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Thread: Speed over power or power over speed how u breed?

  
  1. #1
    Senior Member sucess gamefarm's Avatar
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    Speed over power or power over speed how u breed?

    Which way works best for you and what lines are you're speed an power this is open for S/K an L/K. an any other methods you us in breeding thanks.

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    Member Ronking_GF's Avatar
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    Re: Speed over power or power over speed how u breed?

    Quote Originally Posted by sucess gamefarm View Post
    Which way works best for you and what lines are you're speed an power this is open for S/K an L/K. an any other methods you us in breeding thanks.

    speed is always handy for a bird to have as a trait...but if it lacks cut and timing then speed is useless and is always open for a counterpunch...

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    Re: Speed over power or power over speed how u breed?

    Mr. Hugh Lee Norman had two things he preach to me was power cock over speed hens and if they can't cut they can't win, when I think I am knowgable as Mr. Norman I may contridict it but not now.

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    Senior Member slipspur's Avatar
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    Re: Speed over power or power over speed how u breed?

    In my opinion Hugh Norman was one of the best breeders of all time & I try follow his methods myself... I like to use the speed hens in my crosses... but... if I have the fowl to do it, I like to try them both ways... you just never know.

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    Senior Member BlackhammerFarm's Avatar
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    Re: Speed over power or power over speed how u breed?

    there are always exceptions in anything with gamefowl, there are what you call a rule of thumb theory's that majority of the time is correct, take this for example, when grading asils, the theory is take the asil cock over the speed american hens, but I breed a power american cock over a pure rampuri asil hen and the offspring showed just like a power cock crossed over a speed hen,

    But when I breed a buckhaws speed brownred over a marion rose power hen, my offspring was still slow power, so there are always exceptions in the crossing

    But as a rule of thumb as more accurate I would also suggest power cock over speed hen

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    Senior Member Roberts44903's Avatar
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    Re: Speed over power or power over speed how u breed?

    To me it depends on the individual brood cock and brood hens. If the said brood cock is proven to be very accurate cutter with good speed well I would use him over power hens. The reason I say this is my opinion is the stags cutting cutting and accuracy from brood cock and style from brood hen. The best cross I ever made was a speed cock over a power hen. I won around 95% with them. I let the speed blood get away from me and no longer have it. I have done very good with Hatch cocks bred to blue hens in the past. When breeding you to look at everything. From speed, accuracy, power and what hen or cock has the traits you want. I have seen accurate power cocks that cross great over speedy hens. Just remember keep records and look at the results. You get surprised by what you find.

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    Re: Speed over power or power over speed how u breed?

    I was always under the impression that power over speed. This is a general rule, but if you expand on that. I believe this rule was created because most generally the power was not as athletic as speed. The reason that was the rule is your hens will pass on the what you most want when you cross to your stags.

    Now I have always played by this rule and why I dont know. I not saying its fact but like some much in this very few go outside of the box... creature of habits we are. But there is alot to be said by the old timers and the things passed down the the ages.

    Power over speed or Power over athletic ability

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    Member tntbundy's Avatar
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    Re: Speed over power or power over speed how u breed?

    A smart fast bird over a powerful one works for me , in breeding or show...

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    Re: Speed over power or power over speed how u breed?

    Quote Originally Posted by supremo54 View Post
    they used to preach the old method of power cock over speed hens
    when the time the power cock had not enough speed
    but nowadays you see a lot of power fowl with speed
    that we try breeding them to henside
    and the result is good for longknife
    you gotta try it to know it
    that's it,,
    Try it to know it.
    Like a box of chocolate,,,(Forrest Gump)

  16. #10
    Senior Member sucess gamefarm's Avatar
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    Re: Speed over power or power over speed how u breed?

    My Avatar is is power an speed over a blk pullet

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    Re: Speed over power or power over speed how u breed?

    I've never considered speed in my matings. I like to breed cut over power and gameness. More specifically, a superb cutting, physically sound, beautifully feathered, proven cock (not necessarily pure) over pure power, bitter game hens. I've done it other ways too but I always do it in terms of adding cut to power. Never considered speed, fighting ability is much more important imho.

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    Senior Member EXODIA's Avatar
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    Re: Speed over power or power over speed how u breed?

    Speen and cutting for me. What I obserb in LK knife who ever has the quickest draw wins mostly of the fight. It don't need to be high breaker as long as they clip them before they go up and clip them going down. Focus on the wing power of your fowl they will give you speed and agility and be able to do there full potential with gracefulness.

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    Senior Member loisbugoy's Avatar
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    Re: Speed over power or power over speed how u breed?

    Can there be ACCURATE, SPEED over POWER. I see a rooster that gauge and wait the first move of he's opponent. Once he's opponent comes in, he top the opponent with tremendous speed and power that shock the opponent in first buckle.

    http://tonioromulo.multiply.com/vide...rial_2nd_fight

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    Member lkystrk's Avatar
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    Re: Speed over power or power over speed how u breed?

    i like to try it both ways then there is never a doubt that you made a mistake sometimes its real close both ways.

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    Re: Speed over power or power over speed how u breed?

    Quote Originally Posted by supremo54 View Post
    speed is one of the basic component of fighting ability.
    Yes, but it is only one component. I give a lot more importance to accuracy and timing, the ability to reach their opponent and hit target and not the air. Avoiding damage while delivering is important to me also. My birds have good speed, probably why I've never cared about trying to improve it. But they are definitely not blazing fast. I show in the S/K btw. I'll try to upload a couple of my birds in action and show what I mean.

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    Re: Speed over power or power over speed how u breed?

    For me the first thing is they must be accurate both the hen and rooster. I prefer speed over power but will do both.

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    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Speed over power or power over speed how u breed?

    Quote Originally Posted by sucess gamefarm View Post
    Which way works best for you and what lines are you're speed an power this is open for S/K an L/K. an any other methods you us in breeding thanks.
    Depends on the family of fowl you are breeding. Both ways can work.

  27. #18
    Member chambaleleng's Avatar
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    Re: Speed over power or power over speed how u breed?

    in the LK speed and power are needed but it is the cutting ability that counts more.

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    Senior Member jam671's Avatar
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    Re: Speed over power or power over speed how u breed?

    They can have all the speed and power, but if they dont have any timing, then it is all given to lady luck if they can land the deadly hits.

    Best is just to try breeding both ways and see which ones work for you. Not all breeds are compatible. Some may be speed over power and some power over speed. If the nick, then you got a good pair. If not, try another rooster or try another hen. After all this, you will need to test and see which ones have both speed, power, ability, and timing. These are the ones to breed for.

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    Member james1953's Avatar
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    Re: Speed over power or power over speed how u breed?

    Power over the action hen, it works more to my liking,

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    Senior Member silver2dmoon's Avatar
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    Re: Speed over power or power over speed how u breed?

    Quote Originally Posted by slipspur View Post
    In my opinion Hugh Norman was one of the best breeders of all time & I try follow his methods myself... I like to use the speed hens in my crosses... but... if I have the fowl to do it, I like to try them both ways... you just never know.
    AMEN TO THAT....

    I was just about to post it until I read your post slip....

    once again... "there is no shortcut to breeding".

    I will do both sides until proven for the particular broodpair.

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    Senior Member CARL94's Avatar
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    Re: Speed over power or power over speed how u breed?

    =======timing can defeat speed=========

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    Senior Member 73maagap's Avatar
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    Re: Speed over power or power over speed how u breed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grillo View Post
    I've never considered speed in my matings. I like to breed cut over power and gameness. More specifically, a superb cutting, physically sound, beautifully feathered, proven cock (not necessarily pure) over pure power, bitter game hens. I've done it other ways too but I always do it in terms of adding cut to power. Never considered speed, fighting ability is much more important imho.

    i go with you bro. speed is only an extra but your basic fowl should have cutting. in the long knife, all you need is the first buckle to win. that can only be accomplished with superb cutting. that is why i look for a broodcock with multiple wins that won in one buckle. we have such a line that we maintained since 30 yrs ago and still winning with them. they just look at the opponent when they are down after one fly but they can go drag if necessary.

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    Senior Member CARL94's Avatar
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    Re: Speed over power or power over speed how u breed?

    Quote Originally Posted by supremo54 View Post
    you need enough speed to execute a well timed shot
    you have an elusive moving target
    Bro Edwin, a cock with a good timing can out-quick a speedy cock...

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  40. #25
    Banned grey/dom's Avatar
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    Re: Speed over power or power over speed how u breed?

    i saw power cocks with a long shot wins...it always amazed me...i saw speed cocks...just so fast for their own good...can not kill..only to be stopped by one power punch...

    i say power over speed...cocks or hens...only the breeder knows where he gets them...

    i saw one speeddy black that so fast that hit the opponent all the wounds...only beaten when he bites the knife of the other rooster thinking it was the latters tail...

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    Re: Speed over power or power over speed how u breed?

    Based on the actual fight last Jan. 2 at Sta. Monica, our 3/4 Sweater 1/4 YLH was 10-6 dehado against a Power bull stag. Speed made the first several hits on his opponent, however before the opponent died he made just one Accurate Power Blow hitting Speed at the back. Luckily Speed pecked twice and won the fight before he died at the pit.

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    Senior Member Bty Hunter's Avatar
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    Re: Speed over power or power over speed how u breed?

    In the old Pitmaster site , breeders had been saying that it should be speed over power. But those breeders are mostly from here in the US. Presumably breeding for gaff and short knife fowls?? I guess speed for the initial onslaught of offense , bottom power if the fight goes on drag and i guess more often than not they do go on drag..
    Then at the same time i've been watching the earlier eipsodes of WSD , where its noticeable when they post the the breed name its the power over speed that most breeders in PI follows.. Like Hatch-Roundhead crosses. I suppose it has something to do with how the Long knife weapon works, We like our LK roosters to hit first and preferably inflict mortal damage to his opponent on first contact. So Power punch over speed. Just my 2 cents.

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    Member TEAM REDFIRE's Avatar
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    Re: Speed over power or power over speed how u breed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bty Hunter View Post
    In the old Pitmaster site , breeders had been saying that it should be speed over power. But those breeders are mostly from here in the US. Presumably breeding for gaff and short knife fowls?? I guess speed for the initial onslaught of offense , bottom power if the fight goes on drag and i guess more often than not they do go on drag..
    Then at the same time i've been watching the earlier eipsodes of WSD , where its noticeable when they post the the breed name its the power over speed that most breeders in PI follows.. Like Hatch-Roundhead crosses. I suppose it has something to do with how the Long knife weapon works, We like our LK roosters to hit first and preferably inflict mortal damage to his opponent on first contact. So Power punch over speed. Just my 2 cents.
    QUOTE=Bty Hunter;3446452]In the old Pitmaster site , breeders had been saying that it should be speed over power. But those breeders are mostly from here in the US. Presumably breeding for gaff and short knife fowls?? I guess speed for the initial onslaught of offense , bottom power if the fight goes on drag and i guess more often than not they do go on drag..
    Then at the same time i've been watching the earlier eipsodes of WSD , where its noticeable when they post the the breed name its the power over speed that most breeders in PI follows.. Like Hatch-Roundhead crosses. I suppose it has something to do with how the Long knife weapon works, We like our LK roosters to hit first and preferably inflict mortal damage to his opponent on first contact. So Power punch over speed. Just my 2 cents.[/QUOTE]

  47. #29
    Member joebertm's Avatar
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    Re: Speed over power or power over speed how u breed?

    Quote Originally Posted by sucess gamefarm View Post
    Which way works best for you and what lines are you're speed an power this is open for S/K an L/K. an any other methods you us in breeding thanks.
    Power: http://joebertm.multiply.com/photos/.../Broodfowls#14
    Over Speed: http://joebertm.multiply.com/photos/.../Broodfowls#16

    Equals: http://joebertm.multiply.com/photos/...ecember_2008#5

    But I guess the opponent made the mistake of breeding speed over speed. lol.
    http://joebertm.multiply.com/video/item/61/asilfyt1.mpg

    just for fun guys.

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    Re: Speed over power or power over speed how u breed?

    I believe it just depends on the birds an what ur gona use them for. Whether it be gaff or LK or SK.

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