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Thread: old hens... worth to breed???

  
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    Senior Member BILLABONG's Avatar
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    old hens... worth to breed???

    need your input guys! on fact and myth few of my buddies are selling there 3-4yrs old hens saying females are no good any more when they are at this age but most of them do lay 10-13 eggs. im planning to take them but could not decide yet until i get off from this old beliefs...

    are you breeding your old hens?

    thx Franz

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    Member Hawaiian Breed's Avatar
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    Re: old hens... worth to breed???

    I do breed as long as they lay eggs. My mentor taught me not to even start breeding tell a hen is 2 years old, So by that you would only breed for 2 years. I dont think so. What would change in 2 year. To me DNA is DNA. Just my 2 cents.

    HB

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    Senior Member BILLABONG's Avatar
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    Re: old hens... worth to breed???

    most of this guys complained about off spring vigor and weak chicks it could also be from feeding? i dont really know...

    i my self sat and ride with the same wagon of this belief hehehe but i need to see the other side of the rainbow maybe the gold is on that side ...

    more inputs would help...

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    Member el.kora's Avatar
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    Re: old hens... worth to breed???

    3 to 4 year old hens are not that old, I have a 9 yr old bates grey hen that lays about 28 eggs a year. But I do use them till about 6yrs with a young stag of course, and still through Aces.

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    Senior Member ubb6793's Avatar
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    Re: old hens... worth to breed???

    Some says that to produce good station roosters, you need to use younger females. Don't know if its true.

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    Member MILLPOND's Avatar
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    Re: old hens... worth to breed???

    Quote Originally Posted by BILLABONG View Post
    need your input guys! on fact and myth few of my buddies are selling there 3-4yrs old hens saying females are no good any more when they are at this age but most of them do lay 10-13 eggs. im planning to take them but could not decide yet until i get off from this old beliefs...

    are you breeding your old hens?

    thx Franz
    I am breeding my old hens .... my best producers are old hens ..how old will change from hen
    to hen ... When you find a good producer why stop breeding her till her offspring decline ..
    You test the stags keep excellent fight records just like breeding records and watch for
    the decline Two of my best hens died ten or eleven years old still in the brood pen never a
    problem with heir stags .. What if I stop at three or four years a waste because it took six
    breeding seasons to breed and find a hen that produce as good in the same family {bloodline} Even full sisters never produced as good . I don't just breed old hens though
    If their stags are not good try with several good cocks If no good results out they go
    no mater what age ...

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    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: old hens... worth to breed???

    I think there are pros and cons to both young and old females. What makes me rethink this whole thing is something my father always says, but rarely does, which is you MUST ALWAYS IMPROVE YOUR FOWL EVERY YEAR. That said, I believe this can only be done with younger proven fowl. A 10 year old ace cock is a ace a decade ago. NOT TODAY. Same for a top producing hen.

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    Member MILLPOND's Avatar
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    Re: old hens... worth to breed???

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    I think there are pros and cons to both young and old females. What makes me rethink this whole thing is something my father always says, but rarely does, which is you MUST ALWAYS IMPROVE YOUR FOWL EVERY YEAR. That said, I believe this can only be done with younger proven fowl. A 10 year old ace cock is a ace a decade ago. NOT TODAY. Same for a top producing hen.


    I was always taught and believe that the proof is in the pit .. If the two or three year old hens
    are not producing better for several breeding seasons why not continue to breed the old hen..
    bred the best to the best and forget the rest it's an old saying but still rings with the truth...
    besides I test every mating not ten years ago just my opinion YFIS EDDIE

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    Senior Member 73maagap's Avatar
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    Re: old hens... worth to breed???

    Quote Originally Posted by el.kora View Post
    3 to 4 year old hens are not that old, I have a 9 yr old bates grey hen that lays about 28 eggs a year. But I do use them till about 6yrs with a young stag of course, and still through Aces.

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    Member MILLPOND's Avatar
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    Re: old hens... worth to breed???

    do yall really believe that when the great breeders of this sport the famous breeders found
    that golden hen they quit breeding her because of a year number that someone quoted them
    just to bred a younger hen .... how about the good breeders of today ask them.....

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    Re: old hens... worth to breed???

    Quote Originally Posted by BILLABONG View Post
    need your input guys! on fact and myth few of my buddies are selling there 3-4yrs old hens saying females are no good any more when they are at this age but most of them do lay 10-13 eggs. im planning to take them but could not decide yet until i get off from this old beliefs...

    are you breeding your old hens?

    thx Franz
    Hens as long as still dropping eggs are still considered good. Now when they set on the eggs and don't hatch most of them then I stop using them to set and use a incubator. But still try to get as much out of them....lol but maintenance on the chicks from the first day is the most important. So I say if they're good blood get it and start producing those bombs that will suits your style. Good luck and God Bless

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    Re: old hens... worth to breed???

    Quote Originally Posted by babydin View Post
    Hens as long as still dropping eggs are still considered good. Now when they set on the eggs and don't hatch most of them then I stop using them to set and use a incubator. But still try to get as much out of them....lol but maintenance on the chicks from the first day is the most important. So I say if they're good blood get it and start producing those bombs that will suits your style. Good luck and God Bless
    i couldnt said it better...amen to that

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    Senior Member Roberts44903's Avatar
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    Re: old hens... worth to breed???

    I have used hens as old as 16 years old. The trick is when a hen gets about 8 or 9 she needs to bred by young rooster. I normally use one that is well bred that is around 8-12 months old then. Had a old pair of hatch chickens when I was younger they was about 14 years old kept them together they hatched healthy chicks. I have seen them old hens be better momma then the younger ones. I never let any fowl go just because they was to old. DNA is DNA age will not change it. I got hens I am using that is 10 years old right now she throws real good birds.

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    Re: old hens... worth to breed???

    after each breeding season i cull the majority of my hens that are 4 yrs old (so i breed very few5 yr old hens), as a hen gets older the win% in the offspring goes down. each breeding season i keep between 50 & 100 pullets. my dec born pullets will be in the broodpen next breeding season. at the same time i'll cull at 600 pullets, prob more.

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    Re: old hens... worth to breed???

    Yes Roberts44903 is right I suggest on a older hen to use a brood stag and on a older brood cock I would put him over a younger hen. But for me the best would be if both are about 2 years it shows you their full potential as producing stock. But I tend to use at times some young ones just to try to get as much out of them as I can. Remember there's only 2 things that can happen when breeding 1) it'll be better and 2) it'll be more ****ty ... Lol excuse my language billabong remember if the bloods Nick up right you will produce aces. And the only way to find out is to try so don't debate to long set you mine on what you are trying to produce and look at both families and if you feel that they both come from families that are proven and also feel that the Nick might match I say jump on it. God Bless

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    Re: old hens... worth to breed???

    Quote Originally Posted by BILLABONG View Post
    need your input guys! on fact and myth few of my buddies are selling there 3-4yrs old hens saying females are no good any more when they are at this age but most of them do lay 10-13 eggs. im planning to take them but could not decide yet until i get off from this old beliefs...

    are you breeding your old hens?

    thx Franz
    if i were u i will take it.

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    Member Bricks's Avatar
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    Re: old hens... worth to breed???

    [QUOTE=BILLABONG;3478683]need your input guys! on fact and myth few of my buddies are selling there 3-4yrs old hens saying females are no good ]

    I breed my old hens and cocks until they have the ability to produce and I still do to date. When hens are always on the pen, no matter how wide it is, they simply become lazy to lay eggs and even have reduced egg laying capacity. What I do is free them in the range to be able to eat insects and other natural nutrients that they can get. I don't also believe that the winning percentage of the offsprings start to wane or go down. If the bloodline is a winning one, it will always be even if the percentage is very small when crossed to other bloodlines. Don't tell me that the winning genes of your bloodline will change if you have been consistently maintaining it. What will change most probably are their stationing most specially if they are already deeply inbred, thus, you need to freshen up a bit your line by linebreeding. I once had a 12-year old Miner Blue broodhen that was very dominant. If you set her loose, within a minute, she would already be fighting with younger hens and never did she quit. But she still continued to lay eggs and produced winners for me. There are times that when she comes down from the nest to eat, she couldn't fly back anymore to the nest due to old age that I have to carry her and put her back to the nest. At her age, she was still a good mother to her chicks and very protective. That's how I care for my old fowls. I never cull them but I'd rather wait for them to die naturally. They served me best so I have to give them also what they truely deserve......

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    Re: old hens... worth to breed???

    keep records, you will find that as yr hen gets older the win% of the offspring goes down, this is one of the advantages of singlemating. we had a pen couple yrs, pen 7, offspring all won, the next season the offspring weren't that good, same broodcock (3yr lemon), the hen was imported which was why i didn' tcull it when it was 4 or 5, i learned my lesson. unless the hen's offspring have an outstanding record or it is of value to the farm, i'll cull it. todays feed prices i can't afford to keep fowl i don't use, culling is absolutely necessary, besides my farm would be over crowded, then i have a health & bacteria problem. old breeder told me about the hens win %, proved he was right for the majority of the hens.

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    Senior Member lexlavin32's Avatar
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    Re: old hens... worth to breed???

    Quote Originally Posted by BILLABONG View Post
    need your input guys! on fact and myth few of my buddies are selling there 3-4yrs old hens saying females are no good any more when they are at this age but most of them do lay 10-13 eggs. im planning to take them but could not decide yet until i get off from this old beliefs...

    are you breeding your old hens?

    thx Franz
    to see is to believe, not all hens throws the same offspring season in and season out, you`ll never know what you`ll get until you try, there is that universal belief in gamefowl breeding that according to old school older broodhens must be paired with younger broodcocks to invigorate declining genetic potential of broodhens past their productive age, but considering that different strains have different characteristics, so if the said broodhens are of solid foundation, they may be worth a try... invest !!!

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    Forum Moderator heartthrob's Avatar
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    Re: old hens... worth to breed???

    Quote Originally Posted by kali ises View Post
    after each breeding season i cull the majority of my hens that are 4 yrs old (so i breed very few5 yr old hens), as a hen gets older the win% in the offspring goes down. each breeding season i keep between 50 & 100 pullets. my dec born pullets will be in the broodpen next breeding season. at the same time i'll cull at 600 pullets, prob more.

    i kind of agree with this statement,,,as they get older,,,the offsprings get smaller & weaker,,,the laying performance also suffers,,,fertility drops,,,

    do you know that a hen can only lay so much?

    nene abello culls his hens on its 3rd season.

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    Senior Member BILLABONG's Avatar
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    Re: old hens... worth to breed???

    thank you all and ill take the hens hehehe...

    gilmore, ylw leg hatch, mclean, melsims black and givens black/hatch

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    Senior Member j007's Avatar
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    Re: old hens... worth to breed???

    I think it depends on the hen I got a 11 year old 1/2 Brownred x 1/2Asil hen still produces winners here last year or two her clutches got a little smaller but long as she produces gonna breed her. I bred her back to a son last couple breeding seasons and kept some pullets off her--turned out the stags off that breeding are really looking good got a couple of the cocks in the lineup to show this year--Jim

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    Senior Member ubb6793's Avatar
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    Re: old hens... worth to breed???

    The question now is why are they selling the 3-4 year old proven hens if they know they are still producing good roosters? ....oh well, perhaps they found better hens.

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    Re: old hens... worth to breed???

    not really, breeding season is getting to the end, just making room for next yrs hens. come march i'll cull 30 or so hens, prob a few broodcocks as well.

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    Senior Member ubb6793's Avatar
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    Re: old hens... worth to breed???

    Quote Originally Posted by kali ises View Post
    not really, breeding season is getting to the end, just making room for next yrs hens. come march i'll cull 30 or so hens, prob a few broodcocks as well.
    Sir, do you dispose/cull 3-4 year old hens/broodcocks even if they are producing aces? If so, I would like to buy mel simms black hens/broodcock from you this coming March sir.

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    Re: old hens... worth to breed???

    billabong, good decision to buy the hens

    sometimes its better to hang on and breed old hens...why other breeders dispose them is their choice. I have a good black hen that has produced winners for me that i have been breeding for the past 5 years and now have come up with a 15/16 line. she still produces good winning stags and takes care of the chicks even better each year. just my opinion anyway...

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    Member drpwarriors's Avatar
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    Re: old hens... worth to breed???

    as long as the hen produces healthy offsprings why not?

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    Re: old hens... worth to breed???

    Quote Originally Posted by kali ises View Post
    not really, breeding season is getting to the end, just making room for next yrs hens. come march i'll cull 30 or so hens, prob a few broodcocks as well.
    sir, do you mind sharing those culls to the masses?

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    Senior Member BILLABONG's Avatar
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    Re: old hens... worth to breed???

    Quote Originally Posted by paullimson View Post
    billabong, good decision to buy the hens

    sometimes its better to hang on and breed old hens...why other breeders dispose them is their choice. I have a good black hen that has produced winners for me that i have been breeding for the past 5 years and now have come up with a 15/16 line. she still produces good winning stags and takes care of the chicks even better each year. just my opinion anyway...
    thx... if it wasnt for the rest of the guys here i could have turn my back on them hehehe...

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    Senior Member BILLABONG's Avatar
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    Re: old hens... worth to breed???

    Quote Originally Posted by ubb6793 View Post
    The question now is why are they selling the 3-4 year old proven hens if they know they are still producing good roosters? ....oh well, perhaps they found better hens.
    the young handler wanted to use the inbreed pullets for next season breeding just like my ignorance he dont have any knowledge about hens

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