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Thread: Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

  
  1. #271
    Member Giman's Avatar
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    Re: Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

    Quote Originally Posted by FILAMEX View Post
    I am just guessing that the surat knives they used are less than 4 inches long. One thing for sure or should say 2 things for sure is that they have good cutting chickens and that their gaffer knows exactly how to align the knife.
    A bonus maybe was that, lady luck was with them.
    Here in Sarawak, standard length of the blade is around 2 1/2 inches to 3 3/4 inches. Longer than that, you'll just cut the opponent's vent area, thighs and legs.

    The blade is align to the cock's leg movement during their shuffling (horizontal/"peng" or vertical/"ayun" movement). For horizontal style, the tip of the blade is a little to the inside (close to the spur, but not directly align to it). For vertical style, the tip of the blade is more to the outside, but not to far aligned to the shank or rear toes(I'm not good with the terms). If it goes farther than the shank (the alignment in the gallery posted by someone about Malaysian alignment), we call it "Leg Cutter". Only tie to this alignment if the blade is too long for the cock. My opinion, the gaffer must know how the cock fight, then he know how to tie them right, specially for the cock itself. Different cock, different stroke.

    I don't have any weighting scale with me, by my observation, a Sulat knife set is a bit lighter than a Fork knife set. Maybe this little advantage can make some change in tough competition.
    Last edited by Giman; January 20th, 2012 at 11:01 PM. Reason: Grammar

  2. #272
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    Re: Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

    Quote Originally Posted by Giman View Post
    Here in Sarawak, standard length of the blade is around 2 1/2 inches to 3 3/4 inches. Longer than that, you'll just cut the opponent's vent area, thighs and legs.

    The blade is align to the cock's leg movement during their shuffling (horizontal/"peng" or vertical/"ayun" movement). For horizontal style, the tip of the blade is a little to the inside (close to the spur, but not directly align to it). For vertical style, the tip of the blade is more to the outside, but not to far aligned to the shank or rear toes(I'm not good with the terms). If it goes farther than the shank (the alignment in the gallery posted by someone about Malaysian alignment), we call it "Leg Cutter". Only tie to this alignment if the blade is too long for the cock. My opinion, the gaffer must know how the cock fight, then he know how to tie them right, specially for the cock itself. Different cock, different stroke.

    I don't have any weighting scale with me, by my observation, a Sulat knife set is a bit lighter than a Fork knife set. Maybe this little advantage can make some change in tough competition.
    Very interesting point of views sir Giman...thank you. I'm just wondering if other gaffers here would share the same opinion as yours. In all honesty, I don't have any clue at all about the sport in your country or Indonesia but looks like my guess about lenght of your sulat knives is somewhat bullseye.. Looks like you guys over there played around with longer knives thus your claim of cutting only the opponents vent, thigh, or legs. If at all possible, could you elaborate further this phenomenon as to why it happens? And did I get you right that knife alignment or setting on a flyer bird would be different to a grounder? Thanks
    Last edited by FILAMEX; January 21st, 2012 at 02:47 PM.

  3. #273
    Senior Member The Saint's Avatar
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    Re: Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

    Quote Originally Posted by jailbird View Post
    This is s an open invitation to all cockers who are here in Metro Manila - there are a lot because of the WSC, you are all invited to join us for coffee on sunday early am. We normally meet at Starbucks BF paranaque and proceed to Joeys farm which is about 20 mins away. However if it is more convenient for you we can meet along Sucat Shakeys near Shopwise and Petron or better still in Starbucks Madrigal avenue - alabang. I can accomodate up to 9 more riders in my van and am sure Joey can take in 4-5 more in his SUV. Joey has 2 stags for practice - we can have a knife tying practice session :-) if anyone confirms, we i will ensure we have more roosters to fight. Bahala na si Bayong :-)
    Sir Biak na Bato - Joey says you are in town - please let us know if you can make it and where you want to meet up in the Paranaque or Alabang areas :-)
    Just saw this invite. Very interesting. In fact, maybe I can bring some surats and we can try them out as well.

  4. #274
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    Re: Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

    Quote Originally Posted by The Saint View Post
    Just saw this invite. Very interesting. In fact, maybe I can bring some surats and we can try them out as well.
    It's good you saw it sir The Saint. For it really look like sir Joey have a gooood "firing range" place for all types of chicken weapons. Wish you guys the best.

  5. #275
    Senior Member competitor's Avatar
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    Re: Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

    Quote Originally Posted by jailbird View Post


    very nice hennies jb!.....good luck on their upcoming fights!!!

  6. #276
    Senior Member Joey Hidalgo's Avatar
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    Re: Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

    Quote Originally Posted by FILAMEX View Post
    It's good you saw it sir The Saint. For it really look like sir Joey have a gooood "firing range" place for all types of chicken weapons. Wish you guys the best.
    Sure, just bring your knives and birds tomorrow! Can bring them to the "firing range" after coffee which is 15mins away from our coffee venue tomorrow.

    Swerte I got tickets from my favorite sponsor feeds company and will watch WSC in the afternoon!

  7. #277
    Senior Member Joey Hidalgo's Avatar
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    Re: Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

    Quote Originally Posted by competitor View Post
    very nice hennies jb!.....good luck on their upcoming fights!!!
    Jailbird get two hennies, laban natin sa SPC ulutan 2hits win P20,000 instantly, the pot is P3,300 lang. Every saturdays and tuesday Been so popular, neighboring pits are copying the concept- Binan doing exactly the same thing, and I believe today in Muntinlupa as well.

    will test the offcolors we sparred last week for this.

  8. #278
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    Re: Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

    Quote Originally Posted by joey hidalgo View Post
    jailbird get two hennies, laban natin sa spc ulutan 2hits win p20,000 instantly, the pot is p3,300 lang. Every saturdays and tuesday been so popular, neighboring pits are copying the concept- binan doing exactly the same thing, and i believe today in muntinlupa as well.

    Will test the offcolors we sparred last week for this.

    thanks for the info sir joey.....good luck to you guys.....give my regards to jeb when you see him....

  9. #279
    Senior Member The Saint's Avatar
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    Re: Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

    Quote Originally Posted by Joey Hidalgo View Post
    Sure, just bring your knives and birds tomorrow! Can bring them to the "firing range" after coffee which is 15mins away from our coffee venue tomorrow.

    Swerte I got tickets from my favorite sponsor feeds company and will watch WSC in the afternoon!
    Great! Thanks. Just saw this again but I am free. I am not familiar with Starbucks BF Paranaque so I'll go to Starbucks Madrigal Alabang. I'll be there by 7AM. Be leaving in awhile
    Last edited by The Saint; January 22nd, 2012 at 05:42 AM.

  10. #280
    Senior Member Joey Hidalgo's Avatar
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    Re: Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

    Starbucks Madrigal indeed is the venue at 7am. Will you bring your Surat knives and bird/ birds? we can go to farm after coffee

  11. #281
    Senior Member The Saint's Avatar
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    Re: Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

    Quote Originally Posted by Joey Hidalgo View Post
    Starbucks Madrigal indeed is the venue at 7am. Will you bring your Surat knives and bird/ birds? we can go to farm after coffee
    Ok I'll see you there then. Sorry I do not have any birds to bring (unless we pass by mga bayong) but I'll bring my surat-surat if that's ok.

    [Don't know how I will recognize you. I'll be wearing a grey Texas A&M shirt.]

  12. #282
    Senior Member Joey Hidalgo's Avatar
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    Re: Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

    OK, thanks for your shirt identification, I will find you. We will be joined by Jailbird and Biak na bato for coffee and chickentalk at 7am

  13. #283
    Senior Member Joey Hidalgo's Avatar
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    Re: Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

    Excellent chicken talk morning with Messrs. Jailbird, Saint and Biak na Bato. We met at 7am in Starbucks Madrigal, had coffee till 9am then moved to the "firing range"/my farm close by to test the SURAT knives on two sultadas : ) Thanks Mr. Saint for the gifts to me and Jailbird.

    I will frame my original Indonesian Surat knife and place on display in the gameroom.

    Now off to Araneta Coliseum to watch the WSC finals : )

  14. #284
    Member Giman's Avatar
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    Re: Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

    Quote Originally Posted by FILAMEX View Post
    Very interesting point of views sir Giman...thank you. I'm just wondering if other gaffers here would share the same opinion as yours. In all honesty, I don't have any clue at all about the sport in your country or Indonesia but looks like my guess about lenght of your sulat knives is somewhat bullseye.. Looks like you guys over there played around with longer knives thus your claim of cutting only the opponents vent, thigh, or legs. If at all possible, could you elaborate further this phenomenon as to why it happens? And did I get you right that knife alignment or setting on a flyer bird would be different to a grounder? Thanks
    As to why longer knives usually cut the lower body parts; before the knife make any penetration to the body, it must be lifted up by the leg. When the knife is too long, the knife just go halfway because it was obstructed by the opponent's lower body, that make the leg doesn't fully extend, if not the knife should be able to reach the opponent's upper body.

    Some cockers do use longer knife. I once loss to a longer knife, when the other cock lies on the ground with the knife straight upward. My cock just jump into the other cock, resulting a deep cut from the vent to the heart. My cock dies instantly.

    We don't use different setting for grounder/flyer criteria. The setting/alignment is depending on how the cock attack (movements of the legs) vertical/ the leg moves up and down, horizontal/ the leg move from outside to inside. (That's what old timers around here told me).

    If the cock have short shank, we usually ties Sulat (for low point, more reach). If they're normal, medium to long shank, we ties Tinchin,Socket Knife(medium point), much more easier to tie, more stable.
    Last edited by Giman; January 22nd, 2012 at 12:52 PM.

  15. #285
    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

    We tried Joeys Malaysian style (pakpak langaw blade on a fork) and it did credibly well. Disabled the oponent and had to kill it while on its back, which is not easy to do. Quite bloody but ok. Joeys reds are dead game birds!

    The opponent was using a surat, tied experimentally by Mr. saint. It was an A1 rooster despite being half blind. I would easily say he probably was the best fot the day, very dominating in the first 3 flies but Unfortunately he was cut bad in the spine and paralyzed on the 3rd or 4th buckle.

    The second fight, we tied 2 surats. One tied surat angle and the other i adjusted so the blade mimicked a true Filipino setting. It cut well and disabled the opponent but had a hard time killing the opponent as the blade was wobbling - im sure it was because i wove it wrong - hahahaha but that just goes to show that any blade angled correctly can cut and kill. Of course the Surat had the be radically adjusted to mimick the Fil blade - and tue enough the Dom disabled the nice Hatch roundhead bullstag.

    Im sure The Saint will be sharing his personal experiences and observations regarding his Surat knives. jovie, thanks so much for the Surat! Will have it framed and mounted as well.

  16. #286
    Member Giman's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

    Quote Originally Posted by jailbird View Post
    - hahahaha but that just goes to show that any blade angled correctly can cut and kill.
    .
    I agree with your statement there, sir. The angle is the key. does not matter if it was fork, socket or sulat.

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    Re: Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

    Quote Originally Posted by Giman View Post
    I agree with your statement there, sir. The angle is the key. does not matter if it was fork, socket or sulat.
    I also agree 110% on the "angle is the key" or gaffers alignment is the key but, I'm very particular also about knife design.
    Sirs jailbird, Joey, biaknabato and The Saint, glad to know that you had a lot of fun today in the "firing range". Hope that one of this days, you'll be able to assemble and fire your own weapons individually without assistance.

  18. #288
    Senior Member The Saint's Avatar
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    Re: Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

    Yup today was very enjoyable. Met new friends and learned a lot from the chicken talk. I was hoping to prove that the surat (if tied by me) is not much at a disadvantage. (I'm sure if tied by Orang Indonesia atau Malaysia itu bagus sekali). The chickens performed well but the surat I tied left much to be desired all the more so with Joey's game and hard-to-kill roosters... However, I will still experiment with it and hope and see. Need to tweak my method it seems

    Just as a side note to Jailbird, Joey and Biak na Bato, the Bulik that won in the second fight did have a wound from the surat (akala kasi natin wala). It was a flesh wound in the breast but did not penetrate deep. Oh well. Lessons learned.

    Thank you gentlemen for the talk, the trip and the tips. Looking forward to doing it again

  19. #289
    Senior Member The Saint's Avatar
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    Re: Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

    Quote Originally Posted by jailbird View Post
    ...The second fight, we tied 2 surats. One tied surat angle and the other i adjusted so the blade mimicked a true Filipino setting. It cut well and disabled the opponent but had a hard time killing the opponent as the blade was wobbling - im sure it was because i wove it wrong - hahahaha but that just goes to show that any blade angled correctly can cut and kill. Of course the Surat had the be radically adjusted to mimick the Fil blade - and tue enough the Dom disabled the nice Hatch roundhead bullstag...
    I forgot to mention (and to give credit where credit is due) that Jailbird (aka tari guru) tied the surat on the other bird that won. First time for him to tie a surat and already deadly effective... Same with good roosters, Jailbird can put any weapon on a capable cock and make it deadly.

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    Re: Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

    Ralph Warner used to make some outstanding knives in the USA,,,,used to get LK's from him and Bill Baumgardner,,,which Bill made all my gaff's which in my opinion he was a top gaff maker,,,,not the top but a top notch heel maker,,,,now his knives looked dated compared to what Ralph sold,,,,but man were they effective,,,,Bill has passed on and Ralph Warner,,i thought had been battling cancer, several years since i talked to Ralph,,,,is he still living or does anyone know,,,he sure was a nice fella,,,talked to him many times but never met Ralph,,,,,,,,BRK
    Last edited by brownred kelso; January 22nd, 2012 at 11:42 PM.

  21. #291
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    Re: Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

    what is the best steel that people use no days? or what is the best?

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    Senior Member Joey Hidalgo's Avatar
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    Re: Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

    Quote Originally Posted by The Saint View Post
    Yup today was very enjoyable. Met new friends and learned a lot from the chicken talk. I was hoping to prove that the surat (if tied by me) is not much at a disadvantage. (I'm sure if tied by Orang Indonesia atau Malaysia itu bagus sekali). The chickens performed well but the surat I tied left much to be desired all the more so with Joey's game and hard-to-kill roosters... However, I will still experiment with it and hope and see. Need to tweak my method it seems

    Just as a side note to Jailbird, Joey and Biak na Bato, the Bulik that won in the second fight did have a wound from the surat (akala kasi natin wala). It was a flesh wound in the breast but did not penetrate deep. Oh well. Lessons learned.

    Thank you gentlemen for the talk, the trip and the tips. Looking forward to doing it again
    We can do anytime. Was great fun! What do you plan to do with the winners when they heal?

  23. #293
    Senior Member The Saint's Avatar
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    Re: Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

    Quote Originally Posted by Joey Hidalgo View Post
    We can do anytime. Was great fun! What do you plan to do with the winners when they heal?
    for sure they will feel the heat of battle and blade again... be it in the pit or at your firing range

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    Re: Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

    Quote Originally Posted by The Saint View Post
    for sure they will feel the heat of battle and blade again... be it in the pit or at your firing range
    Totally agree. Markmanship and best weapons are essentially determined when the firing range is frequented. And not to mention the importance of self confidence and chicken soup to the soul.

  25. #295
    Senior Member Joey Hidalgo's Avatar
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    Re: Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

    ay sarap the chicken soup after firing range

  26. #296
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    Re: Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

    Sirs Joey, jailbird and the saint, it was a pleasure meeting you all and learn a lot from the experiments that were interesting and educational. Sir jailbird appears to be a veteran magtatari and knife enthusiast. The discussion of right angling of the knives is key and crucial in the sport. Sir Joey's set up in San Pedro is impressive and unique. I am interested in finding out more about possibilities there. Once I settle here in the province, I would like the group to get together at our place for more chicken talk. I understand there is a tari maker here in the area by the name of boy Vargas who we can invite for more exchanges of info and knowledge on the subject. Regards.

  27. #297
    Senior Member Joey Hidalgo's Avatar
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    Re: Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

    Sir Biak na Bato, Boy Vargas of Pitbull gamefarm is a good friend of mine. He just stays in Lipa. We can visit him anytime, nice to chicken talk with him especially when they make Bulalo. Sir Jailbird, si Boy Vargas is the guy I also make TARE TARE with, and was telling you about

  28. #298
    Member Giman's Avatar
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    Re: Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

    Quote Originally Posted by Joey Hidalgo View Post
    Sir Biak na Bato, Boy Vargas of Pitbull gamefarm is a good friend of mine. He just stays in Lipa. We can visit him anytime, nice to chicken talk with him especially when they make Bulalo. Sir Jailbird, si Boy Vargas is the guy I also make TARE TARE with, and was telling you about
    if you meet him in his place, don't forget to take pictures with his python.. hehe

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    Re: Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

    Quote Originally Posted by takohunter01 View Post
    what is the best steel that people use no days? or what is the best?
    Fully hardened power hacksaw blades are best if you order from knife makers. Any cheap steel that can be easily tempered to a hardness of about 57-60 in the rockwell scale if you want to make your own. Just my 2 cents.

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    Re: Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

    Quote Originally Posted by The Saint View Post
    I forgot to mention (and to give credit where credit is due) that Jailbird (aka tari guru) tied the surat on the other bird that won. First time for him to tie a surat and already deadly effective... Same with good roosters, Jailbird can put any weapon on a capable cock and make it deadly.
    I am guessing though that you have to convince sir Jailbird and sir Joey with your Adjustable Sockets Knives the next time you visit the firing range. Sounds like all of you were not satisfied with the surat's performance. I don't have any experience with it at all but, from pictures of it that I've seen, it doesn't meet the requirements that I desire in a knife. But I can see that you are
    still experimenting with it so we'll be looking forward to your final evaluation about it.

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