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Thread: Claymore Tournament Rules

  
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    Claymore Tournament Rules

    Any of you fellas know what the rules were when there was a 2-4 way tie at the end of the Great Claymore Tournament? I know the contestants would have to have two cocks each at a certain weight but it is not clear to me what was done say if there was a 3 way tie?? Hoping some of you NE boys know about this.

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    Senior Member Mike Everett's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore Tournament Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by chickengeorge View Post
    Any of you fellas know what the rules were when there was a 2-4 way tie at the end of the Great Claymore Tournament? I know the contestants would have to have two cocks each at a certain weight but it is not clear to me what was done say if there was a 3 way tie?? Hoping some of you NE boys know about this.
    I think they had to have two cocks like you said, and I believe if it was 3-way one got a bye. I think by lot.....

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    Re: Claymore Tournament Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by mike everett View Post
    i think they had to have two cocks like you said, and i believe if it was 3-way one got a bye. I think by lot.....
    mike , you are right .
    Original rules ( 1940 )
    each contestant or member ( 8 members ) shall show 9 stags .
    Seven of these shall be used by a member against each other member and which shall be :
    4:08 - 4:10 - 4:12 - 4:14 - 5:00 - 5:02 - 5:04
    in addition each contestant shall provide himself with two extra five pound stags which shall be used to dissolve or break any existing ties .

    With this you can break a two , three or four way tie .
    Three way tie , draw for a bye for one contestant .
    1968 there was a 5 way tie and it stood as a five way tie .

    In 1968 was the assitant ref to mr. Foxie hewitt .

    Tommy greene

    tommy

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    Re: Claymore Tournament Rules

    The Claymore was a great event to attend. No rowdies there, no entries wearing college football t-shirts, no butts hanging out when someone bent over. It was a first class event. Hopefully it can be revived someday.

    Mark Marsh

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    Senior Member BamaOkie's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore Tournament Rules

    So 8 entry's all there ever were?

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    Re: Claymore Tournament Rules

    A friend of mine from the NE won this tournament and he is still breeding those old bloodlines he used in that tournament.

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    Re: Claymore Tournament Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaOkie View Post
    So 8 entry's all there ever were?
    I have a scorecard from the last one I attended and there were 11 entries.

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    Senior Member Mike Everett's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore Tournament Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by MarshButcher View Post
    I have a scorecard from the last one I attended and there were 11 entries.
    I thought in a tournment each entry had to met each of the other entries once, if it was a 7 stag...you could only meet 7 other entries. For a total of 7 fights, with two spare, you would have to have 9 stags. Did they change the # of stags? There would be 7x8=56 birds divided by 2= 28 fights.
    Last edited by Mike Everett; January 5th, 2012 at 12:59 PM.

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    Re: Claymore Tournament Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Everett View Post
    I thought in a tournment each entry had to met each of the other entries once, if it was a 7 stag...you could only meet 6 other entries. with two spare, you would have to have 9 stags. Did they change the # of stags?
    That is what I thought as well but I imagine that the legal pits back in the day could do it with more entries? Maybe they would have had to make it a 2-3 day meet. Mr. Marsh, I agree, it would be awesome if this ever came back! Oh, and it wouldn't be all bad if the guys wearing college shirts brought the cheerleaders to do the bending over for us.....for better scenery of course.
    Last edited by chickengeorge; January 5th, 2012 at 12:28 PM.

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    Senior Member gaff's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore Tournament Rules

    It's kind of like fighting a main against seven different entries. The best cocker is sure to come out on top. This would be a much safer way of showing in the current environment I would think. Less lose lips to sink ships and only parties with an interest attending.

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    Re: Claymore Tournament Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Everett View Post
    I thought in a tournment each entry had to met each of the other entries once, if it was a 7 stag...you could only meet 7 other entries. For a total of 7 fights, with two spare, you would have to have 9 stags. Did they change the # of stags? There would be 7x8=56 birds divided by 2= 28 fights.
    As far as i can remember tournaments always had an odd number of entries such as the Orlando tournament 17 entries showing 16 cocks each. You cannot meet yourself but must match the other 16 entries.

    Does anyone remember the last tournament fought before it became illegal ?
    Sorry if i got off subject.

    C G

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    Re: Claymore Tournament Rules

    Barnes tournament jan. 2008 .
    Won by roger smith of tenn.

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    Re: Claymore Tournament Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by T GREENE View Post
    Barnes tournament jan. 2008 .
    Won by roger smith of tenn.
    I was invited to be a spectator at this tournament and couldn't make due to a last min issue I had to deal with. I regret not going to this....

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    Re: Claymore Tournament Rules

    the claymore is still active and going strong: the rule is:BY INVITATION ONLY!

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    Re: Claymore Tournament Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by john barrocan View Post
    i was once told a story about the claymore tournament by a old friend,about a man name frank shy.a true claymore master went 14x whipped everybody all over atlantic north east mainly in delaware area,just dont hear stories like that now a days,thanks john barrocan.
    I was told by 2 cockers one of which was associated with the Claymore that Mr.Shy was banned from the Claymore when he was caught using "bishops"....cocks with their heels altered to resemble stags. Regardless My.Shy was a fine "chicken man." Perhaps Mr. Greene could shed some light on this.

    Mark

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    Re: Claymore Tournament Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by MarshButcher View Post
    I was told by 2 cockers one of which was associated with the Claymore that Mr.Shy was banned from the Claymore when he was caught using "bishops"....cocks with their heels altered to resemble stags. Regardless My.Shy was a fine "chicken man." Perhaps Mr. Greene could shed some light on this.

    Mark
    It is funny you mention that Mark. I woke up this morning wondering how someone could possibly win a tournament that many times with the level of competition there had to of been. When I think about the guys that I used to know down in Arizona when it was legal I could never imagine beating the top ten cockers 14 times. Pretty amazing feat especially in the modern era before it all fell apart on us. Did they show all 9 of these cocks the same day? If so, how long did that take? Did they match the board a day or two prior or was there a system for who met who at a certain weight?
    Matt

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    Re: Claymore Tournament Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by marshbutcher View Post
    i was told by 2 cockers one of which was associated with the claymore that mr.shy was banned from the claymore when he was caught using "bishops"....cocks with their heels altered to resemble stags. Regardless my.shy was a fine "chicken man." perhaps mr. Greene could shed some light on this.

    Mark
    i just looked at my records , my first year at claymore 1967 ( asst. Ref to mr. Foxie hewitt ) .
    Victor onet was president , in 1968 mr. Eric west became president and then edmund ross in 1971 .
    I was there 1967 thru 1973 . Mr. Onet , west and ross instructed mr. Hewitt to ask each entry owner
    1 - do these birds belong to you
    2 - are these birds stags
    if the answer was "yes " to both questions , then "band them" .
    Thats the way it was , a " gentlemans word " .
    After that the spurs could be sawed .
    Later eddie rogers took over from foxie and i don't know what went on after that.

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    Re: Claymore Tournament Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by marshbutcher View Post
    i was told by 2 cockers one of which was associated with the claymore that mr.shy was banned from the claymore when he was caught using "bishops"....cocks with their heels altered to resemble stags. Regardless my.shy was a fine "chicken man." perhaps mr. Greene could shed some light on this.

    Mark
    mr. Shys birds always had a lot of spur and feathers , but so did others . I never saw any spurs that appeared to be altered , but i did see some that were rather long .

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    Re: Claymore Tournament Rules

    Mr Shy was my friend's neighbor in the New England area and they told me that his birds were always tough as stags and this is why he won a lot of claymores. Moult them out and it is not the same.

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    Re: Claymore Tournament Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by T GREENE View Post
    mr. Shys birds always had a lot of spur and feathers , but so did others . I never saw any spurs that appeared to be altered , but i did see some that were rather long .

    Mr. Greene,

    When you were involved in this tournament how was the board matched? I know that every contestant had to face eachother once. Was it done in advance, by straws by weight class etc. Also, was it all done in one day? If so, how long did it take to complete? Was everybody required to fight all their birds or were some eliminated once there was not a chance to win?
    Matt

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    Re: Claymore Tournament Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by chickengeorge View Post
    mr. Greene,

    when you were involved in this tournament how was the board matched? I know that every contestant had to face eachother once. Was it done in advance, by straws by weight class etc. Also, was it all done in one day? If so, how long did it take to complete? Was everybody required to fight all their birds or were some eliminated once there was not a chance to win?
    Matt
    get out your 1961 revised edtion of modern tournament and derby rules by henry wortham . See page 19 .
    Each entry draws a number ( 1 thru 10 ) .
    Example , in a 10 stag tournament at the 4-8 weight 9 meets 5 , 4 meets 8 , 3 meets 10 , 2 meets 6 and 1 meets 7 . The scoreboard is already prepared and just add entry name by the correct number .
    An expeditor calls each fight , keeps official score and manages the gaffs ( club gaffs only ) . You can look at the score and see when your entry will be called .
    Round tw0 ( 4-10 weight ) 3-6 , 4-10 , 7-8 , 1-9 , 2-5 .
    All fights are completed .
    I hope that helps .

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    Re: Claymore Tournament Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by T GREENE View Post
    get out your 1961 revised edtion of modern tournament and derby rules by henry wortham . See page 19 .
    Each entry draws a number ( 1 thru 10 ) .
    Example , in a 10 stag tournament at the 4-8 weight 9 meets 5 , 4 meets 8 , 3 meets 10 , 2 meets 6 and 1 meets 7 . The scoreboard is already prepared and just add entry name by the correct number .
    An expeditor calls each fight , keeps official score and manages the gaffs ( club gaffs only ) . You can look at the score and see when your entry will be called .
    Round tw0 ( 4-10 weight ) 3-6 , 4-10 , 7-8 , 1-9 , 2-5 .
    All fights are completed .
    I hope that helps .
    Thanks Mr. Greene!...............................

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    Re: Claymore Tournament Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by salvaje View Post
    mr shy was my friend's neighbor in the new england area and they told me that his birds were always tough as stags and this is why he won a lot of claymores. Moult them out and it is not the same.
    i saw mr.shy 1967 thru 1975 .
    He was almost unbeatable , for example 1974 he was 7-0 , in 1975 he was 9-0 .
    1975 he resigned from the claymore . I remenber ( and saw ) the 1975 claymore , it was held at the franklin pit . His birds were awesome , as usually .
    1967 thru 1975 there were no hatch , murphy , o'connell , etc. In the claymore .
    His strongest competion came from parr , and ross .
    Shy joined the claymore in 1948 , he won in 1952 , 1953 , 1955 , 1959 , 1965 , 1967 , 1971 , 1972 , 1974 , and 1975 .
    He was well educated and wealthy , but trained and pitted his birds . He came to win , no party while he was there , except at winners banquet .
    As cocks his birds were second class . I saw him in delaware several times and he never was in the race .
    Other people know more or knew more than i , about mr. Shy .

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    Re: Claymore Tournament Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by T GREENE View Post
    i saw mr.shy 1967 thru 1975 .
    He was almost unbeatable , for example 1974 he was 7-0 , in 1975 he was 9-0 .
    1975 he resigned from the claymore . I remenber ( and saw ) the 1975 claymore , it was held at the franklin pit . His birds were awesome , as usually .
    1967 thru 1975 there were no hatch , murphy , o'connell , etc. In the claymore .
    His strongest competion came from parr , and ross .
    Shy joined the claymore in 1948 , he won in 1952 , 1953 , 1955 , 1959 , 1965 , 1967 , 1971 , 1972 , 1974 , and 1975 .
    He was well educated and wealthy , but trained and pitted his birds . He came to win , no party while he was there , except at winners banquet .
    As cocks his birds were second class . I saw him in delaware several times and he never was in the race .
    Other people know more or knew more than i , about mr. Shy .
    Mr. Greene, thanks again for this great information! I have tried to PM you but your mailbox is full. Regards.

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    Re: Claymore Tournament Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by T GREENE View Post
    i saw mr.shy 1967 thru 1975 .
    He was almost unbeatable , for example 1974 he was 7-0 , in 1975 he was 9-0 .
    1975 he resigned from the claymore . I remenber ( and saw ) the 1975 claymore , it was held at the franklin pit . His birds were awesome , as usually .
    1967 thru 1975 there were no hatch , murphy , o'connell , etc. In the claymore .
    His strongest competion came from parr , and ross .
    Shy joined the claymore in 1948 , he won in 1952 , 1953 , 1955 , 1959 , 1965 , 1967 , 1971 , 1972 , 1974 , and 1975 .
    He was well educated and wealthy , but trained and pitted his birds . He came to win , no party while he was there , except at winners banquet .
    As cocks his birds were second class . I saw him in delaware several times and he never was in the race .
    Other people know more or knew more than i , about mr. Shy .
    Hello Tommy, you in the Philippines yet. Will have an entry in Araneta this Tuesday. Mr. Balo will hae one in Candelaria. Good Luck to all of us.

    Jovi

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    Re: Claymore Tournament Rules

    Some score cards from the good old days.








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    Re: Claymore Tournament Rules

    Those make great reading! Any idea where that last scorecard was from?

    Mark

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    Re: Claymore Tournament Rules

    Mark,
    I do not know where the last scorecard was from, I obtained those scorecards along with a bunch of other documentation from a fellow named John Mahon.

    He was a very close friend of Frank Shy and obtained most of Shy's Narragansett fowl when he basically retired from raising gamefowl.

    Mahon maintained the Narragansett fowl for some time with coaching and mentoring from Shy until Shy's death.

    I obtained some Narragansetts from John in the mid eighties and he sent me a pile of paperwork including scorecards and breeding methods-tactics they were using.

    I know John became ill with cancer in the late eighties and I lost contact with him.

    My last old pure Narragansett hen died this past spring.

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    Re: Claymore Tournament Rules

    If I am not mistaken, Tom Schweign told me Jimmy Wright won the last Claymore that was held.....

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    Re: Claymore Tournament Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Airedale View Post
    Mark,
    I do not know where the last scorecard was from, I obtained those scorecards along with a bunch of other documentation from a fellow named John Mahon.

    He was a very close friend of Frank Shy and obtained most of Shy's Narragansett fowl when he basically retired from raising gamefowl.

    Mahon maintained the Narragansett fowl for some time with coaching and mentoring from Shy until Shy's death.

    I obtained some Narragansetts from John in the mid eighties and he sent me a pile of paperwork including scorecards and breeding methods-tactics they were using.

    I know John became ill with cancer in the late eighties and I lost contact with him.

    My last old pure Narragansett hen died this past spring.

    I have a bunch of old Feathered Warrior and Grit & Steel from those years and will try to find this tournament in there. Possibly a tournament on either Pittston or Scranton Pa, or the Chisholm tournament?

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