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Thread: Conditioning tips for beginners?

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    Conditioning tips for beginners?

    This question is intended for people who have been in the sport at least twenty years or so. I was reading several keep methods today and it seems that they are very unclear. They don't mention the exact time of day that you should do certain things with the roosters, and the feed composition and feeding is really unclear. What are top priority actions when preparing our feathered warriors? Also is the keep different for the LK and gaff...etc. How do you know which weapon your fowl should be pitted with or judge fighting styles? How do you tell when a rooster is on point? I personally feel that withholding moisture from the fowl could be detrimental. As you can tell I'm a newbie to this world and any info would be great. Please be as detailed in your replies as possible. Good day friends.

    KentuckyCocker1


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    Member orientexpress's Avatar
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    Re: Conditioning tips for beginners?

    damn it, underqualified only 15 yrs here, and still full of questions myself. Try using the search key at top there are many threads on here about pointing, keeps, Brownred Kelso had some great ones too.
    Good healthy fowl would be a top priority for me. Time to feed and time to condition in a keep can only be done by you and your schedule.

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    Senior Member Camarines's Avatar
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    Re: Conditioning tips for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by orientexpress View Post
    damn it, underqualified only 15 yrs here, and still full of questions myself. Try using the search key at top there are many threads on here about pointing, keeps, brownred kelso had some great ones too.
    Good healthy fowl would be a top priority for me. Time to feed and time to condition in a keep can only be done by you and your schedule.
    i agree with this statement!!!

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    Re: Conditioning tips for beginners?

    I think if we all should agree, HEALTH would have to be number one,,,,after that i have come with GAMENESS,,,,,,,,following that would be two things you have to marry up,,,,,,,classification and conformation,,,,,at this point i have to start asking where am i going,, what am i doing,,,,,,,,,,,some shows require differant contestants,,,,,,,the LK,,,there are cocks that get position and have the uncanny knack to catch one on the way up,,,,an with the selection process if you're pickin through,,say 100 cocks and you ain't got a handfull of these you just don't need to play in that heel......
    All the other weapons vary but not to the extreme of that LK,,,,,,,,gaff you can tade some licks and still win,,,,,,gaff you can take more than you cut an still win,,,,,,,,,the SK,, you got to cut really well and take too,, to win,,,,,that's thing with all SK,,, everybody will usually cut you,,,,,,,,,,,,short heel,,,,,you've really got to cut precise "pointing heels" with authority is the name of the game,,,,,,,ironically the short heel was the only weapon i never win a derby in,,,,,,came close several times,,,1 fight out or 1/2 fight out every time i went,,, but never a winner..... Whatever feed you're working with,,,,if your cocks aren't looking at the water everyday, you're not on the right path,,,,you have to watch "fevers" the last few days,,,if they are hot in the feet or their ole heads hot,, you better drop back and punt,,,,run you a weeks feed back on the cocks and hit the next one.....
    Last edited by brownred kelso; February 21st, 2011 at 12:41 AM.

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    Member Bazooka Joe's Avatar
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    Re: Conditioning tips for beginners?

    I've been in the sport 12 years and i think that good fowl should be able to get it done in all weapons...as for when i bird is on point you want his dropping to be round not too moist and not to dry just right....his head will be bright red and when you pick him up and walk with him his head should be popping back and forth, i don't liek them to be running back and forth in the cage i liek them to stand there and be allert and aware of everything doing on around them, they need to be cocky and crowing as to say he is ready to challenge every bird in his area/on the farm...to get them like that you have to start with a healthy bird that has been cared for 24/7 365...feed the best feed you can get ahold of and always given cool clean water and have acces to green grass...some people like to hand work and some like to let the bird condition them selfs both can be done with great sucess but it also depends on your fowl, some take better to different styles of conditoning...i like to use flypens,leg ties,scratch pens and rest stalls and rotate multiple times a day, but a little hand work will them them used to you and it is a good way to bond with your gladiator....give fresh fruits and vegtables during the keep and a lil meat helps too...treat them like you would want to be treated if you where gettin ready for a fight, but a fight for you life

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    Senior Member Mudflop's Avatar
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    Re: Conditioning tips for beginners?

    I've been raising, competing, traveling roosters for over 40 years. Different families of fowl require different methods. Yes, the first rule is to keep them healthy but to get them right you must know your rooster. Some families don't need much table work and could compete favorably by simple rotation, yet some families must be worked in order to hydrate their dark muscles. Some families will not hold the moisture if they are not worked.

    One of the biggest mistakes I have seen in my area is folks crap out their roosters on the day of the show on grass and let them pick and peck on the grass. Seems they don't want their rooster empty and on point not to mention the micro-organism that they pick up. It only takes 72 hours for worm ova to hatch, so it is nearly impossible to keep them clean and it is a constant chore. If you got to crap them out before showing, make sure your crap board or mat is cleaned and disinfected. A good disinfectant is Oxine-AH otherwise clorox with water works well. Clean your stalls, clean your cups, clean your carry cases. A good idea is to clean your rooster also after showing as he could pick up some nasty stuff and bring it home to the flock.
    Last edited by Mudflop; February 21st, 2011 at 11:41 AM.

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    Senior Member emplong's Avatar
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    Re: Conditioning tips for beginners?

    wow, not qualified, im a begginers only

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    Re: Conditioning tips for beginners?

    nice topic keep it up im learning a lot.are there any signs that we can see if our fowls are ready for battle?

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    Senior Member jam671's Avatar
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    Re: Conditioning tips for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by jetmatic View Post
    nice topic keep it up im learning a lot.are there any signs that we can see if our fowls are ready for battle?
    Some signs are their attitude, They must have a high pride and wanting to fight. When you face them on the ground, they should be pulling hard throwing dirt backwards like they are peeling out. They should be all perky and red headed. Their legs should be moving a lot when you hold them like they are air walking. That is the attitude part, if your on point, you will be ready to rumble, if not, they will not have the attitude of wanting to rumble. If you face them and they dont go forward, but turn to their side, then ??
    should be on your mind as well.

    I dont have 20 years of experience, but i also think it dont need 20 years to learn the art of sabong. Unless your kind of slow in the brain.

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    Member gcardinal03's Avatar
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    Re: Conditioning tips for beginners?

    Good tips and info.. keep it comin guys thanks

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    Re: Conditioning tips for beginners?

    there has been alot of good advise here. I wil try to cover something that has not been covered on this post. Mental conditioning is just as important as physical conditioning. In fact i like to start my mental condition before my physical condition. The rooster should be tame. He should be tame enough to walk up to him and pick him up. play a radio during the day light hours for them. when sparring give them a hen as a reward for a couple of hours. remember they dont fight becouse we bet on them, they compete for hens !!!! One last thing i wanted to cover is sparring, do not over do it with sparring . Once a week for two short pittings is good or twice a week for one short pittings is good. I have seen more cocks hurt by oversparring than i have by not sparring them enough. Hope this helps

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    Member Steel Wings's Avatar
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    Re: Conditioning tips for beginners?

    As a beginner..I will experiment.I will try different method.I will formulate my own method.

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    Re: Conditioning tips for beginners?

    try evrything in this tread that you can apply or easy for you cause there is no exact or perfect way on how to train them evry1 in here has their own way of preaparing a rooster mixed them up pick the 1ones you can do and the ones that your farm fascilities can provide...1 tip for u if the cock or rooster you are preparing is showing the knocking head or head knocking actions that the sign that his in the peak of his conditioning well sme will not hve that sign but most of them will...it takes years of experience...health is always the key factor from egg to chiks if they are healthy its easy for you to train and condition them

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    Senior Member j007's Avatar
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    Re: Conditioning tips for beginners?

    I am over double qualified yearwise-LOL- but feeding never was one of my strong suits was a real good handler in my younger days and turns out a pretty good breeder but only average at best feeder good fowl saved my butt many a time but learned a little from my partner who is one of the best feeders I know.First of all if you are a beginner keep it simple fowl in right situation will work their selves and for Mainland where I am at moisture control is important. If you are new best bet is to keep it simple rotate cocks 2-3 times a day through fly pen,tiecord, and pens have different material for them to scratch in we used to hand work but you can overwork one him tighten up and cant cut a rotated cock will not overwork hisself but will stay busy horse manure is a good material for them to scratch in leaves straw whatever you have moving them around you also handle them alot and that generally calms them down. While on yard they get water whenever they want it for best results you want them empty to show not too wet or too dry .too dry they dont cut muscles need moisture too wet cant take contact as well from oponent.Thats some basics like I said I am no expert but have won a few over the years when was still legal.That is just a start best bet is find somone local can walk you through a keep if they will. What I mentioned will prob work well for small get togethers but lots more to it in the higher level shows. As I mentioned havent fed in years I breed, raise,and help with selection leave the feeding to my partner Joe is twice the feeder I was on my best days.-Jim

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    Senior Member j007's Avatar
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    Re: Conditioning tips for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by j007 View Post
    I am over double qualified yearwise-LOL- but feeding never was one of my strong suits was a real good handler in my younger days and turns out a pretty good breeder but only average at best feeder good fowl saved my butt many a time but learned a little from my partner who is one of the best feeders I know.First of all if you are a beginner keep it simple fowl in right situation will work their selves and for Mainland where I am at moisture control is important. If you are new best bet is to keep it simple rotate cocks 2-3 times a day through fly pen,tiecord, and pens have different material for them to scratch in we used to hand work but you can overwork one him tighten up and cant cut a rotated cock will not overwork hisself but will stay busy horse manure is a good material for them to scratch in leaves straw whatever you have moving them around you also handle them alot and that generally calms them down. While on yard they get water whenever they want it for best results you want them empty to show not too wet or too dry .too dry they dont cut muscles need moisture too wet cant take contact as well from oponent.Thats some basics like I said I am no expert but have won a few over the years when was still legal.That is just a start best bet is find somone local can walk you through a keep if they will. What I mentioned will prob work well for small get togethers but lots more to it in the higher level shows. As I mentioned havent fed in years I breed, raise,and help with selection leave the feeding to my partner Joe is twice the feeder I was on my best days.-Jim
    If you get a cock that wont work put you a pullet or hen in a small cage next to his pen and he should go to work for her.

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    Senior Member Mudflop's Avatar
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    Re: Conditioning tips for beginners?

    It is like is the glass half full or half empty. We don't have 40 plus years of experience although we have been with gamefowl for 40 plus years. We experienced a years' worth of experience 40 plus times. Every season is different, every season is a different challenge, different outcome. It can never be the same or it gets boring and no longer fun.



    Quote Originally Posted by jam671 View Post

    I dont have 20 years of experience, but i also think it dont need 20 years to learn the art of sabong. Unless your kind of slow in the brain.

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    Senior Member jam671's Avatar
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    Re: Conditioning tips for beginners?

    One way to do it is find a person that has a good record and become his friend, buy his breedings and hang out with them. Eventually, you will get close to him and then you can ask him, can you teach me how to condition. You will learn much more hands on than reading. Not all will teach or post their secret conditioning methods on the web. At least I wouldnt hehe. I dont wanna meet up with another person who conditions with the same methods.

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    Re: Conditioning tips for beginners?

    conditioning is not by the book but it depends on the hand of every feeder.If the sequences of events and time base on the book of business conditioning may be almost everybody are winners but i believe it depends on the eyes and hands of the feeder.No conditioning book could you make a winner.If you do not know what you should do,hire a experienced conditioner or feeder.That is my opinion and suggestion.Good Luck'

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    Re: Conditioning tips for beginners?

    One of the things you'll need to learn is how to recognize what a rooster is supposed to feel like when he is in the proper flesh to fight. Knowing what this feels like when you hold him and how to feed him to get him and keep him there is critical.

    The easiest way (and maybe the hardest way) to figure that out is to find an experienced cocker and ask him to let you feel the roosters he has in the keep, especially the last few days. If he knows what he's doing, you'll feel a cock that is light and "corky", that fill out your hands because he has a full breast, muscular thighs and drums. A rooster with gut fat will feel heavy (the term we use is "leady") like he has a belly full of lead. The feeling is like night and day. A cock in proper flesh and well rested, and coming on point has been described as trying to hold a bag of snakes. He is moving in your hands, feels like a bunch of nerves twitching, his muscles are full of energy and he's pretty tought to hold especially when he sees another rooster (or hen).

    Figure out how to get them feeling like that with the right feed, out of good broodpens, and you'll be tough to whip.

    Best advice: find a mentor that knows how to feed and watch him, ask questions, and learn.

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    Member YoungGun's Avatar
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    Re: Conditioning tips for beginners?

    Even when its written right in front of you and you follow those guide lines you will still tweek it a little bit. Find the cond. keep you feel most comfortable with, use it and i garentee whatever you start off with you will end up changing it to your liking. I am not even close to your 20 year mark but i believe it will be a lot of hands on till you find the right way for yourself. Im still learning myself. Good luck to all my fellow cockers!!! yfis Matt

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    Senior Member Butch93's Avatar
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    Re: Conditioning tips for beginners?

    All i can say is keep it as simple as possible to start. Learn how to point and how to cut feed, dont switch up to some advanced keep where u have to feed some crazy diet every few hours or something. Use your normal feed and add some poiled grain and maybe some boiled eggs to start and go from there. Figure out how much they eat and how things effect the point. Pput them threw a few practice keeps till u think u have a good idea whats going on then take them. Also start with a simple rotation keep and play around with bench work if u want just so u get to know how your fowl react and take it. Just take the time to get to know your fowl. U can ask 20 cockers how to do it and get 20 differant answers. Listen to what they have to say and use what works for u. Use some common since and keep your fowl healthy. Charlie Carr has a good tape for beginers. Nothings gospil but give some good imformation if just getting started and u can add to it from there.
    Yfis
    Mark

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    Re: Conditioning tips for beginners?

    there is this dvd sold in the philippines which discuss all the style of natural conditioning.. maybe you can search this guy in you tube... the narrator was the late EMOY GORGONIA.. he was a top breeder in the PI and shows you the step by step preparation of a chicken and all i can say that i my self as a begginer learned a lot from it. he even correct himself on the last part of the dvd on how different types of chicken should be gut emptied before the fight.. i just cant remember if it was in filipino or in engish but it helps a lot....

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    Senior Member gaff's Avatar
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    Re: Conditioning tips for beginners?

    I've seen guys in the game more than twenty years and you can't teach them anything, and then I've seen guys in the game 2 years and win a derby. Some guys are just good feather men. You got to condition a few and try them. Experience is the best teacher.
    Getting your ass whooped is the best motivator and a good set of ears and eyes your best friend.
    You are lucky in the information age you can just type in a question and get thousands of years combined experience coming to your aid via generous cockers willing to share what it took them 20 years to learn in the old days.
    Good luck.
    Yfis.

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    Re: Conditioning tips for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mudflop View Post
    Oxine-AH otherwise clorox with water works well. Clean your stalls, clean your cups, clean your carry cases. A good idea is to clean your rooster also after showing as he could pick up some nasty stuff and bring it home to the flock.
    Also a good idea to keep your roosters away from your main flock for a week or so after a show just in case they did pick something up.

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    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: Conditioning tips for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by longheel View Post
    there has been alot of good advise here. I wil try to cover something that has not been covered on this post. Mental conditioning is just as important as physical conditioning. In fact i like to start my mental condition before my physical condition. The rooster should be tame. He should be tame enough to walk up to him and pick him up. play a radio during the day light hours for them. when sparring give them a hen as a reward for a couple of hours. remember they dont fight becouse we bet on them, they compete for hens !!!! One last thing i wanted to cover is sparring, do not over do it with sparring . Once a week for two short pittings is good or twice a week for one short pittings is good. I have seen more cocks hurt by oversparring than i have by not sparring them enough. Hope this helps
    Best piece of advice its all about SEX SEX SEX !

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    Re: Conditioning tips for beginners?

    whenn it come to feeding stay simple and just make sure you keep feed moving through them and they stay pooping its not hard and there are several ways to go about it and most men will only tell you a small amount of there keep and will allways with hold something important we work real hard then lots of rest the last four days but the hardest thing is adjusting for what each cock needs being able to look and tell what is wrong with him we never let our roosters get empty we peck them on food all day the last days as needed this is what made dee cox so tough if his cocks looked wrong he would adjust there feed or whatever they needed to make them right every cock is different and there is no way to make a keep and feed every cock the same each one needs a little different stuff to make them right once yo can adjust to your cocks needs as they start to fall off you will be just fine

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    Senior Member Hotcocker's Avatar
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    Re: Conditioning tips for beginners?

    sounds about right, but then he was real good at noticing a cock going off, everyone has their own opinion as to what a sharp rooster looks and acts like, and what he looks like when he is going flat.

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    Re: Conditioning tips for beginners?

    if ours look funny they stay at home we dont send ours out to die or give our money away

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    Re: Conditioning tips for beginners?

    ..very good tips for beginners like me..keep posting guys..thanks

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    Re: Conditioning tips for beginners?

    im still a beginner myself but since a baby i was lucky enough to be around top rooster men

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