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Thread: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

  1. #61
    james wolf
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Derby Circuit--why It's Important?

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    To Imus, Cavite Cockpit Afficionados/customers, Q #2:

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  2. #62
    CyberFriends EAA Indians's Avatar
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Hey James, do not let Tony 777 upset you. No need to leave Sabong.ph.net. Tony 777 is like many members who come up with different threads.

    I do not agree with several of Tony's opinions but the man is obsessed to make Sabong entrenched in the Philippines like in Puerto Rico.

    Like Presidents Obama, Clinton and Bush, they may dissagree on many issues but they get together to motivate people and countries to bring emergency disaster aid to Haiti Earthquate Victims.

    good luck to all of us and to Sabong....

  3. #63
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    james wolf:

    thanks.
    i wish, hope, and pray that you are ok.
    i would like to thank you for being such a loyal follower of my threads.
    thanks again.

  4. #64
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5knuckleshuffle
    Would be nice if this would happen, but it more than likely won't . Have thought about his idea for a while now, but it is just a thought.Will never happen , unless we let the different tribes know how much money they can make off of this deal, then they will smell the bacon!!!!@
    the "bacon" in legal cockfighting in indian lands: business, money, and jobs. 5knuckleshuffle.

    "History of Indian Gaming

    In the very early 1970s, Russell and Helen Bryan, a married Chippewa couple living in a mobile home on Indian lands in northern Minnesota, received a property tax bill from the local county, Itasca County.[1] The Bryans had never received a property tax bill from the county before. Not certain what to do, but unwilling to pay it, they took the tax notice to local legal aid attorneys at Leech Lake Legal Services, who brought suit to challenge the tax in the state courts. The Bryans lost their case in the state district court, and they lost again on appeal in a unanimous decision by the Minnesota Supreme Court. Their last chance was to seek review in the United States Supreme Court. The Supreme Court granted review, and in a sweeping and unanimous decision authored by Justice Brennan, the Supreme Court held not only that states do not have authority to tax Indians on Indian reservations, but that they also lack the authority to regulate Indian activities by Indians on Indian reservations.[1] As Gaming Law Professor Kevin K. Washburn has explained, the stage was now set for Indian gaming...."
    Last edited by tony777; February 6th, 2010 at 12:03 AM.

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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    ...Under the leadership of Howard Tommie, the Seminole Tribe of Florida built a large high-stakes bingo building on their reservation near Fort Lauderdale, Florida. The tribe planned for the bingo hall to be open six days a week, contrary to Florida state law which only allows two days a week for bingo halls to be open, as well as going over the maximum limit of $100 jackpots [2]. The law was enacted from the charity bingo limits set by Catholic Churches. The sheriff of Broward County, where the Indian reservation lies, made arrests the minute the bingo hall opened, and the tribe sued (Seminole Tribe v. Butterworth) the county stating that Indian tribes have sovereignty rights that are protected by the federal government from interference by state government. A District court ruled in favor of the Indians, citing Chief Justice John Marshall in Worcester v. Georgia. Here began the legal war of Indian gaming with a win for the Seminoles..."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_...ng_enterprises

    now, its "cockfighting" is a "cultural right" of the people of the indian nation-idea.
    http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc...684&pst=870087
    with a rebirth of legal cockfighting in indian lands, our breeders would be the number one beneficiary of such idea.
    ideas rule the world.
    Last edited by tony777; February 8th, 2010 at 02:23 AM.

  6. #66
    Senior Member lansford101's Avatar
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    i like this thread why not allow gameing on reservations u know another culture who fought roosters native hawaiians i think that when we astblish our rights and get our acts in line and evry thing is good then hawaiians should legalize cock fighting also i dont see why we cant do it now we are native hawaiians but i guss the man dont see it that way
    Last edited by lansford101; February 6th, 2010 at 12:10 AM.

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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Quote Originally Posted by lansford101
    i like this thread why not allow gameing on reservations u know another culture who fought roosters native hawaiians i think that when we astblish our rights and get our acts in line and evry thing is good then hawaiians should legalize cock fighting also i dont see why we cant do it now we are native hawaiians but i guss the man dont see it that way
    lansford101:

    there are 2 ways hawaiians could enjoy legal cockfighting again:

    1. if hawaii amends its law, haw. rev. stat., section 711-1109, that: such law does NOT apply to cocks and cockfighting, and that "cockfighting" is a "culural right" of the people of hawaii, cockfighting would become legal in hawaii.
    http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscur..._0711-1109.htm

    or

    2. if native hawaiians are a federally recognized tribe, they could enact a tribal law that:
    "cockfighting" is a "cultural right" of the native hawaiians.
    http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc...684&pst=870087
    then, native hawaiians could enjoy legal cockfighting again in their lands, and they could also obtain a class 3 cockfighting gambling license, just like the indian casino gaming in the mainland, and make cockfighting a source of business, money, and jobs.
    hawaaii has a large pinoy population, and has a deep root, culture, and tradition of cockfighting among its people.

    if there is a will, there is a way.

    (in the mid 70's, i and my friends used to go to a round cockpit in waianae, which was ran by the portuguese. every fighting day, like clockwork, an undercover cop would shout and announce a raid, and would take away only the 2 handlers and the referee. that fight was a draw. before they reach the street, the fun begins anew. some said the cops are just doing such raid to pacify the animal rights terrorists, that the cops were doing something against sabong.)
    good luck.
    cheers.
    mahalo.

  8. #68
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Quote Originally Posted by VMT^Carmen
    ...although INDIAN RESERVATIONS exist autonomously IT IS NOT A SEPERATE COUNTRY or state. It is still liable with and pertinent to the laws of the UNITED STATES of AMERICA. Toying with the idea can be treacherous.
    And cockfighting is NOT an innately AMERICAN INDIAN tradition or heritage. It would take truck loads of booze to convince the Chiefs...
    VMT^Carmen:

    its a fact that cockfighting is legal in the United States territories of Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands, the Northern Mariana Islands, and Guam. the bottom line is the law.
    see cockfighting laws around the world, at posting #42, 46, and 48, at:
    http://sabong.net.ph/forum/showthrea...t=34494&page=2

    the puerto rican-"cockfighting" is a "cultural right"-law could be adopted in any territory, indian reservations, in hawaii or any other state (with amendment of such state's existing anti-cockfighting law). in indian nations, there is no need to amend or repeal anything.
    all an indian tribe need are:
    1. a clear and explicit declaration that "cockfighting" is a "cultural right" of the people of such tribe, in their tribal laws, (no proof is needed, no approval is needed from state or federal courts or from any state or fed govt agency for such declaration);
    2. a class 3 cockfighting gaming license;
    3. a covered cockpit, (no start up-big money investment is needed, such as casinos and hotels).

    all the tribes need from us, cockfighters, are our expertise (wortham rules; world class, the toughest, strictly random computer matching; 10%/90% house take/total prizes-norms or less; fair and neutral cockfighting and derby rules, etc.) and support.

    lastly, i sincerely and honestly believe that we should stay away from stereotyping other people. we should help "convince the Chiefs" and the indian nations that legal cockfighting in indian lands is worth their while in business, money, and jobs, and help keep the idea alive.
    Last edited by tony777; February 8th, 2010 at 01:50 AM.

  9. #69
    Senior Member lansford101's Avatar
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Quote Originally Posted by VMT^Carmen
    hehehe.....

    ----

    Guys, here's the fact. It is illegal.
    It can be quasi-legal ONLY if there is no complaint brought forth to the local and FEDERAL authorities. So if somebody finds out we are even considering the idea, the element of stealth has been lost, and adversaries to our planned acts are already on the look out.

    Be it as it may, and although INDIAN RESERVATIONS exist autonomously IT IS NOT A SEPERATE COUNTRY or state. It is still liable with and pertinent to the laws of the UNITED STATES of AMERICA. Toying with the idea can be treacherous.

    And cockfighting is NOT an innately AMERICAN INDIAN tradition or heritage. It would take truck loads of booze to convince the Chiefs.

    So no complaint- no case--no arrest.

    --
    The same goes with our friendly barangay kapitan and to our close relative police station commander...in Sitio Tokis, Barangay Larga, Bwangan City.
    No special reservation needed.hihihi
    hay u would not like it if i said u are a dog eating dink would u pls stay awy from the slanders of other ppls cultures im native american and i dont like what u said and in some tribes around the central americas cockfighting was and maybe is still tradition and apart of there heritage

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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    I read on another board that Mike Turner lost his lawsuit. That sucks. That kind of kills the Indian land approach

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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadGame4
    I read on another board that Mike Turner lost his lawsuit. That sucks. That kind of kills the Indian land approach
    i dont think so.
    it would not kill the indian land approach because mike is using an entirely different legal argument.
    the kiowa tribe does not have a "cockfighting" is a "cultural right" of the people of the kiowa nation in their tribal laws.
    mike is basing his court fight under "The Reserve Rights Doctrine which holds any rights not specifically addressed in a Treaty or Federal Statute is reserved to the Tribe see again United States v. Winans 198 U.S. 371."
    well, its mike's fight.
    my humble opinion is: mike would be a sure winner if the kiowas, like the puerto ricans, have such a clear and explicit "cockfighting" is a "cultural right"-tribal law. it is quite difficult, if not impossible, to challenge such "cultural right" law.
    http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc...684&pst=870087
    in any case, i wish, hope, and pray that mike wins his court case, and i wish him good luck.

    here is the latest from mike:
    "[02-03-2010, 12:34 PM] The CFR Court case is on appeal to the 10th Circuit a Intent to appeal the Distric Court Order was sent to U.S. District Court to the Western District of Oklahoma wenesday before the storm hit donot celebrate yet its not over until the fat lady sings you and yer reliable are going to have to wait a little longer...LOL....YFIS...Mike Turner....Kiowa Association...
    [ 02-05-2010, 12:32 PM] I wanted to say thank you all, the Notice of Intent to Appeal was docketed on Feb 3, 2010, I wanted to say one thing here it is in the best interest of all Cockers to work together and move forward I know folks are desperate as jello out there with everyone concerned about which direction to follow it's hard for some to decide who has the great direction to bring it all back let me tell you it's not easy when we are all divided we all need to work together toward a goal of getting those rights back that have been taken from everyone by the special interest like I have said support those organizations that support you. The only way to win is to try and work together thats the secret........Yfis.....Mike Turner.....Kiowa Association"

  12. #72
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    I hope youre right but weve been hearing promises about this for 10 years. Every time someone tries it they get raided. Im tired of false hope, false promises, jailhouse lawyers that think they know the law and dont, and flat out lies. Mike Turner and Bobby Jones said this Indian land thing would work and asked everyone to send them $300 to buy a license to be a part of it. People sent their money in and then it got shut down. No moey ever was refunded. We havent seen a legal pit yet from this and its been 10 years.

  13. #73
    Senior Member irishcutt's Avatar
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    You wont see a legal pit either Deadgame4!!!! Even if was legal to show on indian land (which it aint) how you gonna get them there if you dont live in Oklahoma. Its a felony to transport animals/gamecocks across state lines even to legal states or territories with the intent to fight them!! Anyone who got caught in that scam just lost thier money. If im not mistaken, I believe the indians have to get permission from the states to even open thier casinos and buy gamblin licenses from the state. Also they pay taxes to the states for gambling winnings and get a license from the state to sell lliqour.. No matter who, what or how you claim to live your still under the jurisdiction of the state and federal government..

  14. #74
    Senior Member colt39's Avatar
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Quote Originally Posted by irishcutt
    You wont see a legal pit either Deadgame4!!!! Even if was legal to show on indian land (which it aint) how you gonna get them there if you dont live in Oklahoma. Its a felony to transport animals/gamecocks across state lines even to legal states or territories with the intent to fight them!! Anyone who got caught in that scam just lost thier money. If im not mistaken, I believe the indians have to get permission from the states to even open thier casinos and buy gamblin licenses from the state. Also they pay taxes to the states for gambling winnings and get a license from the state to sell lliqour.. No matter who, what or how you claim to live your still under the jurisdiction of the state and federal government..
    you are right. There will not be a legal pit in the US again. Just too many ***'s that think it is wrong. Can't fight the government either. Look at this health care bill they are trying to ram down out throats. The majority of us do not want the Government running our health Care but it still has not stoped them.

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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadGame4
    I hope youre right but weve been hearing promises about this for 10 years. Every time someone tries it they get raided. Im tired of false hope, false promises, jailhouse lawyers that think they know the law and dont, and flat out lies. Mike Turner and Bobby Jones said this Indian land thing would work and asked everyone to send them $300 to buy a license to be a part of it. People sent their money in and then it got shut down. No moey ever was refunded. We havent seen a legal pit yet from this and its been 10 years.
    DeadGame4:

    sorry to hear that.
    the promise of a clear and explicit "cockfighting" is a "cultural right" of the people-law is quite different and fairly new.
    A TERRITORY, STATE, INDIAN NATION, OR A COUNTRY (such as the philippines, mexico, france, peru, etc.) MUST FIRST CLEARLY AND EXPLICITLY DECLARE IN THEIR OWN LAW THAT "COCKFIGHTING" IS A "CULTURAL RIGHT" OF THEIR PEOPLE.
    ONLY AFTER SUCH LAW IS ENACTED WOULD COCKFIGHTING BE PROTECTED AND PRESERVED LEGALLY IN SUCH PLACE.

    in august 2007, the "cockfighting" is a "cultural right" of the people-idea became law in puerto rico to protect and preserve cockfighting there because, after louisiana, puerto rico was the next target of the evil animal rights terrorists.
    http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc...684&pst=870087
    such law has proven to kill the anti-cockfighting movement instantly.

    once a right is declared and recognized in law, its quite difficult, if not impossible, to take away such right by the same people who declared it as their right in the first place.
    the only rights that i could think of that has been taken away before are:
    1. the right to own a slave, and
    2. the right to enjoy alcohol legally (which was given, taken, and given back),
    (with respect to the right of gays to marriage, it has a zero score by the people in the ballot box, so we could not say it was given and taken away, or vice versa. so far, its all politicians' and judges' interpretation, not the peoples' ballot box interpretation.)

    to those who are part of this "$300 to buy a license to be a part of it"-enterprise, i humbly suggest that you inform your leaders about adopting this proven and effective, 2007-puerto rican law, and enact a tribal law that "cockfighting" is a "cultural right" of the indian tribe.
    imho, its a sure winner.
    transporting chickens-problems were discussed in posting #40, at page 2.

  16. #76
    Senior Member irishcutt's Avatar
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Your absolutely right Jim, we dont want the government in our business but since the H$U$ has so much money to bribe the politicians with and they use it to make legislators inact thier agendas we're not gonna keep the government out. He who has the most money to bribe with gets the laws made!!! If your gay, lesbian, illegal, and an *** your in the groups who rule.. It not only the liberals who are selling us out its anyone in politics that has an open hand looking for a donation "to thier campaign" LOL.. In reality they could give a damn about a chicken! But the problem is so many beleive what the H$U$ is hollering as gospel when in reality the only they stand for is Power!! No one kills more animals in this country then the Animal Rights. We are never gonna see a legal pit in our country as long as stupid people buy into the phony rethoric that is being pushed out there by the ***'s. Even with the ***'s being called Terrorist by our own government, no one wants to do anything to stop them.. But back to the original thread post, it will never be made legal in this country, indian reservation or not!!!

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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Oh I see Tony777 we just get the legislature to make cockfighitng a cultural right. Its that easy. Well hell, why didnt anyone think of this before?

    Im being sarcastic. No legislature in the 50 states is going to legalize, make it a cultural right or anything like that. Colt and Irishcutt are 110% right. Too many fags in charge, too many people against us.

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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Quote Originally Posted by irishcutt
    You wont see a legal pit either Deadgame4!!!! Even if was legal to show on indian land (which it aint) how you gonna get them there if you dont live in Oklahoma. Its a felony to transport animals/gamecocks across state lines even to legal states or territories with the intent to fight them!! Anyone who got caught in that scam just lost thier money. If im not mistaken, I believe the indians have to get permission from the states to even open thier casinos and buy gamblin licenses from the state. Also they pay taxes to the states for gambling winnings and get a license from the state to sell lliqour.. No matter who, what or how you claim to live your still under the jurisdiction of the state and federal government..
    irishcutt:

    thanks.
    lets think positive.
    transporting chickens-issues were discussed at posting #40, at page 2.

    IT IS LEGAL TO TRANSPORT CHICKENS FROM STATE TO STATE/INDIAN LANDS, OR VICE VERSA.
    i would not say that i intend to fight my chickens. thats legal harakiri.
    i would say im showing, exchanging, giving away, enjoying, or selling chickens with friends. after all, everybody have the right to interstate commerce.
    no one could successfully prosecute anyone based SOLELY on "intent". its like reading and proving peoples' minds.

    puerto rico's cockfighting income is estimated to be about $400 million or more per year.
    $400 million or more per year to the indian nations thru legal cockfighting in indian lands is business, money, and jobs.

    TO DO LIST FOR LEGAL COCKFIGHTING IN INDIAN LANDS:
    1. an indian tribe MUST FIRST enact a clear and explicit "cockfighting" is a "cultural right" of the people of the indian nation, in their tribal law/statutes.
    http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc...684&pst=870087
    with such cultural right-tribal law in place and with cockfighting regulated by tribal laws or regulations, cockfighting is legal in such tribes, and the state or the feds would have NO JURISDICTION over cockfighting in such indian lands.
    2. next, such indian tribe should obtain a class III gambling license for cockfighting. (with this, the legal fight would be easier).
    3. then, a simple covered cockpit should do as a start.
    such indian tribe does not need huge start up capital money (for casinos, hotels, etc.).
    with respect to taxes, its a must obey for any business, and PAYING TAXES IS NOT A PROBLEM.
    just my humble opinions.
    thanks again.

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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Tony I hate to tell you this, but you are dead wrong when you say no one can be prosecuted solely on intent. it happens alllllllll the time. It happens iwth chickens. It happens with dogs. And it happens with drugs and all sorts of other things

    I really hate being the one to piss on the parade here but i think its important that cockers know the real road ahead and not get a bunch of candycanes and lollypops from jailhouse lawyers.

    WHat im afraid is that someone takes this bad legal advice, does his thing, gets caught and then gets a cold shot of reality that hurts him and h is family.

    Before I got into chickens i was into dogs and i saw a LOT of friends go down on intent for fighting and it really hurt them and their families. Cockers deserve to know the truth so we can all make our individual decisions about how to live with allthe facts in mind.

    Your all brothers in this fraternity and i wish the best for all of you. Im tired of the BS we face, all of it

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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadGame4
    Tony I hate to tell you this, but you are dead wrong when you say no one can be prosecuted solely on intent. it happens alllllllll the time. It happens iwth chickens. It happens with dogs. And it happens with drugs and all sorts of other things

    I really hate being the one to piss on the parade here but i think its important that cockers know the real road ahead and not get a bunch of candycanes and lollypops from jailhouse lawyers.

    WHat im afraid is that someone takes this bad legal advice, does his thing, gets caught and then gets a cold shot of reality that hurts him and h is family.

    Before I got into chickens i was into dogs and i saw a LOT of friends go down on intent for fighting and it really hurt them and their families. Cockers deserve to know the truth so we can all make our individual decisions about how to live with allthe facts in mind.

    Your all brothers in this fraternity and i wish the best for all of you. Im tired of the BS we face, all of it
    DeadGame4:

    thanks.
    for legal protection and to avoid legal problems, see posting #41, page #2.
    i do not suggest that one should go to indian lands and just enjoy cockfighting there.
    thats asking for trouble.
    it should be like indian casino gaming. people should not go there until after the state, the feds, and the courts say its legal and ok.

    with respect to being prosecuted for "intent", i think you are confusing intimidation and harrassment vs successful prosecution.
    any evil animal rights terrorists cop or law enforcement officer could stop, intimidate, or harass you for transporting chickens, or practically, for anything.
    but if thats all you have, chickens, and nothing else, how could they successfully prosecute you?
    of course, fighting back, such as taking legal action against them, would take time, energy, and money, and most people just let such incident pass. if you have heard or seen any successful prosecution based SOLELY on "intent", please kindly post the court case/info here. most of the time, what we hear or read in the news do not have the complete facts...(continuing...)

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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    (continuing...)

    ...what you could do when stopped:
    be calm, polite, and cooperative;
    get the names, and badge numbers;
    record the date, time, and place;
    ask them what are the charges against you or why they are stopping you;
    have an inventory of what you have;
    and, if possible, have an audio and video recording of what took place.
    we have been stopped a few times, all we have are chickens only, we showed our poulty show membership card and our poultry business licence/permit, and they let us go, everytime. its a nuisance, but thats life.

    as cockfighters, we would be targeted by the evil enemies for intimidation and harrassment, and if we are not careful, such as carrying illegal items, we could be successfully prosecuted for "intent for fighting".
    the bottom line is:
    IT IS LEGAL TO TRANSPORT CHICKENS FROM STATE TO STATE/INDIAN LANDS, OR VICE VERSA. CHICKENS ONLY.

    we are just brainstorming for the best move, and all these are just our personal opinions.
    but i think we should never give up the fight, as long as there is a way that we could still try.
    i, and everybody, understand all the b.s. that we all face.
    thanks again.
    Last edited by tony777; February 12th, 2010 at 03:02 AM.

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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Quote Originally Posted by colt39
    you are right. There will not be a legal pit in the US again. Just too many ***'s that think it is wrong. Can't fight the government either. Look at this health care bill they are trying to ram down out throats. The majority of us do not want the Government running our health Care but it still has not stoped them.
    colt39:

    i think we should stay positive and keep on fighting for our sport as long as there is a way we could try.
    prior to 2007 (and up to the present), cockfighting was legal and popular in puerto rico.
    after louisiana, they were the next target of the evil animal rights terrorists.
    the puerto ricans were quite different. they did not do nothing, they did not stay below the radar, they did not flinch, and they fought the evil animal rights terrorists head on.
    they were proactive. and although cockfighting was already legal and popular (as in the phil), in august 2007, they protected and preserved puerto rican cockfighting forever by enacting the best cockfighting law in the world: a clear and explicit declaration in law that "cockfighting" is a "a cultural right of the Puerto Rican people".
    http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc...684&pst=870087
    compare cockfighting laws around the world at postings #42, 46, and 48, at:
    http://sabong.net.ph/forum/showthrea...t=34494&page=2

    the august 2007-puerto rican "cockfighting" is a "cultural right"-law instantly killed the anti-cockfighting movement in puerto rico. and so far, there has been no legal challenge.
    now, such "cultural right" is protected under the puerto rican constitution and under the u.s. constitution.
    all the evil enemies could do now is write letters, whine, and cry, as the evil enemies' care2 article above shows.
    the puerto rican cockfighting law is karma against the evil animal rights terrorists.
    lets give them the same karma in the indian nations too, and have legal cockfighting in indian lands.
    thanks again.

  23. #83
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadGame4
    Oh I see Tony777 we just get the legislature to make cockfighitng a cultural right. Its that easy. Well hell, why didnt anyone think of this before?

    Im being sarcastic. No legislature in the 50 states is going to legalize, make it a cultural right or anything like that. Colt and Irishcutt are 110% right. Too many fags in charge, too many people against us.
    DeadGame4:

    thanks.
    yes, all we have to do is just encourage an indian tribe legislature to make "cockfighting" a "cultural right" in their tribal law. its that easy.
    prior to 2007, ITS NO ONE'S FAULT THAT NO ONE HAS THOUGHT ABOUT SUCH "COCKFIGHTING" IS A "CULTURAL RIGHT" OF THE PEOPLE-LAW BEFORE.
    the puerto ricans did it, and the indian nations could do it too.
    as to the 50 states, you might be right, although i think hawaii could do it.

    we have three choices:

    1. fight for cockfighting based on all existing and current laws (federal, states, indian, etc.) and case laws, like what mike is doing, (which i think is positive, but a weak approach);
    2. encourage the indian tribes to enact a "cockfighting" is a "cultural right" of the people of such tribes, in their tribal laws/statutes. like in puerto rico, it would manifestly change the legal landscape in favor of legal cockfighting in indian lands, and our chances of winning would be the best.
    3. or just do nothing, just give up--the quitter's or the loser's choice.

    puerto rico generates about $400 million or more per year in cockfighting income.
    such income is not as much as indian casino gaming, but such income is still business, money, and jobs for the indian nations.
    american indians used to be animal hunting society, and they do not care about those fags' animal rights propaganda.
    i do not believe that the evil animal rights terrorists could win a fight against the indian nations if the indian nations decide that the business, money, and jobs that legal cockfighting in indian lands would generate is worth it.
    imho, choice #2 is the best.
    thanks again.

  24. #84
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5knuckleshuffle
    ...Will never happen , unless we let the different tribes know how much money they can make off of this deal, then they will smell the bacon!!!!@
    5knuckleshuffle:

    "how much money they can make off of this deal"?
    puerto rican cockfighting generates about $400 million or more per year.
    in my humble opinion, in the united states, legal cockfighting in indian nations with class III gambling license would generate much more money and would eventually surpass puerto rico's cockfighting income.
    the u.s. of a. is a huge land, with indian tribes and cockfighters all across the country, from coast to coast.

    to make it happen, all we need to do is to encourage and convince one indian tribe to try our ideas:

    1. enact a "cockfighting" is a "cultural right" of the people of the indian nation, IN THEIR TRIBAL LAW/STATUTE, to make cockfighting legal in such indian lands, and to instantly kill the anti-cockfighting interests. like the puerto ricans, this step they could do easily on their own.
    http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc...684&pst=870087

    2. such indian tribe should obtain a game III gambling license for cockfighting, to make gambling in cockfighting legal in such indian lands, just like indian casino gambling. since "cockfighting" is their "cultural right" in their tribal law, obtaining such license would be easier.

    3. a small covered cockpit would do for a start. a very small investment.

    once business, money, and jobs start pouring in thru such legal cockfighting in indian lands with a class III gambling license, other indian tribes all across the country, from coast to coast, would compete for such business, money, and jobs.

  25. #85
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    "Legalize Ultimate Fighting to Help the Economy, Gov. Says

    Gov. Paterson is pushing to legalize ultimate fighting in New York, claiming the unrestrained mixed-martial arts events will make a quick buck for the state's troubled economy."
    http://gothamist.com/2010/01/11/lega...ng_to_help.php

    legalize cockfighting in indian reservations with class III gaming license would also help the economy.
    it would help the indian nations with more business, money, and jobs.
    the same goes for the gamefowl breeders.
    and for our cockfighters, a legal venue would be a welcome site.
    in this hard economic times, rather than have the local counties, cities, and govt waste their precious, thin, and scarce resources in investigating and arresting peaceful citizens who are enjoying cockfighting, they could spend such resources better in fighting gang wars, child kidnappings, home invasions, illegal drugs, and other crimes.

  26. #86
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    COCKFIGHTING CHICKENS VS. GAME FOWLS SHOW CHICKENS-CASE LAW

    TO THOSE WHO BREED OR OWN CHICKENS IN THE STATES,
    PLEASE READ BELOW AND BE INFORMED:

    "No. 4D08-438
    [February 24, 2010]

    Defendant was charged and convicted of three counts of animal fighting for events occurring on a single day in April...
    According to testimony of an investigating officer, she found over 100 animals on his property...

    The officer never witnessed any animal fighting during any of her visits to the property. Nor did she witness anyone baiting or attempting to induce birds to fight..She admitted that arenas are typically used when the birds fight but there was no arena on defendant’s property. Particular breeds of roosters are trimme d and dubbed to signify their breed, similar to trimming certain breeds of dogs. Roosters are also trimmed and dubbed to prevent overheating and mites. Thus, the fact that the roosters in the garage were trimmed and dubbed does not refute innocent possession of such fowl...

    The President of the Florida Delegation of the Game Bird Breeders Association testified about the game fowl breed. Game fowl is a particular type of domesticated poultry, he explained, suitable for the sport of cock fighting, but they are also used in shows. Game fowl’s natural instinct is to fight other fowl; hence it is appropriate to transport or keep them caged separately. He pointed out that fowl are trimmed to promote fertility and to control mites and are dubbed in order to promote fertility and vigor and prevent fowl pox. The fowl’s natural spur is commonly trimmed in order to prevent injury to the bird’s handlers. Muffs are also put on the birds in order to prevent injury to handlers. Various vitamins, including B-12, are used to promote health in the roosters a n d testosterone is commonly u s e d to increase fertility. Supplements often labeled and marketed for cock fighting are simply high potency vitamins that are good for promoting the general health of farm fowl...

    § 828.122, Fla. Stat. (2007). Two things are clear from this statute. The first is that mere possession of the fowl is not evidence of the crime; the second is that all of the offenses within include the element of animal fighting or baiting. We conclude that this statute requires some evidence of animal fighting or baiting beyond mere possession..."

    http://www.4dca.org/opinions/Feb%202...D08-438.op.pdf
    Last edited by tony777; February 26th, 2010 at 12:38 AM.

  27. #87
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    I hate to put this online...but i have been invited to a pit which supposedly is a "testing facility" in the US. I will not name the state. I was told there is are authorities checking for drugs and proper id's and you have to have a membership to that states gamebreeders assoc. They say it is completely legal.

  28. #88
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    Quote Originally Posted by beautifulgrl07
    I hate to put this online...but i have been invited to a pit which supposedly is a "testing facility" in the US. I will not name the state. I was told there is are authorities checking for drugs and proper id's and you have to have a membership to that states gamebreeders assoc. They say it is completely legal.
    beautifulgrl07:

    im sorry to say this, but:

    A. COCKFIGHTING (in any "facility"), OR TRANSPORTING COCKFIGHTING TOOLS, IS ILLEGAL in all the 50 states.
    (please see listing of cockfighting laws around the world at postings #42, 46, and 48, at:
    http://sabong.net.ph/forum/showthrea...t=34494&page=2 )

    B. BREEDING OR OWNING CHICKENS, OR TRANSPORTING CHICKENS FROM STATE TO STATE/INDIAN NATIONS OR VICE VERSA, IS PERFECTLY LEGAL. CHICKENS ONLY.

    with respect to legal cockfighting in the indian nations, two (2) things MUST HAPPEN FIRST:

    1. first, an indian tribe MUST FIRST ENACT a "cockfighting" is a "cultural right" of the people of the indian nation, IN THEIR TRIBAL LAW/STATUTE, to make cockfighting legal in such indian lands, and to instantly kill the evil animal rights terrorists. like the puerto ricans, this step an indian nation could easily do on its own thru its tribal legislature.
    http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc...684&pst=870087

    2. second, after item #1 above is completed, such indian tribe MUST THEN OBTAIN a game III cockfighting gambling license in order to make gambling in cockfighting legal in such indian lands for indians and non-indians alike, just like in indian casino gambling, and to make business, money, and jobs to start pouring in.
    once "cockfighting" is their "cultural right"-law is enacted in their tribal law/statute, such indian tribe should be able to obtain such license much more easier.

  29. #89
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    nilodeleon:

    thanks.
    my step by step-ideas for:
    (1) legal cockfighting and (2) legal gambling in cockfighting
    in american indian lands are real, plausible, and would work.

    i know puerto ricans and american indian tribes are "way different". nilodeleon.
    but 'BUSINESS, MONEY, AND JOBS' ARE 'WAY THE SAME' for all peoples.
    in puerto rico, cockfighting generates about $400 million or more per year.
    american indian tribes could generate much more money with legal cockfighting from coast to coast across this vast u.s.a..

    the way to american indian casino gambling was quite complicated.
    do indians have "cultural right" to casino gambling? does it matter? we are enjoying it now.
    legal cockfighting and legal gambling in cockfighting in the indian nations would be complicated too.
    but such complication is not insurmountable, and is well worth it for the business, money, and jobs that would pour in to the indian nations.

    i dont claim any merit, and it doesnt matter if im the first, in between, or the last, to advocate:

    1. first, that american indian tribes could enact a tribal law/statute that: "cockfighting" is a "cultural right" of the people of such indian nations.
    (after such tribal law enactment, COCKFIGHTING WOULD BE LEGAL IN SUCH INDIAN NATIONS, and it would instantly kill the hornet's nest. then, its legal in such indian lands and we should not worry about "injured birds, gaffing paraphernalias and the likes".)

    2. second, such tribes could obtain a class III cockfighting gambling license, in the same manner as in indian casino gambling, so that indians and non-indians alike could enjoy gambling in cockfighting legally.
    with such license, GAMBLING IN COCKFIGHTING WOULD BE LEGAL IN SUCH INDIAN NATIONS.

    then, all such tribes need is just a small covered pit to start with.
    no big start up investments like in casino gambling.

    if you or anyone still have any comment about any of my ideas, you are welcome to CITE the specific idea, so we could discuss it constructively.
    again, thanks for expressing your views.
    cheers.

  30. #90
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    Re: Is COCKFIGHTING LEGAL IN AMERICAN INDIAN RESERVATIONS?

    update.

    to date, to my knowledge, there is still NO FEDERAL OR STATE CASE LAW RULING THAT THE STATES OR THE FEDS HAVE JURISDICTION OVER COCKFIGHTING IN INDIAN LANDS.

    in indian tribes which do not have a clear and explicit tribal law that "cockfighting" is a "cultural right" of the people of such indian nations, in all the cases involving cockfighting in indian lands, the state and the feds are still scared of confronting the key issue in a fair and full blown trial: "whether the states or the feds have jurisdiction over cockfighting in indian lands". for people who get caught in cockfighting in indian lands, what the states and the feds have been doing is making sweet deals for those people to plead guilty to illegal gambling, which is another federal law altogether, and giving such people probation.
    http://www.narf.org/nill/bulletins/c...ted/gachot.pdf

    now, if an american indian tribe would enact a tribal law, that: "cockfighting" is a "cultural right" of the people of such indian tribe, it would be impossible for the states or the feds to win the argument that they have jurisdiction over cockfighting in indian lands, based on existing case law about the sovereignty rights of the indian nations.

    if anyone has any update about case law involving the issue as to "whether the states or the feds have jurisdiction over cockfighting in indian lands", please kindly post and share the case/s here for discussion.
    thanks.

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