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Thread: Gameness

  
  1. #301
    Senior Member vizzard n tassl's Avatar
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    Re: Gameness

    Quote Originally Posted by Brettjern View Post
    They wasn't sold by me but I can tell u one thing. U won't find many sweaters being fought in the gaff.
    this year it green leg greys next year we will have to see ill still wip um with bill roberts butchers

  2. #302
    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Gameness

    Quote Originally Posted by Brettjern View Post
    They wasn't sold by me but I can tell u one thing. U won't find many sweaters being fought in the gaff.
    The sweater fowl weren't really designed for the gaff, though I talked with Carol and he said he used them pure in the gaff many years ago. You guys don't realize that "sweater" is a game plan and not necessarily a bloodline. I have used possum sweater crosses for awhile now and have found they are successful in the spur.

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    Re: Gameness

    Quote Originally Posted by vizzard n tassl View Post
    this year it green leg greys next year we will have to see ill still wip um with bill roberts butchers
    I have seen a lot of great butchers shown in the spur, I'm yet to see one lack gameness

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  6. #304
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    Re: Gameness

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    The sweater fowl weren't really designed for the gaff, though I talked with Carol and he said he used them pure in the gaff many years ago. You guys don't realize that "sweater" is a game plan and not necessarily a bloodline. I have used possum sweater crosses for awhile now and have found they are successful in the spur.
    Your right they were bred by some just for the knife but in doin that they lost some gameness but they gained other abilities

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  8. #305
    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Gameness

    Quote Originally Posted by Brettjern View Post
    Your right they were bred by some just for the knife but in doin that they lost some gameness but they gained other abilities
    The name of the game is winning at a high percentage in elite competition. You guys forget that dung hills win derbies AND MAINS TOO. Kind of makes you want to reevaluate what good is. I'll take winning to loosing any day.

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  10. #306
    Senior Member yard bird's Avatar
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    Re: Gameness

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    The name of the game is winning at a high percentage in elite competition. You guys forget that dung hills win derbies AND MAINS TOO. Kind of makes you want to reevaluate what good is. I'll take winning to loosing any day.
    You are right most of us in the us cut our teeth in gaff shows and we all know that a game rooster is,a,must in this style you don't need the gameness every time but sooner or later you will be in the drag and need a,100% game rooster to win and for that reason most of us are game freaks . IMO it's very hard for a man to understand another man,if he's never been in his shoes so the guys that's never saw a real knock out drag out gaff fight doesn't understand why we think the way we,do and the ones of us,that would only show gaff if we could can't understand the knife world 100% because we learned gameness first and foremost jmo in the matter
    Last edited by yard bird; October 23rd, 2015 at 10:49 AM.

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  12. #307
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    Re: Gameness

    Quote Originally Posted by yard bird View Post
    You are right most of us in the us cut our teeth in gaff shows and we all know that a game rooster is,a,must in this style you don't need the gameness every time but sooner or later you will be in the drag and need a,100% game rooster to win and for that reason most of us are game freaks . IMO it's very hard for a man to understand another man,if he's never been in his shoes so the guys that's never saw a real knock out drag out gaff fight doesn't understand why we think the way we,do and the ones of us,that would only show gaff if we could can't understand the knife world 100% because we learned gameness first and foremost jmo in the matter
    i agree with you 100% most people now a days dont admire gameness

  13. #308
    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Gameness

    Quote Originally Posted by yard bird View Post
    You are right most of us in the us cut our teeth in gaff shows and we all know that a game rooster is,a,must in this style you don't need the gameness every time but sooner or later you will be in the drag and need a,100% game rooster to win and for that reason most of us are game freaks . IMO it's very hard for a man to understand another man,if he's never been in his shoes so the guys that's never saw a real knock out drag out gaff fight doesn't understand why we think the way we,do and the ones of us,that would only show gaff if we could can't understand the knife world 100% because we learned gameness first and foremost jmo in the matter
    Preaching to the choir my brother. Came from a family where if it wasn't hatch, it wasn't a gamecock PERIOD! Used them in the 60's, 70's and 80's till we got tired of getting are asses handed to us. Learned the hard way. Game ain't going to get the win without cut, intelligence, athleticism and timing. You simply can't go in there with just elite gameness. Got to have it all.

  14. #309
    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Gameness

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisincity View Post
    i agree with you 100% most people now a days dont admire gameness
    I admire it more than most. Just know going hog wild on it, as an abdolute way of winning, ain't going to get you nowhere. WE WERE FANATIC ABOUT GAMENESS. You see I came from that side of the fence not the side where we experienced cold bloodlines. Totally opposite of most of you. We had the Gamest. Neve did sh!t for us. Must have the COMPLETE PACKAGE or else you ain't going to compete at an elite level.

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  16. #310
    Senior Member yard bird's Avatar
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    Re: Gameness

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    Preaching to the choir my brother. Came from a family where if it wasn't hatch, it wasn't a gamecock PERIOD! Used them in the 60's, 70's and 80's till we got tired of getting are asses handed to us. Learned the hard way. Game ain't going to get the win without cut, intelligence, athleticism and timing. You simply can't go in there with just elite gameness. Got to have it all.
    I agree ......
    100%........ You got to have more than gameness these days but it's still first in my selection then cut and brains.

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  18. #311
    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Gameness

    Quote Originally Posted by yard bird View Post
    I agree ......
    100%........ You got to have more than gameness these days but it's still first in my selection then cut and brains.
    I know a man who everyone knows has cold blood in the spur. Known him for a couple decades. He wins derbies regularly. His birds stay there long enough to whip you regularly. Should he get rid of his fowl cause there not game?

  19. #312
    Senior Member yard bird's Avatar
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    Re: Gameness

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    I know a man who everyone knows has cold blood in the spur. Known him for a couple decades. He wins derbies regularly. His birds stay there long enough to whip you regularly. Should he get rid of his fowl cause there not game?
    I look at it like this if it works for him and he is happy with them it's his right to keep them to each his on

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  21. #313
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    Re: Gameness

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    I admire it more than most. Just know going hog wild on it, as an abdolute way of winning, ain't going to get you nowhere. WE WERE FANATIC ABOUT GAMENESS. You see I came from that side of the fence not the side where we experienced cold bloodlines. Totally opposite of most of you. We had the Gamest. Neve did sh!t for us. Must have the COMPLETE PACKAGE or else you ain't going to compete at an elite level.
    Yes and a big part of that total package is gameness.

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  23. #314
    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Gameness

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisincity View Post
    Yes and a big part of that total package is gameness.
    Ill tell you what's more important than gameness that no one talks about:
    1) controlling distance
    2) proper balance
    3) proper stroke mechanics
    4) proper eye contact
    5) proper TIMING

    You could have average gameness with elite level of the above and rarely need to show gameness. Gameness ISNT ONE QUALITY. Its many....
    1) high shock resistance
    2) high pain tolerance
    3)high level tenacity
    4) natural endurance
    5) high durability .
    I know of few dead game families that have all these characteristics. It's very hard to get all these traits in one family equally and at an elite level.
    And then you want to cross them on a winning bloodline with its own set of elite level performance characteristics without dropping off/ CANCELING OUT most of these elite level qualities from either side. Most people are delusional about what elite level entails and wether they have it. The people who don't talk on here are the ones who understand most and won't share cause that defeats the idea of competition. I know a couple that probably wish I'd shut up.
    Last edited by MONGOOSE; October 23rd, 2015 at 12:17 PM.

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    Re: Gameness

    [QUOTE=MONGOOSE;4725877]Ill tell you what's more important than gameness that no one talks about:
    1) controlling distance
    2) proper balance
    3) proper stroke mechanics
    4) proper eye contact
    5) proper TIMING

    You could have average gameness with elite level of the above and rarely need to show gameness. Gameness ISNT ONE QUALITY. Its many....
    1) high shock resistance
    2) high pain tolerance
    3)high level tenacity
    4) natural endurance
    5) high durability .
    I know of few dead game families that have all these characteristics. It's very hard to get all these traits in one family equally and at an elite level.
    And then you want to cross them on a winning bloodline with its own set of elite level performance characteristics without dropping off/ CANCELING OUT most of these elite level qualities from either side. Most people are delusional about what elite level entails and wether they have it. The people who don't talk on here are the ones who understand most and won't share cause that defeats the idea of competition. I know a couple that probably wish I'd shut up.[/QUOTE you are correct but i guess we all breed for different characteristics and the testing ground is what proves who is right .

  26. #316
    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Gameness

    [QUOTE=Raisincity;4725879]
    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    Ill tell you what's more important than gameness that no one talks about:
    1) controlling distance
    2) proper balance
    3) proper stroke mechanics
    4) proper eye contact
    5) proper TIMING

    You could have average gameness with elite level of the above and rarely need to show gameness. Gameness ISNT ONE QUALITY. Its many....
    1) high shock resistance
    2) high pain tolerance
    3)high level tenacity
    4) natural endurance
    5) high durability .
    I know of few dead game families that have all these characteristics. It's very hard to get all these traits in one family equally and at an elite level.
    And then you want to cross them on a winning bloodline with its own set of elite level performance characteristics without dropping off/ CANCELING OUT most of these elite level qualities from either side. Most people are delusional about what elite level entails and wether they have it. The people who don't talk on here are the ones who understand most and won't share cause that defeats the idea of competition. I know a couple that probably wish I'd shut up.[/QUOTE you are correct but i guess we all breed for different characteristics and the testing ground is what proves who is right .
    I agree to an extent. I've seen elite birds meet asil crosses that have a style that capitalizes on American valued traits. It doesn't mean there better. It just means that some styles give others a hard time. Kind of like how Ken Norton gave Ali a hard time but people who Ali whipped easily gave Norton a hard time, but a win is a win regardless.
    Last edited by MONGOOSE; October 23rd, 2015 at 02:41 PM.

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  28. #317
    Senior Member vizzard n tassl's Avatar
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    Re: Gameness

    Many moons ago I was handling an entry big hatch birds for old man I sat the first one down the other bird was faster cut better but after 10 or so pitting he started to slow down lost his power I was cut up good but still in there lots power any way 45 min I won I told the old man we won but he not to good he tells that was his 3rd fight and that was his fastest one yet it was very long day but we split the derby 5 out 6 he gave me that cock I could not walk to good for 2 days he won two the other chickens pulled up

  29. #318
    Senior Member lucasemerson's Avatar
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    Re: Gameness

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    Ill tell you what's more important than gameness that no one talks about:
    1) controlling distance
    2) proper balance
    3) proper stroke mechanics
    4) proper eye contact
    5) proper TIMING

    You could have average gameness with elite level of the above and rarely need to show gameness. Gameness ISNT ONE QUALITY. Its many....
    1) high shock resistance
    2) high pain tolerance
    3)high level tenacity
    4) natural endurance
    5) high durability .
    I know of few dead game families that have all these characteristics. It's very hard to get all these traits in one family equally and at an elite level.
    And then you want to cross them on a winning bloodline with its own set of elite level performance characteristics without dropping off/ CANCELING OUT most of these elite level qualities from either side. Most people are delusional about what elite level entails and wether they have it. The people who don't talk on here are the ones who understand most and won't share cause that defeats the idea of competition. I know a couple that probably wish I'd shut up.
    Controlling distance is the number 1 factor u need to win any fight...man or beast...if I keep u where I want u win many more times than I lose

    Lucas
    Last edited by lucasemerson; October 23rd, 2015 at 08:26 PM.

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  31. #319
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    Re: Gameness

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    The name of the game is winning at a high percentage in elite competition. You guys forget that dung hills win derbies AND MAINS TOO. Kind of makes you want to reevaluate what good is. I'll take winning to loosing any day.
    Those dunghills u say that r winning those Derby's and mains aren't doin that in the gaff. I never seen a man win a main with dunghills in the gaff, it just takes so much from a bird he has to be game to take the punishment.

  32. #320
    Senior Member vizzard n tassl's Avatar
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    Re: Gameness

    Over rthe years I've seen alot of guys buy every different line trying to get to the top some really good ones the biggest problem is I've seen is not there not game they just don't have endurance they need ! hatch dont run out power stag or cock Not just hatch every line I've seen my stag at one year old hold power like cock im not saying I have not seen some have it but alot don't I've had the same lines fought same crossed for 25 years aways been good and sometimes amazing cut endurance cut cut cut

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    Re: Gameness

    Everyone here knows that the knife and gaff are a lot different and gameness isn't as important in the knife than in the gaff. There is an old man near me that has some sweaters they r really good fighters. He showed one last year in the SK and he didn't get touched. After the fight I dropped him out and gave him some water and he started to hack up. I dropped a rooster in the drop pen next to him and he hell bent to get away from him. That same man wants to breed those sweaters into my greys and show in the gaff. I told him he better get his running shoes on because that cross will hit the hills in the gaff but I told him we could show them in the SK and lk and we would prolly be ok. The point to my story is if he would have got in trouble or if the fight would have lasted longer he would have tucked tail and ran. Gameness is important to win consistently in any weapon.

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  35. #322
    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Gameness

    Quote Originally Posted by Brettjern View Post
    Those dunghills u say that r winning those Derby's and mains aren't doin that in the gaff. I never seen a man win a main with dunghills in the gaff, it just takes so much from a bird he has to be game to take the punishment.
    IF THEY ARE WINNING QUICK AND EASY, YOU'll NEVER SEE GAMENESS.
    Not only are they winning in the longheel. There also have done it in the peg awl.
    I hear you talk about gameness but I'll tell you something, (and I'm not running down anyone's birds), those spangle hatches from the Cox's ARENT what I consider GAME. There pit game. The greys are DEAD GAME. The spangles value is they make EVERTHING BETTER. I just don't have them cause there a little to mean for my taste. I consider them equivalent to most sweaters, Roundheads and blacks. At one time they had lite red non spangle Gerard hatches. Those were very game but not as talented as the spangles.
    Last edited by MONGOOSE; October 24th, 2015 at 12:34 AM.

  36. #323
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    Re: Gameness

    We all don't see gameness eye to eye and I lost interest in this discussion after bill roberts name was mentioned i don't even want to hve any conversation with people who owns them, i hope nobody gets offended on a more personal note... i ONLY recognize one butcher and thats "marsh family" butchers. I wish you all and this thread well.

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  38. #324
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    Re: Gameness

    Dunghills have been winning in the gaff forever.

    I (HAD) a strain of roundhead fowl that I can only describe as FINISHERS. They finish their opponents very quickly. Even if they were losing. I knew all they need was a shuffle to eaven it up or win.

    I took my main brood cock out. Multiple times winner...my ace so I thought.

    My friend comes over with a stag the neighbors had gave him. It was a barnyard cross. He says...hey... Want to see if he shows? I reply drop him then.

    I let my brood cock go and it's on...I tell him...lets leave them for a few minutes...about a minute and a half...boom my prized brood cock decided to run ��...against a barnyard.

    I experimented with them for awhile...i found everything with that blood was like that.

    It's like they knew when they had the heels on...or expected each strike to do so much damage to his opponent, because with the heels off...if they couldn't finish quickly...like they typically do...they run.

    After I saw them for who they really are...i couldn't tolerate them on my yard...even if they were winning with steel...why???because they made me second guess...i couldn't trust them anymore...like disloyalty...couldn't feed them and treat them right when I can't trust them...I'd rather cull them.

    Elite level fighters should have elite traits...or they're not elite...

    Dunghills win...because there's so many variables to winning.

    Raising them right
    Elite traits (All Around)
    LadyLuck might choose you.
    Last edited by Lino Zuniga; October 23rd, 2015 at 11:45 PM.

  39. #325
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    Re: Gameness

    Measuring & timing are the main traits I believe that make superior cutting roosters. Positioning is something that I think gets overlooked. Most top level roosters I have been around were superior in those three things. On gameness, I think we need to dissect what it really is? It is a mental trait or even a state of mind. To me gameness can be sumed up in that no matter the situation the rooster never thinks he is behind & that he knows he can & will kill that other rooster. Gameness to me is not laying there taking punishment, letting the other rooster fight himself out & then outlasting him or all of a sudden he comes back. Bullsh*t he could have been doing that all along. He lost & regained his confidence. Same thing with roosters you see that are back & forth but when they knock the other one down they really pour it on then. Gameness is confidence regardless of the situation. Health & mental conditioning also are keys to everything.

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  41. #326
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    Re: Gameness

    I tend to agree with cigar,if they show any cold their gone,it's a lot easier to throw feed to them,look at them,love them if you know you can trust them!

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    Re: Gameness

    I have always felt gameness was a mental condition. If a good family is well taken care of, they will be as game as they come. If you cut corners....don't feed when it is hot/cold....don't clean out water bowls.....feed crappy feed....don't worm and delouse....then the end result may not be the same. I have witnessed the same chickens that showed game for years be runners when not taken care of properly. A true cocker will put 365 days of care into their chickens which is required to maintain their health...both mentally and physically.

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  44. #328
    Senior Member vizzard n tassl's Avatar
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    Re: Gameness

    u never been cut up coupled taken punishment then watch other chicken kick him self out and *** from way behind to win Remember back in the day some the big hatch chickens that didnt cut to good but just would not go down they where poor fighters need a bill hold I seen alot chickens kick there self out then u get a lucky kick the old game cocks

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  46. #329
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    Re: Gameness

    I have to disagree with game fowl having to be in the pink of health to show game. Not that anyone would not have there fowl in good health. But if you can bring a cock home that has won a hard battle I mean two days latter bareley able to walk moreless jump up to a jump board with Crap pooping out of him that is indescribable. Hunched up. You put a fresh one on him and he goes as best he can and still wants it. That's a game rooster. That lives deep in them. In modern day gaff when legal of course. Its so short a fight with good cocks it might as well be LK. Both cocks come together just shuffling and cutting. You better have a game cock. Because most times when they come apart someone is hurt bad or dead. Seems to me most folks think to get a good fast cutting cock you need to add dunghill blood. Not so. You just need good game cocks. Todays day and age there's no point in feeding junk weather it be game or not. I don't want any dead game cocks that cant fight. Just as soon as I sure don't want any ace dunghills I don't care if he has 10 wins under him. Just shows me he hasn't met a good rooster yet. Just because you woop Dink or jumper don't mean they was tuff competition. They may of just been alittle off that day. Believe me just a little off is a mile. Could be a difference of an hour. Just my 2 cents. When legal we fought a main matched 11. We started and were gone in less then a hour and a half 6 straight. That's total time. We both had excellent cocks. I was just alittle sharper. 2 hours difference in time and there might have been a different outcome.

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  48. #330
    Senior Member chad123's Avatar
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    Re: Gameness

    Im probally repeating myself but people act like gameness and cut are oil and water and cant be mixed why not have both one without the other will eventually fail

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