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Thread: 12 hours before fight day

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    12 hours before fight day

    No water and no food for your birds 12 hours before the fight?

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    Senior Member springwater's Avatar
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    Re: 12 hours before fight day

    I always gave their last feeding around 18 hours before derby start. I would allow them a chance to get a drink at this time although most wont take any water or if they do its just a quick dip. Then about 6 hours before derby start I would give them another chance to drink although they shouldnt take any at this time. If they are drinking a lot of water when getting that close to derby, they are either full of feed they are trying to digest, or they have a fever.

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    Senior Member gaff's Avatar
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    Re: 12 hours before fight day

    Quote Originally Posted by springwater View Post
    I always gave their last feeding around 18 hours before derby start. I would allow them a chance to get a drink at this time although most wont take any water or if they do its just a quick dip. Then about 6 hours before derby start I would give them another chance to drink although they shouldnt take any at this time. If they are drinking a lot of water when getting that close to derby, they are either full of feed they are trying to digest, or they have a fever.
    You're lucky mobster, spring water told it right. I see not many replies to this one. Many consider their pointing method a secret. I do the same 18hours out a teaspoon of corn chops, let him drink. Most won't like spring water said, and the ones that do won't show well. If it's hot you can offer water one time in-between if not I just drop them.
    I use a three day point some may do it different.

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    Member jawsreyna's Avatar
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    Re: 12 hours before fight day

    When was legal I gave mine a super pack from randell burky for one week before and they light up like fire I don't know what it is about that stuff but I had a rooster that was always scard now he's man eater lol what do yall thank

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    Senior Member victor's Avatar
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    Re: 12 hours before fight day

    All i can say is that what applies here in the U.S doesnt neccesarily apply in the p.i.

    Best,
    Victor

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    Re: 12 hours before fight day

    Quote Originally Posted by victor View Post
    All i can say is.............

    Best,
    Victor
    Come on Victor stop teasing us LOL. Please elaborate a little for us. Why is it different in the Philippines compared to the U.S.?

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    Senior Member victor's Avatar
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    Re: 12 hours before fight day

    Upgrade,
    Due to the climate birds here collapse easier when you squeeze them.
    Well my last feed used to be the afternoon before the fight. Now i feed in the AM fight day. The amount depends on your schedule. Id estimate it and feed each bird differently. My last water though would be 12noon the day before fight day. I just feed accordingly what my birds need.
    You gotto time your birds to be empty about 2-3 hour window. They go over faster here in
    the p.i.
    And you just cant squeeze them to dry here. They wont have any beans at all. Lol. Anyhow this is just my experience feeding and pointing my birds, my brother, my dads and friends birds. I usually fight 4 times in a weeks time from sept-december. So i learned frm screwing them up so much over the years. Lol.
    The best experience is learnng from when you screw it up. Hehehe.

    Hope this helps abit. Im impressed with an american Grady Malone here in the p.i. Hes feeding for mtj brothers and he gets them cutting real good most of the time.

    Best,
    Victor

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    Member Mang Jack's Avatar
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    Re: 12 hours before fight day

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mobster View Post
    No water and no food for your birds 12 hours before the fight?
    According to Doc Ted "A cock digests his normal feed in 6 to 8 hours and fully absorb the nutrients in another 4 to 6 hours". I am quite sure that your cock is perfectly on point on the 11th hour, max and after that, dehydration starts. Therefore, on the 12th hour he might be out of point already.

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    Re: 12 hours before fight day

    Quote Originally Posted by victor View Post
    Upgrade,
    Now i feed in the AM fight day.
    Best,
    Victor
    Victor, If you feed the morning of fight day, what time does the derby start? At what time would you feed if the derby was going to start at 9:00am? (Or how many hours before the first fight to you feed your roosters?)

    Thanks for your input,
    upgrade
    Last edited by upgrade; December 21st, 2011 at 03:20 AM.

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    Senior Member jay daguio's Avatar
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    Re: 12 hours before fight day

    I think at all pretty much depends on the type of climate u have in ur area, if not much humidity then i would think that u would need to give your fowl a couple dips of water evry now n then jus to keep him hydrated n keep his moister level rite!! and if u live in an area were humidity levels is up then u dont really need to give too much water bcuz the humidity should be enough to keep them holding in alot of moister!! but honestly i would rather have my roosters i little more on the wet side rather than being too dry!! roosters that are too dry will cut short!!

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    Senior Member gaff's Avatar
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    Re: 12 hours before fight day

    Quote Originally Posted by jay daguio View Post
    I think at all pretty much depends on the type of climate u have in ur area, if not much humidity then i would think that u would need to give your fowl a couple dips of water evry now n then jus to keep him hydrated n keep his moister level rite!! and if u live in an area were humidity levels is up then u dont really need to give too much water bcuz the humidity should be enough to keep them holding in alot of moister!! but honestly i would rather have my roosters i little more on the wet side rather than being too dry!! roosters that are too dry will cut short!!
    How many hours out your last feed, and how much. I think if you offer him a drink 12 hours out and he doesn't drink then he doesn't need water. But every bird is different. Not to say one way is right and another wrong. Many ways to skin a cat right?

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    Senior Member springwater's Avatar
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    Re: 12 hours before fight day

    Victor, quick question because I am definitely willing to learn what will work best over there. Do you find it better to feed like that with all the fowl or just certain breeds. I know over here even, those Lanier Rhs fought better with a little feed in them like what your talking about but some other breeds would do better when empty and stags always seemed to need less time to pass feed do to their higher metabolism. I would give my stags a little morning peck but usually not much. Lets say your first scheduled fight should be around 5 p.m. when would you prefer to give last feeding compared to when your first scheduled fight would be around 1 p.m. Also in that last feeding, would you just give a few grains or would you give the full feeding. Soft feed or dry hard grains? It makes a difference to the time it takes to pass.

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    Senior Member jay daguio's Avatar
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    Re: 12 hours before fight day

    Quote Originally Posted by gaff View Post
    How many hours out your last feed, and how much. I think if you offer him a drink 12 hours out and he doesn't drink then he doesn't need water. But every bird is different. Not to say one way is right and another wrong. Many ways to skin a cat right?
    I usually feed about 18 hours before showing but i also give them a few pecks of feed in the morning jus to keep a little something in them to keep the gizzards working then while holding them on point i usually give them a peck of banana or egg whites if its a nice dry day but if a little rainy then I use dry cracked corn or pellets jus to help them from not over obsorbing too much moister n i do this every hour on the hour!! it all jus pretty much depends on wat kind of feeding u use if dry feeding then it will take a little more time to pass then a wet feeding will!! u can usually tell wen a rooster is to wet or to dry by wathing their droppings!!

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    Senior Member gaff's Avatar
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    Re: 12 hours before fight day

    Quote Originally Posted by jay daguio View Post
    I usually feed about 18 hours before showing but i also give them a few pecks of feed in the morning jus to keep a little something in them to keep the gizzards working then while holding them on point i usually give them a peck of banana or egg whites if its a nice dry day but if a little rainy then I use dry cracked corn or pellets jus to help them from not over obsorbing too much moister n i do this every hour on the hour!! it all jus pretty much depends on wat kind of feeding u use if dry feeding then it will take a little more time to pass then a wet feeding will!! u can usually tell wen a rooster is to wet or to dry by wathing their droppings!!
    I guess different methods for different situations. My last feed a teaspoon of corn 18 hours out. No feed till show time. If he hasn't shown by 22 hours and he's empty then two peck of boiled brown rice and barley every two hours. That's how I was taught. I guess we all got our ways. Back in the day before Internet I'm sure it could take ten years to learn what you can learn now In a half hour! I will say it's hard to get them razor sharp, they aren't always right. Yfis.

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    Senior Member victor's Avatar
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    Re: 12 hours before fight day

    Quote Originally Posted by upgrade View Post
    Victor, If you feed the morning of fight day, what time does the derby start? At what time would you feed if the derby was going to start at 9:00am? (Or how many hours before the first fight to you feed your roosters?)

    Thanks for your input,
    upgrade
    Hi,
    Fights in the p.i start about 12noon at the earliest. My am feed is always 7am.

    Jay,
    Ask ryan how i do in stags and cocks. I feed different cocks. But not much.
    Jay, this is only what i learned and this is not the know how end all point. Hehehe. I just think i have a huge advantage because i fight and point more than anyone in the p.i. Due to the amount of fights i go through. We went 59w-17l during the stag wars and i had my best birds lost due to a flash flood.
    Ok to answer your question jay, you do know that all my birds carry a certain amount of the roundhead blood. Whether its kelso-rh, hatch-rh. Im in auto pilot mode with them. The only
    Thing also i do different is that i got cowan blood and those i be careful and watch them more than others. I do same with the cowans but i give them extra when they start acting nervous. You can tell because when you drop them they will move more and get restless.... They also will not rest well in the coups.
    And when i point my dads birds i squeeze them so much more. He has old harold brown blood. Greys and hatch greys. And when you dont squeeze them dry and empty they move slow, and just wont get sharp at all. I mean they are walking targets. Lol but when i squeeze them they get alert and have that hatred come out. They cut so much better. But not empty they are bumb cocks. I swear. When they are on i havent seen cocks hit as hard as these hatch greys.
    Thry are not my type of birds but when senor old man puts up a show of these. They usually win the derby. With the others who points them p.i style they get o score. Lol.

    So its different with different breeds.

    I feed am 7am. Considering the dropping are small and everything ok. If i fight 5pm, i feed them 5-10grams. Depends on his body. If hes full got alot of body give them 5g.
    1pm fight i might feed them 3 grams. I weigh everything i feed them the last days.
    I feed 1 part egg white, part pellet, part crackcorn. I adjust the amount of each depending on the droppings and the feel. If there wet then i omit the egg white. If there dry maybe no pellets, etc, etc. i soaked the crackcorn for 2 hrs. then airdry it. Then dry it again with a cloth.
    Hehehe. I give them a liquid thingy to regulate moisture and give them energy. but that i got to pm you cuz its a secret.lol.

    Most of the time when i dont do too good its when there wet. And they are letty. I hate it when i know earlier they are and i open the trick bag and still i just didnt have enough time. Ah! Kills me! Especially cockpits that dont have proper facility.

    Victor
    Last edited by victor; December 21st, 2011 at 07:10 AM.

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    Member zvinzonz's Avatar
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    Re: 12 hours before fight day

    this is a great thread... very informative and useful

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    Member Hawaiian Breed's Avatar
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    Re: 12 hours before fight day

    Victor this sounds like the way my uncle does it. He is constantly watching the rooster and weighing him. Depending on his weight is the amount of food and water intake.

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    Senior Member bigggamefarm's Avatar
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    Re: 12 hours before fight day

    I like my roosters empty and i give them something so they dont get dehydrated

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    Senior Member moseley's Avatar
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    Re: 12 hours before fight day

    alot of people think when their fowl are walking the wire and moving a bunch their fowl are ready to show, but he is a few hours from being on. when they are on their prop toe will be a 1/4 inch off ground, they will be 'stretch' out and they will be totally still.

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    Senior Member victor's Avatar
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    Re: 12 hours before fight day

    [QUOTE=moseley;3945429]alot of people think when their fowl are walking the wire and moving a bunch their fowl are ready to show, but he is a few hours from being on. when they are on their prop toe will be a 1/4 inch off ground, they will be 'stretch' out and they will be totally

    Good post moseley! I feel exactly the same.

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    Re: 12 hours before fight day

    May i just respectfully ask, if you give your last feed 12 hours before fight, how much weight loss (the range) could be expected from your battle warriors?

    Also, 10 g feed 10-12 hours before fight is so little. It would be misleading the handlers if simply state it this way. I suspect there is more than this (like giving them your "magic pill").

    During the process of selection, I just observed that in farms when we spar our roosters (not conditioned), they fight impressively well, focused and strong. These roosters when sparred usually are full and wet. they were not trained and were not given enough rest. I just don't seem to understand the logic in emptying or squeezing the little warriors during fight time. I understand that this is coming from the advice of experienced handlers that "an empty rooster cuts best". Or maybe "squeeze them out" only for the purpose of creating an advantage of bigger size compared to the opponent... this is more logical.

    American cockers advise us to draw out moisture from the feathered warriors. But Filipino handlers are doing otherwise. In fact, I watched idol winningest Filipino cocker Patrick Antonio gave his tip to the handlers to maintain clean water all the time one day before fight day "pero wag lang lalaruin" (just don't let the roosters "play" with the water). I know that the Philippines is a tropical country not like the America. But i can't see the logic. What is it with a tropical weather that we should fight wet roosters?

    Handling roosters in the Philippines is a totally different exercise compared with that in America. Otherwise, we should have american handlers dominate the cockpits in the Philippines. I heard one American comment: "My God, these people (referring to the Filipino cockers) fight a bunch of wet roosters".

    I want to ask the equally experienced handlers, What should we not follow from the americans and what experience worked best for the Filipinos which is contrary to the american teachings (in handling)?

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    Re: 12 hours before fight day

    by the way, this is just my second post. but i am not a newbie in this field.

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    Senior Member victor's Avatar
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    Re: 12 hours before fight day

    Dodong,
    Just my 2 cents. 10 grams 10 hours before the fight is not at all to little.
    You mess up more birds feeding them too much and that water thingy.
    Sparring rooster as you say when selecting full of feed and wet might sound strong. But it will be slow motion vs. a well pointed out rooster thats empty. Before that power cock reacts there will be 10 knife stabs. Lol.
    I win so much fights in the p.i because i meet Against wet chickens that feed full feed with water inthe am. As soon as i hit him, blood sprays like a fire hydrant.
    And they are slow motion and dont cut good.
    Wet birds are slugish and have there feet down because they feel heavy.
    I think the u.s way is the best way as long you learn what not to do and be open minded.

    I hope this helps alot or it makes sense. Just trying to share my experience.
    Im gonna shut my mouth from now on cuz the birds i meet might cut the feed and they will find out the difference. Lol.

    My last tip is dont be afraid to try. It might be alien at first butmuou would never knowmuntil you tried.

    Short story.... SS bros entry (may sevilleno) is one of the best in my area. And we argue about point. He usually points giving little feed every 2hrs. But i told i him he was fighting wet and full. Actually in p.i standards hes more on the empty side compared the ones ive seen in davao. But still too wet for me.
    Anyhow, we ended the arguement by picking up birds from the tie cord and he asked me to point for a derby next week. These were birds he bred. Some had my kelso blood in them.
    Anyhow, to make the long story short we won the derby 4 stag. I fed them hardly and dried them out. Lost about 30-40 grams from actuall weight when fought. We won with knife legs out.

    Again, i can damn screw themup with the best of them. Lol. But the past years have been very consistent cuz i know what to look for.
    When i screw them up also... Damn i call the whole world just to get other peoples opinion on there take on ehat happened. Last time i screwed them up we went 5w-3l in bakbakan. But they won just in sheer will and brood pens plus luck. see, i asked advice from fourwinds, hitmonkey... Called up mike lanier, and Dean Johnson. Hahaha. It was a wierd day that got me baffled. So i still ask from people i respectin this hobby.
    Best,
    Victor

    Victor

    QUOT
    Handling roosters in the Philippines is a totally different exercise compared with that in America. Otherwise, we should have american handlers dominate the cockpits in the Philippines. I heard one American comment: "My God, these people (referring tthe Filipino cockers) fight a bunch of wet roosters".

    I want to ask the equally experienced handlers, What should we not follow from the americans and what experience worked best for the Filipinos which is contrary to the american teachings (in handling)?[/QUOTE]
    Last edited by victor; December 21st, 2011 at 10:17 AM.

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    Senior Member jay daguio's Avatar
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    Re: 12 hours before fight day

    Quote Originally Posted by victor View Post
    Hi,

    So its different with different breeds.

    I feed am 7am. Considering the dropping are small and everything ok. If i fight 5pm, i feed them 5-10grams. Depends on his body. If hes full got alot of body give them 5g.
    1pm fight i might feed them 3 grams. I weigh everything i feed them the last days.
    I feed 1 part egg white, part pellet, part crackcorn. I adjust the amount of each depending on the droppings and the feel. If there wet then i omit the egg white. If there dry maybe no pellets, etc, etc. i soaked the crackcorn for 2 hrs. then airdry it. Then dry it again with a cloth.
    Hehehe. I give them a liquid thingy to regulate moisture and give them energy. but that i got to pm you cuz its a secret.lol.

    Most of the time when i dont do too good its when there wet. And they are letty. I hate it when i know earlier they are and i open the trick bag and still i just didnt have enough time. Ah! Kills me! Especially cockpits that dont have proper facility.

    Victor
    U surely are rite about differnt breeds reacting different to differnt methods of feeding!! i guess it all comes down to knowing ur fowl and wat they can and cant do!! my fowl i really dont like them to be too empty because they tend to get a little too rough and loose all thinking abilities so i like them to have a little feed in them!! i do believe in constantly checking the droppings and making adjustiments as we go thru the day!! for me i think there is a very fine line of being on point and going over!! i personally dont like wen my birds are pacing back n forth in the drop pens!! i prefer to have them calm and observant while in the drop pens and the puplis of their eyes shud be constantly moving it shows that they are on!! and sir please do pm me for that little secret!! allways willing to learn more and will never stop learning wen it comes to this great sport!! and very good posts guys!!

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    Re: 12 hours before fight day

    thank you for the well meaning words. but based on my experience, dry does not work. they easily get tired. they don't bleed hard, they cut good but they are just not performing at their best.

    Quote Originally Posted by victor View Post
    Dodong,
    Just my 2 cents. 10 grams 10 hours before the fight is not at all to little.
    You mess up more birds feeding them too much and that water thingy.
    Sparring rooster as you say when selecting full of feed and wet might sound strong. But it will be slow motion vs. a well pointed out rooster thats empty. Before that power cock reacts there will be 10 knife stabs. Lol.
    I win so much fights in the p.i because i meet Against wet chickens that feed full feed with water inthe am. As soon as i hit him, blood sprays like a fire hydrant.
    And they are slow motion and dont cut good.
    Wet birds are slugish and have there feet down because they feel heavy.
    I think the u.s way is the best way as long you learn what not to do and be open minded.

    I hope this helps alot or it makes sense. Just trying to share my experience.
    Im gonna shut my mouth from now on cuz the birds i meet might cut the feed and they will find out the difference. Lol.

    My last tip is dont be afraid to try. It might be alien at first butmuou would never knowmuntil you tried.

    Short story.... SS bros entry (may sevilleno) is one of the best in my area. And we argue about point. He usually points giving little feed every 2hrs. But i told i him he was fighting wet and full. Actually in p.i standards hes more on the empty side compared the ones ive seen in davao. But still too wet for me.
    Anyhow, we ended the arguement by picking up birds from the tie cord and he asked me to point for a derby next week. These were birds he bred. Some had my kelso blood in them.
    Anyhow, to make the long story short we won the derby 4 stag. I fed them hardly and dried them out. Lost about 30-40 grams from actuall weight when fought. We won with knife legs out.

    Best,
    Victor

    Victor

    QUOTE=dodong del cruz;3945526]May i just respectfully ask, if you give your last feed 12 hours before fight, how much weight loss (the range) could be expected from your battle warriors?

    Also, 10 g
    Handling roosters in the Philippines is a totally different exercise compared with that in America. Otherwise, we should have american handlers dominate the cockpits in the Philippines. I heard one American comment: "My God, these people (referring to the Filipino cockers) fight a bunch of wet roosters".

    I want to ask the equally experienced handlers, What should we not follow from the americans and what experience worked best for the Filipinos which is contrary to the american teachings (in handling)?
    [/QUOTE]

  26. #26
    Senior Member victor's Avatar
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    Re: 12 hours before fight day

    Quote Originally Posted by dodong del cruz View Post
    thank you for the well meaning words. but based on my experience, dry does not work. they easily get tired. they don't bleed hard, they cut good but they are just not performing at their best.
    [/QUOTE]

    I respect your opinion. I dont like too dry also. Drying them out is not the same as a dry rooster ****ting marbles. Lol. Hhehehe. Im just trying to help out. Btw, our idol patrick antonio. His main handler/trainer came from me. His name is Junarie brother of the famous bulljack which also came from our group in cebu many years ago.

    Goodluck my friend!

    Best,
    Victor

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    Re: 12 hours before fight day

    I respect your opinion. I dont like too dry also. Drying them out is not the same as a dry rooster ****ting marbles. Lol. Hhehehe. Im just trying to help out. Btw, our idol patrick antonio. His main handler/trainer came from me. His name is Junarie brother of the famous bulljack which also came from our group in cebu many years ago.

    Goodluck my friend!

    Best,
    Victor[/QUOTE]


    thank you Mr. Victor. "Drying them out is not the same as dry rooster". I will keep that in mind. But 'hope you could expound. What i get from it is that ...no water on the day of fight, will not make a rooster dry. But do you spray water on the feathers?

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    Senior Member lanipao's Avatar
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    Re: 12 hours before fight day

    [QUOTE=dodong del cruz;3945526]May i just respectfully ask, if you give your last feed 12 hours before fight, how much weight loss (the range) could be expected from your battle warriors?

    Also, 10 g feed 10-12 hours before fight is so little. It would be misleading the handlers if simply state it this way. I suspect there is more than this (like giving them your "magic pill").

    During the process of selection, I just observed that in farms when we spar our roosters (not conditioned), they fight impressively well, focused and strong. These roosters when sparred usually are full and wet. they were not trained and were not given enough rest. I just don't seem to understand the logic in emptying or squeezing the little warriors during fight time. I understand that this is coming from the advice of experienced handlers that "an empty rooster cuts best". Or maybe "squeeze them out" only for the purpose of creating an advantage of bigger size compared to the opponent... this is more logical.


    In our experience for the last 9 years since we started fighting empty birds(when i'm in P.I. only),giving 10 grams of dry grains(corn) at 7am is just enough and they should be empty by 4-5pm where most P.I. local derbies usually start.But when we give grains soaked overnight,they double their size and 20 grams at 7am on fight day should be enough until 4-5pm.From there pitik pitik na lang depending on the fight schedule.A well pointed bird is calm during limbering but makes a fighting stance when he sees a teaser cock ten feet away.Follows the direction of the teaser cock as you go around the limber.

  29. #29
    Senior Member springwater's Avatar
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    Re: 12 hours before fight day

    Victor, it sounds like we dont do things that much differently after all. I think one thing you said is very important. Some roosters cant stand any amount of squeezing or they will go nervous and crazy on you. Ive fed roosters for people before that would look great until they got empty then they would turn mean, wild, and some even hack up. Ive also fed some that the emptier they got the calmer and better they were. Ive fed some that if you dried them any they wouldnt cut as well and some that could be dried out quite a bit and still cut even better. It really helps when you have a breed for a long period of time and get to know what works best for them.

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    Re: 12 hours before fight day

    Victor how would you feed them if the derby was going to start at 9am? would you wake up at 4am and feed them 3 grams?

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