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Thread: payton democrats

  
  1. #1
    bukol
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    Question payton democrats

    can someone give me their personal experinces with this fowl and the breeders bobby and buddy payton?do these birds really live up to how they are advertised?and have you guys ever seen them personally fight in the pits and win with these birds?just curious.....i'm interested in these fowl.so called intellegent fighting style.
    bukol

  2. #2
    Senior Member edwin's Avatar
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    Pareng bukol,
    I got mine from Sidney Kinsaul 9 years ago
    and i still like them because they are
    really very smart chicken.The only problem i noticed is their station,always medium which is really a handicap for long knife.But if you use them for hackfights you have a
    very good chance because you can match him with his own size.
    tambak1

  3. #3
    flamebird
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    Originally posted by edwin:
    Pareng bukol,
    I got mine from Sidney Kinsaul 9 years ago
    and i still like them because they are
    really very smart chicken.The only problem i noticed is their station,always medium which is really a handicap for long knife.But if you use them for hackfights you have a
    very good chance because you can match him with his own size.
    tambak1

    medium.....as long as the thigh is long enough, you can still fight in the derby.thanks.

  4. #4
    Rattlesnake
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    Thumbs up

    Originally posted by bukol:
    can someone give me their personal experinces with this fowl and the breeders bobby and buddy payton?do these birds really live up to how they are advertised?and have you guys ever seen them personally fight in the pits and win with these birds?just curious.....i'm interested in these fowl.so called intellegent fighting style.
    bukol
    I have them for almost 20 years now. Love them...



    ------------------
    Snake

  5. #5
    CyberFriends EAA Indians's Avatar
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    Edwin...there is nothing wrong with medium station birds. The qualities to consider are that they are game, has good timing, knows how to fight, consistent style, masuerte (lucky). The longer thighs are better than the long legs because the birds have a better control of the lower legs and knife. If the spur is lower to the ground then it is an added reach/length. Our birds are mostly medium and we still win our share of derbies. We also use the shorter Malaysian knife and we found no handicap whatsoever.

  6. #6
    Edwin Kubojiri
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    Thumbs up

    Hi Edwin!
    I can never get used to talking to someone with the same name as me! LOL! Anyway, yes, high stationed birds do well in LK, and are preffered by most. (Including me.) BUT. Would you believe I have a friend here that CULLS (I am serious) ALL the high stationed stags he gets. I get a lot of good stags from him at culling time! He favors mediun to med/high stationed cocks. His reason for this makes allot of sense, and he DOES WIN most of his fights. In his theory, a high stationed bird does have the reach advatage assuming that he also cuts very well, but an aggressive medium stationed bird will press the fight coming in close to do his work. This forces the high stationed bird to fight close. Since the high stationed cock is used to firing his shots from the outside, in close fighting most of his shots will be placed BEHIND his opponent thus missing the target. I have seen this theory in action, and when matched right, it is very effective. I still favor high stationed cocks, but there is nothing wrong with an aggressive Medium stationed cock in LK.
    YFIS
    Edwin

  7. #7
    killingfields
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    if we take a close look the true thighs of a chicken is set close to the body.the legs is more movable and still covered with feathers.the feet that we say are parts that covered with scale.from the knees that we commonly say but in reality the tarsus or sole up to toes are what makes the feet of a chicken.normally we define feet as beginning from prop toe to the toes that lie flat on the ground.but in birds anatomy the feet is all that are covered with scales.the point is what`s the use of longer feet when most of the hitting power comes from the thighs and legs.that is why we avoid thick ,porous feet bones as they are related to lack of accuracy and slow movements.a thight scaled,high density,pencil like,medium length feet is what we are looking for.they are the ones that deliver mostly those snappy,cracking deadly shots.

  8. #8
    Senior Member edwin's Avatar
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    Hello guys,
    You are all correct about the Payton Democrats that's why i kept them for 9 years because i like the way they fight.The only thing is
    i always have second thought when i prepared them for the derby because of their station.
    They have very good winning percentage in hackfights and help me for the feeds so i love this birds.And thank you Mr.Sidney Kinsaul for this breed.
    tambak1

  9. #9
    Member pennie fabros's Avatar
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    i always win with this payton democrats. they are awesome. they or one of my favorite bloodline.
    pennie


  10. #10
    flamebird
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    correct!!pencil size feet, maninipis ang daliri....we should thank clyde rolan, the late w. mc rae, kit skeens and marion rose. they kept and maintained the line competitive up to this time!

  11. #11
    Member ridgerunner 2000's Avatar
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    Originally posted by flamebird:
    correct!!pencil size feet, maninipis ang daliri....we should thank clyde rolan, the late w. mc rae, kit skeens and marion rose. they kept and maintained the line competitive up to this time!
    I thank Blondy Rolland and William Mcray for my democrats getting my originald cock from dead pile after being fought by Blondie at clear creek Ala. in the early 80s. Before the fight Blondie told of taking his best democrat hen to William, who bred his best democrat cock to the hen. They raised 7 cocks from this mating. William selected this cock to breed asking Blondie to fight him first.The cock had Williams wing band.Great fowl.

    CG

  12. #12
    Member ridgerunner 2000's Avatar
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    Spelling correction Wm McRae

  13. #13
    Joel Catan
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    Payton Democrats

    Hi!
    I got my original Payton Democrats in 1981 from Mr. Sabin Larrazabal of Ormic City, in turn he got his sets of choiced trios from the man himself Mr. Buddy Payton.
    Since then, I came to love these birds and have been breeding them pure. Although, I have to admit that I have to infuse new strains of democrats just to keep the bloodline constanly competitive. I have my share of ups and down when breeding them. My last infusion was a new stag that I directly acquired from Mr. Payton (at Alabama by a trusted friend) in 2000.
    Nevertheless, the results when pitting them were an excellent mark of 90% winnings. Especially when I pit them in derby,s 34 months old or older. Last January's Sinulog Derby, I pitted a 7 year old cock and won without a scatch. Now he is retired and producing more winners (to be) for my pleasure.
    My birds are regular to high station. Burgundy Red to Dark Red with full plumage. Most of the times have streaks of white feathers at the wings and at the tails. Normally come out with white to whitish yellow legs and mostly black spurred. They come 80% peacombs, wide rounded foreheads, short curve beaks and streaks of black at the upper beak. Broad-shouldered and tear-drop shaped body.
    "Extremly intelligent" fighters, "very accurate" and "powerfull" that can take out an opponent in just one blow. Breaks well, comparable with the old-time Hulseys. "Very heady" fighters, they side-sweep and hoop waiting for that one-mistake from their opponents. If an opportunity comes, they let it all out!
    No reason why I have them for a little over 20 years and still breeding them scientifically strong.
    The latest credit I had with these bloodlines was a Double-Champion card at the April 1,2,3&4 3-cock derbly at Century Game Club. Topping 551+ other entries. There were 50 entries who got the top spot. But only my two-entries was the double-champion. Not bad, do you agree?
    Regards,
    Joel

  14. #14
    Senior Member roundhead's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    I think their on sale right now, I saw the ad in the gamecock, $100 for stags and cocks

  15. #15
    cholo a. franco
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    HELLO JOEL

    hello joel,

    can't believe what i'm viewing when you mentioned
    the democrats of mr. sabin larrazabal. during those
    years it was almost impossible to import fowls from
    the u.s.a, but he was able to do so due to his close
    connections with the powers that be then.

    whenever he puts up an entry in a derby in our
    city, i am always awed by the beauty of his roosters,
    always a set of wine red, yellow legged, black spurred,
    white streamers, thick flowing hackle feathers. i thought
    he also has greys that has a rich blood of democrats
    too as they also come in sets, same as the reds in
    features except for the color grey.

    mr sabin larrazabal retired from cocking, he is now
    into rasing the famous ormoc queen pineapples but
    his son jun-jun took over from where his father left.

    bai joel, i thought his son would be happy to know
    that you were able to preserve his dad's democrats
    because he always thought that they were already
    a thing of the past.

    hope to visit your farm when i'm in cebu and once again
    see those fowls that i wish then i could handle even
    in my dreams only.

    cholo

  16. #16
    Joel Catan
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    Cholo Hi,

    It is always a pleasure to hear from Democrat fans.

    My Father the late Mr. Nonilo "Noly" Catan. Together with Mr. Sabin Larrazabal and Mr. Gabby Leyson they were good friends.
    My father received from Mr. Sabin a trio of Democrats as a gift back in 1981. An island-born cock; a island-born hen and an imported hen which came from Mr. Payton. This is where all my Democrats started.

    Yes, Mr. Larrazabal did have the greys but those were known as the Payton-Greys and not Democrats. Mr. Payton's democrats originally came from the breed of Mr. Blondie Rollan. With Mr. Payton's own infusion is better known as the Payton-Democrats.

    DEMOCRATS are GREAT BIRDS couldn't ask for more...

    Jun-jun did take over his fathers gamefowls, it was their handler, "Joel" who have a fair recollection of where the bloodlines go. They still sometimes visit our shop at Junquera St. Cebu City. Since, we still produce and sell Cock Fighting Paraphernilias, even after my father's passing.

    Me, I tried in as much as possible to maitain the lineage. Knowing that someday it will pay dividends. I have had great fights and great results. I'm looking forward to the next season. I only maintain a backyard farm with very limited production. I only fight what I raise myself. I usually cull the hens I don't use and don't give or sell them them to anybody.

    However, you are always welcome to see and appreciate the birds, whenever you're in Cebu. When pitting, I usually use the name "JOEL".

    Rgds,
    Joel

  17. #17
    Senior Member
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    my friend goes under chief’s jail birds has had success with his
    democrats for a long time and i dont see any station problem
    with his pure ones and for his crossed ones they have great station.... i have some of these and i like them very well
    and they cross great..... they never have a problem with selling them if you have seem them you would know why.....

    cigar

  18. #18
    cholo a. franco
    Guest
    hello joel,

    thanks for the kind invitation to see your fowls.

    hope that i could once again see those great

    democrats when i visit my teens in cebu and

    learn more from you on how you were able to

    maintain those lines.

    how are they as stags ? you mentioned that they

    are at their best at 3 yrs or more.

    may i know how i could get in touch with you?

    would really love to hear and see more of the

    democrats from you.


    Cholo
    0919-568=5757

  19. #19
    CyberFriends shanebo's Avatar
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    Joel Entry

    Good day to all,
    The Joel Entry performed very well in that derby. I was there in the cock house with Raul(rebel),our entry name Red Cel Jun Ent, we had 2 entries in that derby. Our first entry was 1 of the 50 champions and the 2nd entry did not perform well that night. Joel, I did not know the breed of bird you were fighting but they did fight very smart. I think you had one fight a few fights before us and then you fought right after our money fight. If I am not mistaken your last fight was a older Grey bird. I was the American with Raul gaffing the birds. It is good to see people still using the Democrat blood, as most people in the PI think they are a breed from the past. There is also a member here that goes by Swallow that has been fighting Democrats for sometime also. Anyway, hope to see you at Sinulog Derby this year, if work permits. Take care and good luck.

  20. #20
    Member gensoriano's Avatar
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    Prens...

    Way back in the 80s and 90's, this line banners Freddie Ducepec's "Lucky Strike" farm (Fairview). I understand he already moved to Batangas. I wonder if he still got it?

    gensoriano

  21. #21
    Senior Member hammertime's Avatar
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  22. #22
    Joel Catan
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    Payton Democrats

    Mr. TonyDel,

    I'm sure your birds are great and backed by its performances.

    However, my birds (Democrats) is a fruit of love. I have my birds as a hobby and over 20 years of pain-staking sective breeding to keep the bloodline as pure and original as it can get.

    My originals came from Mr. "Buddy" Payton himself. Correct me if I'm wrong, "Bobby" is his son. I got mine from the original master himself. Though, I'm breeding them locally, I'm keeping them pure all the way.

    Thanks,
    Joel

  23. #23
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    Democrats , still my idol !

    Hello Joel

    I am so glad to know Domocrats is still competive in today`s tough circumstance .
    I believe Democrats is very interesting bloodline as breeding material against kingdom of Sweater
    I do not give up of looking for real Democrats .
    Democrats is still my idol and always .

    Cardinal Kelso / Democrats , if I have them .

    masao

  24. #24
    Senior Member roundhead's Avatar
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    Question

    hi Democrat fans!

    what is the make-up of the democrats? is this a claret or kelso blend or a hatch line(hoskins)?

    thanks

  25. #25
    Member gensoriano's Avatar
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    Hatch Claret...

    :hippie:


    gensoriano

  26. #26
    tulaynabuhangin
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    Wow! nice post, I'm using a 1/4 or 1/8 blood of democract cross to my lemon its a real lemon gwapo nice looking fowl.

  27. #27
    james wolf
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    Ridgerunner has democrat (hatch/claret), crosses with his kelso,
    calls the cross ridgerunner reds

  28. #28
    Joel Catan
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    Democrats

    Gentlemen,

    It is no secret that the Democrats were originated by Mr. Blondie Rollan together with Mr. William McRae at their farm in Alabama. This was way back in the early 60's.

    Both gentlemen being avid Democratic Party supporters and a great fan of the late JFK (when JFK made it as President of the country). So they named the new breed as it is known today as the DEMOCRATS.

    The Bloodline came from a perfect four-way cross(one may only get this chance, once in his lifetime). Though, Mr. Rollan never quite told anybody what were the composition bloodlines he used. But a lot of expert and calculated speculations showed that Democarats came from Three Types of Hatch Bloodine and a Claret as base.

    Enjoy!!!
    Joel:rbounce:

    PS: Crossing Democrats with Lemons used to produced me good results. Buy crossing them with Out and Out Kelso's were Best for Philippine Knife Fights. I have them crossed also with the E.R. Hulsey Golds too... with better agility. Also crossed them with the McRae Black Hatch.... for better speed. Either way Democrats cross well with almost any good bloodlines. You are only limited to your imagination and the style you want. This just goes to show that the Democrat is a very versatile and superior bloodline.

  29. #29
    Joel Catan
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    Democrats

    Gentlemen,

    With that said... Mr. Buddy Payton being a good friend of the late Mr. Blondie Rollan got his Democrats from him.

    Mr. Payton then did his own infusion and refinements to the bloodline, then struct gold! Mr. Payton's birds were a lot smarter and fights headier with lots of power to spare. The birds can kill even during sparring and using leather safety gloves. Mr. Payton takes great pride of his Democrats of not being a bill-holder.

    A story in Cebu circulates that a group of Cebuano Cockers went to Mr. Payton's farm in the mid-80's and tried to hussle My Mr. Payton for a low price for his birds. These cockers told Mr. Payton that his Democrats were bill-holding during their pittings at Cebu circuits.

    Aggrevated and without uttering a word, Mr. Payton led these guys to a line of individual fly-pens filled with cocks. He took one bird from the first pen and started to throw that bird from one pen to the other until the bird died fighting.

    Mr. Payton then turned to his guests (who were overwhelmingly amazed) and asked "did you see my bird bill-hold?". Then Mr. Payton threw the guys out of his property. End of story.

    You need to have a lot of passion for these birds to know these things. I am a hobbiest and my Hobby is breeding the Democrat bloodline pure.


    Have fun!!!
    Joel :rbounce:

  30. #30
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    gensoriano

    Ferdie Ducefec had only few left of his democrat and he's more on breeding his B. Payton blue face hatch. I still have his blue face acquired five years ago and I like there gameness.

    Yfis,
    BrilleSeeker

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