighting back... the US government does not play by the rules or play fair... I don't know what squashed the Treaty defence... I'm sure it was something underhanded.

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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Tony, the one thing I can say is the places that you are mentioning are all territories and I don't think they fall in the same catagory as the states, I could be wrong. Each state get pressure from the U.S. government to inacted certain laws or they will loose funding. I am not sure if it works the same way in a territory.
    Last edited by Hawaiian Breed; December 31st, 2009 at 12:51 AM.

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    Senior Member YeY197's Avatar
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Quote Originally Posted by slipspur
    When I first heard of this, I researched the treaty & I actually thought that New Mexico had a real chance at getting cockfighting back... the US government does not play by the rules or play fair... I don't know what squashed the Treaty defence... I'm sure it was something underhanded.
    The thing that went down in New mexico is our Hispanic Law makers not standing behind us for fear of being outcasted by the rest of the voters that arent Hispanic....Not all did this, but the lady behind (I forget her name) the hole ban in New Mexico is Mexican/American and she ruined it all by squashing the hole Hidalgo thing..But I know my people and somtimes they feel outcasted and in order to gain some power some will turn their back on their own community, not all but, you always got one or two that think that by going with the flow it will get them somwhere faster. Sad but true..I hope she knows she looks like a fool to us because with that hole Hidlago thing she stated that Cockfighting was not Mexican tradition...She probably hasnt even been to Mexico if she thinks it isnt tradition.

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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Quote Originally Posted by slipspur
    Here in the land of the Red Man ( Oklahoma ), they tried fighting on Indian land... the tribal elders even came to my place with an invitation, a signed " document by all the elders & a guarentee of free legal defence if arrested... I didn't buy into it... they fought for a while & then the tribe turned on the cockers & gave permission to local & federal authorities to raid & bust those there. If you can fade the heat, try it... I'm just not in a position to put my career on the line like that.
    You're absolutely right about that Slip. At first I thought fighting in an Indian reservation land is a viable options, I was dead wrong.

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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Quote Originally Posted by EAA Indians
    In Southern California, the tribe council seriously considered cockfighting on the reservation land, on the condition that the space (pit) would generate the same revenue as the casino per square feet.

    Well, cockfighting is not 24/7 like the casinos....so that was the end of it.
    that proposition is next to impossible, even if cockfighting is 24/7 considering the income that will be generated will only come from gate receipts and parking.

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    Senior Member sucess gamefarm's Avatar
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEEAGLES
    that proposition is next to impossible, even if cockfighting is 24/7 considering the income that will be generated will only come from gate receipts and parking.

    And food I seen little kid having fun side beting dollars a i get a smile It kept me off the streets and In my back yard. It saved me alot of trouble .As long as its elegal I hope some kids pick up a fowl instead of drugs.

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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Quote Originally Posted by sucess gamefarm
    And food I seen little kid having fun side beting dollars a i get a smile It kept me off the streets and In my back yard. It saved me alot of trouble .As long as its elegal I hope some kids pick up a fowl instead of drugs.
    My friend you just hit the nail right on the head. I guess the goverment has their own priorities. As long as there's these lobbyist that the ARAS's and Humane Society can afford to pay, we are out of luck.

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    Senior Member slipspur's Avatar
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Let me tell y'all a short version of what happened here in Oklahoma... as I saw it... out of state folks came in here & started up a petition ( against our state constitution )... they paid homeless folks $1 per signature ( they wrote down names from phone books & cemetaries... against the law ). It went to the vote of the people... at least 3/4 of our counties voted to keep cockfighting... but 3 counties that were already against the law to cockfight had the populus to out vote the majority of our state ( city folks dictating what country folks do ). The OGBA fought this, with good defence... the out of staters & the 67% of bogus signatures on the petition... the Oklahoma Supreme Court sent their own investigators in... they found in our favor & went back with their findings... for the first time in the history of Oklahoma statehood, the OSC threw out their own investigators finding. Then it went to the United States Supreme Court... they threw it out, choosing to honor the OSC's decession...

    ... in other words... we got screwed!!!

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    Member Guamasil's Avatar
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    I think that the whole screw up in Oklahoma needs to be investigated. With the power of the internet, folks can contribute what they know about what really happened throughout the whole process. The whole truth must be told. People who took bribes and/or aligned with the ARAs must be exposed so that the people of Oklahoma can take steps to make things right.

  29. #29
    james wolf
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    slipspur is going the right direction, moving to the pi where he can fight 7 days a week if he wants. as much as i love the sport it is dead as nails in the states, you will never have the people behind you!! your 30 or 40 yrs late! what needs to be protected is the right of the breeders to cont to make a living breeding fowl, not fighting in the states, that is dead!!

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    Senior Member VMT^Carmen's Avatar
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Quote Originally Posted by james wolf
    slipspur is going the right direction, moving to the pi where he can fight 7 days a week if he wants. as much as i love the sport it is dead as nails in the states, you will never have the people behind you!! your 30 or 40 yrs late! what needs to be protected is the right of the breeders to cont to make a living breeding fowl, not fighting in the states, that is dead!!
    Yes, and even breeding competitive gamefowls in the States is fast becoming extinct. The figthing industry is on its terminal stage and nothing can be done to revive it.

    So, in going with the Indian Reservation idea of pursuing even a shed of legality for cockfighting is in itself a costly desperation to bask on cockfighting's former glory in the States.

    For now, and in the deep comraderie of secrecy, events are held far in between. And in the long run, so quality inevitably suffers..as an ultimate result(same as an Olympian over time with few competitive events participated). It is fast becoming a smaller window for breeder's produce to slip through the felony/misdemeanor dragnet and eventually( perhaps in this coming decade) Stateside source for gamefowls is less desirable..and then the pratical economic forces will finally kill the "Texas" breed. There will still be pockets of resistance but it too will succumb similar fate.

    A cocker/breeder would opt to be more wiser to find sources outside the USA, and which the Philippines will quickly rise up to the challenge..of course vying for what is supposed to be Stateside revenue. We now have the advantage of foresight in these matters, and it is time to capitalise on it. And going to the Indian Reservations is not the way forward..legally and pratically. It would jsut be more hot water for the chickens...and the afficionado.

    My piece.

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