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Thread: Good Keeps

  
  1. #31
    Member Los Ivanes's Avatar
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    Re: Good Keeps

    Vetinova has a variety of good products

  2. #32
    Senior Member southernX's Avatar
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    Re: Good Keeps

    If you don't know the basics about poultry, or your fowl. Stay away from any hand working keep. So many folks think or say oh mike worked the heck out of a rooster. Well if you only saw the video then you might think that. He would only give a rooster what he could take. You have to be able to read your rooster. You need to be able to talk there language so you can understand what hes telling you. You have to flirt and run them the correct way. Its more then putting them on a bench and pushing them from one end to the other. LOL. If you just go by the video your going to have to do a lot of reading in between the lines on that one. LOL

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  4. #33
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    Re: Good Keeps

    Heres are a few opinions on keeps. There are more. Just have to look um up.

  5. #34
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    Re: Good Keeps

    It doesn't matter how many keeps you read, you need to find someone to show you how to run and fly your birds. This is a hands on partnership between you and your bird. You have to be smooth and fluid in your motion. I don't believe there is a substitute for someone watching and correcting you. It doesn't take long to learn but by yourself you can't tell if you're getting the proper work and balance from the effort. Keeping the bird working and happy at the same time without a mentor to guide you can lead to much frustration. If the work is done right the birds will seem to beg for more after the first few days. Work done wrong with sweaty hands pulling and twisting feathers will cause the birds to resist the work. Even to the point of man fighters. A video or book can't watch you and give advice. I tried it that way. It was a long hard road with many disappointments. I was blessed to have the opportunity to attend Mikes school. Would have saved a lot of birds time and money if I had done it a decade sooner.
    Last edited by hoghunterdave; May 11th, 2017 at 05:01 AM.

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  7. #35
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    Re: Good Keeps

    Two that I put together to make the one I follow. Chris Martins Short No More and the Tarheels KISS keep.

  8. #36
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    Re: Good Keeps

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. tj View Post
    The fly pen keep works well for me but I use steroid pills for roosters made by Vetinova it seems to keep them happy and working all the time plus any extra fat they have on their body they burn off on their own when I used to fly my cock to the table I would notice that their legs would get hard I never really understood why since your actually working the wings but they would lose cut while gaining a lot of power resistance but since in the Knife competition 75% of the time the cock that cuts first win the I tend to try to get my cocks loose so that they cut faster
    My work table was about a foot above my waist . I put down a medium hard foam pad and covered it with outdoor carpet. On the front edge of the table where the cocks land ,I made that area 3x as thick with foam before I covered it with carpet. This kept the shock off the cock's legs when they landed. Cocks landing on a hard surface will take the cut away from them. The steroids could also contribute to the hard legs.
    Last edited by RHman1026; May 12th, 2017 at 07:54 PM.

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  10. #37
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    Re: Good Keeps

    There are a million ways to put a rooster through a keep. You are basically getting them from point a to b, everyone has their own method. Back in the day I read a lot on the pointing process, point feeds, when to start blacking out, how much to feed etc. I thought I was pointing and I thought my birds were on point. I did ok so I thought everything was good. No one ever really showed me how to point.

    Then one day, years back, I decided to finance a big timers entry. ( I got brood fowl from him a few years earlier and I had been doing well with his fowl.) I got to his place a few days early and he showed me his keep and pointing process. Everything was so basic I diddnt believe it. And the amount of feed he was giving during the point was very minimal compared to what I had been doing. It was a big show, almost 100 participants, the birds had monster earth shaking power and we won.

    Sorry for for the long story. But, ever since I learned how to properly point and saw Properly pointed birds perform in person I have been doing a million times better. You can have the best keep but if you can't point you might as well grab them straight off the tie cord and hope for the best. I also believe you can't completely learn by reading. You have to have some one willing to show you the right way.

  11. #38
    Senior Member Quapaw Kid's Avatar
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    Re: Good Keeps

    Quote Originally Posted by pacop View Post
    There are a million ways to put a rooster through a keep. You are basically getting them from point a to b, everyone has their own method. Back in the day I read a lot on the pointing process, point feeds, when to start blacking out, how much to feed etc. I thought I was pointing and I thought my birds were on point. I did ok so I thought everything was good. No one ever really showed me how to point.

    Then one day, years back, I decided to finance a big timers entry. ( I got brood fowl from him a few years earlier and I had been doing well with his fowl.) I got to his place a few days early and he showed me his keep and pointing process. Everything was so basic I diddnt believe it. And the amount of feed he was giving during the point was very minimal compared to what I had been doing. It was a big show, almost 100 participants, the birds had monster earth shaking power and we won.

    Sorry for for the long story. But, ever since I learned how to properly point and saw Properly pointed birds perform in person I have been doing a million times better. You can have the best keep but if you can't point you might as well grab them straight off the tie cord and hope for the best. I also believe you can't completely learn by reading. You have to have some one willing to show you the right way.
    So , what's your take on pointing ? What signs do you look for when dropping out a properly pointed bird just before show time ?

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  13. #39
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    Re: Good Keeps

    I believe controlling humidity and temperature is #1 during pointing. When dropping them out just before show time, if they dump anything I only wanna see small white foamy bubbles, about what would fit on your pinky finger nail or less. If they have anything else they are not empty yet. Once they get close to that point or right at it it's like a switch goes off. And if you do it right they stay there for about 6-8 hours with out giving them a single thing. It's hard to explain but they just get a really intense alertness to them when you take them out of their box and when in the drop pen they will look super alert yet also just look like they are in the zone. They won't necessarily have to have a crazy head knock or be moving all over the place, it's more like There's a sharpness to them.

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  15. #40
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    Re: Good Keeps

    When I first started out. I bought the Coaches Keep. Do I follow it by code today? No. I have what works for myself now but as a rookie it surely helped

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  17. #41
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    Re: Good Keeps

    I always wondered about the Harry Charles no work keep, has anyone ever used it?

  18. #42
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    Re: Good Keeps

    Ok so its been a while since my last post so heres an update. I started resting my fowl in their fly pen the last 3 days and during the whole keep but the last three days in the morning i put them in a small pen inside their fly pen and at evening let them out so they fly up to sleep. Cocks are much sharper and stress free fight day plus they are cutting loke crazy. I only do rotation during keep.

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  20. #43
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    Re: Good Keeps

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. tj View Post
    Ok so its been a while since my last post so heres an update. I started resting my fowl in their fly pen the last 3 days and during the whole keep but the last three days in the morning i put them in a small pen inside their fly pen and at evening let them out so they fly up to sleep. Cocks are much sharper and stress free fight day plus they are cutting loke crazy. I only do rotation during keep.
    how were u doing it before u tried it the way u doing now ?

  21. #44
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    Re: Good Keeps

    I was resting them in boxes. But some would stress and not empty others woulg get really agressive or feel a little on the dry side. I can sen videos of the last fights to watsapp if youd like to see how their cutting

  22. #45
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    Re: Good Keeps

    I had a bad experience with Ted Griskell shortly after he moved to OK. We traded pairs of broodfowl in one of my crazy moments. He said he had no RHs and would like some good ones so I sent him as good as I had at the time. He sent me dunghills. The crosses were dunghill too. I chopped all their heads off and sent the leg and wing bands back with an uncomplimentary letter. His wife replied he had died of a heart attack shortly before my letter arrived.
    Is anyone acquainted with Dixie Club entry of the past? This was Eugene "Shorty" Smith. He fought a lot in L/K. I have his keep, never used it, but there is good info. in it. Too long to post all as one time but will try to post some along if any one is interested.

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  24. #46
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    Re: Good Keeps

    That would be great @rhman1026 would appreciate it. I always like seeing different methods of conditioning and pointing

  25. #47
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    Re: Good Keeps

    Bump.........................................

  26. #48
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    Re: Good Keeps

    Bump..........................................

  27. #49
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    Re: Good Keeps

    I love hearing all the hocus pocus about keeps. Blows my mind, though I will say that I have seen somewhat UNIQUE care of fowl different from my own method that worked very well for THEM.
    What's rediculous to me is SOME peoples arrogance & INSISTENCE that they know what's best for EVERYONES chickens and that if you don't know what they know your an idiot.

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  29. #50
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    Re: Good Keeps

    Get good chickens that can fight and cut good. Then keep them healthy and wormed year around. Keep in fly pens and 4-6" of straw and feed them 1/3 re-cleaned barley- 1/3 20% pellets - 1/3 whole corn.. In three weeks he will weigh the same as before, but will feel 8 oz. lighter.
    You can use a vitamin supplement. Black Vitamins, Wood enterprises vitamins. If you want. I use B-12 injections also.
    Point on soaked cracked corn with boiled egg white. You can only point from your last feed. 16 hours is a good amount of time to get them empty.
    My answer always to the question,(How do you get your chickens so sharp?) I tell them I do not screw them up.

  30. #51
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    Re: Good Keeps

    Just watched Mikes video, glad I went to the school. Two weeks with all the students asking questions just blows away anything a video can accomplish. Seemingly little things, like why in the video was he starring above the bird at a point on the wall. He explained that in the school like this. Remember when you were a kid and would hold up your index fingers pointed towards each other and look past them, the optical allusion you would see. Well it helps him to see the flexibility in the rooster. Just one of many questions he answered for us.

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  32. #52
    Senior Member lawgreyman14's Avatar
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    Re: Good Keeps

    When he was starring above the bird was he working the bird or was the bird standing still?

  33. #53
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    Re: Good Keeps

    Law grey
    He was working the bird. By not focusing directly on the bird you alow your perefrerial vision to see if the wings are fully extending, while the legs stay in time and balance. If you try to look directly at the bird you only see part of the picture. The idea is to get a rythm and balance. Mike was all about timing and balance. When you get a good rhythm going the bird will stay in balance. When this happens both you and your bird will relax he will get more from the work and it will be more enjoyable for you. The wings should fully extended on the first flap and have a control pop to land in balance ready for the next fly.

  34. #54
    Senior Member lawgreyman14's Avatar
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    Re: Good Keeps

    Quote Originally Posted by hoghunterdave View Post
    Law grey
    He was working the bird. By not focusing directly on the bird you alow your perefrerial vision to see if the wings are fully extending, while the legs stay in time and balance. If you try to look directly at the bird you only see part of the picture. The idea is to get a rythm and balance. Mike was all about timing and balance. When you get a good rhythm going the bird will stay in balance. When this happens both you and your bird will relax he will get more from the work and it will be more enjoyable for you. The wings should fully extended on the first flap and have a control pop to land in balance ready for the next fly.
    Yes sir thats how i watch mine while im working them. I fly mine different tham Mr Ratliff. I fly mine with the rooster facing forward away from me and with a hand on each side under his wings and my thumbs on his lower back about an inch or so from the base of his tail and when i fly him i flip him back amd push in with my thumbs a little bit. Starting of a little slow amd speed up the more i fly them, as soon as their feet land eaxh fly i fly them again so barely letting them land. I make it a point to watch this spot i have on the wall, i can see if theyre extending their wings all the way out and if they are bringing their legs up enough throught the work, and i fly them all about the same height just enough to pop their wings. But at the same time watching that spot Then i rub them down good.
    Last edited by lawgreyman14; August 9th, 2017 at 03:34 AM.

  35. #55
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    Re: Good Keeps

    Don't forget the time issue, 20 second rub to mimic 20 second break. Five back, five breast, five each leg.

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