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Thread: Elementary Genetics

  
  1. #1681
    Member Tiny M.'s Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    You are most welcome, my new friend. And if I can help you with new bloodlines to make your yard a little bit more competitive, I will do that as well. Please stay well. Tomorrow we leave for home. Missing the farm. The derbies and the stags and pullets. I hear the rains are already in the country. The stags and ranged cockerels need to be cared for.

    Hasta la pasta, paisan!

  2. #1682
    Member Tiny M.'s Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Years back, I had some blood that came from Willy Estrada, off the rooster named "Dagul" which was a George Goto Shamo, or so I was told. Mine had dirty feet, with some dark scales interspersed. I bred them brother-sister and produced some good offspring! Smallish, with rounded bodies, they were fast and strong. Bred unto tall Hatches, they were good fowl. Game. They also were good bred unto dark fowl like brown reds. I still have some, and they still look good. I will breed a few more next season.

    Flying back home in a few hours. Missing the fights and the roosters...the pullets as well.

    Life is good.

  3. #1683
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Have a safe trip Sir Tiny..

    God Bless

  4. #1684
    Member Tiny M.'s Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Home at last. I was greeted by a 2-2 win-loss score in Calamba Pintakasi. I was told they were good fights! Horta line continues to win. One son of our 2 time WSC Araneta winner won his second win, the last one at 32 seconds. A younger brother won fastest kill at 12 seconds! Jesse's white leg blood, to my mind, is a Little Walter X Dink Sweater blend. I could be wrong, so I am guessing.....but the good traits have been handed down the offspring. Earlier, a few winners were supposed to be shared with a good friend, but I was about to leave. Also these were not mine, but my partners'. The deal did not push through. My partner fought both roosters, both won! Hehehe, such is the life....

    Today I was at the farm and I looked for the old line of Goto Shamo. I still have some. But these are not pure. The source is of course, Willy Estrada, who loaned "Dagul" a brood cock to Romy Arciaga who bred him to many hens. I was able to get a few. But these were halves only. Bred brother-sister, they threw some very Asil looking offspring, although mine are now a bit darker in plumage, as the other blood used to cross had dark blood. Breeding the more Asil looking rooster over the Asil looking sisters produced more Asil looking offspring. It has a roundish in body, solid and "siksisk" and still good sparrers. I will try to take pictures. It was raining a bit today, wet and muddy at the farm. Next time I am there when the skies clear up, I will take pictures.

    Genetics is a complicated topic. Asil blood persists even at small percentages. If one selects towards the Asil looking offspring, one can breed, over some time, close breeding, stock looking like pure breds, but hey, what I got were not "pure" to start with. Check out Willy Estrada if GOTO Shamos interest you.

    Stay well.

  5. #1685
    Senior Member hope1126's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny M. View Post
    Home at last. I was greeted by a 2-2 win-loss score in Calamba Pintakasi. I was told they were good fights! Horta line continues to win. One son of our 2 time WSC Araneta winner won his second win, the last one at 32 seconds. A younger brother won fastest kill at 12 seconds! Jesse's white leg blood, to my mind, is a Little Walter X Dink Sweater blend. I could be wrong, so I am guessing.....but the good traits have been handed down the offspring. Earlier, a few winners were supposed to be shared with a good friend, but I was about to leave. Also these were not mine, but my partners'. The deal did not push through. My partner fought both roosters, both won! Hehehe, such is the life....

    Today I was at the farm and I looked for the old line of Goto Shamo. I still have some. But these are not pure. The source is of course, Willy Estrada, who loaned "Dagul" a brood cock to Romy Arciaga who bred him to many hens. I was able to get a few. But these were halves only. Bred brother-sister, they threw some very Asil looking offspring, although mine are now a bit darker in plumage, as the other blood used to cross had dark blood. Breeding the more Asil looking rooster over the Asil looking sisters produced more Asil looking offspring. It has a roundish in body, solid and "siksisk" and still good sparrers. I will try to take pictures. It was raining a bit today, wet and muddy at the farm. Next time I am there when the skies clear up, I will take pictures.

    Genetics is a complicated topic. Asil blood persists even at small percentages. If one selects towards the Asil looking offspring, one can breed, over some time, close breeding, stock looking like pure breds, but hey, what I got were not "pure" to start with. Check out Willy Estrada if GOTO Shamos interest you.

    Stay well.
    Hi Tiny
    did u get the 2 jb kelso pullets
    that my bro sent
    good luck

  6. #1686
    CyberFriends gamecock96's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Welcome back Sir Tiny...

    Al

  7. #1687
    Moderator ChinaRose's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: Elementary Genetics

    yesterday was a great day ! I do not
    like surprises but your surprise visit
    was most welcome thanks tiny m.

    can I have more surprise visits ?
    and more gifts !!! ?

    honestly even if you did not bring
    gifts the visit would be most welcome.
    cheeeeeeeeeeeeeers !!!

    ps: you are looking good.
    the french and the english squats
    can really do wonders to ones well-being

    " one life time is not enough to learn about
    gamefowl breeding". it is like a vast universe
    what can come out will never cease to amaze us".

  8. #1688
    Member Tiny M.'s Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Hello Hope, the pullets look terrific! Thanks! Imported looking all the way!

    China, Baldo and I drove to deliver and to say hello! Good to see you! Stay well.

    Wet weather.....the fowl don't like this type of weather. But I do. Was in Tagaytay for breakfast. Nice.

    French, English, Italian games look good. But surprise! Eastern European gamefowl are also known to shuffle hard! The feathers have to be trimmed, and the battle begins.....

    Local bloodlines mix well with western bloodlines. The styles differ but in the end, it's whether one won, or lost. Hard fought drag fights are always most rewarding...would have been interesting to have brought home some....but it would have been problematic.

    Stay well, you all.

  9. #1689
    Senior Member hope1126's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny M. View Post
    Hello Hope, the pullets look terrific! Thanks! Imported looking all the way!

    China, Baldo and I drove to deliver and to say hello! Good to see you! Stay well.

    Wet weather.....the fowl don't like this type of weather. But I do. Was in Tagaytay for breakfast. Nice.

    French, English, Italian games look good. But surprise! Eastern European gamefowl are also known to shuffle hard! The feathers have to be trimmed, and the battle begins.....

    Local bloodlines mix well with western bloodlines. The styles differ but in the end, it's whether one won, or lost. Hard fought drag fights are always most rewarding...would have been interesting to have brought home some....but it would have been problematic.

    Stay well, you all.
    Tiny
    Good luck w/ them.... white legged kelso's

  10. #1690
    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Gentlemen and lady, if you have the time and the itch for some simple potluck lunch this saturday july 14, you are invited to join the ragtag tari tari team for lunch in the Sta Rita Camp in Sucat and some hacks in Elorde after. Birds will be matched in Elorde while we all feast on whatever everyone brings ;-) a fight after will be a bonus but not a must. If you have birds to hack or to test with short, long or any type of weapon, please bring them ;-) those who can come will be most welcome. Its just a prelude to the august event - just to scratch that itch hehehehehe
    Last edited by jailbird; July 10th, 2012 at 10:07 PM.

  11. #1691
    Moderator ChinaRose's Avatar
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    Talking Re: Elementary Genetics

    hello jailbird !!!
    No promises will try...

    " one life time is not enough to learn about
    gamefowl breeding". it is like a vast universe
    what can come out will never cease to amaze us".

  12. #1692
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Quote Originally Posted by jailbird View Post
    Gentlemen and lady, if you have the time and the itch for some simple potluck lunch this saturday july 14, you are invited to join the ragtag tari tari team for lunch in the Sta Rita Camp in Sucat and some hacks in Elorde after. Birds will be matched in Elorde while we all feast on whatever everyone brings ;-) a fight after will be a bonus but not a must. If you have birds to hack or to test with short, long or any type of weapon, please bring them ;-) those who can come will be most welcome. Its just a prelude to the august event - just to scratch that itch hehehehehe
    Sir Jailbird, this looks exciting and it will surely test the produce of the season. I am not quite sure though how this works and if everyone interested is welcome (do we need to bring tari?). I have been following this thread and I really appreciate what you all are sharing. Thank you and more power in the coming derbies.

    LRLacson

  13. #1693
    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Hi Gfarm, there are plenty of tari available with the group. No one charges anything ;-) just bring a snack or whatever little delicacy to share this saturday and you will meet the group ;-) its a lot of fun.

  14. #1694
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Quote Originally Posted by jailbird View Post
    Hi Gfarm, there are plenty of tari available with the group. No one charges anything ;-) just bring a snack or whatever little delicacy to share this saturday and you will meet the group ;-) its a lot of fun.
    Thanks Jailbird! I am sure its a lot of fun. But probably not this Saturday since I will prepare a bit because my farm is in Pampanga. I really appreciate your response and really aching to meet new friends. Thanks Thanks!

  15. #1695
    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Thanks and sorry for the offtopic, didnt mean to hijack this thread - just wanted to invite our good friends ;-)

    Back to topic - can anyone please elaborate further on hennieism or the hennie trait of roosters? I found some info that it is an incomplete dominant gene - anyone please clarify what incomplete dominance means ;-)

    Also that this hennie gene is responsible for the increased conversion of androgen to estrogen in the skin (and most likely the feathers) of the affected roosters.

    I know for a fact that some hens pass on the gene even when mated to a rooster from a non hennie line. Meaning they have the gene. And a Hennie also has the capability to pass it on to his sons even thru a non hennie line female.

    Genetics, genetics ....... More questions than answers hahahahahaha!!!

  16. #1696
    Senior Member hope1126's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Back to topic - can anyone please elaborate further on hennieism or the hennie trait of roosters? I found some info that it is an incomplete dominant gene - anyone please clarify what incomplete dominance means ;-)

    Also that this hennie gene is responsible for the increased conversion of androgen to estrogen in the skin (and most likely the feathers) of the affected roosters.

    I know for a fact that some hens pass on the gene even when mated to a rooster from a non hennie line. Meaning they have the gene. And a Hennie also has the capability to pass it on to his sons even thru a non hennie line female.



    this rooster is out of an imported sweater line from black water farms none hennie parents, the parents were single mated.... he was hatched a red rooster and molted out to a hennie.....
    i had chated w/ the breeder and ask him about hennie coming from his stocks and he has told he never had a hennie blood added to his sweaters....
    he is a 1 x winner a clean win.... and produced winners also....
    he has been in the brood pens again mated to none hennie hens .... single mated...and he has some offsprings that are showing hennie feathers in his stags .....
    how can that happen.....

  17. #1697
    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Although our hennies were started off from a true red hennie line crossed to a maclean hatch, each generation has been outcrossed and they have adapted the colors they have crossed into. Our most successful being the grey hennies, but the reds are also excellent.

    Like Hopes case they always produce SOME hennies on the outcross but seldom a 100percent, sometimes theRe is no Hennie among the clutch produced. And some also come out as straights then molt as hennies. I was trying to figure out how "incomplete dominant" works out so we could have a projected hennie percentage of the output.

    Well very recently, i decided to go back and get the "PURE" hennies from te same ancestors, but bred always as hennie pairs - their male lines are always hennies. Surprisingly - they fight the same as our evolved hennies - but our grey hennies are way way prettier ;-) so a reinfusion of "pure"hennie blood should be interesting. At least by mating the "pure" hens to my proven evolved grey hennie line, i hope to intensify the hennie gene and produce more if not all hennie offspring.

    Now if only someone could explain what that dang incomplete dominant really means in common street language hahahahahahahahappy mating everyone ;-) stags are getting readddddyyyyyy!!!!!
    Last edited by jailbird; July 26th, 2012 at 07:04 AM.

  18. #1698
    Senior Member hope1126's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    the mating that produced hennie stags was from a mel sims green legged hatch and a bone crusher hatch hen......

  19. #1699
    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Quote Originally Posted by hope1126 View Post
    the mating that produced hennie stags was from a mel sims green legged hatch and a bone crusher hatch hen......
    There Is a scheduled Tari Tari session on August 4. We have gaffs, short knives, and all sorts of LK available if anyone wants to test the results of your genetic experiments.

    This is a venue where your birds can express their genotype to affirm their phenotype. And it wont cost you a cent in bets. Just bring your birds, and enjoy the food drinks and tall stories. And learn how to tie knives on your elementary genetics output.
    Last edited by jailbird; July 26th, 2012 at 11:20 PM.

  20. #1700
    Member Tiny M.'s Avatar
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    Smile Re: Elementary Genetics

    Hello friends, been away, and busy. Also been pretending to work in the office...hehehe. But it has been raining bad for some time already. Hennies. A person I know who is passionate about hennies is Orlando Gomez of Florida, who might already have relocated to Puerto Rico. He also breeds Spanish/Cuban fowl as well as Asils. Good person to talk to. President of the Florida Gamebird Association. Knows his marbles real well.

    My santol trees produced a bumper crop of some of the sweetest santol fruits! Coming up are the rambutan fruits! They are fertilized by the chicken droppings under the trees. The best organically grown fruits!

    I was asked recently if it was ok to breed Asil/Oriental cock over American type hens. To fight? Yes! The next question was can he breed the Pullet offspring back to the broodcock? The answer is yes! But if the Asil characteristic was the reason why he would breed back to the Asil broodcock, then it would be better to produce broodstock from an Asil hen bred over by an American type broodcock. And be bred back to the Asil hen again. For my Oriental/Asil grades, I use breeders from that are offspring of the Oriental blood from the henside. But, check what works for you. Every fowl is an individual....

    My style? I have several trios of the "pure" Asils that produce the breeders that I use....and use either way, any which way. But it seems breeding from the Asil, henside produces better results. Please don't take this a gospel truth. Just works for me....

  21. #1701
    Senior Member hope1126's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Hi Tiny
    the santol and rambutan sounds so good.....
    hennies.... i never had a hennie blood until a stag that moulted out a hennie .... parents are non hennie imported parents....

  22. #1702
    CyberFriends Paz Brey's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    welcome back bro.we miss your chicken talk here!
    bro can you give me a little light on cubans?
    traits etc....?thanks

  23. #1703
    Senior Member swallow's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Quote Originally Posted by hope1126 View Post
    Hi Tiny
    the santol and rambutan sounds so good.....
    hennies.... i never had a hennie blood until a stag that moulted out a hennie .... parents are non hennie imported parents....
    Somewhere along the line there most be a hennie, because when you breed him hennies do come out... would you believed i have the same story of Sweater stag and moulted out to be a hennie bullstag... it won for me with only one small scratch in the leg, i just could not believe that it died, otherwise i would have bred him for hennies.

  24. #1704
    Senior Member hope1126's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Quote Originally Posted by swallow View Post
    Somewhere along the line there most be a hennie, because when you breed him hennies do come out... would you believed i have the same story of Sweater stag and moulted out to be a hennie bullstag... it won for me with only one small scratch in the leg, i just could not believe that it died, otherwise i would have bred him for hennies.
    Hi Swallow
    i have chatted w/ the breeder who had bred the sweater line, and he said that he never had hennie blood added to his sweaters....
    the hennei had won when he was bull stag and won clean.... he was still red w/ some hennei feathers in him and he molted to a full hennei ... we had bred him and produced winners. this season he has some stags out of him that have
    hennei feathers.... hopefully will molt out a full hennie

  25. #1705
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Speaking of henny, the oldest broodcock I owned came from my friend Swallow. He was given to me as a stag, back when I was still in school. He died at 10 years of age, he was a good one, very prepotent, was the main blood for years and the cross between that cock and the sweater blood i got from Manny Zagala through Sir Tiny gave me a very good winning season, 39 wins - 11 losses. On his last year, he moulted out. When he was in moult, I noticed that he was growing hen like feathers, and by the time he finished, he was a full blown henny. 10 years in my hands and on his last year, he turned into a henny. How do you explain something like that?

    http://sabong.net.ph/gallery/uploads...69421406_n.jpg
    Last edited by [3rd]; August 2nd, 2012 at 12:58 AM.

  26. #1706
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Quote Originally Posted by [3rd] View Post
    Speaking of henny, the oldest broodcock I owned came from my friend Swallow. He was given to me as a stag, back when I was still in school. He died at 10 years of age, he was a good one, very prepotent, was the main blood for years and the cross between that cock and the sweater blood i got from Manny Zagala through Sir Tiny gave me a very good winning season, 39 wins - 11 losses. On his last year, he moulted out. When he was in moult, I noticed that he was growing hen like feathers, and by the time he finished, he was a full blown henny. 10 years in my hands and on his last year, he turned into a henny. How do you explain something like that?

    http://sabong.net.ph/gallery/uploads...69421406_n.jpg
    ****Very interesting phenomenon indeed. My wild guess though is that, he was so depleted with Testosterone at that old age while his Progesterone build up and just took over.

    Sir Tiny,
    Those sweet santol and rambutan sounds real good but geeeze.....I'm missing those sweet ice cold fresh coconut juice from the backyard already.

  27. #1707
    Member Caliblue10's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Is this a genetic mutation , would you cull this young stag he is a cross so won't be breeding him

  28. #1708
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    What about this on this young stags head only one side is abnormal


  29. #1709
    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    The Saint;4187566]7th invitational Tare Tare session on SATURDAY, August 4, 2012 AT 3:00 PM.

    "STAGAN NA!!!! Praktis Muna... Short Knives and Long knives.." AND GAFFS to test the gameness of our BIRDS!!!!

    We will meet in Starbucks, Santana Grove in Sucat, Paranaque, beside Shopwise Sucat at 1:30 pm and convoy to JAILBIRD's farm at 2:30pm sharp.

    1. Joey Hidalgo / 2 Tagalogs / Bottled Water
    2. Oddbird / 1 native bird / Kambing
    3. Kit Soliman / 2 Bayong stags / corn and Tarlac Fruits
    4. Mr. Saint / 1 Bayong stag / Coke Zero
    5. Jailbird / 2 Western Birds / Pasta and sandwiches
    6. Whel / 1 Tagalog / Cash P1,400
    7. Edong / 1 reject Stag / TBD Fish
    8. Pigafetta08 / 1 Bayong / baked pasta

    Sponsors:
    1. Jack Kie - Tare accessories galore
    2. OR Gallo - 1 trophy
    3. Rugrats - 2 Rugrat semi-slashers
    4. JAILBIRD - 1 40 inch high trophy for the GAFF fastest kill and 1 trophy for the most gallant stand longest kill loser.

    Thanks again to Mr ORo Gallo. Oro trophy this time.

    [/QUOTE]

  30. #1710
    CyberFriends Caloy's Avatar
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    Re: Elementary Genetics

    Quote Originally Posted by [3rd] View Post
    Speaking of henny, the oldest broodcock I owned came from my friend Swallow. He was given to me as a stag, back when I was still in school. He died at 10 years of age, he was a good one, very prepotent, was the main blood for years and the cross between that cock and the sweater blood i got from Manny Zagala through Sir Tiny gave me a very good winning season, 39 wins - 11 losses. On his last year, he moulted out. When he was in moult, I noticed that he was growing hen like feathers, and by the time he finished, he was a full blown henny. 10 years in my hands and on his last year, he turned into a henny. How do you explain something like that?

    http://sabong.net.ph/gallery/uploads...69421406_n.jpg
    Maybe he realized that before he dies, he has to come out on the open..hehehe. Imagine he was keeping it to himself for 10 years..

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