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Thread: understanding the vitamins we use in our fowl

  
  1. #1
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    understanding the vitamins we use in our fowl

    part 1
    this is something that may help a few understand the do's and dont's
    of the usage of vitamins in our fowl and how and when to use them the best way i can explain it.

    vitamins are divided into two groups : fat soluble and water soluble
    fat soluble vitamins [A,D,E,K]
    these vitamins are retained in the body fat and used as they are needed.

    water soluble vitamins [C and B COMPLEX]
    these vitamins are[NOT] stored in the body ,which only uses what it immediately needs and expels any excess in the droppings.
    that is the reason water soluble vitamins need to be replenished more often than fat soluble vitamins.

    of all the vitamins or nutrients chickens are more likely to be deficient in vitamins A,D,and B2 [riboflavin].

    a vitamin supplement will give your fowl a boost
    during times of stress
    such as when there bodies are battling a disease
    when the weather is unpleasant
    during travel to and from a derby
    before and after a derby
    and during breeding season

    chicks will get off to a good start you give them a vitamin supplement the first 3 weeks of there life.

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    Senior Member moseley's Avatar
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    Re: understanding the vitamins we use in our fowl

    good post scott. from the reading you could hurt your fowl if given to much fat souluble vitamins. is that correct?

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    Re: understanding the vitamins we use in our fowl

    part 2
    fat soluble vitamin info

    vitamin A
    vit A is needed or vision,growth and bone development.
    it is called the "anti-infection" vitamin because it helps maintain the immune system.
    it also aids in disease resistance by playing a role in maintaining the linings of the digestive system,reproductive ,and respiratory system.

    vitamin A deficiency is unlikely to result from improper diet,but may be caused by a health condition that interferes with nutrient absorption,such as coccidiosis or worm infestation.

    vitamin A deficiency can also cause nutritional roup which produces symptoms similar to those of infectious bronchitis or infectious coryza.

    it can also cause the upper digestive tract to develop blisters resembling those of fowl pox.

    the damage caused to the linings of the upper digestive and resiratory tracts can open the door to bacterial or viral invasion.

    deficiency increases the severity of respiratory infections bronchitis and chronic respiratory disease [CRD] and increases a chicken's susceptibility to parasites like COCCIDA.

    cod liver oil mixed into the feed at the rate of 2 percent is a good source of vit.A
    DON'T GO OVER BOARD - VIT. A CAN BE TOXIC IF TO MUCH IS GIVEN TO POULTRY.
    Last edited by scott; January 21st, 2012 at 01:00 AM.

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    Re: understanding the vitamins we use in our fowl

    Quote Originally Posted by moseley View Post
    good post scott. from the reading you could hurt your fowl if given to much fat souluble vitamins. is that correct?
    yes that is why i tell people becareful with the red cell and those kind of vitamins.

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    Re: understanding the vitamins we use in our fowl

    thanks for sharing this post scott

    Quote Originally Posted by scott View Post
    part 1
    this is something that may help a few understand the do's and dont's
    of the usage of vitamins in our fowl and how and when to use them the best way i can explain it.

    vitamins are divided into two groups : fat soluble and water soluble
    fat soluble vitamins [A,D,E,K]
    these vitamins are retained in the body fat and used as they are needed.

    water soluble vitamins [C and B COMPLEX]
    these vitamins are[NOT] stored in the body ,which only uses what it immediately needs and expels any excess in the droppings.
    that is the reason water soluble vitamins need to be replenished more often than fat soluble vitamins.

    of all the vitamins or nutrients chickens are more likely to be deficient in vitamins A,D,and B2 [riboflavin].

    a vitamin supplement will give your fowl a boost
    during times of stress
    such as when there bodies are battling a disease
    when the weather is unpleasant
    during travel to and from a derby
    before and after a derby
    and during breeding season

    chicks will get off to a good start you give them a vitamin supplement the first 3 weeks of there life.

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    Re: understanding the vitamins we use in our fowl

    part 3
    vitamin D
    is necessary for the absorption of calcium to make strong bones ,beaks,claws
    and eggshells.
    our fowl synthesizes vit D from the sunshine,making deficiency more likely in fowl that are caged or housed in a place thats not got access to a proper amount of sunlight.
    deficiency can also occur in fowl fed rations intended for other livestock,since
    chickens need vit. D3 while most other stock require vit D2.

    some more of the signs of vitamin D deficiency
    a continuing cycle of normal egg production followed by the appearance of thin- soft shelled eggs followed by a drop in egg production followed by a return to normal production.
    a deficient hen may have weak legs right before she lays an egg ,causing to squat in a penguin like stance.
    if the deficiency is not corrected her beak , claws ,and keel will become soft and the eggs will be small with reduction in hatch ability.
    a chickens need for vitamin d is closely tied to its needs for the minerals calcium and phosphorus.
    a deficiency in any of these 3 minerals can also result in rickets [in young birds ]
    IT CAN ALSO CAUSE EGG EATING.

    excess vitamin D causes kidney damage.
    1 sign of too much vit D in a hen's diet is calcium "pimples on eggshells when scraped off leave little holes in the shells.

    deficiency of vitamin D can easily be corrected by adding cod liver oil at 2% rate to the feed or by adding vitamin A,D&E POWDER TO THE DRINKING WATER THREE TIMES A WEEK.

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    Re: understanding the vitamins we use in our fowl

    part 4
    vitamin E
    is necessary for normal reproduction and resistance to ESHERICHIA COLI INFECTION [COLIBACILLOSIS].
    vitamin E in fortified rations degenerates rapidly ,especially when temperature and humidity are high.

    deficiency is most likely to occur in confined young birds fed a deit that's high in soy bean oil or cod liver oiland in birds fed a rations containing rancid fats.

    deficiency in chicks and young fowl can result in encephalomalacia, exudative diathesis,or WHITE MUSCLE DISEASE.
    I THINK THIS PERTAINS TO SOME OF THE GUYS WHO HAVE A LOT OF TROUBLE MAINTAINING A GOOD BREAST ON THEIR COCKS.
    JUST MY OPINION OR THOUGHT
    IT CAN ALSO CAUSE LOSS OF FERTILITY IN COCKS.

    WHEAT GERM OIL IS A GOOD SOURCE TO HELP CORRECT THIS PROBLEM ,WHEN USED FRESH.
    AND ALSO I THINK THE SOAKED OATS
    A GOOD STARTING POINT WOULD BE THE 2% MIXED OVER THE FEED METHOD WHEN USING TO WHEAT GERM OIL.
    OR SOAKED OATS MIX WITH FEED DAILY
    Last edited by scott; January 21st, 2012 at 05:08 AM.

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    Re: understanding the vitamins we use in our fowl

    Good post Scott, these are things that can really better our program if taken seriously....talk some about MINERALS

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    Re: understanding the vitamins we use in our fowl

    PART 5
    vitamin K
    is necessary for normal blood clotting.

    signs of deficiency are profuse bleeding from slight wounds and internal bleeding under the skin or into the body cavity.

    alafalfa pellets or leaves are a good source of vitamin K
    when mixed into the daily feed.this is all that is needed.

    i personally dont use or inject a cock with vit k other than the alfalfa pellets mixed in the feed.
    i have bad experiences when injected ,causing the cocks not to be able to throw a rattle when used in gaff
    just my opinion

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    Re: understanding the vitamins we use in our fowl

    Quote Originally Posted by redbreeder View Post
    Good post Scott, these are things that can really better our program if taken seriously....talk some about MINERALS
    ok ,but let me finish with vitamins and i will try to post something on minerals
    yfis

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    Re: understanding the vitamins we use in our fowl

    part 1
    water soluble vitamins
    vitamin B
    IS ACTUALLY A WHOLE GROUP OF UNRELATED SUBSTANCES WHOSE NAMES CHANGE SO OFTEN NOW DAYS ITS HARD FOR ME TO KEEP UP WITH THEM!

    here is sort of a break down on B COMPLEX THE BEST WAY I CAN EXPLAIN IT

    THIAMIN [B1] source = whole grain cereal grains
    RIBOFLAVIN [B2] source = leafy greens,grass,yeast, milk
    PYRIDOXINE[B6] source = all the above and below stated in the b group
    NICOTINIC ACID source = meat protein,whole grain
    [NIACIN]
    PANTOTHENIC ACID source = all the above and below stated in the b group
    BIOTIN[H] source = brewers yeast,leafy greens,molasses
    INOSITOL source = all the above and below stated in the b group
    PARA-AMINO source = yeast and many others stated here
    BENZOIC ACID
    CHOLINE source = many sources found here
    FOLIC ACID source =leafy greens
    B12 source = meat protien
    Last edited by scott; January 21st, 2012 at 04:10 AM.

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    Re: understanding the vitamins we use in our fowl

    part 2

    vitamin B deficiency was not a problem back in the days when cockers could walk their cocks and free range their fowl.
    the fowl was able to roam free and pick in cow patties and horse apples and even the old out door john in some cases.lol
    health problems seem to occur more often in confined fowl .
    back in the old days lots of the good breeders and feeders tossed horse or cow manure in the pens.
    but no one new why it worked until around 1948 ,researchers discovered that manure contains vitamin B12.
    also i like horse manure that comes off of stud horse ranches because theY give a lot of vitamins and male hormones to the horses,and they feed lots of oats that go throw the horse partly digested that are saturated with all these goodies for my cocks and rest of the yard as far as that goes.

    the B12 vitamin is unique among nutrients in that it is almost exclusively found in animal products.

    deficiency can occur more often in housed or caged chickens, especially those fed to much soy meal in their diet as a main source of protein.

    CURL TOE PARALYSIS IN CHICKS IS A SIGN OF RIBOFLAVIN [B2] DEFICIENCY ,OCCURRING WHEN PENNED BROOD HENS ARE FED UNSUPPLEMENTED LAY RATIONS.
    GREENS INCLUDING GRASS ARE A GOOD SOURCE OF RIBOFLAVIN.
    MILK ,WHEY AND OTHER DAIRY PRODUCTS WHEN USED IN VERY SMALL
    AMOUNT CAN HELP.
    YOU MUST BE VERY CAREFUL USING THE MILK IT WILL CAUSE DIARRHEA ,AND DEHYDRATE THE FOWL.

    I WOULD RECOMMEND USING A LITTLE CALF MANNA IF I HAD A PROBLEM OR NEED B12 ADDED TO THEIR DIET.
    BUT I USE THE B COMPLEX INJECTED ,
    IF YOU GIVE TOO MUCH YOU WILL KNOW IT BY THE COLOR OF THEIR DROPPINGS [IT WILL TURN A BRICK RED COLOR]
    JUST MY OPINION

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    Re: understanding the vitamins we use in our fowl

    PART 3
    VITAMIN C
    HELPS PREVENT DISEASES BY REDUCING THE HARMFUL EFFECTS OF STRESS
    chickens make their own vitamin C and do not need a supplement except when the abosorption of vitamin C and nutrients are inhibited by stress.
    stress from high temperatures
    moving
    conditioning very hard
    travel times are excessive
    most any very stressful condition you place the cock in.

    don't run out and waist your money on them bullchit stress pills
    regular old vitamin c tablets sold a walmart is just as good and probably better
    give one or half of one ,once a week if think your cocks need help with stress during the keep ,get the ones for kids . COCK AVERAGE 5 POUNDS NOT 100 POUNDS!
    some really high strung cocks can benefit from a little vit C during the keep ,just don't go over board
    just my opinion

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    Re: understanding the vitamins we use in our fowl

    Quote Originally Posted by redbreeder View Post
    good post scott, these are things that can really better our program if taken seriously....talk some about minerals
    ok here goes i little about what i know of minerals

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    Re: understanding the vitamins we use in our fowl

    THIS IS TO TRY AND HELP SOME TO UNDERSTAND THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN VITAMIN AND MINERALS AND HOW WE USE THEM.

    while vitamins are made from organic plant and animal matter
    MINERALS ARE INORGANIC ELEMENTS

    THEY GIVE BONES RIGIDITY AND STRENGTH AND THEY INTERACT WITH OTHER NUTRIENTS TO KEEP THE BODY HEALTHY.
    caged or confined birds are more likely to have mineral deficiencies.
    BUT UNLIKE VITAMINS ,MINERALS DO NOT GO STALE.
    MOST COMERICAL FEEDS CONTAIN ADEQUATE AMOUNTS ,WITH THE POSSIBLE EXCEPTION OF CALCIUM

    THIS IS ONE REASON I TELL PEOPLE DON'T OVER DO THE RED CELL ,IT WILL DO MORE HARM THAN GOOD WHEN YOU DON'T USE IT PROPERLY.

    calcium and phosphorus are needed by chicks for bone formation and by hens for egg formation.
    calcium and phosphorus are interrelated and both require some vitamin D to be metabolized.
    a deficiency in vitamin D can cause a deficiency of calcium and / or phosphorus.
    go to part 2 of this post
    Last edited by scott; January 21st, 2012 at 07:31 AM.

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    Re: understanding the vitamins we use in our fowl

    part2 on post about minerals

    no mater what the cause a deficiency of calcium and phosphorus increases a chicken's susceptibility to paracitic infection.
    beetles and other hard shelled bugs contain lots of calcium and phosphorus and protein ,but they also can be a source of parasitic infection.

    a good supplement of calcium is ground oyster shells or limestone,but don't use the dolomitic limestone cause it can stop egg production.

    older hens need more calcium than younger hens ,AND ALL HENS NEED MORE CALCIUM IN WARM WEATHER.
    if the eggshells feel rough that is a sign of too much calcium.

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    Re: understanding the vitamins we use in our fowl

    part 3 minerals

    magnesium is needed for bone formatiom ,eggshell formation
    AND THE MOST IMPORTANT THING FOR ME IS THE METABOLISM OF CARBOHYDRATES.
    A CHICKENS DIET IS MORE LIKELY TO HAVE TOO MUCH MAGNESIUM THAN TO LITTLE ,CAUSING THEM TO HAVE DIARRHEA AND SMALLER EGGS WITH THIN SHELLS.

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    Re: understanding the vitamins we use in our fowl

    Part 4
    copper
    which red cell vitaman used on horse feed has a lot ,that is the thing about red cell ,somepeople just don't understand how potent or concentrated that stuff is with the heavy medals ,so very little goes a long way.
    copper deficiency can cause the loss of feather color
    and the big one is it has something in common with manganese,
    the METABOLIISM OF both are affected by coccidiosis.
    Last edited by scott; January 21st, 2012 at 07:34 AM.

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    Re: understanding the vitamins we use in our fowl

    Part 5 minerals

    manganese
    is needed for normal bones ,for good eggshell quality
    and the big one, it helps to prevent slip tendons.

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    Re: understanding the vitamins we use in our fowl

    Part 6
    potassium
    a deficiency can occur during times of extreme heat and stress
    resulting in weak cocks
    also a drop in egg production and thin shells

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    Re: understanding the vitamins we use in our fowl

    Part 7
    selenium
    deficiency is associated with white muscle disease
    an excess of selenium increases susceptibility to salmonellosis

    i read a study the poultry industry was doing on this several yrs ago .
    They were saying corn and other grain grown east of the mississippi river may be low in selenium and in the north west where the soil is selenium deficient.
    Grains grown in canada and the great plains contain an excess of selenium.
    Don't know for sure just read it.

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    Re: understanding the vitamins we use in our fowl

    Got stop for now ,next i want to talk about salt
    yfis

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    Re: understanding the vitamins we use in our fowl

    hehehe i copy all you post scott thanks alot....

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    Senior Member prietos2's Avatar
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    Re: understanding the vitamins we use in our fowl

    Excellent Thread Scott, I like the way you break it down.

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    Re: understanding the vitamins we use in our fowl

    thanks guys
    robert my friend i have been very busy i will call you later.

  29. #26
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    Re: understanding the vitamins we use in our fowl

    Thats fine Scott. I got a Main I got to go to this week in MX. so if you need anything let me know I'll be leaving on Monday.

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    Senior Member Rogelio Monzon's Avatar
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    Re: understanding the vitamins we use in our fowl

    Mr.scot can you give us the proper dosage of red cell and how often too use it..some people say 1/2cc per gallon of feed others say 5 tablespoon i dont know...thank you mr.scott

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    Re: understanding the vitamins we use in our fowl

    Quote Originally Posted by scott View Post
    Part 7
    selenium
    deficiency is associated with white muscle disease
    an excess of selenium increases susceptibility to salmonellosis

    i read a study the poultry industry was doing on this several yrs ago .
    They were saying corn and other grain grown east of the mississippi river may be low in selenium and in the north west where the soil is selenium deficient.
    Grains grown in canada and the great plains contain an excess of selenium.
    Don't know for sure just read it.
    This is a very Nice Thread keep on posting sir,you help a lot of cockers..

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    Re: understanding the vitamins we use in our fowl

    Good thread,,,,i have helped alot of people with their feed over the years and a major failure at show time comes from a lack of FEED RESPONCE,,,,of which there are mitigating factors,,,,,,One is usually Custom blended feeds with a consistent overage of protein and vitamin supply, that is given the bird on a daily basis.........EVERYTHING has it's place with roosters,,,,that includes the time for blood builders and the use of vitimins,,,as the aminoplex allows for the performance you're looking for to help occur,,,,,,,,,,,I'M SURE,,,,,you all,,,that have been in the birds for several years have encountered this situation,,,,,,you meet an older cocker,,,,,,get some birds from him,,,,take em home,,,,shoot the good feed to em and win like crazy with em,,,,,you go back,,,buy him out,,,,,take all the birds home with you and after awhile,,,,they stop winning for you,,,,,,,you deem the old mans birds NO BETTER than yours and disguard them,,,,,,,THE LESSON IS ALWAYS LIKE A FLOWER,,,,YOU SHOOT THE MINERALS AND SUPPLEMENTS TO THE FLOWER IT BLOOMS,,,,THEN FALLS BACK OFF,,,,,AS NOTHING STAYS AT THE VERY TOP ALL THE TIME...........A BIRD THOUGH COMES AROUND ALOT FASTER,,,,THE PRINCIPAL IS THE SAME,,,,,THE PRIZE FIGHTER TRAINS AND GETS READY FOR THE FIGHT,,,,,ONE OF THE BEST WAS ,,,,,ALI,,,,,YOU WOULD SEE HIM OUT OF SHAPE,,,,,ENJOYING STREET FOOD,,,,,,,UNTIL HE STARTED TO TRAIN,,,,,,AND WHEN HE TOOK A FIGHT SERIOUS,,,,NOBODY HAS EVER BEEN BETTER,,,,,,,HE UNDERSTOOD THIS EXAMPLE BETTER THAN MOST ANY FIGHTER EVER,,,,,,,,,,BRK
    Last edited by brownred kelso; January 22nd, 2012 at 07:26 PM.

  33. #30
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    Re: understanding the vitamins we use in our fowl

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogelio Monzon View Post
    Mr.scot can you give us the proper dosage of red cell and how often too use it..some people say 1/2cc per gallon of feed others say 5 tablespoon i dont know...thank you mr.scott
    i will tell how i use it ,but very busy on week ends
    i will be back tuesday and try to help

    if someone else wants to give us their dosage and how they administer red cell please do so

    or some good pointers on vitamins and minerals and how to use them

    everybody is welcome here!
    yfis

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