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Thread: Elementary Genetics

  1. #1261
    Member Tiny M.'s Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Jeb, I will be away from all the action. But the children will be roaming around. My higher authority will also be with us. Should be fun.

    I just messed up my iPad. Was installing iCloud and deleted apps and about 12,000 pictures in the process! arrrrgh!

    $hit hits the fan!

    Dang I was doing the update without glasses....hehehe. Serves me right!

  2. #1262
    CyberFriends Pinolim's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    You will never be away from the cockfighting action....there is a good cockpit in Boracay...you want me to announce your coming in Boracay??? I surely can do that....but I know you will be there for relaxation........no sbrong for the moment....

  3. #1263
    Member Tiny M.'s Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Hello all,

    In the many years enjoying gamefowl, I had the opportunity to use close inbreeding, mating brother to sister, father to daughter, mother to son, and them full sibling mating again. Our One Minute Lemons were bred this way. We started with what was considered "pure" fowl. But these were also genetically defective. They suffered from paling eye pigmentation that manifested when bred closely. This was the reason these fowl were crossed unto Doc Robinson Hatches, Kelsos, Sweaters and they produced good fighters.
    Over the many years, selecting only the red eyed, good stationed offspring, the One Minutes we have today are not showing the paling eyes syndrome. But I am sure in the future, one or two will manifest the syndrome. And a good eye should eliminate these and not use them for further breeding on.

    Are they still game? Can they still carry the long knife after such close inbreeding? Well, one was applauded in the recent Sagupaan derby. A yellow legged Lemon lost a good fight against a 7 time winner that was also damaged bad. Maybe even killed as well. The green legged Lemon was hardly scratched. There were times when we only used 3-5 broods tags to be bred after they have won at least one good fight, out of over 100 raised. It was even harder to select the brood pullets.

    We also had the chance to breed using RRS or recurrent, reciprocal selection as a breeding template. We concentrated the characteristics we wanted using additive infusion from diverse winners that we had. No these were not "pure" blooded fowl, but highly concentrated in the performance genes, from actual winning fowl. Heterosis or hybrid vigor was a big bonus! We simply added the performance genes via good performing winners. Speed, power, cutting, timing, high breaking capabilities etc., we're added in small doses. To BOTH the henside and cockside.

    What system should YOU use? The answer is simple. Whatever works for you. Your time, your money, your enjoyment. Whatever wins for you.

    The moment you are frustrated with gamefowl, maybe it is time to quit.

    Please stay well. Life is Good!

  4. #1264
    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny M. View Post
    Jeb, I will be away from all the action. But the children will be roaming around. My higher authority will also be with us. Should be fun.

    I just messed up my iPad. Was installing iCloud and deleted apps and about 12,000 pictures in the process! arrrrgh!

    $hit hits the fan!

    Dang I was doing the update without glasses....hehehe. Serves me right!
    Wow shucks! I hope you had a chance to sync your Ipad files with a PC! That sucks! Cash you can withdraw, memories are priceless! i hope those pictures are recovered.

    Happy holiday tomorrow to all!
    Last edited by jailbird; April 30th, 2012 at 11:25 PM.

  5. #1265
    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny M. View Post
    Hello all,

    In the many years enjoying gamefowl, I had the opportunity to use close inbreeding, mating brother to sister, father to daughter, mother to son, and them full sibling mating again. Our One Minute Lemons were bred this way. We started with what was considered "pure" fowl. But these were also genetically defective. They suffered from paling eye pigmentation that manifested when bred closely. This was the reason these fowl were crossed unto Doc Robinson Hatches, Kelsos, Sweaters and they produced good fighters.
    Over the many years, selecting only the red eyed, good stationed offspring, the One Minutes we have today are not showing the paling eyes syndrome. But I am sure in the future, one or two will manifest the syndrome. And a good eye should eliminate these and not use them for further breeding on.

    Are they still game? Can they still carry the long knife after such close inbreeding? Well, one was applauded in the recent Sagupaan derby. A yellow legged Lemon lost a good fight against a 7 time winner that was also damaged bad. Maybe even killed as well. The green legged Lemon was hardly scratched. There were times when we only used 3-5 broods tags to be bred after they have won at least one good fight, out of over 100 raised. It was even harder to select the brood pullets.

    We also had the chance to breed using RRS or recurrent, reciprocal selection as a breeding template. We concentrated the characteristics we wanted using additive infusion from diverse winners that we had. No these were not "pure" blooded fowl, but highly concentrated in the performance genes, from actual winning fowl. Heterosis or hybrid vigor was a big bonus! We simply added the performance genes via good performing winners. Speed, power, cutting, timing, high breaking capabilities etc., we're added in small doses. To BOTH the henside and cockside.

    What system should YOU use? The answer is simple. Whatever works for you. Your time, your money, your enjoyment. Whatever wins for you.

    The moment you are frustrated with gamefowl, maybe it is time to quit.

    Please stay well. Life is Good!
    my Baby Asil grey cross just turned out to be such a good sparrer. Now im happy that the unintentional BS mating with his sisters produced a number of cockerels - i hope they turn out good enough to Win and breed again. Breeding towards hack attarctive roosters.
    Last edited by jailbird; April 30th, 2012 at 11:29 PM.

  6. #1266
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny M. View Post
    Hello all,

    In the many years enjoying gamefowl, I had the opportunity to use close inbreeding, mating brother to sister, father to daughter, mother to son, and them full sibling mating again. Our One Minute Lemons were bred this way. We started with what was considered "pure" fowl. But these were also genetically defective. They suffered from paling eye pigmentation that manifested when bred closely. This was the reason these fowl were crossed unto Doc Robinson Hatches, Kelsos, Sweaters and they produced good fighters.
    Over the many years, selecting only the red eyed, good stationed offspring, the One Minutes we have today are not showing the paling eyes syndrome. But I am sure in the future, one or two will manifest the syndrome. And a good eye should eliminate these and not use them for further breeding on.

    Are they still game? Can they still carry the long knife after such close inbreeding? Well, one was applauded in the recent Sagupaan derby. A yellow legged Lemon lost a good fight against a 7 time winner that was also damaged bad. Maybe even killed as well. The green legged Lemon was hardly scratched. There were times when we only used 3-5 broods tags to be bred after they have won at least one good fight, out of over 100 raised. It was even harder to select the brood pullets.

    We also had the chance to breed using RRS or recurrent, reciprocal selection as a breeding template. We concentrated the characteristics we wanted using additive infusion from diverse winners that we had. No these were not "pure" blooded fowl, but highly concentrated in the performance genes, from actual winning fowl. Heterosis or hybrid vigor was a big bonus! We simply added the performance genes via good performing winners. Speed, power, cutting, timing, high breaking capabilities etc., we're added in small doses. To BOTH the henside and cockside.

    What system should YOU use? The answer is simple. Whatever works for you. Your time, your money, your enjoyment. Whatever wins for you.

    The moment you are frustrated with gamefowl, maybe it is time to quit.

    Please stay well. Life is Good!
    ***The BEST words of wisdom in this sport of the Kings.
    Stay well as well sir.

  7. #1267
    Member E.G.Walsh's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Truly WORDS OF WISDOM an Great understanding. Sir Tiny when you have the time please check the PM message i sent you, should be in your inbox, an please shoot me a PM back when you get the chance, Muchachos gratsi 

    To all the best of health an Gods Blessings

    yfis
    Ray
    E.G.Walsh

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny M. View Post
    Hello all,

    In the many years enjoying gamefowl, I had the opportunity to use close inbreeding, mating brother to sister, father to daughter, mother to son, and them full sibling mating again. Our One Minute Lemons were bred this way. We started with what was considered "pure" fowl. But these were also genetically defective. They suffered from paling eye pigmentation that manifested when bred closely. This was the reason these fowl were crossed unto Doc Robinson Hatches, Kelsos, Sweaters and they produced good fighters.
    Over the many years, selecting only the red eyed, good stationed offspring, the One Minutes we have today are not showing the paling eyes syndrome. But I am sure in the future, one or two will manifest the syndrome. And a good eye should eliminate these and not use them for further breeding on.

    Are they still game? Can they still carry the long knife after such close inbreeding? Well, one was applauded in the recent Sagupaan derby. A yellow legged Lemon lost a good fight against a 7 time winner that was also damaged bad. Maybe even killed as well. The green legged Lemon was hardly scratched. There were times when we only used 3-5 broods tags to be bred after they have won at least one good fight, out of over 100 raised. It was even harder to select the brood pullets.

    We also had the chance to breed using RRS or recurrent, reciprocal selection as a breeding template. We concentrated the characteristics we wanted using additive infusion from diverse winners that we had. No these were not "pure" blooded fowl, but highly concentrated in the performance genes, from actual winning fowl. Heterosis or hybrid vigor was a big bonus! We simply added the performance genes via good performing winners. Speed, power, cutting, timing, high breaking capabilities etc., we're added in small doses. To BOTH the henside and cockside.

    What system should YOU use? The answer is simple. Whatever works for you. Your time, your money, your enjoyment. Whatever wins for you.

    The moment you are frustrated with gamefowl, maybe it is time to quit.

    Please stay well. Life is Good!

  8. #1268
    Member Tiny M.'s Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Hello Jeb, I bought me the new iPad, and I thought of upgrading the program of the old one. Erased the apps, and the pictures! And when I opened a new iCloud account, it overwrote my old iTunes account. It was food the new iPad was able to recover the apps, and the original iTunes account, but the old one lost all pics, and I have a new itunes/ apple store account. 12,000 pictures lost.

    Ray, when you are inztown, I hope I would also be around so we can exchange ideas over some coffee and lunch at the farm. I wish you well.

    I got me some Albanys and some Gull blood recently. Aggressive fighters. I hope to put some brakes on their attitude with a dose of Oriental blood. Too many fowl. Way too many!

    Please stay well. LIFE IS GOOD!

  9. #1269
    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny M. View Post
    Hello Jeb, I bought me the new iPad, and I thought of upgrading the program of the old one. Erased the apps, and the pictures! And when I opened a new iCloud account, it overwrote my old iTunes account. It was food the new iPad was able to recover the apps, and the original iTunes account, but the old one lost all pics, and I have a new itunes/ apple store account. 12,000 pictures lost.

    Ray, when you are inztown, I hope I would also be around so we can exchange ideas over some coffee and lunch at the farm. I wish you well.

    I got me some Albanys and some Gull blood recently. Aggressive fighters. I hope to put some brakes on their attitude with a dose of Oriental blood. Too many fowl. Way too many!

    Please stay well. LIFE IS GOOD!
    In one of my posts I said I believe you had more than enough materials to win the WSC 3 times over. I may have to restate that into 10 times over hahahahaha.

    Now, as you would say in the board room: The company has all the resources required at its' disposal: the shareholders are willing, eager and all out supportive - it's time for the Executive team to Plan, Organize, Lead and Control - AND DELIVER!!!!

    Good luck sir! That Cigar may be lit sooner than you think!

  10. #1270
    Senior Member swallow's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Quote Originally Posted by jailbird View Post
    my Baby Asil grey cross just turned out to be such a good sparrer. Now im happy that the unintentional BS mating with his sisters produced a number of cockerels - i hope they turn out good enough to Win and breed again. Breeding towards hack attarctive roosters.
    I remember very well about 10 years back when Tiny regular writes articles on those Sabungero Magazine he mentioned about Greys and Asils being like Coffee and Creamer. He also mentioned about Greys and Roundheads being the same. I read so many articles written by Mr. Meneses and i kept them in mind.

    Now since i am a Grey Lover, i had made asil/rh crosses for my Grey.

  11. #1271
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny M. View Post
    Hello all,

    In the many years enjoying gamefowl, I had the opportunity to use close inbreeding, mating brother to sister, father to daughter, mother to son, and them full sibling mating again. Our One Minute Lemons were bred this way. We started with what was considered "pure" fowl. But these were also genetically defective. They suffered from paling eye pigmentation that manifested when bred closely. This was the reason these fowl were crossed unto Doc Robinson Hatches, Kelsos, Sweaters and they produced good fighters.
    Over the many years, selecting only the red eyed, good stationed offspring, the One Minutes we have today are not showing the paling eyes syndrome. But I am sure in the future, one or two will manifest the syndrome. And a good eye should eliminate these and not use them for further breeding on.

    Are they still game? Can they still carry the long knife after such close inbreeding? Well, one was applauded in the recent Sagupaan derby. A yellow legged Lemon lost a good fight against a 7 time winner that was also damaged bad. Maybe even killed as well. The green legged Lemon was hardly scratched. There were times when we only used 3-5 broods tags to be bred after they have won at least one good fight, out of over 100 raised. It was even harder to select the brood pullets.

    We also had the chance to breed using RRS or recurrent, reciprocal selection as a breeding template. We concentrated the characteristics we wanted using additive infusion from diverse winners that we had. No these were not "pure" blooded fowl, but highly concentrated in the performance genes, from actual winning fowl. Heterosis or hybrid vigor was a big bonus! We simply added the performance genes via good performing winners. Speed, power, cutting, timing, high breaking capabilities etc., we're added in small doses. To BOTH the henside and cockside.

    What system should YOU use? The answer is simple. Whatever works for you. Your time, your money, your enjoyment. Whatever wins for you.

    The moment you are frustrated with gamefowl, maybe it is time to quit.

    Please stay well. Life is Good!
    Sir Tiny from your experience which breeding method worked the best for you in maintaining a line..the intense inbreeding or the reciprocal recurrent selection?

  12. #1272
    Member farenheight's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Quote Originally Posted by pumpkin hulsey View Post
    Sir Tiny from your experience which breeding method worked the best for you in maintaining a line..the intense inbreeding or the reciprocal recurrent selection?
    Me also want what will be best but tiny m. Said it depends what will be your taste and winning key :-)

  13. #1273
    Member Tiny M.'s Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    The reason for the brother-sister mating to my mind, is to get all the genes from the broodcock and the broodhen, including the sex linked genes. nothing wrong with this method provided the brood material we start with is solid to begin with. Nothing concentrates genes faster than intense inbreeding, and likewise, nothing ruins the bloodline as fast! if there are weak genes present, they will manifest. These you eliminate, cull, fight to test, and cull in the pits. Defective offspring should not be bred.

    RSS works well because it is easier, and the fowl are more healthy. If you have access to winners whose character you wish to concentrate unto your fowl, it is as easy as asking, borrowing, buying, saving your good winners and breeding them onwards. Remember, breeding the characteristics to both henside and cockside.

    TIMING is best when given in solid, accurate blows. A well placed hit is just as good as a multiple hit, but the multi-hit is a big insurance for a win. Gamefowl are bred with the knowledge to avoid the spurs of their opponent. This is why even the bare heel Orientals neck wrestle, and even hide under the wings of their opponents to avoid being hit in the head with the bare naked heels. The fowl are therefore not hatched ready to avoid the extra long knife that are in vogue these days. Even when retreating, they can be hurt, even if at first lightly, but the succeeding multi-hits would soon find its mark and end the fight.

    If you would notice the TIMING of the Oriental blends. They do not fly and break with the opponent, but even before the breaking rooster lands, feet barely touching the ground, and not yet ready to fight back, here comes the Oriental Grade with deadly hits to finish the opponent. this is the reason in the pit, the Oriental Grade is NOT heated, but kept cool, lest he fight like an American type fowl.

    Whatever works for you. But enjoy the game. Have fun. Make many friends.

  14. #1274
    CyberFriends chili_sm's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny M. View Post
    Whatever works for you. But enjoy the game. Have fun. Make many friends.
    Sir TM,
    This site is improved and graced by threads and posts like this. Educational and experienced writers. In impeccable english at that. Pls keep them coming.

  15. #1275
    Member nicogamefarm's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Frank Shy
    time after time year after year cocker breeders pay big for outstanding performer at the pits hoping to acquire brood cocks of exceptional merit. Probably they are right in doing so. I know of no better method. But the purchasers should be aware that not one out of ten superlative pit performers ever turns out to be an outstanding sire. These fellows who invest millions in champion race horses for their stud hopes have other millions to throw away and never miss them.But the chances are that you do not have that kind of money to throw away. So don't spend more for a brood cock than you can afford.And realize that such great cocks chances of being a superior sire in no better than one in ten. If his offspring from your best hens turn out to be disappointing don't be surprised. Remember that his chances of repeating himself are no better than one in ten. Don't become bitter toward the man form whom you purchased the cock.He knows the cock pit performance the same as you do, but he cannot guarantee his reproductive ability.The two qualities are entirely separate, and possession of the one is no guarantee whatever of possession of the other.
    A couple of other examples may demonstrate the point.
    1. A close friend of mine operated a large game fowl ranch. Raised 300 or more stags to maturity each year. He used to arrange with the prominent entries at the large national cocking derbies to purchase three of their cocks. He would examine all the cocks in their show prior to the derby, and then await their performance before making his selection. Over the years he must have made at least 30, maybe 50, such selections for future brood cocks. And he was a real wise selector, too.Out of all this number I can recall only two maybe three, which were superior enough producers to be repeated in future years.
    Last edited by nicogamefarm; May 2nd, 2012 at 05:59 PM.

  16. #1276
    Moderator malalim's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Sir Tiny, I was already getting tired of the thread and got rejuvenated again with your posts...

    I just want to add that we all should take down notes, records and we need to document all our produce as much as we can. Record the identification-broodfowls, the win-loss ratio of families/lines...Documentation and record keeping is key...

    Whenever my friend chili_sm would show me his financial record keeping and documentation, I wish I can also be as thorough with my breeding...unfortunately time, family and business/work sometimes keeps me off this important task...

  17. #1277
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    let me get my subscription in

  18. #1278
    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Just got home. I passed San Juan coliseum from a work visit in a factory in Marilao. Got to gaff and watch our first fight, CUTTER, JR my 15 month old tinikling dancer. I had to gaff him extra short because of his propensity to side step. A trait he got from his father, and grandfather - which also manifests in his uncles and brothers.

    We were pitted against a rooster with a full peacomb - which looked like a broodcock taken out of broodpen service ;-) against our young bullstag, the peacombed sweater looked invincible. At least to the general public as the odds were 3:2 lotres and we were the deepdown underdog.

    The first few exchanges had no contact as the dancing stag kept avoiding the attacks of the sweater with his trademark sidesteps and then released a frontal multiple - twice - sending the sweater down. But in typical fashion he stepped back and took his time finishing the opposition only when it seemed to be moving or during karyo.

    Mission accomplished - tinikling dancer scores a win with a wound in his wing and a bad cut sa pulso on his left knee - blood spraying. But should be ok as soon as he gets to recover.

    Heres wishing the rest of the team the same luck and another four wins!!! For the championship!!!

    [/QUOTE]If you would notice the TIMING of the Oriental blends. They do not fly and break with the opponent, but even before the breaking rooster lands, feet barely touching the ground, and not yet ready to fight back, here comes the Oriental Grade with deadly hits to finish the opponent. this is the reason in the pit, the Oriental Grade is NOT heated, but kept cool, lest he fight like an American type fowl.

    Whatever works for you. But enjoy the game. Have fun. Make many friends.[/QUOTE]

    Sir Tiny, when i was telling the Saint that The side stepping trait of my roosters came from the JJ Out n Out Kelso, Jovie was perplexed and told me that he thought all the while that it was from my Asils - so i had to clarify that i dont fight Asils (my pets) and it will only be now that i am seriously looking at asils for gamesteel fighting. And for a different reason - the ugly looks ;-)
    I post this because i think that the evasive, good timing and side stepping traits can also be found in western fowl bred to the standards or style desired. The advantage of using the western fowl is that they are inherently faster than most asil types. And they dont have the neck wrestling and bite first before the punch habit that is so hard to breed out.

    Now i understand that there are fast orientals like your Rampuris and some Japs. And these may be worthwhile crossing to western game for the knife. Its just that as a baseline for these "wisefighter/faker" traits some western bloodlines are also an option.

    Maybe i should add that the original breeders of those evasive western fowl may have already infused the oriental blood generations ago. So in effect, they have already done us the service ;-)

    *
    Last edited by jailbird; May 2nd, 2012 at 08:43 PM.

  19. #1279
    Member Tiny M.'s Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Hello Jeb, first, my congratulations for the win! Combination of good bloodlines, correct knife, good conditioning. Good job!

    I agree, the Lemons also have this good timing characteristic. The "abang" style so often seen, and much liked in Bacolod. The smart fighters like Roundheads, Greys, and Kelsos are also known for this trait. The Doc Robinsons, the Albanys, the Gulls, Brownreds, McRaes etc.,seem to be the head-on speed fowl, but there are exceptions of course.

    Once you have the good Asils, you will be pleasantly surprised and infected with Asilitis! An infection very hard to cure. Buy one trio from Tonio Romulo, he has some good ones proven in the big derbies. Steel game. And good to go as halves. Check out the Boles of Serge Capistrano, bred from original Boles stock from the Legend himself.

    OR, await with patience for some of my culls! Hehehe. I only raise culls! Some turn out good, but not always....hehehe.

    Please stay well.

  20. #1280
    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny M. View Post
    Hello Jeb, first, my congratulations for the win! Combination of good bloodlines, correct knife, good conditioning. Good job!

    I agree, the Lemons also have this good timing characteristic. The "abang" style so often seen, and much liked in Bacolod. The smart fighters like Roundheads, Greys, and Kelsos are also known for this trait. The Doc Robinsons, the Albanys, the Gulls, Brownreds, McRaes etc.,seem to be the head-on speed fowl, but there are exceptions of course.

    Once you have the good Asils, you will be pleasantly surprised and infected with Asilitis! An infection very hard to cure. Buy one trio from Tonio Romulo, he has some good ones proven in the big derbies. Steel game. And good to go as halves. Check out the Boles of Serge Capistrano, bred from original Boles stock from the Legend himself.

    OR, await with patience for some of my culls! Hehehe. I only raise culls! Some turn out good, but not always....hehehe.

    Please stay well.
    Hahahahaha thanks sir! You know me im a lover of culls :-) oriental squats, or whatever form and substance ;-)

    Yup yup its really infectious. Those Ramps are lovely and their speed is exciting!

  21. #1281
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Congratulations for the first win of the team Mr Jb! Just hoping though that you left some of the luck for the rest of the team.
    Anyway, sir Tiny, my offer for that CULL Thai-Slim pullet still stand IF she's available.

  22. #1282
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    thanks to this thread, now i know why my 1/4brownred,1/4hatch,1/2 asil 3-way cross did not do well in the stag derby last year, we heated it to a point that it went head on to the opponent instead of waiting and timing his blows...we've learned the hard way! lol!!! thank you sir! i'll be breeding them back soon, this time 1/4 to 1/8 asil blood in them, with less heat in the pit on fight day.

  23. #1283
    Member Tiny M.'s Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    One of the best Asil breeders in the States is Jerry Wallace of Alabama. His fowl are campaigned by W. Kollet with good results! I got 5 heads from W. Kollet, direct from Jerry and I am very happy with them. If you have watched W. Kollet release, you will notice he just keeps his bird quiet on one side. He does not even have a pecker in the pit. The only time I saw him rattled was when "nasubuan" sya in Araneta. He had no choice but to release his bird unto the oncoming aggressive opponent, knife scabbard having been taken off already. He lost that fight. But his average is real good. Good person.

    One very big time cocker imported over 100 stags from Jerry Wallace to be matured and molted here for the WSC. Whew! Here they come!

    I am breeding more culls. This time some of the high flying Kelsos. More culls coming.
    Last edited by Tiny M.; May 3rd, 2012 at 03:57 AM.

  24. #1284
    Member Tiny M.'s Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Hope, in the future, should you need to freshen up your JB's with the same bloodlines, but generations detached, just give me a holler. Easier to ship to Adonis than for you to ship from the US. Although I found out you and Bob Rizzo were schoolmates. Good man this Doc Rizzo! He got some of the original broodcocks and hens from John Bishop himself. I got seven hens from the Bishops and the ones from you to breed. Should be able to produce many in a short time. These we will keep. But just keep this thought in the back of your mind. You offered me once, now is the time to offer you the same. Please stay well.

    Life Is Good!

  25. #1285
    Senior Member competitor's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny M. View Post
    One of the best Asil breeders in the States is Jerry Wallace of Alabama. His fowl are campaigned by W. Kollet with good results! I got 5 heads from W. Kollet, direct from Jerry and I am very happy with them. If you have watched W. Kollet release, you will notice he just keeps his bird quiet on one side. He does not even have a pecker in the pit. The only time I saw him rattled was when "nasubuan" sya in Araneta. He had no choice but to release his bird unto the oncoming aggressive opponent, knife scabbard having been taken off already. He lost that fight. But his average is real good. Good person.

    One very big time cocker imported over 100 stags from Jerry Wallace to be matured and molted here for the WSC. Whew! Here they come!

    I am breeding more culls. This time some of the high flying Kelsos. More culls coming.


    Sir TM,looks like there's no more stopping these culls in joining the WSC?soon they will hit their mark...

  26. #1286
    Member oddbird66's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny M. View Post
    Hello Jeb, first, my congratulations for the win! Combination of good bloodlines, correct knife, good conditioning. Good job!

    I agree, the Lemons also have this good timing characteristic. The "abang" style so often seen, and much liked in Bacolod. The smart fighters like Roundheads, Greys, and Kelsos are also known for this trait. The Doc Robinsons, the Albanys, the Gulls, Brownreds, McRaes etc.,seem to be the head-on speed fowl, but there are exceptions of course.

    Once you have the good Asils, you will be pleasantly surprised and infected with Asilitis! An infection very hard to cure. Buy one trio from Tonio Romulo, he has some good ones proven in the big derbies. Steel game. And good to go as halves. Check out the Boles of Serge Capistrano, bred from original Boles stock from the Legend himself.

    OR, await with patience for some of my culls! Hehehe. I only raise culls! Some turn out good, but not always....hehehe.

    Please stay well.

    Watta coincidence!!!! I run a cull rescue center in San Pedro Laguna... The uglier they are, the more love they get...

    Hope all is well Tito Tiny... We did pretty good last night, 3-2. Sir Nemy's bird put us in the winner's bracket with the last money fight. Will miss you on Sunday but am looking forward to visiting Mirabella again. Take care!

  27. #1287
    Member nicogamefarm's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    the only good thing about the term PURE BREED specially in gamefowls are the market value same as those vitamins pellets that they say it works YES REALLY ITS WORKS THEY EARNED MORE THAN THE HELP
    IT BRINGS TO A POOR BREEDER OR A COCKERS . he he he he he hE

  28. #1288
    Member Tiny M.'s Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Nico, how true!

    Today's clockers and breeders are more discerning and smarter than most others in different hobbies because there is the parameter of performance involved. Unlike collecting figurines that is static, breeding gamefowl is very dynamic. If the bloodlines, or the supplements don't deliver, well, they get replaced, it is as simple as that. If they don't get replaced pronto, the more losses are incurred. Then it is a reflection that the breeder is not all that smart. The consequence of his decision, or lack of discernment.

    Gamefowl breeding and gamefowl fighting is also a free choice. If the cocker or breeder wants to buy a label that says "pure" then that is his prerogative and choice. If he is contented with crossed fowl, then it is also his choice. NOBODY will impose, nor FORCE a fellow cocker to buy roosters of a certain bloodline. It's HIS choice. If he makes the wrong choice, at least it was his to make. His accountability. His money. His enjoyment, or frustration as the case may be. My grandmother use to tell me, "BUNTOT MO, HILA MO!"

    We are accountable for ALL our actions! Gamefowl breeding and Gamefowl fighting are NOT exceptions.

    Please stay well!
    Last edited by Tiny M.; May 3rd, 2012 at 09:33 AM.

  29. #1289
    Member Tiny M.'s Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Dondi, let's schedule within the month of May. I am again out of town in June. A daughter wants to watch a tennis game.

    LIFE US GOOD!

    When it comes to Orientals, Jim Clem who is right here with us has some awesome performers. Go watch the WSC and see how they win! The Jap-Black grades are fast, accurate and deadly! They fight against the best there is, and they win most of their fights!

    Go talk with Jim. Or better yet schedule a visit to his farm. Autumn should be a good time to select stags. My friend Manny Ong is making plans to visit. Should be a good journey.

    Please stay well.
    Last edited by Tiny M.; May 3rd, 2012 at 09:30 AM.

  30. #1290
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Quote Originally Posted by tiny m. View Post
    nico, how true!

    Today's clockers and breeders are more discerning and smarter than most others in different hobbies because there is the parameter of performance involved. Unlike collecting figurines that are static, breeding gamefowl is very dynamic. If the bloodlines, or the supplements don't deliver, well, they get replaced, as simple as that. If they don't get replaced pronto, they more losses are incurred. Then it is a reflection that the breeder is not all that smart.

    Gamefowl breeding and gamefowl fighting is also a free choice. If the cocker or breeder wants a label that says "pure" then that is his prerogative and choice. If he is contented with crossed fowl, then it is also his choice. Nobody will impose, nor force a fellow cocker to buy roosters of a certain bloodline. It's his choice. If he makes the wrong choice, at least it was his to make. His accountability. His money. His enjoyment, or frustration as the case may be. My grandmother use to tell me, "buntot mo, hila mo!"

    you are accountable for all your actions!

    Please stay well!

    thank you very much mr. Tiny for the reply and for being gentleman in any way.

    Any way

    as what they say

    any conversation without argument in useless or one or both ARE full of s***

    conversation with argument one or both of YOU will learned something.
    Last edited by nicogamefarm; May 3rd, 2012 at 09:30 AM.

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