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Thread: Chocolate Grey

  
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    Chocolate Grey

    Does anyone know the origin of this bloodline?

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    Re: Chocolate Grey

    originated by the late harry parr,dont know the blood composition,try to contact ray alexander of alabama..i heard ,he inherited most of his fowl and surely knew the origin

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    Re: Chocolate Grey

    where to get the good one from the P.I?

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    Re: Chocolate Grey

    The Chocolate Grey didn't start with Harry although in my opinion he done a great job in breeding them as well as improving them...Harry got his from Hugh Norman and when he did they were anything but uniform, in time I had them coming As I wanted......these were Harry's own words.......Ray did get some Chocolate from Harry but did not inherit the Grey's at Harry's passing. There are people that have them and they are good honest fowl.....I know of some in England that a man has perpetuated from eggs Harry sent years back that are nicer than any I have seen, I would swim to England to have a pair of them! It just shows u what matters is.....u start with good fowl and then u got know what to do with them.....when u get them they are yours and the NAME goes to YOU THEN!!!!!!

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    Re: Chocolate Grey

    I didn't know Harry, but I know Ray... I also know Kenny Saucer who raised the chocolate's for Ray... You don't have to swim to England... We still have some here in lower Alabama...

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    Re: Chocolate Grey

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason Farms View Post
    I didn't know Harry, but I know Ray... I also know Kenny Saucer who raised the chocolate's for Ray... You don't have to swim to England... We still have some here in lower Alabama...
    Mr.Mason, sorry sir, did not mean to offend at all, I do know Ray got Chocolate Blood from Harry at one time. Ray stands on his own merit as does Harry both have proven themselves as competent breeders. Once again no offense, just a personal observance and preference....all the best to u and your Kenny friend...

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    Senior Member BlackStealth's Avatar
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    Re: Chocolate Grey

    Can someone post some pics of these Greys? Thanks

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    Senior Member nonny's Avatar
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    Re: Chocolate Grey

    Quote Originally Posted by redbreeder View Post
    The Chocolate Grey didn't start with Harry although in my opinion he done a great job in breeding them as well as improving them...Harry got his from Hugh Norman and when he did they were anything but uniform, in time I had them coming As I wanted......these were Harry's own words.......Ray did get some Chocolate from Harry but did not inherit the Grey's at Harry's passing. There are people that have them and they are good honest fowl.....I know of some in England that a man has perpetuated from eggs Harry sent years back that are nicer than any I have seen, I would swim to England to have a pair of them! It just shows u what matters is.....u start with good fowl and then u got know what to do with them.....when u get them they are yours and the NAME goes to YOU THEN!!!!!!


    I know of the man in England and his fowl... both have a good reputation and I'd prefer these to any choc's I've seen sent to P.I from the the states perform ! Thats not to say that there are not some out there that are still breeding them up to Harry's standards , its a matter of public record as to how the choc greys (or crosses of ) that Ray sent Nene Areneta performed...

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    Senior Member OREVON's Avatar
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    Re: Chocolate Grey

    some posts I cut out........


    Secondly, his greys, which are exceptional long-knife fowl, are from the late master breeder, Harry Parr - not from Duke Hulsey. They're the hardest hitting fowl I've ever seen! And they're game to the last breath! They're sleek in confirmation, medium to medium-high station, come green legs and pea comb. The ones I've used were hatch greys. Alexander's hatch came directly from Harold Brown. Their weights ranged from 4.10 to 5.2lbs.

    The only white legged grey I ever got from him was a grey/claret cross, which hit like a ton bricks! Unfortunately, I've never had the chance to fight him as he was one of several rooster that were stolen! Ray prefers crossing his hatch over the greys. They are very versatile fowl; they can kick at any angle with power. I've never lost in the drag with his greys, even when fighting from behind. At one fight, we fought against a Iron Head black from Kurt Olesuk of Oklahoma. The black took out our greys right leg on the first buckle of the fight. We ended up hurting the black enough to go into the drag. We eeked out a draw after 10 minutes. You won't win all the time with them, but I'll bet you'd walk out of the ring feeling good that they gave their all, all of the time!

    They're honest fowl. BTW - I was at his place two years ago and told him about one the members here saying that he got his fowl from him and was complaining about his clarets or roundheads being anything other than white legs. He told me to look for any yellow legs on his yard that were pure clarets - the answer, none. Also, he didn't know the fellows name as ever purchasing fowl directly from him. He said he wouldn't be in the game for this long if he cheated folks out of their hard earned money - and he has no reason to anyway.

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    Senior Member OREVON's Avatar
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    Re: Chocolate Grey

    as posted by Irishcutt
    E.W. Law made the Chocolate Greys many years ago. Harry Parr got his from Hugh Norman!!! They were a cross of Regular Grey and White claret. Only problem was the White Claret (?) wasnt pure because it threw a brown pullet. The pullet was bred by several famous cockers and everything she was bred to made wonderful battle cocks. Duke Hulsey got some of the blood when originated, as did several others of that era.. Henry Wortham got some of the Chocolate Blood from Law but Henry knew he wasnt a superior breeder so he asked Hugh Norman to breed and maintain the Chocolates'. Hugh got into bad health and asked Harry Parr to take the Chocolates. M. C. Hopper and a few others had this Chocolate Blood from the originator when they were first made.

    as posted by Mike Everett.....
    Law sold alot of fowl and he wanted them to be Grey. Why waste time breeding back to grey hens to get there. I've read Harry Parr statements also. I believe that he was talking about the "Chocolates" and the breeding is reverse of what you have stated. Yes... E.W. Laws contained Madigin greys lines, and the Laws could have contained Claret blood, The Clarets did contain Grey and Mansel Pyle blood, but not half grey. I believe Law used the white legged Madigin silver greys, Hanky Dean supplied, not the greenlegged greys that Madigin called his Old Regular Greys later shortened to Regular Greys... but he might have. The Perfections Greys where Claret and Grey, also out of a green legged Grey cock " the Pefection Cock" and red Claret hens. The Law Greys as made by Law contained OConnell Abany and McNerney Greys both yellow legged, this is where the yellow legged greys that commonly called Law Greys came from. Hugh Norman had some of the dark Law Greys and they where a different family from the yellow legged ones. But as I wasn't there you may be totally right.

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    Senior Member OREVON's Avatar
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    Re: Chocolate Grey

    as posted by SALVAJE.....
    The post here are all accurate. I will pick it up during the time that Harry got them from Hugh because I am not old enough to know Law and the others. I was told that when Harry got the chocolates from Hugh, they came all different colors. I heard this from the late Floyd Gurley during one of our long conversations. Now, the straight ones are silver grey and green legged. Joe Z got this blood from Harry and a friend of mine who is a boyhood friend of him also had them. The Story I heard is that, when Harry was going through a devorce, he kinda knew that his wife will call the humaniacs on him and he gave all his birds to Joe and his friend.

    I know Ray Alexander got his from Joe. Mac White also had some but he said he did not like them or he has something better. My classmate Patrick Puno (in the Phil.) got some from Ray Alexander and he did not like them also. He told me they game but not good fighters. Well that sums up all of 2 os Harry's lines, The Mcleans from Ted being the other. I might say that all these came from the family tha Joe has. I have him show these in the SK and I did not like them either. The ones that HArry's friend got were better fighters. This is the family that I got. Their only problem is they short legged. I raised a couple that came medium high bred to my Clarets and fought them in the WSD. one drew against a winner from Danding (I know because The late Richard Bates was a very friend and he told me) and the other won and became a 5X winner. The bird that I got won in long heel in 3 pittings. I only have a few of these lines because my rooster was stolen before I could raise a lot.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67uh2WVMfgM&feature=player_embedded"]JOVI GREY - YouTube[/ame]

    Who had the Ray Alexander Greys in the Philippines?

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjtPGSfbERM&feature=player_embedded"]HATAW PINOY - Bal Tancio - YouTube[/ame]

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    Re: Chocolate Grey

    Quote Originally Posted by redbreeder View Post
    Mr.Mason, sorry sir, did not mean to offend at all, I do know Ray got Chocolate Blood from Harry at one time. Ray stands on his own merit as does Harry both have proven themselves as competent breeders. Once again no offense, just a personal observance and preference....all the best to u and your Kenny friend...

    Hey RedBreeder....wonder if we could get Tom to open up about what he knows about the Chocolates? Might be interesting!

    Mark

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    Re: Chocolate Grey

    Quote Originally Posted by MarshButcher View Post
    Hey RedBreeder....wonder if we could get Tom to open up about what he knows about the Chocolates? Might be interesting!

    Mark
    Would be of note I am sure Mark, while he was at it He could share some things about the little Red Birds that have been around so long.....

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    Re: Chocolate Grey

    Quote Originally Posted by redbreeder View Post
    The Chocolate Grey didn't start with Harry although in my opinion he done a great job in breeding them as well as improving them...Harry got his from Hugh Norman and when he did they were anything but uniform, in time I had them coming As I wanted......these were Harry's own words.......Ray did get some Chocolate from Harry but did not inherit the Grey's at Harry's passing. There are people that have them and they are good honest fowl.....I know of some in England that a man has perpetuated from eggs Harry sent years back that are nicer than any I have seen, I would swim to England to have a pair of them! It just shows u what matters is.....u start with good fowl and then u got know what to do with them.....when u get them they are yours and the NAME goes to YOU THEN!!!!!!
    The man in New England did not just get eggs from Harry, he got all of Harry's birds when he was going through his divorce. And from my understanding, they were childhood friends. He not only got the greys but the Mcleans and butcher/clarets as well. There was an old thread that had all the history of the chocolates, just hit the search button. There is also a guy in Delaware you got them from Harry.

    It is hard to get it from these guys because they promised Harry that they will not let them go. I was able to get a straight rooster but not a hen. I got 2 hatch chocolates a 1 half albany.

    This a half chocolate half of Harry's yellow legged Mclean stag:



    The stags in the video above that Orevon reposted dare half Chocolates and half Hulsey grey.
    Last edited by SALVAJE; September 1st, 2011 at 11:44 AM.

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    Member frederick sy's Avatar
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    Re: Chocolate Grey

    Quote Originally Posted by MarshButcher View Post
    Hey RedBreeder....wonder if we could get Tom to open up about what he knows about the Chocolates? Might be interesting!

    Mark
    Mark,redbreeder,
    Last year,January 2010,I took a 1 hour flight to Manila from Iloilo to met our good friend Tom,we met at the banquet hosted by Araneta Coliseum owner Jorge Araneta before the start of the World Slasher Derby.Tom was seated with Ray Alexander while I am at the opposite table next to Tom.Tom told Ray,Ray,I hope you don't if I asked you a question,It seems like Ray was at first not interested as he was looking else where but he replied Yes,what's that?Tom asked Ray "Does your chocolates grey throw some White chicken?then Rays eyes became big and look Tom straight in the eyes and asked,How did you know that?Tom replied "I have my Chocolates come that way,they came from Johnnie Mays".Ray whispered to Tom "Yes and they are unbeatable".The next day after the banquet I have a breakfast and lunch with Tom before flying back to the Iloilo.we have lots of rooster talk.Tom told me when Harry Parr gave the Chocolates to Johnnie,Harry told Johnnie that you are the only person I know who was foolish enough to stick with your bloodlines for 40+ years,Johnnie was a true blue Phil Marsh Butcher man.

    Frederick

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    Senior Member OREVON's Avatar
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    Re: Chocolate Grey

    even Ray acquired those Chocolate greys but I believe that those RA greys he sent to PI are already infused with his clarets why it came yellow leggeds

    knew a man in Bataan that had maintained those greys for more than 20 years and his greys comes pea comb yellow legged and straight comb dark legged.

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    Re: Chocolate Grey

    Quote Originally Posted by frederick sy View Post
    Mark,redbreeder,
    Last year,January 2010,I took a 1 hour flight to Manila from Iloilo to met our good friend Tom,we met at the banquet hosted by Araneta Coliseum owner Jorge Araneta before the start of the World Slasher Derby.Tom was seated with Ray Alexander while I am at the opposite table next to Tom.Tom told Ray,Ray,I hope you don't if I asked you a question,It seems like Ray was at first not interested as he was looking else where but he replied Yes,what's that?Tom asked Ray "Does your chocolates grey throw some White chicken?then Rays eyes became big and look Tom straight in the eyes and asked,How did you know that?Tom replied "I have my Chocolates come that way,they came from Johnnie Mays".Ray whispered to Tom "Yes and they are unbeatable".The next day after the banquet I have a breakfast and lunch with Tom before flying back to the Iloilo.we have lots of rooster talk.Tom told me when Harry Parr gave the Chocolates to Johnnie,Harry told Johnnie that you are the only person I know who was foolish enough to stick with your bloodlines for 40+ years,Johnnie was a true blue Phil Marsh Butcher man.

    Frederick
    how often do you see the white ones as ours came from mays and we have not seen one thanks 3spurr

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    Re: Chocolate Grey

    Quote Originally Posted by frederick sy View Post
    Mark,redbreeder,
    Last year,January 2010,I took a 1 hour flight to Manila from Iloilo to met our good friend Tom,we met at the banquet hosted by Araneta Coliseum owner Jorge Araneta before the start of the World Slasher Derby.Tom was seated with Ray Alexander while I am at the opposite table next to Tom.Tom told Ray,Ray,I hope you don't if I asked you a question,It seems like Ray was at first not interested as he was looking else where but he replied Yes,what's that?Tom asked Ray "Does your chocolates grey throw some White chicken?then Rays eyes became big and look Tom straight in the eyes and asked,How did you know that?Tom replied "I have my Chocolates come that way,they came from Johnnie Mays".Ray whispered to Tom "Yes and they are unbeatable".The next day after the banquet I have a breakfast and lunch with Tom before flying back to the Iloilo.we have lots of rooster talk.Tom told me when Harry Parr gave the Chocolates to Johnnie,Harry told Johnnie that you are the only person I know who was foolish enough to stick with your bloodlines for 40+ years,Johnnie was a true blue Phil Marsh Butcher man.

    Frederick
    Frederick,

    When I was up to see tom earlier this year he told me that same story. Very amusing to say the least. From what I have seen the ones he has will hit like mules for the first 2-3 minutes. If you can survive that long then you stand a chance against them.

    Mark

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    Re: Chocolate Grey



    here are the choc greys my old partner got in alabama always came str8 combed green legged though

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    Re: Chocolate Grey

    here they are sorry my cock died a year or so ago so if anyone knows where i can get another in the states please let me know. They usually through specks in the breast of brown white or grey some solid colored breasts like brown or white but rarley all hens are identical and they are tremendious birds i have 3 pure hens and this year i raised them over hamlin asils got 3 stags and 2 pullets but i am in desperate need of a cock or stag pure. He said he got them in mississippi or alabama and he gave 3500$ for them a bit high for me but they are definatley worth it. Someone please point me in the right direction gayheartbrandon@yahoo.com

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    Member frederick sy's Avatar
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    Re: Chocolate Grey

    Quote Originally Posted by MarshButcher View Post
    Frederick,

    When I was up to see tom earlier this year he told me that same story. Very amusing to say the least. From what I have seen the ones he has will hit like mules for the first 2-3 minutes. If you can survive that long then you stand a chance against them.

    Mark
    Mark,
    These chocolates are the real deal.Tom wouldn't mess with them if they are not that good.Tom is very satisfied being a Butcher Man.

    Frederick

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    Member frederick sy's Avatar
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    Re: Chocolate Grey

    Quote Originally Posted by 3spurr View Post
    how often do you see the white ones as ours came from mays and we have not seen one thanks 3spurr
    3spurr,
    They come around 1 out of 10.I really don't know why yours don't come white.

    Frederick Sy

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    Re: Chocolate Grey

    Read the HISTORY on the CHOCOLATES and you will see a solid white cock as the sire and a chocolate grey hen that everyone wanted...this story was in the Journals with EW Law holding the White Claret cock that was the sire...Mark, Fredrick, I know you both know that Tom's throw and occasional white one, as does Ray's. I have seen the white one's at Tom's and, he told me yesterday that He bred a Butcher cock on solid white pullets one year and the offspring were good.....by the way, Tom call's his, May's Grey's.....after the man they came from, JOHN MAYS....

  24. #24
    Member frederick sy's Avatar
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    Re: Chocolate Grey

    Quote Originally Posted by redbreeder View Post
    Read the HISTORY on the CHOCOLATES and you will see a solid white cock as the sire and a chocolate grey hen that everyone wanted...this story was in the Journals with EW Law holding the White Claret cock that was the sire...Mark, Fredrick, I know you both know that Tom's throw and occasional white one, as does Ray's. I have seen the white one's at Tom's and, he told me yesterday that He bred a Butcher cock on solid white pullets one year and the offspring were good.....by the way, Tom call's his, May's Grey's.....after the man they came from, JOHN MAYS....
    redbreeder,
    Actually,Tom is the one who had written the obituary of John Mays in the Gamecock magazine.Tommy Greene was once interviewed by my late friend Emoy in the Tukaan TV show and he described John as a person loved by anyone and when he was buried many of the who's who in the cockfighting world attended and they cried like babies and after John Mays died.Many believed that it was the beginning of an end to the cockfighting era in the U.S.A.

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    Re: Chocolate Grey

    Frederick, way back in the day.....In the late 80's, I was after Tom to get the Butchers and he would not let any go for no price. I tried for 18 years, anyway, he was showing at the Sportsman Club at the time and doing well. He had won the Foxy Hewitt Memorial 6-0 and others, the point I am making is, Many others were after the Butchers also. Still again, Tom wouldn't budge. John Mays of course had his own line from Marsh way back and had kept them straight, he too had been after Tom for a long time as John showed at the Sportsman Club too. Anyway, Tom showed a cock that lost a leg and won a great fight and presented the cock to John, who in turn left the meet immediately, taking the cock home to nurse it Back to health. It had broken the leg completely off.....John did get it healthy again and raised out of it, calling it the peg-leg cock......John lived out near the Dismal Swamp area in VA........story from, back in the day....

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    Re: Chocolate Grey

    I put a pic of a Choclate Gray on the gallery. If you breed to the white chocolate roosters with the light colored hen, they are almost white.

  27. #27
    Member frederick sy's Avatar
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    Re: Chocolate Grey

    Quote Originally Posted by redbreeder View Post
    Frederick, way back in the day.....In the late 80's, I was after Tom to get the Butchers and he would not let any go for no price. I tried for 18 years, anyway, he was showing at the Sportsman Club at the time and doing well. He had won the Foxy Hewitt Memorial 6-0 and others, the point I am making is, Many others were after the Butchers also. Still again, Tom wouldn't budge. John Mays of course had his own line from Marsh way back and had kept them straight, he too had been after Tom for a long time as John showed at the Sportsman Club too. Anyway, Tom showed a cock that lost a leg and won a great fight and presented the cock to John, who in turn left the meet immediately, taking the cock home to nurse it Back to health. It had broken the leg completely off.....John did get it healthy again and raised out of it, calling it the peg-leg cock......John lived out near the Dismal Swamp area in VA........story from, back in the day....
    redbreeder,
    Those Butchers are true foundation blood.I am glad that you have them as we can share stories about them.
    Frederick Sy

  28. #28
    Member frederick sy's Avatar
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    Re: Chocolate Grey

    Quote Originally Posted by redbreeder View Post
    Frederick, way back in the day.....In the late 80's, I was after Tom to get the Butchers and he would not let any go for no price. I tried for 18 years, anyway, he was showing at the Sportsman Club at the time and doing well. He had won the Foxy Hewitt Memorial 6-0 and others, the point I am making is, Many others were after the Butchers also. Still again, Tom wouldn't budge. John Mays of course had his own line from Marsh way back and had kept them straight, he too had been after Tom for a long time as John showed at the Sportsman Club too. Anyway, Tom showed a cock that lost a leg and won a great fight and presented the cock to John, who in turn left the meet immediately, taking the cock home to nurse it Back to health. It had broken the leg completely off.....John did get it healthy again and raised out of it, calling it the peg-leg cock......John lived out near the Dismal Swamp area in VA........story from, back in the day....
    redbreeder,
    Those Butchers are true foundation blood.I am glad that you have them as we can share stories about them.
    Frederick Sy

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