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Thread: Is there a Gamefowl Conditioning Camp (pay) here in Metro Manila Area?

  
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    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Is there a Gamefowl Conditioning Camp (pay) here in Metro Manila Area?

    Is there an existing gamefowl conditioning camp that is open to third party clients here in Metro Manila? Where we could bring our roosters to be conditioned and pointed for a derby or some fights?
    If any please post name of camp, owner, handler, location and fees please. Thanks!!!!

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    Senior Member Zacdaddy77's Avatar
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    Re: Is there a Gamefowl Conditioning Camp (pay) here in Metro Manila Area?

    Quote Originally Posted by jailbird View Post
    Is there an existing gamefowl conditioning camp that is open to third party clients here in Metro Manila? Where we could bring our roosters to be conditioned and pointed for a derby or some fights?
    If any please post name of camp, owner, handler, location and fees please. Thanks!!!!

    I've consider doing this (for a living). However I don't think many people would want to pay my kind of money for my conditioning. I feel there are too many opinions and trust issues for this type of business to be successful.


    ,Zac

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    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: Is there a Gamefowl Conditioning Camp (pay) here in Metro Manila Area?

    Thanks ZacDaddy. we are considering putting one up here in Sucat very near the skyway. Its going to be initially for our own use, but we will accept paying "boarders". This will mean outlining exactly what we will do. If there are existing ones and they are doing well already we don't want to spoil their business. if there are none, though, we would appreciate inputs on what you would expect from such a service provider.

    Hope to hear from one and all :-)

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    Senior Member jungold's Avatar
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    Cool Re: Is there a Gamefowl Conditioning Camp (pay) here in Metro Manila Area?

    Quote Originally Posted by jailbird View Post
    Is there an existing gamefowl conditioning camp that is open to third party clients here in Metro Manila? Where we could bring our roosters to be conditioned and pointed for a derby or some fights?
    If any please post name of camp, owner, handler, location and fees please. Thanks!!!!

    Bro specify where do You want to Fight's , Big Time Derbies in Manila or Rural pit's against some bigtime breeder's?....Thanks....

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    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: Is there a Gamefowl Conditioning Camp (pay) here in Metro Manila Area?

    Hi Jungold, i dont really consider our fights bigtime. We join the derbies in San Juan, including the Rambulan and other regular derbies. We also join Bakbakan, usually we have 2 -4 entries for each of those.

    The are several 5 cock derbies in Roligon we usually join. The reat are the association derbies in Daang Hari for UCBA, and in Pangasinan also for the association. We will join RGBA this year because of our farm operation in Rizal.

    Occassionally we get invited and join some fastest kill ulutan etc, but that is only to make some friends happy.

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    Re: Is there a Gamefowl Conditioning Camp (pay) here in Metro Manila Area?

    That will work especially if you are an excellent conditioner...That is a good idea..so practical.

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    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: Is there a Gamefowl Conditioning Camp (pay) here in Metro Manila Area?

    Thanks Dirpa26, we will employ, train and manage handlers. The basic system is an upgrade of what TJT teaches. My bro went through his seminar a few years back and we have adapted many if not all of his techniques plus a few modifications to "enhance" the program.
    We also have access to customized feeds, properly balanced by full time veterinary nutritionists.
    Hopefully we can set up a facility which will take into account the most basic of layouts so activities could be managed well. Ths should include biosecurity (quarantine and screening for new arrivals), proper segregation and sanitation.

    With a location within an hour of any major fight locale, we can provide even camp to pit transporatation, dedicated stalls/pens, accessories including gauges for temperature and humidity measurements at the venue.

    Sometimes when the aircondutioners conk out in cockhouses handlers dont have the basic equipment to handle the situation ( happened to us in Roligon), it could be disastrous. With a well equipped camp, an entry can be certain many of his fighters needs will be anticipated.

    So that as little as possible of their fighting potential is hampered. And minimize deoendence on luck.


    The biggest

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    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: Is there a Gamefowl Conditioning Camp (pay) here in Metro Manila Area?

    The biggest challenge for a camp is simply to bring out the maximum potentials of the roosters after all the breeding and selection efforts. In the end, there is nothing a conditioning system can do to ensure winning. Only to bring out the best a rooster has in him.

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    Senior Member Zacdaddy77's Avatar
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    Re: Is there a Gamefowl Conditioning Camp (pay) here in Metro Manila Area?

    Quote Originally Posted by jailbird View Post
    Thanks ZacDaddy. we are considering putting one up here in Sucat very near the skyway. Its going to be initially for our own use, but we will accept paying "boarders". This will mean outlining exactly what we will do. If there are existing ones and they are doing well already we don't want to spoil their business. if there are none, though, we would appreciate inputs on what you would expect from such a service provider.

    Hope to hear from one and all :-)

    I have an outline somewhere (on my old laptop I think) of the cost, expenses ect.... For it to be worth my time, I'd have to charge around $150. per head for my full conditioning method of 4-6 weeks. Considering the number of people I know that like to buy $300. trios and ship them to Manila, I just assumed there wouldn't be a strong market at that price. I'm sure it could be priced cheaper though.

    ,Zac

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    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: Is there a Gamefowl Conditioning Camp (pay) here in Metro Manila Area?

    Hi Zac, our estimate (this is very rough) for the basic cost is about Pesos 2,800 per bird for a month - 1 week quarantine cord and 3 weeks conditioning keep proper with all meds and direct employed labor and overhead. Thats about US75 per bird.
    Per show or derby, transport (airconditioned van) watchers, consummables, use of equipment should be around around P8,000 or about US 190-200. If its a 5 cock derby, that will be another $40 per head. It will include on site set up, pointing, gaffing and pitting services. Surgery and treatment for winners (assuming they will be brought home by the owners after the fight should cost no more than P500 or around 10-12 dollars.

    Note that those are all costs. Maybe the camp can get compensated on a per win basis, 100% of the handlers and gaffers fees, and share of any prize money.

    Currently -for our present arrangements - we split the prize money this way:

    1. Owner of birds 40%
    2. Financier 40%
    3. Conditioner 20 %

    The financier pays for the entry fee and all the expenses. He has naming rights to the entry and "owns" the entry. The winning birds revert to the owners. The conditioner gets the handlers prizes and gaffers prizes (if gaff services are provided - sometimes the financiers/owners prefer their own gaffers)

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    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: Is there a Gamefowl Conditioning Camp (pay) here in Metro Manila Area?

    Per win is usually a matter of agreement with the financier. Highflyers usually are very generous and newbies always penny pinching hahahaha but thats understandable. Actually that should be the easiest part cause it comes only with a win. This is very important for as it serves as the incentive for the staff since winning the championship is really a low probability considering the level of competition.

    Most financiers make their money back on a 60-70 percent win ratio for the show. I warn them that the entry needs o win 3 out of 4 or 4 out of 5 before they make any money. But this is a sport of optimists and camaraderie and fun is priceless. If you want returns on your money, look elsewhere :-) you are more likely to part with it in this sport.

    Only the breeders, pit operators, feed manufacturers and industry suppliers are in business. The betting part is always a risk, and the bettor will be happy to come out intact. Fair warning to all.

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    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: Is there a Gamefowl Conditioning Camp (pay) here in Metro Manila Area?

    Would appreciate info on what you cockers out there think a conditioning camp should have and the service it should provide. Eg upload a video of the spars and the actual fight. Whatever you as cockers thibk will make it worth it for you.

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    CyberFriends jlbs72's Avatar
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    Re: Is there a Gamefowl Conditioning Camp (pay) here in Metro Manila Area?

    Usually known handlers charge between 1K to 2K PHP a month for conditioning expenses.

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    Re: Is there a Gamefowl Conditioning Camp (pay) here in Metro Manila Area?

    Quote Originally Posted by jailbird View Post
    Would appreciate info on what you cockers out there think a conditioning camp should have and the service it should provide. Eg upload a video of the spars and the actual fight. Whatever you as cockers thibk will make it worth it for you.
    How about liabilities? Any insurance? just in case the cocks that are being condition for the derby is damage, die or maybe got stolen by any thiefs that got into your facilities during the conditioning.
    Last edited by ezil25; December 4th, 2011 at 10:06 PM.

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    Re: Is there a Gamefowl Conditioning Camp (pay) here in Metro Manila Area?

    wouldn't work, we have are own handlers, cockers from other islands, either have cond areas setup in the manila area, or thru friends. if you have a cond area, why would you be invovled between the breeder & financier, you wouldn't be, most likely you would only be paid if the fowl won. your price is way too high, per head, than 20% of the purse. besides the best handler is one that is familiar with your fowl.

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    CyberFriends gamecock96's Avatar
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    Re: Is there a Gamefowl Conditioning Camp (pay) here in Metro Manila Area?

    Quote Originally Posted by kali ises View Post
    wouldn't work, we have are own handlers, cockers from other islands, either have cond areas setup in the manila area, or thru friends. if you have a cond area, why would you be invovled between the breeder & financier, you wouldn't be, most likely you would only be paid if the fowl won. your price is way too high, per head, than 20% of the purse. besides the best handler is one that is familiar with your fowl.
    Based on what i read, i think they are charging a set conditioning FEE aside from all the Prizes.

    My opinion on this is that, only bigtime cockers would have to be able to shoulder expense like that. Imagine even before you fight the chicken, you already have to shell out around 5000 per head just for conditioning and travel plus allowance in the pit. Plus value of the rooster, you have to bet 16500 and WIN just to break even per rooster. If you loose one fight then you will never recoup. Now, people that would go with an arrangement like this has to bet a min. of 55k .

    Al

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    Senior Member jungold's Avatar
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    Smile Re: Is there a Gamefowl Conditioning Camp (pay) here in Metro Manila Area?

    Quote Originally Posted by jailbird View Post
    Hi Jungold, i dont really consider our fights bigtime. We join the derbies in San Juan, including the Rambulan and other regular derbies. We also join Bakbakan, usually we have 2 -4 entries for each of those.

    The are several 5 cock derbies in Roligon we usually join. The reat are the association derbies in Daang Hari for UCBA, and in Pangasinan also for the association. We will join RGBA this year because of our farm operation in Rizal.

    Occassionally we get invited and join some fastest kill ulutan etc, but that is only to make some friends happy.
    So the nearest place/ location is in between Rizal , Laguna & Cavite , lot's of ground I'd say , when I was fighting in Roligon & Cavite all my gamecocks are in cavite , while my farm is in Rizal , I attend all the derbies there ... I'll asked some guys in cavite if there are still some conditioning place , Thanks...

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    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: Is there a Gamefowl Conditioning Camp (pay) here in Metro Manila Area?

    Thanks for your inputs guys! Keep em coming.

    The 40:40:20 arrangement is what we currently practice now : me being the financier ;-) and yes it is expensive. But when i think of it, the breeder owner needs to give his best roosters, and the handler conditioner so much of his time and effort and skills - and since the prize is won, we actually give balato pa whenever we win the championship. And this is not very often. And prizes are not really that big, especially if you have 2 or 3 champs.

    On a financing arrangement, out of 10 derbies joined, swerte na to win 1 championship. So many times you only get runner up or simple majority win. There are times na bokya pa ;-)

    And yes the costs i estimated are quite high, simply because those are the costs we incur nowadays. A van w driver will cost P3,500 per day. Staff are paid minimum wage and T least 2 are needed on fight day.

    Thats why we are looking for a nearby facility. A professional facility.

    We also had our fill of handlers who would work for food and a per win of 1000-1500 using your facilities etc. But it may just be us, but usually it ends up bad. Drunkards, addicts, troublemakers -maybe not all, but these are usually people who cant hold a job long- thats why they are so cheap and dime a dozen. And if they are really good, they get hired permanently.

    Anyway, appreciate all the inputs!!!! Insurance is a great idea. I'll as a friend in that business how to insure transients against theft. But thats going to be additional cost. A security guard will be another option but thats not 100 percent foolproof.

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    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: Is there a Gamefowl Conditioning Camp (pay) here in Metro Manila Area?

    Quote Originally Posted by gamecock96 View Post
    Based on what i read, i think they are charging a set conditioning FEE aside from all the Prizes.

    My opinion on this is that, only bigtime cockers would have to be able to shoulder expense like that. Imagine even before you fight the chicken, you already have to shell out around 5000 per head just for conditioning and travel plus allowance in the pit. Plus value of the rooster, you have to bet 16500 and WIN just to break even per rooster. If you loose one fight then you will never recoup. Now, people that would go with an arrangement like this has to bet a min. of 55k .

    Al
    Thanks Gamecock96 yes you hit it on the nail. If its a 16,500 bet you need to be champ to make money.

    If you bet P55,000 you break even with a majority win.

    Not a good financial proposition? Yup because even with a 16,500 bet if you lose all in a 5 cock show, thats already 82,500 plus expenses so you will need over a hundred grand to begin with.

    So why do we still do it? Hahahahahahahaha cause almost all of us are crazies :-)

    The only difference is we quantified the costs. Many backyard, or even integrated breeder, conditioner, handler, gaffer, vet operations under one roof simply dont make a proper accounting so they may actually be spending a lot more already. Thats just my opinion.

    Thanks to all.

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    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: Is there a Gamefowl Conditioning Camp (pay) here in Metro Manila Area?

    Not to mention the entry fee!!!!!

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    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: Is there a Gamefowl Conditioning Camp (pay) here in Metro Manila Area?

    Quote Originally Posted by kali ises View Post
    wouldn't work, we have are own handlers, cockers from other islands, either have cond areas setup in the manila area, or thru friends. if you have a cond area, why would you be invovled between the breeder & financier, you wouldn't be, most likely you would only be paid if the fowl won. your price is way too high, per head, than 20% of the purse. besides the best handler is one that is familiar with your fowl.
    Thanks Sir, yes you are right. If you have friends or a place to use, thats the ebst option, especially if you have all the staff. That means you have a fulltime farm and jsut need temporary facilities.

    We also do that especially when generous friends allow use of their facilities. I have one or two friends in silang who lend me their A1 facilities. But the again, there are even more issues using a friends farm. IMHO, best to keep the friendship rather than complicate it with "pag momolestiya".

    Besides, the cost of tickets for the staff from bacolod, theor board and lodging. And sometimes their behaviour while in your friends farm, hehehehe that can be complicated.

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    Re: Is there a Gamefowl Conditioning Camp (pay) here in Metro Manila Area?

    I think it can work. It will be like a gamefowl conditioning facility run properly as such. The industry is expanding right now that there are specialists cropping up. I met one recently in Bacolod whose facility was geared for conditioning stags for the upcoming derbies and there were a number of clients. I understand the charge was per head and I assume the length of stay would be a month approximately. Full time breeders probably use them when they test their stags and others who may be based in the other islands. I am not aware of such a facility in metro Manila or if there are conditioners that offer their services as such. If there is a demand, it may not be a far fetched idea at all.

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    Re: Is there a Gamefowl Conditioning Camp (pay) here in Metro Manila Area?

    jailbird, anyone fighting in bigtime derbys will have their own handler, facilities, your talking about being a financier which is different than just conditioning fowl, much better if you just bought the fowl & conditioned them yourselves.

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    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: Is there a Gamefowl Conditioning Camp (pay) here in Metro Manila Area?

    Quote Originally Posted by biak na bato View Post
    I think it can work. It will be like a gamefowl conditioning facility run properly as such. The industry is expanding right now that there are specialists cropping up. I met one recently in Bacolod whose facility was geared for conditioning stags for the upcoming derbies and there were a number of clients. I understand the charge was per head and I assume the length of stay would be a month approximately. Full time breeders probably use them when they test their stags and others who may be based in the other islands. I am not aware of such a facility in metro Manila or if there are conditioners that offer their services as such. If there is a demand, it may not be a far fetched idea at all.
    Yes i heard about that bacolod facility. Thats what started us looking for one in metro manila. Will take time to locate them next time i go home to Silay. Baka ma "franchise" nila system nila ;-)

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    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: Is there a Gamefowl Conditioning Camp (pay) here in Metro Manila Area?

    Quote Originally Posted by kali ises View Post
    jailbird, anyone fighting in bigtime derbys will have their own handler, facilities, your talking about being a financier which is different than just conditioning fowl, much better if you just bought the fowl & conditioned them yourselves.
    Yes sir. We have a breeding operation now in Rizal. We are transferring all our broodstock from Pangasinan. We have a decent conditioning facility in Sta Barbara Pangasinan, but travelling to Manila is still a big hassle. And its such a long trip going there.

    We may have to pursue the conditioning camp here in Sucat. Am taking note of all your inputs so we can also do some accomodation of overseas cockers who want to have their roosters fought here.

    It will just be a stones throw away from Naia, so anyone shipping thru Fred Cruz, we can pick up the roosters usually during their 5 am arrival. So many possibilities :-)

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    Re: Is there a Gamefowl Conditioning Camp (pay) here in Metro Manila Area?

    jailbird, we fight in manila, travel from bataan to manila, not a problem, so your addressing overseas cockers, most breeders from the states already have the backing of someone in the pi, the cost is little if anything for them, majority will ship their fowl to the pi 1 year before they fight, let them molt once in the pi.

    bacolod is a different situation than manila, breeders are a much closer group (assuming if they are fighting stag derbies, local assoc), setting up a conditioning farm much cheaper, easier to find good handlers & farm boys (much cheaper also), if breeders are using the conditioning farm in bacolod, whoever is the handler is very well know to them, not an unknown handler for sure.

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    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: Is there a Gamefowl Conditioning Camp (pay) here in Metro Manila Area?

    Yup, basically the market is probably just me hahahaha. Or people like me.
    Those who just dont have the time but still want to enjoy the fights.
    People who finance entries. Or who can buy roosters and pay for their entries themselves and bet the required amounts but dont want to maintain handlers, staff and facilities.

  28. #28
    Senior Member Camarines's Avatar
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    Re: Is there a Gamefowl Conditioning Camp (pay) here in Metro Manila Area?

    There was a website of a cock motel. This one is I believe one of the conditioning camp around there.
    http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/17472159

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    Senior Member Camarines's Avatar
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    Re: Is there a Gamefowl Conditioning Camp (pay) here in Metro Manila Area?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camarines View Post
    There was a website of a cock motel. This one is I believe one of the conditioning camp around there.
    http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/17472159
    http://www.thecockmotel.110mb.com/

  30. #30
    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: Is there a Gamefowl Conditioning Camp (pay) here in Metro Manila Area?

    Thanks Sir Camarines, i will try to contact them. Their system seems to be a lodging place for people from the provinces, they provide lodging and conditioning facilities but client has to bring his own handlers. They have board and lodging facilities. They also provide transport to the cockpit and have several vehicles available.
    Nice concept also, especially for those who live in the northern metro Manila area.
    I wonder if anyone has tried the facility already?
    Also any feedback?


    On the side, my good friend Boyet Plaza is proud that his brother Eddie Bong and Nephew Randolph bagged the bakbakan co championsip. He says that 4 of the stags used were White Chocolates - im feel so lucky i have one pure white chocolate broodcock he gave to me 3 years back. Hope to propagate now that the offspring have been bred back to him.

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