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Thread: Japs Japs Japs

  
  1. #691
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    Re: Japs Japs Japs

    >Maybe we can develop another national treasure :-)

    That is a way we keep our tradition in various fields.

    Jebe
    I do not say Yakido is a good breeding material for long knife fight but interesting chicken worth to experiment as enjoyment and hobby.
    If we are so lucky we are able to have the real japs with knowing it`s original name.

  2. #692
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    Re: Japs Japs Japs

    Jebe
    >The Boles fowls from Bobby that he gifted to the late Monching Mitra would have to be bred cockside as no hens was given. Mitra bred the fowls from Bobby to his Mitra56 lines and to the local native Parawakan from Palawan while Serge Capistrano bred-crossed it to Western fowls.

    I do understand a secret of Mitra`s oriental breeding.
    I mean his way of selecting material.

    >Serge also use a big fowl coming from Japan, brought as an egg by a Filipina and hatched here. Serge said that they fought the stags at less than 10 months as at over a year they are too big. He also said it's a line of fowl a Japanese syndicate use in their cock fights.

    Hehehe I easily realize where they are come from and how they are now .
    They are big type shamo , more than 3.4kg in common.
    Need eyes of selection and long time of patience, plus LUCK.

    >I also bred the Boles halves from Serge cock side. I only bred brother-sister 1x on certain blends. I develop as many families from a single cock to find out where they blend best, breed back or crisscross the better blends for prepotency according to a certain set of standard. I had on different ocassions purchased 3 more halves from Serge to beef -up the line. I 'm happy maintaining and retaining the Boles dom, blacks and had develop Oriental blends in different proportions of asil/japs to maintain and retain the lines, the 4 Boles halves are all bred into one bred to a certain set of standard.

    I have never bred japanese chickens by myself there in PH but I am watching a result of chicken I brought and gifted to my friends there.
    I learn much from them then I have mine at my backyard by help of my wife.
    After 3 or 4month later I will start japs breeding with Armallite Grey pullets , Melsim/Sandy Hatcn stag,
    My first try is with 1/2 Yakido 1/4 blackShamo 1/4 blackSatsuma.

  3. #693
    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Hi Masao that last post was by Don B - im new with the japs. The one I have I just acquired last year :-)

  4. #694
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    Re: Japs Japs Japs

    don b

    BIG SORRY !!!!!

  5. #695
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    Re: Japs Japs Japs

    don b

    Big shamo for naked fight is not suited for long knfe as material ?
    Cause of his size and slow move, single stroke ?

    I know you are a veteran oriental breeding.
    I need a knowledge from your experience .

    masao

  6. #696
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    Re: Japs Japs Japs

    Thanks Jebe.

    You are always a real gentleman , I respect you.
    No joking.

  7. #697
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    Re: Japs Japs Japs

    Hi All,
    Nice discussion,
    I hope you guys could continue to share some inputs & ideas about this JAP's breeding.. very informative to me & to others..
    I'm one of the "JAP" avid fan...
    Rgds
    xbox




  8. #698
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    Re: Japs Japs Japs


    Red Jap over hatch pullets !



    Black Mug over black Jap hens
    Last edited by KNIFEROOSTER; January 4th, 2013 at 01:55 PM.

  9. #699
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    Re: Japs Japs Japs

    those are some beautiful animals kniferooster

  10. #700
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    Re: Japs Japs Japs

    Yakido fiesta ( ??? ) now .

    competitor
    >around 2.4-2.6kg @ 2.5kg

    xbox00x
    >My opinion ranging approximately 2.2 ~ 2.4 kg @ 2.3kg

    gamecock96
    > Looks close to 2.8 to 3kg to me..... @ 2.9kg

    don b
    >3-3.3 wild guess @ 3.15kg


    rockislandred
    >I'll guess 3.3 - 3.5 @ 3.4kg

    jailbird
    >My guess is 1.9 to 2.1 kg @ 2.0kg

    enash54
    >2.6-2.8, wild guess @ 2.7kg

    tornadowhite @ 2.650 kg

    menterosa @ 2.8 kg

  11. #701
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    Re: Japs Japs Japs

    First of all, it starts with review.
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWrP2W6Cq_Q"]EPSN0964 - YouTube[/ame]
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDeZdqZt6ns&feature=related"]EPSN0782 - YouTube[/ame]
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9ST32HvoYE"]EPSN0912 - YouTube[/ame]
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZq8RJRWyN4"]EPSN0913 - YouTube[/ame]
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLIS-CEFcOc"]EPSN0752 - YouTube[/ame]

    These blacks are from my eggs of Yakido/Satsuma gifted to one japanese .
    Now no more info come from him .

  12. #702
    Senior Member ichiko's Avatar
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    Re: Japs Japs Japs

    Sir Masao,

    May i join also? My guess is 3 kg. Thanks.

  13. #703
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    Re: Japs Japs Japs

    welcome

    ichiko
    >My guess is 3 kg @ 3.0 kg

  14. #704
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    Re: Japs Japs Japs

    my observation from videos above
    They show common style but better than my imagination as straight japanese pet chicken cross. But when I saw sevral times 1/2 blood crossed to western at pit they showed better fight and well suited to long knife , a bit lack of speed though.
    I was so impressed when I saw their cutting ability , in another saying UNIQUE cutting.
    On thing I disapointed is that one stopped pecking , just watching an opponent on a ground . Draw !!!
    This happened more than 4 years ago.

  15. #705
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    Re: Japs Japs Japs

    Cross on videos is Yakido/Satsuma.
    1/2 blood is Satsuma/western or western/Satsuma, Satsuma looking one

  16. #706
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    Re: Japs Japs Japs

    Quote Originally Posted by masao View Post
    my observation from videos above
    They show common style but better than my imagination as straight japanese pet chicken cross. But when I saw sevral times 1/2 blood crossed to western at pit they showed better fight and well suited to long knife , a bit lack of speed though.
    I was so impressed when I saw their cutting ability , in another saying UNIQUE cutting.
    On thing I disapointed is that one stopped pecking , just watching an opponent on a ground . Draw !!!
    This happened more than 4 years ago.

    Sir Masao,

    These Yakido/Satsuma spar a lot like my Rampuri family.

    I like more the 1/2 Yakido - 1/2 Shamo, seems like the Yak/Shamo might not be as quick, but have more power, better defense & make better contact to the body. Looks like to me, their style graded to something like a good lemon family would improve their agility and keep the smart fighting style, and might give a lot of clean wins. Did you have a chance to try the Yak/Shamo graded to a Western line already so you could compare them?

    FIS,

    Jerry

  17. #707
    Senior Member blades61's Avatar
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    Re: Japs Japs Japs

    i had a couple black gowdy jap hens i let a buddy have one and kept the other i have a good line of hatch has anyone crossed hatch over jap and what were the results i am new to the orientals and just need a little advise i have other lines but thought i would try the hatch. thanks for any help.

  18. #708
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    Re: Japs Japs Japs

    Hi Jerry

    >I like more the 1/2 Yakido - 1/2 Shamo, seems like the Yak/Shamo might not be as quick, but have more power, better defense & make better contact to the body. Looks like to me,

    Yes, I agree . That is why I have stopped Yakido/Satsuma crossing.
    Before this combinatiion I tried Shamo/Satsuma , Satsuma/Shamo the result was not satisfactory . After watching these result I looked for new here in Japan.
    As you see there are 2 type of fightingcock in Japan , Shamo is fighting underground and Satsuma is past fightingcock now as pet.
    I found new , that is Yakido which have been produced as sparring partner of shamo.
    At that time I had no knowledge about his fighting ability just imaging small type of shamo. Out of my imagination he showed good move which would be suited for long knife. Yakido is also a pet as same as Satsuma nowaday though.
    Then I mated him to Shamo hen, this is Yakido/Shamo.

    >their style graded to something like a good lemon family would improve their agility and keep the smart fighting style, and might give a lot of clean wins. Did you have a chance to try the Yak/Shamo graded to a Western line already so you could compare them?

    Not yet . This year is my first year of oriental breeding at my backyard there.
    Now I am preparing some for 1/2Yakido 1/4shamo1/4satsuma.
    Armallite Grey pullets, MelsimHatch/Sandy hatch stag,speed with powerful cutting type
    Cowan cock, speed with clever fight type.

  19. #709
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    Re: Japs Japs Japs

    blades61

    That is for SK ?

  20. #710
    Senior Member competitor's Avatar
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    Re: Japs Japs Japs

    SIR MASAO,I JUST WANT TO SHARE THIS VIDEO OF THE STAG FOUGHT BY OUR FRINED HERE SIR JAILBIRD...HE'S A 1/2 JIM CLEM JAP 1/2 YLH....

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgPeowo-_lk"]Competitor's Red w Dirty Yellow Leg Grade - YouTube[/ame]

  21. #711
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    Re: Japs Japs Japs

    Thanks ,competitor

    It is a real finished product.
    I hope that we could produce such high quality oriental grade.
    Is Jim`s japs graded to western bird ?

  22. #712
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    Re: Japs Japs Japs

    Quote Originally Posted by masao View Post
    Hi Jerry

    >I like more the 1/2 Yakido - 1/2 Shamo, seems like the Yak/Shamo might not be as quick, but have more power, better defense & make better contact to the body. Looks like to me,

    Yes, I agree . That is why I have stopped Yakido/Satsuma crossing.
    Before this combinatiion I tried Shamo/Satsuma , Satsuma/Shamo the result was not satisfactory . After watching these result I looked for new here in Japan.
    As you see there are 2 type of fightingcock in Japan , Shamo is fighting underground and Satsuma is past fightingcock now as pet.
    I found new , that is Yakido which have been produced as sparring partner of shamo.
    At that time I had no knowledge about his fighting ability just imaging small type of shamo. Out of my imagination he showed good move which would be suited for long knife. Yakido is also a pet as same as Satsuma nowaday though.
    Then I mated him to Shamo hen, this is Yakido/Shamo.

    >their style graded to something like a good lemon family would improve their agility and keep the smart fighting style, and might give a lot of clean wins. Did you have a chance to try the Yak/Shamo graded to a Western line already so you could compare them?

    Not yet . This year is my first year of oriental breeding at my backyard there.
    Now I am preparing some for 1/2Yakido 1/4shamo1/4satsuma.
    Armallite Grey pullets, MelsimHatch/Sandy hatch stag,speed with powerful cutting type
    Cowan cock, speed with clever fight type.

    Good luck Sir Masao, I think you got a solid Oriental platform to work with in the Yak/Shamo. Just a matter of finding the "nick" that polishes them.



    Quote Originally Posted by competitor View Post
    SIR MASAO,I JUST WANT TO SHARE THIS VIDEO OF THE STAG FOUGHT BY OUR FRINED HERE SIR JAILBIRD...HE'S A 1/2 JIM CLEM JAP 1/2 YLH....

    Competitor's Red w Dirty Yellow Leg Grade - YouTube
    Sir Competitor, he's very athletic & he's got a difficult style to beat! So quick and throws the uppercut like a real pro, not easy to get a shot at him ... I'd hate to look across the pit and see one like that!

    FIS,

    Jerry

  23. #713
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    Re: Japs Japs Japs

    next review of Satsuma

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlfZoDHzHLk"]Satsuma Play - YouTube[/ame]
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx87Bvup2NY"]Satsumadori VS Bobby jones Kelso - YouTube[/ame]
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVKvDIr1GJ4"]Satsumadori VS Kelso - YouTube[/ame]
    white satsuma vs shamo
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmOL_irjXcY"]薩摩VS軍鶏 - YouTube[/ame]

  24. #714
    Senior Member xxxian21's Avatar
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    Re: Japs Japs Japs

    let me join sir Masao, around 2.650-2.7KG

  25. #715
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    Re: Japs Japs Japs

    ichiko
    >My guess is 3 kg @ 3.0 kg

    xxxian21
    >let me join sir Masao, around 2.650-2.7KG @ 2.675 kg

  26. #716
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    Re: Japs Japs Japs

    cockmates

    May I ask you any input about bro-sis mating ?
    I have 2 group of Yakido/Shamo , 1/2 and 3/4 here in Japan.
    Am I able to do bro-sis mating ?
    If I do not see any problem I can easily produce 1/2 family and 3/4 family .
    Advanced thanks and happy day

    masao

  27. #717
    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masao View Post
    cockmates

    May I ask you any input about bro-sis mating ?
    I have 2 group of Yakido/Shamo , 1/2 and 3/4 here in Japan.
    Am I able to do bro-sis mating ?
    If I do not see any problem I can easily produce 1/2 family and 3/4 family .
    Advanced thanks and happy day

    masao
    Hi Masao, I have tried bro sis matings in several occasions and I think its a very good way to bring out the best and the worst of the genes inside the birds.

    With our western fowl, starting from a highly inbred brood cock bred to his sister we only produced two stags. One was blind and the other very small. The blindness was progressive it started out healthy then when he became a stag he was completely blind. The blind one was culled when the feeder noticed that he was losing weight as he could not not find the food anymore.

    The small stag was a super fighter but at 1.5 kg we did not fight him. Eventually he moulted out to be 1.650 - slightly heavier but still small and too small to fight. We bred him back to his mother as the original pair would not produce any fertile eggs anymore. And the offspring were normal. We keep them for gene pool sake.

    These highly inbred fowl are so infertile with each other now but if we breed them to another line - they produce extremely good crosses. The 50:50 cross females are our foundation stocks to make 3-4 way crossed battlefowl. The nice thing about 3 way crosses is thay there is a very high percentage of good output.

    So if you want to build a foundation blood I would recommend doing brother sister about 3 generations but always choosing the same phenotype. And same fighting style you like.

    It wont have a very high coefficient of inbreeding but when you outcross them to other inbred fowl of the same style or phenotype you will get very good HYBRID VIGOR already in the characteristics you prefer.

    The only problem with this system is that you will need to maintain several yards of grandparent stock :-) and you produce fighting grandchildren.

    Well I hope this makes sense hahahaha
    Last edited by jailbird; January 6th, 2013 at 10:29 AM.

  28. #718
    Senior Member don b's Avatar
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    Re: Japs Japs Japs

    Quote Originally Posted by masao View Post
    cockmates

    May I ask you any input about bro-sis mating ?
    I have 2 group of Yakido/Shamo , 1/2 and 3/4 here in Japan.
    Am I able to do bro-sis mating ?
    If I do not see any problem I can easily produce 1/2 family and 3/4 family .
    Advanced thanks and happy day

    masao
    i did bred brother/sis mate on certain throwbacks out from the Boles halves I got from Serge in absence of a female to develop a henline in different ocassions.

    you will never know until you try. Just wanted to see what comes out. find out what it is you want or what are you looking for? Set a set of standard on your breeding.

    Incest inbreeding on Orientals is not advisable since we are breeding them to fight and they could revert back to be more exotic and slow again? But then it's your choice on how to select the individuals you produce to set those traits you would like to discard or retain.

    For performance I would advice to develop as many families or lines to find out where they would blend best and crisscross the better blends or breed back to mother or father to upgrade the line.Blending the best you are breeding for prepotency. Consistency in produce and performance, that if you see one you have seen them all, it can be achieve much further since grades would always be stronger and easier to raise, again it's a matter of setting a standard of selection for 3- 5 more years of filtration. Camouflaging, yes, you can camo.....the angle of the tail would tell it all on how they were bred.

    Yes, shamo's would single stroke, but water them down to 1/4-1/8 less to a lemon, those single strokes would be reaching out much longer-faster with a quick deadly frontal snap (taga) in which could baffle their western counterparts. Unorthodox style?
    Last edited by don b; January 6th, 2013 at 11:10 AM.

  29. #719
    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    uploadfromtaptalk1357440695358.jpg

    uploadfromtaptalk1357440735467.jpg

    uploadfromtaptalk1357440789778.jpg

    Three bros from bro-sis mating 2nd generation. The straight comb still appears so the peacombed winner is mated to his peacombed sister. Hopefully by the 3rd gen they will all be peacombed like the greatgreat grandad ;-)

  30. #720
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    Re: Japs Japs Japs

    Quote Originally Posted by masao View Post
    cockmates

    May I ask you any input about bro-sis mating ?
    I have 2 group of Yakido/Shamo , 1/2 and 3/4 here in Japan.
    Am I able to do bro-sis mating ?
    If I do not see any problem I can easily produce 1/2 family and 3/4 family .
    Advanced thanks and happy day

    masao

    I think the Bro/Sis mating would be fine as you probably won't need to be too concerned about small size for several generations because they seem to be a bit large at present. As bro JB mentioned, It will give you a chance to select the best birds to continue the line after each successive Bro/Sis mating.

    Also you can keep a selected pair from the original 1/2 & 1/2, and a pair from the original 3/4 matings in reserve, to be bred back into the family after several Generations (maybe 3 or 4), of Bro/Sis matings. This selected pair will be set aside and not used in any of the Bro/Sis matings. It's only purpose is to be used to freshen the Offspring of the Bro/Sis matings when the time comes. You can keep it going a long time like this. If you don't have room to keep a pair of each, maybe you could keep a pullet of each instead of the pair.

    If me, I'll also make a 5/8 - 3/8 mating each way, just to see if it's better. Since you already have both the 1/2 & 1/2 and the 3/4 families, it would be relatively easy to do. I have gotten more consistency in the past from the 5/8 - 3/8 matings than the 1/2 & 1/2 matings.

    FIS,

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