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Thread: Bigay and Hiram Lines

  
  1. #19831
    Senior Member jungold's Avatar
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    Re: Bigay and Hiram Lines

    SOME WONDER HOW CERTAIN COCKER-breeders produce outstanding fighting cocks without any knowledge of gamefowl breeding basics. Others do well in game-fowl breeding loaded with all breeding methods found in the book. The former succeed due to their innate talent or "feel" of the gamefowls, while the latter reach breeding goals due to education. Those whom the author have seen attain breeding goals in so short a time, have that "feel" of the gamecock and read a lot of books and magazines pertaining to gamefowls. It is with this thought that the author decided to touch on this subject?
    There are lots of breeding theories found in the book, but the two most famous are inbreeding and cross-breeding. Let us first touch on inbreeding, Inbreeding is the mating of closely related fowls. If you want to know how to inbreed gamefowls, Iook at the percentage of inbreeding below.
    1. Mating brother & sister- 25% (intensive inbreeding). 2. Mating half-brother & half-sister- 12.5% (moderate inbreeding). 3. Mating uncle & niece; aunt & nephew -12.5% (moderate inbreeding). 4. Mating grandparent & grandchild 12.5% (moderate inbreeding). 5. Mating first cousins - 6.3% (mild inbreeding).
    Select the percentage of inbreeding you think will be applicable to your gamefowls. Remember that the purpose of inbreeding is to fix like genes. The more you inbreed; the more like genes are fixed. These will be further boosted by inbreeding birds having the same phenotype characters tied to some genotypes.
    When you inbreed fowls, watch out for atavism. Atavism is the recurrence in a descendant of characters of a remote ancestor. It may result in deformed beaks, eyes with irregular pupils, breast defects, crooked toes and backs, etc. Atavism will also result in phenotype throwbacks - especially plummage phenotypes. Throwbacks are homozygous dominant.
    A friend of mine once bred a pair of Ray Hoskins Grey. Out of this pair of Grey fowls - two of the progeny were Whites. This pair of White throwbacks begot outstanding cocks - all Whites. He also crossed the throwbacks on other Whites of different strain and still come up with winners. The cross of the White throwback with mongrel cocks also produced good pit fowls. When atavism results in color throwbacks, check if the color phenotype is tied with fighting prowess genotype. When bred, it will give positive results. Genetics is a very tricky business and does not always follow prescribed rules designated by us. Most breeders maintain highly inbred strain of fowls as seed fowls. These breeders do not fight broodfowls; they only fight battlefowls.

  2. #19832
    Senior Member Intrepid's Avatar
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    Re: Bigay and Hiram Lines

    Quote Originally Posted by red warrior View Post
    Mukhang maganda ang talakayan dito ngayon ah, ang kahulugan naman ng salitang "pakikisama". So, pwede tayong sumangguni sa diksyunaryong Filipino na ginawa ng Sentro Ng Wikang Filipino sa UP Diliman...

    Ayon sa SWF, "

    Ang pakikisama ay pakiki-ayon o pakikibagay sa mga kasamahan. Maganda ang pakikisama dahil nagdudulot ito ng magandang samahan at pagkakaisa. Pero minsan kahit masama ang gawain pero dahil sa pakikisama patuloy parin itong ginagawa o pikit-matang inaayunan masabi lang na kabilang ka sa isang samahan."

    hahaha
    Quote Originally Posted by Island Born View Post
    Ayon naman sa Biblia, meron tayong FREEWILL na hindi puedeng pikitmatang umaayon kahit labag sa kalooban

    O ayan babasahan na tau ng bibliya.Me prayer meeting na.

  3. #19833
    Senior Member Intrepid's Avatar
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    Re: Bigay and Hiram Lines

    Sa kitakitz sa sabado malamang naka ''ALL WHITE'' si pastor.

  4. #19834
    Senior Member red warrior's Avatar
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    Re: Bigay and Hiram Lines



    Nood na tayo sa Sabado...
    Last edited by red warrior; July 18th, 2013 at 05:14 PM.

  5. #19835
    Senior Member Island Born's Avatar
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    Re: Bigay and Hiram Lines

    padre no salawal RW mas bagay na ikaw ang kasama ni padre Damaso jg sa loob ng Happy na Sauna pa Kasi wala akong tuksang sa nguso

  6. #19836
    Senior Member Island Born's Avatar
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    Re: Bigay and Hiram Lines

    Quote Originally Posted by Intrepid View Post
    O ayan babasahan na tau ng bibliya.Me prayer meeting na.
    Quote Originally Posted by Intrepid View Post
    Sa kitakitz sa sabado malamang naka ''ALL WHITE'' si pastor.
    Mamumuti talaga ang mga mata ni padre rw at padre jungold sa kakahanap sakin sa MOA

  7. #19837
    Senior Member jungold's Avatar
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    Cool Re: Bigay and Hiram Lines

    Quote Originally Posted by Island Born View Post
    Ayon kay Plaza (Bakbakan Winner), hindi puede yung puro lang Gameness sa larong Slasher/LK. Kailangan ng UTAK at CUTTING. Sa SK, ok lang na puro GAMENESS Nasa larong LK tayo pre jungold Yung mga kano ay SK ang laro

    Bakit sinong Plaza ba yan si Vandolf ba yan, hindi Breeder yan, Financer/Buyer sa Bacolod yan Fafah I.B, kilala mo ba siya ng Personal, eeehh bakit lahat ng breeder na Pinoy sa Americano Bumibile ng Breeding stock kung pang-SK lang pala ang Fighting style nila, lahat yata ng sinasabi mo eeehh di mo kayang Tayoan o patunayan eeehh, galling sa Pit gamefowl Magazine yata yan nabasa mo eeehhhh,,,,

    Hugh Norman, the "Master Breeder", made famous the Rebel Strain of game-fowls. He was one of those breeders who maintain inbred strains and cross them for hybrid vigor (heterosis). To him broodfowls and battlefowls are not the same. He does not fight broodfowls nor breed battlefowls. In this method, the more inbred your seed fowls are, the greater will be the "nick" or hybrid vigor when they are crossed.
    In the Norman Method, we line breed our fowls before crossing. Line-breeding is inbreeding to an individual, each generation we "double up" the genes of the progeny? By line-breeding we try to produce individual(s) genetically as close as the original. Each mating should be carefully evaluated up to the last mating. The progeny from the last mating are kept as replacement broodfowls or be used as seed fowls for crossing.,,,,Yan ang basahin mo Cguradong totoo yan at Dumayo na yan sa Pilipinas at tinalo niya ang mga Magagaling na Breeder/Chicken Man noon 1960's 12-cock main Araneta,,,,Naka-Record yan sa Gamefowl journal....Hindi Hearsay.....

  8. #19838
    Senior Member red warrior's Avatar
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    Re: Bigay and Hiram Lines

    Quote Originally Posted by Island Born View Post
    padre no salawal RW mas bagay na ikaw ang kasama ni padre Damaso jg sa loob ng Happy na Sauna pa Kasi wala akong tuksang sa nguso
    ako nga ang film maker eh... mas marunong ka pa sakin. hehehehe.

  9. #19839
    Senior Member jungold's Avatar
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    Talking Re: Bigay and Hiram Lines

    Quote Originally Posted by red warrior View Post


    Nood na tayo sa Sabado...

    Pre Ka-mukha yata ni Ricky Rogers ako dyan aaahhhhh.....

  10. #19840
    Cyberfriends jun parana's Avatar
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    Re: Bigay and Hiram Lines

    Quote Originally Posted by red warrior View Post


    Nood na tayo sa Sabado...
    whahahaha! huli!!!! magandang hapon mga Brader malapit na kitakits enjoy itagay nalang ninyo akong tig isang basong Blue lable hehe

  11. #19841
    Senior Member Island Born's Avatar
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    Re: Bigay and Hiram Lines

    Quote Originally Posted by jungold View Post
    SOME WONDER HOW CERTAIN COCKER-breeders produce outstanding fighting cocks without any knowledge of gamefowl breeding basics. Others do well in game-fowl breeding loaded with all breeding methods found in the book. The former succeed due to their innate talent or "feel" of the gamefowls, while the latter reach breeding goals due to education. Those whom the author have seen attain breeding goals in so short a time, have that "feel" of the gamecock and read a lot of books and magazines pertaining to gamefowls. It is with this thought that the author decided to touch on this subject?
    There are lots of breeding theories found in the book, but the two most famous are inbreeding and cross-breeding. Let us first touch on inbreeding, Inbreeding is the mating of closely related fowls. If you want to know how to inbreed gamefowls, Iook at the percentage of inbreeding below.
    1. Mating brother & sister- 25% (intensive inbreeding). 2. Mating half-brother & half-sister- 12.5% (moderate inbreeding). 3. Mating uncle & niece; aunt & nephew -12.5% (moderate inbreeding). 4. Mating grandparent & grandchild 12.5% (moderate inbreeding). 5. Mating first cousins - 6.3% (mild inbreeding).
    Select the percentage of inbreeding you think will be applicable to your gamefowls. Remember that the purpose of inbreeding is to fix like genes. The more you inbreed; the more like genes are fixed. These will be further boosted by inbreeding birds having the same phenotype characters tied to some genotypes.
    When you inbreed fowls, watch out for atavism. Atavism is the recurrence in a descendant of characters of a remote ancestor. It may result in deformed beaks, eyes with irregular pupils, breast defects, crooked toes and backs, etc. Atavism will also result in phenotype throwbacks - especially plummage phenotypes. Throwbacks are homozygous dominant.
    A friend of mine once bred a pair of Ray Hoskins Grey. Out of this pair of Grey fowls - two of the progeny were Whites. This pair of White throwbacks begot outstanding cocks - all Whites. He also crossed the throwbacks on other Whites of different strain and still come up with winners. The cross of the White throwback with mongrel cocks also produced good pit fowls. When atavism results in color throwbacks, check if the color phenotype is tied with fighting prowess genotype. When bred, it will give positive results. Genetics is a very tricky business and does not always follow prescribed rules designated by us. Most breeders maintain highly inbred strain of fowls as seed fowls. These breeders do not fight broodfowls; they only fight battlefowls.
    Nakapag Bro-Sis na ako padre jungold , sa 4 male chicks (full brother) isa lang ang medyo baliktad ang tubo ng balahibo sa likod. ang tatlo ay normal. Yung isang pair naman ng Bro-Sis ay isa lang ang anak nila (normal baby pullet).

    Yung isang baliktad balahibo pinamigay ko sa neighbor, doing fine.
    Yung isang male chick ay nabili ng 500p last month.
    Yung isang male chick gift ko kay Padre rw later bigay ko.
    Yung isa lang ang matitira sakin para maipares sa pinsan nya (ito yung normal baby pullet na anak din ng Bro-Sis). Lahat yan alakdan Kelso. Going 2 months old na sila this month.
    Last edited by Island Born; July 18th, 2013 at 05:25 PM.

  12. #19842
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    Re: Bigay and Hiram Lines

    hindi ko na babasahin mga 300 pages back pero aba maganda yata topic dito at marami ako matutunan....mula sa ibat ibang pit gamefowl magazine at may bibliya pa.

  13. #19843
    Senior Member jungold's Avatar
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    Talking Re: Bigay and Hiram Lines

    Quote Originally Posted by jun parana View Post
    whahahaha! huli!!!! magandang hapon mga Brader malapit na kitakits enjoy itagay nalang ninyo akong tig isang basong Blue lable hehe

    Pre Tukayo antayin kita ha, Di sa Moa ha, baka maka-pick up ka pa doon ng Bading na tiga-Telecenter, he,he......

  14. #19844
    Senior Member red warrior's Avatar
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    Re: Bigay and Hiram Lines

    kumusta Iceben....?

    sumama ka sa Sabado... ipapalabas na ang Happy SaUna... Luha sa Huli.

  15. #19845
    Senior Member Intrepid's Avatar
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    Re: Bigay and Hiram Lines

    Quote Originally Posted by red warrior View Post


    Nood na tayo sa Sabado...

    Whahahahahaha talsik ang laway ko sa katatawa dine.

  16. #19846
    Member IceBen's Avatar
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    Re: Bigay and Hiram Lines

    aba may movie na pala na produce si sir rw.....magugustuhan pumunta dito sigurado ni HB

  17. #19847
    Senior Member Island Born's Avatar
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    Re: Bigay and Hiram Lines

    Quote Originally Posted by Intrepid View Post
    Whahahahahaha talsik ang laway ko sa katatawa dine.
    Ako din padre Pido Dido, ibang klaseng tumirada itong si Direktor No SalawaL RW

  18. #19848
    Senior Member jungold's Avatar
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    Talking Re: Bigay and Hiram Lines

    Quote Originally Posted by IceBen View Post
    hindi ko na babasahin mga 300 pages back pero aba maganda yata topic dito at marami ako matutunan....mula sa ibat ibang pit gamefowl magazine at may bibliya pa.


    Huli ka Pre IceBen, watz up.....Ganyan na ngayon dito, bawal ang di Babaero dito, kung Hanap mo Ligaya sa Happy SaUna, kung Hanap mo naman ay 500 Pesos sa MoA maraming bading doon.....He,he......;D

  19. #19849
    Senior Member jungold's Avatar
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    Talking Re: Bigay and Hiram Lines

    Quote Originally Posted by Island Born View Post
    Mamumuti talaga ang mga mata ni padre rw at padre jungold sa kakahanap sakin sa MOA


    Sa MoA ako mag-park ng sasakyan, kapag di kita nakita doon, alam ko na, naka-pick up ka ng Bakla sa Telecenter,,,,Tama ba pre Dv, Pre Rw, Pre Intrepid , Pre r$y........

  20. #19850
    Senior Member Intrepid's Avatar
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    Re: Bigay and Hiram Lines

    Quote Originally Posted by Intrepid View Post



    Ito ang maga intay sau sa HAPPY SAUNA sa sabado.hehe
    Quote Originally Posted by red warrior View Post


    Nood na tayo sa Sabado...
    Bro rw,tingnan mo tinatanong ni Pastor si pre jungold kung pwede daw ba na sya muna ang mauna.At baka daw mainip at panay na ang txt.hehe

  21. #19851
    Senior Member jungold's Avatar
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    Talking Re: Bigay and Hiram Lines

    Quote Originally Posted by Island Born View Post
    Nakapag Bro-Sis na ako padre jungold , sa 4 male chicks (full brother) isa lang ang medyo baliktad ang tubo ng balahibo sa likod. ang tatlo ay normal. Yung isang pair naman ng Bro-Sis ay isa lang ang anak nila (normal baby pullet).

    Yung isang baliktad balahibo pinamigay ko sa neighbor, doing fine.
    Yung isang male chick ay nabili ng 500p last month.
    Yung isang male chick gift ko kay Padre rw later bigay ko.
    Yung isa lang ang matitira sakin para maipares sa pinsan nya (ito yung normal baby pullet na anak din ng Bro-Sis). Lahat yan alakdan Kelso. Going 2 months old na sila this month.


    Now, let us touch on cross-breeding. Crossbreeding is the mating of gamefowls not related by blood to each other? This is usually done to combine the good quail-ties of the broodfowls. There are three methods of breeding gamefowls by crossbreeding. They are discussed below.
    1. STRAIGHT-CROSS--In this method, two strains are mated. One good example is the power-speed blend of Ruble Hatch and Black Traveler. Here, the male offspring will take after the hens. 2. THREE WAY-CROSS--If you have a family of Kelso that cuts better in open sparring and needs more wallop, get an even cross like a Hatch-Claret and breed it over the Kelso hens. The progeny out of this mating will retain the desired characteristics of the Kelso, cutting ability of the Claret, and the power of the Hatch.
    3. FOUR WAY CROSS--This is the mating of two straight crosses like the mating of Hatch-Claret to a Kelso-Roundhead cross.
    In cross-breeding, remember the following adage. "Cross breeds or hybrids almost invariably pass along their worst characteristics. The good qualities often are the result of the cross and cannot be passed along." This was taken from the book "Modern Breeding of Game Fowl" by Mr. Frank "Narragansett" Shy.
    Another method of breeding worth mentioning in this piece is the "Narragansett Method" made popular by Frank Shy, another "Master Breeder" famous for the strain of gamefowls called the Narragansetts. This method advocates the transmission of the blood of a prepotent individual to the progeny in "small doses" by repeated injections of the blood from several mates rather than intensive inbreeding......

  22. #19852
    Senior Member jungold's Avatar
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    Talking Re: Bigay and Hiram Lines

    Quote Originally Posted by Intrepid View Post
    Bro rw,tingnan mo tinatanong ni Pastor si pre jungold kung pwede daw ba na sya muna ang mauna.At baka daw mainip at panay na ang txt.hehe

    Pre Intrepid payag akong siya na mauna at Rebore sa akin yan pagkatapos niya, he,he......;D:d

  23. #19853
    Senior Member Intrepid's Avatar
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    Re: Bigay and Hiram Lines

    Quote Originally Posted by jungold View Post
    Pre Intrepid payag akong siya na mauna at Rebore sa akin yan pagkatapos niya, he,he......;D:d
    Nyahahahhahahhahhaha ............ Malamang pre hehehe

  24. #19854
    Senior Member Island Born's Avatar
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    Re: Bigay and Hiram Lines

    Quote Originally Posted by jungold View Post
    Now, let us touch on cross-breeding. Crossbreeding is the mating of gamefowls not related by blood to each other? This is usually done to combine the good quail-ties of the broodfowls. There are three methods of breeding gamefowls by crossbreeding. They are discussed below.
    1. STRAIGHT-CROSS--In this method, two strains are mated. One good example is the power-speed blend of Ruble Hatch and Black Traveler. Here, the male offspring will take after the hens. 2. THREE WAY-CROSS--If you have a family of Kelso that cuts better in open sparring and needs more wallop, get an even cross like a Hatch-Claret and breed it over the Kelso hens. The progeny out of this mating will retain the desired characteristics of the Kelso, cutting ability of the Claret, and the power of the Hatch.
    3. FOUR WAY CROSS--This is the mating of two straight crosses like the mating of Hatch-Claret to a Kelso-Roundhead cross.
    In cross-breeding, remember the following adage. "Cross breeds or hybrids almost invariably pass along their worst characteristics. The good qualities often are the result of the cross and cannot be passed along." This was taken from the book "Modern Breeding of Game Fowl" by Mr. Frank "Narragansett" Shy.
    Another method of breeding worth mentioning in this piece is the "Narragansett Method" made popular by Frank Shy, another "Master Breeder" famous for the strain of gamefowls called the Narragansetts. This method advocates the transmission of the blood of a prepotent individual to the progeny in "small doses" by repeated injections of the blood from several mates rather than intensive inbreeding......
    Meron na akong 2 Way and 3 Way, hanggang dun muna. Yung mga Kelso inbreeding (bro-sis products) ay for Breeding purpose only. Gumawa lang ako ng another strain/family of Kelso.
    Last edited by Island Born; July 18th, 2013 at 05:46 PM.

  25. #19855
    Senior Member red warrior's Avatar
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    Re: Bigay and Hiram Lines

    Quote Originally Posted by Intrepid View Post
    Bro rw,tingnan mo tinatanong ni Pastor si pre jungold kung pwede daw ba na sya muna ang mauna.At baka daw mainip at panay na ang txt.hehe

    Wag nang mainip si Father IB, mauna na sya, ibigay ko na ang direksyon at mapa. Pwede sya dumiretso sa Kabeeet :

    Happy Sa Una

    Last edited by red warrior; July 18th, 2013 at 05:46 PM.

  26. #19856
    Member IceBen's Avatar
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    Re: Bigay and Hiram Lines

    Pre Jun...sama ako jan sa happy hahahaha...wag lang sa "luha sa huli, kasi lalaki" hahaha

  27. #19857
    Senior Member Intrepid's Avatar
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    Re: Bigay and Hiram Lines

    Bro rw ano yung me naka lagay na ''Kabeet

  28. #19858
    Senior Member red warrior's Avatar
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    Re: Bigay and Hiram Lines

    Quote Originally Posted by Intrepid View Post
    Bro rw ano yung me naka lagay na ''Kabeet
    Mga mamasang ang maghihintay kay Father IB dun...

  29. #19859
    Senior Member Intrepid's Avatar
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    Re: Bigay and Hiram Lines

    Malamang alam ni pastor yan kunyari pa yan eh simpleng manyakis din yan eehh!
    Kaya nga yan naging ''MANINIYOT''(photographer)hehe

  30. #19860
    Senior Member jungold's Avatar
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    Talking Re: Bigay and Hiram Lines

    Quote Originally Posted by Island Born View Post
    Ayon kay Plaza (Bakbakan Winner), hindi puede yung puro lang Gameness sa larong Slasher/LK. Kailangan ng UTAK at CUTTING. Sa SK, ok lang na puro GAMENESS Nasa larong LK tayo pre jungold Yung mga kano ay SK ang laro

    Some backyard breeders blend native Orientals with American gamefowls? If you are in this class of cocker-breeders, better learn the IVY Method of grading Orientals· Ivy favors the 1/4 Oriental either in a two or three-way cross. In this method, you only need a single Oriental cock to produce 1/2 grade hens. Remember that Oriental grade breeding is a trial and error method.
    Let us explain how this is done. In the two-way cross, first you mate the native cock with, let us say, a Davis Mims. This mating will produce offspring with 1/2 native Oriental blood. We select the best 1/2 native Oriental hens and mate them again with a Davis Mims cock. This two-way cross will produce offspring that are 1/4 native Oriental grades.
    If you want a three-way cross, you mate select 1/2 native Oriental hens (cross between a native cock with Davis Mims hen) with a Davis Mims-Hatch Gull cross· The progeny out of this mating will be ¼ Hatch Gull, ½ Davis Mims, and 1/4 Oriental (native cock). The author favors 1/8 Oriental grades though.
    The key to success in the production of native Oriental grades is selection and brutal culling. Select flicking type native Oriental cocks that could cut and always top the opponent every fly. These ring generals dictate the game but have little power so infuse at least % power blood (HATCH). The native cock you should breed must exhibit nothing but gameness when fought at two years old. The author have witnessed many native Orientals run when fought in slashers? They do not last the full route. However, there are a few that last the whole ten minutes and can stand deep cutting when fought at two years of age and above. These native Oriental types are worth breeding? They need very little work when conditioned to fight and are very resistant to diseases.

    Yan Fafah I.b at na explained ko ang "Game & Gameness", Kung Bakit sinasabi ko na kailangan may Gameness para manalo ang Manok sa kahit na anong Laban sa Cock Fight, Kesa Long Knife- Short Knife - Naked Heel,,,,, So ikaw naman ang mag-paliwanag at Tumayo sa comment mo na ;Ayon kay Plaza (Bakbakan Winner), hindi puede yung puro lang Gameness sa larong Slasher/LK. Kailangan ng UTAK at CUTTING. Sa SK, ok lang na puro GAMENESS Nasa larong LK tayo pre jungold Yung mga kano ay SK ang laro

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