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Thread: controversial topic: knife length in philippine circuits

  
  1. #31
    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: controversial topic: knife length in philippine circuits

    Quote Originally Posted by jailbird View Post
    Just a thought. If anyone will put up 5 stags and will use 6 inch knives (minimum) on all of them and fight an extra long vs. old fashioned length main - I would love to put up a matching 5 stags that will just use 3.5 inch knives (maximum). that will give him a 2.5 inch advantage.

    We just match the stags by weight - blindly and give it a go. maybe follow NFGB weights of min 1.7 and max 2.2 with plus minus 35 grams to match. just post the weights of the birds and I will find them a match.

    This can be a no cash experiment or anything $1,000 or less - just to cover the cost of the roosters will be ok. We can do it this dec 9 at the next TariTari session. on second thought, just to make this come true, i would offer a logro :-) the 6+ inch knives $800 will win $1,000 if they score more than the 3.5 inchers :-) and just to sweeten it further, I will donate a trophy commemorating this historic event :-)

    This should be fun.

    We can video and post here in this thread!!! I can provide SloMo video so we all see why and how the wins or losses happened!

    I really want to make this happen, so im raising the odds ;-) the 6 inch knives $600 will win $1000 if they get more points than the 3.5 inchers.

    And win or lose the 6 inchers get the trophy - for bravery !
    Last edited by jailbird; November 21st, 2012 at 06:33 PM.

  2. #32
    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: controversial topic: knife length in philippine circuits

    Quote Originally Posted by jailbird View Post
    I really want to make this happen, so im raising the odds ;-) the 6 inch knives $600 will win $1000 if they get more points than the 3.5 inchers.

    And win or lose the 6 inchers get the trophy - for bravery !
    Hey December 9 is fast approaching and still no takers.

    maybe we can sweeten the Ante and raise the odds to $500:1000 and lower the rooster count to 3? so first to get 2 wins gets the money???

    or maybe just make the prize money smaller? $250:$500 this is P10,000 wins P20,000?

    Just for fun!!
    Last edited by jailbird; November 28th, 2012 at 12:00 PM.

  3. #33
    Senior Member OER farms's Avatar
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    Re: controversial topic: knife length in philippine circuits

    i have never been a subscriber to the "super" long knife craze that has been in effect the last few years, even as it has reached hawaii.

    in my opinion, i dont ever see the need for a rooster to have a 4 inch or longer knife on him. many wil agree, and many will disagree. my personal preference is the traditional method of measuring the blade to the rooster's shank height.

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  5. #34
    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: controversial topic: knife length in philippine circuits

    Quote Originally Posted by OER farms View Post
    i have never been a subscriber to the "super" long knife craze that has been in effect the last few years, even as it has reached hawaii.

    in my opinion, i dont ever see the need for a rooster to have a 4 inch or longer knife on him. many wil agree, and many will disagree. my personal preference is the traditional method of measuring the blade to the rooster's shank height.
    Yup sir, actually most of us in the sessions agree. so far the median is 3.5-4 and anything longer is considered a negative.

    So i guess this issue can be put to rest. Let those who wish to use super long knives do as they please. it serves no advantage. most likely they are a disadvantage.

    have fun and have a merry Christmas everyone. And all those in Metro Manila or close by, please come to the Tari-Tari session on Dec 9, at 9 am . Shell gas Station Sucat Road, beside Loyola Memorial Park.

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    Member wild willy's Avatar
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    Re: controversial topic: knife length in philippine circuits

    I like the old way of measuring the knife to the leg. After watching fights on dvd and online i think the longer knives are a disadvantage. I have never seen them used in person though. My own experience with longknife fighting was with the old 3 to 3 1/2 inch blades

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    Re: controversial topic: knife length in philippine circuits

    Quote Originally Posted by OER farms View Post
    i have never been a subscriber to the "super" long knife craze that has been in effect the last few years, even as it has reached hawaii.

    in my opinion, i dont ever see the need for a rooster to have a 4 inch or longer knife on him. many wil agree, and many will disagree. my personal preference is the traditional method of measuring the blade to the rooster's shank height.
    Amen the real way to measure

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    Re: controversial topic: knife length in philippine circuits

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPurdy View Post
    I agree - the pits should set a maximum limit. In Mexico and central America there is a maximum size limit on the length of short knives. It's a rule that promotes fairness and everyone agrees. As Guamasil said, the outcome should be determined the roosters involved.

    Let us put it this way... Why is there a regulation length to Short Knife? Because if there is none, it will no longer be Short Knife. What is my point? If the length of Long Knife will be regulated, the limit should not be how long but rather how short you can go with your long knives, otherwise it won't be long knife anymore... But for me, let the roosters do the talking in the pit. Leave it as is, to each his own. Let those who are comfortable using 6 or even 7-inch blades do their thing and those who prefer to measure the knife to use by the length of the shank do theirs... Let us enjoy this freedom in choosing the knife length we prefer...

    BantonSpur

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  12. #38
    Cyberfriends ncyabut's Avatar
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    Re: controversial topic: knife length in philippine circuits

    Quote Originally Posted by BantonSpur View Post
    Let us put it this way... Why is there a regulation length to Short Knife? Because if there is none, it will no longer be Short Knife. What is my point? If the length of Long Knife will be regulated, the limit should not be how long but rather how short you can go with your long knives, otherwise it won't be long knife anymore... But for me, let the roosters do the talking in the pit. Leave it as is, to each his own. Let those who are comfortable using 6 or even 7-inch blades do their thing and those who prefer to measure the knife to use by the length of the shank do theirs... Let us enjoy this freedom in choosing the knife length we prefer...

    BantonSpur
    I absolutely agree with you sir. Here in the Philippines, although it has now become a norm to use knives that are extra long, it will still not guarantee a win. The skill of the rooster and of course the gaffer will have to collaborate pretty well in order to get a win. so for me this is not actually a controversial topic. Heck, you can put on an 8 inch knife and still get licked in one fly. In this sport, the enjoyment is derived from doing something to our liking and preference. And borrowing a line from my alma mater's school song.... win or lose its the sport we choose! Cheers!

    Ad Meliora!

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    Re: controversial topic: knife length in philippine circuits

    Quote Originally Posted by wild willy View Post
    I like the old way of measuring the knife to the leg. After watching fights on dvd and online i think the longer knives are a disadvantage. I have never seen them used in person though. My own experience with longknife fighting was with the old 3 to 3 1/2 inch blades
    Quote Originally Posted by wild willy View Post
    I like the old way of measuring the knife to the leg. After watching fights on dvd and online i think the longer knives are a disadvantage. I have never seen them used in person though. My own experience with longknife fighting was with the old 3 to 3 1/2 inch blades
    ***The old way of measuring the knife to the leg is still being practised in the P.I. but yes, some gaffers wanted to go way beyond the elbow or knee. And this is the very reason (I think ) as to why the increase in lenght of knives now a days. With the mentality that higher station thus with longer knives has an advantage in reach, Filipino breeders bred towards this goal and so P. I. Gamefowls are taller now a days. A Filipino breeder in the P.I. Would love to breed "turkeys" that can fight and swing their legs, while the American breeder/cockfighter does not think that height is might for as long as the weights are similar. Two differing opinions I've gathered. Another reason as to why medium stationed birds are much more preferred in the US of A is the possibility of being in a Mexican show, or the 4H Club "needle" shows wherein higher station is not really necessary.
    Anyway, just trying to point out some factors as to why(maybe) Americans differ with Pinoys about the lenght of LK used.

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  16. #40
    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: controversial topic: knife length in philippine circuits

    Quote Originally Posted by ncyabut View Post
    I absolutely agree with you sir. Here in the Philippines, although it has now become a norm to use knives that are extra long, it will still not guarantee a win. The skill of the rooster and of course the gaffer will have to collaborate pretty well in order to get a win. so for me this is not actually a controversial topic. Heck, you can put on an 8 inch knife and still get licked in one fly. In this sport, the enjoyment is derived from doing something to our liking and preference. And borrowing a line from my alma mater's school song.... win or lose its the sport we choose! Cheers!

    Ad Meliora!
    I wonder when we could have an intercollegiate 5 cock derby ;-)

  17. #41
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    Re: controversial topic: knife length in philippine circuits

    I prefer using the regular length slim banana shaped slashers that my bird's can handle according to the length of their shank. I don't like blades that go past the elbow.

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    Talking Re: controversial topic: knife length in philippine circuits

    Quote Originally Posted by jailbird View Post
    I really want to make this happen, so im raising the odds ;-) the 6 inch knives $600 will win $1000 if they get more points than the 3.5 inchers.

    And win or lose the 6 inchers get the trophy - for bravery !
    I can give a better odds of $1 will win $1000 like roundhead said, if he could tie a sword on his chicken & I'd tie 1 inch knife on mine! Ha!Ha!Ha! joke!joke!joke!

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    Re: controversial topic: knife length in philippine circuits

    Kasama nman sa sabong yan. Mahaba o maikli ang tari na gamit, nasasayo yan. native na manok o imported ang ilaban mo nsasayo rin yan. Kung lahat na lang pare pareho, mukhang mababawasan ang thrill sa sabong. may advantages ang mahaba meron din nmang advantages ang maiksi.

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    Re: controversial topic: knife length in philippine circuits

    My opinion, justs like on any high level sporting events ,considering both athletes are on their highest level of skills,,,a tiny advantage makes a big difference,,,,,I've witnessed it a gaffer that has a clear understanding on how to set those very long knives is always at an advantage,,,,it boils down to gaffing skills,,,but 3 1/2 maximum lenghth standard for a regulation,,I'll agree,,,,

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  23. #45
    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
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    Re: controversial topic: knife length in philippine circuits

    We should not regulate. Every inch or cm our opponent adds is welcome. Knife selection, installation and maintenance is a skill inherent to the sport. Anyone who does not know what is best for his bird is throwing away his money by lowering his chances of winning. It is n the long run after many fights before you can affirm the right combination.

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    Senior Member nilodeleon's Avatar
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    Re: controversial topic: knife length in philippine circuits

    Quote Originally Posted by jailbird View Post
    We should not regulate. Every inch or cm our opponent adds is welcome. Knife selection, installation and maintenance is a skill inherent to the sport. Anyone who does not know what is best for his bird is throwing away his money by lowering his chances of winning. It is n the long run after many fights before you can affirm the right combination.
    there were some changes in sabong that did good in terms of fairness for everyone's benefit but this one should be left alone. and those talking about comparing the Philippine LK to Mexican SK in terms of length restrictions? they're 2 different worlds, it's apples and oranges.
    good luck to all!
    kid

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  27. #47
    Senior Member Stripper's Avatar
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    Re: controversial topic: knife length in philippine circuits

    It's like other sport, tennis, baseball, hockey, etc...chose the gear that suits you! Yap yap regulation is not the answer, as always there's room for improvements, that's what makes SABONG exciting you compete bringing with you your innovations. If you loss back to the drawing board, if you win look for more improvement. Go Big Boys....set the bar so high so you will be unbeatable....till another have a better one!

  28. #48
    Senior Member jemm65's Avatar
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    Re: controversial topic: knife length in philippine circuits

    Quote Originally Posted by roundhead View Post
    first off, i am what you can describe as a typical urban filipino joe average cocker and for you stateside folks who does not know what that means is that since cockfighting is legal where we live, we do not need to have a farm just to have chickens, just a small backyard and coops with a couple of fly pens and cool neighbors that are compliant with roosters crowing. i am the type of cocker who believes that one should know most of the aspects, not all because i dont breed and have no intention because we have a surplus supply of cocks. one aspect is knife tying, i mean you can literally go to any pit and gaffers are all over the place for a small fee. well since that world slashers event where the hawaiians trashed a good number of locals, 4 to 5 inch average length knives has become the norm that is openly not discussed and of course most cocks now have that long legs and shank combination that can of course accomodate the longer length, it just happens that an acquaintance of mine has to go to the USA just to obtain dead game blood(!). so i happen to open up this seemingly can of worms with an old time gaffer who of course in tune with the trend. i personally like or use 3 up to 3 3/4 knives and being caught up in one instance forgot to forge an agreement with an opponent that used a much longer knife, i lost and everybody who bet on my cock politely and nicely mentioned about my shorter knife, my cock incidentally also permanently disabled my opponent, but being a conciencious cocker i felt very bad about the bettors who put their trust in me, basically i felt that i did not look out for their interest which makes me end up feeling like a jerk! now before ye cast your stones on me, knife length in the pits are rarely and never discussed, it is a tiny wink wink loophole that anyone can exploit even in the big leagues. so i asked my old timer gaffer friend and the enigmatic response was "good luck in matching" because it is not discussed and the "correct" length will be attached says he. "correct length"?!?! is that reasonable explanation enough? okay what if the "correct" length that can be accomodated on my cock is 6inches and my opponent 4 1/2? that is a 1 1/2 inch advantage wont you agree? geez that is a mexicAn knife fight versus a sharpened spur(postiza), the one with the knife will get my bet you can be sure with that. i believe this religion or tradition should be kept clean and free from this "loop hole". what say you? if you have read this and kept it to yourself then you have in your heart a space for taking advantage of your fellow man. sooner or later maybe some folks will start breeding turkeys with their gamefowl and everybody will end up tying samurais! samurai chicken?

    point is; knife length should be discussed and agreed upon any discrepancy should increase the odds on one side or even maybe used as a negotiating tool and should be announced when bets are taken in, to at least protect the interests of the bettors, the bettors wheter you are a betting man or not are just as important and integral to the sport. would you go to a knife fight with a bowie versus someone with a broad sword?
    iíve never been a fan of very long knives so when i show i use what i believe is the correct length for my chickens. i never care how long or short my opponents use. on the side of the betting public, they can see with their own eyes what lengths are used and so bet accordingly and with what odds to offer. we donít need to regulate it. there is a disadvantage and an advantage either way. jmo

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    Re: controversial topic: knife length in philippine circuits

    Quote Originally Posted by roundhead View Post
    first off, i am what you can describe as a typical urban filipino joe average cocker and for you stateside folks who does not know what that means is that since cockfighting is legal where we live, we do not need to have a farm just to have chickens, just a small backyard and coops with a couple of fly pens and cool neighbors that are compliant with roosters crowing. i am the type of cocker who believes that one should know most of the aspects, not all because i dont breed and have no intention because we have a surplus supply of cocks. one aspect is knife tying, i mean you can literally go to any pit and gaffers are all over the place for a small fee. well since that world slashers event where the hawaiians trashed a good number of locals, 4 to 5 inch average length knives has become the norm that is openly not discussed and of course most cocks now have that long legs and shank combination that can of course accomodate the longer length, it just happens that an acquaintance of mine has to go to the USA just to obtain dead game blood(!). so i happen to open up this seemingly can of worms with an old time gaffer who of course in tune with the trend. i personally like or use 3 up to 3 3/4 knives and being caught up in one instance forgot to forge an agreement with an opponent that used a much longer knife, i lost and everybody who bet on my cock politely and nicely mentioned about my shorter knife, my cock incidentally also permanently disabled my opponent, but being a conciencious cocker i felt very bad about the bettors who put their trust in me, basically i felt that i did not look out for their interest which makes me end up feeling like a jerk! now before ye cast your stones on me, knife length in the pits are rarely and never discussed, it is a tiny wink wink loophole that anyone can exploit even in the big leagues. so i asked my old timer gaffer friend and the enigmatic response was "good luck in matching" because it is not discussed and the "correct" length will be attached says he. "correct length"?!?! is that reasonable explanation enough? okay what if the "correct" length that can be accomodated on my cock is 6inches and my opponent 4 1/2? that is a 1 1/2 inch advantage wont you agree? geez that is a mexicAn knife fight versus a sharpened spur(postiza), the one with the knife will get my bet you can be sure with that. i believe this religion or tradition should be kept clean and free from this "loop hole". what say you? if you have read this and kept it to yourself then you have in your heart a space for taking advantage of your fellow man. sooner or later maybe some folks will start breeding turkeys with their gamefowl and everybody will end up tying samurais! samurai chicken?

    point is; knife length should be discussed and agreed upon any discrepancy should increase the odds on one side or even maybe used as a negotiating tool and should be announced when bets are taken in, to at least protect the interests of the bettors, the bettors wheter you are a betting man or not are just as important and integral to the sport. would you go to a knife fight with a bowie versus someone with a broad sword?
    I read this. I learned a few things. It would be up to you native s to lead the way.
    Here (when legal) the house provides the gaff. It is either a 1.5 inch regulation gaff derby. Or a 1.25 inch regulation gaff derby.
    I am surprised that in a country. Where cockfighting is so big. There is not set weapons

  31. #50
    Senior Member nilodeleon's Avatar
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    Re: controversial topic: knife length in philippine circuits

    Quote Originally Posted by BostonMurphy View Post
    I read this. I learned a few things. It would be up to you native s to lead the way.
    Here (when legal) the house provides the gaff. It is either a 1.5 inch regulation gaff derby. Or a 1.25 inch regulation gaff derby.
    I am surprised that in a country. Where cockfighting is so big. There is not set weapons
    BostonMurphy,
    i assumed that when you said 1.5 inch & 1.25 inch you're talking about the Mexican short knives. it seems to me that when they said short knives then there's a connotation that there's a certain limit in length for it to be considered as "short". and when it comes to Philippine long knives, there's a point that it becomes a disadvantage if they make it too long for the bird not to connect on a certain situation. and the understanding that the term long means, i think (correct me if i'm wrong) was just or maybe to differentiate in contrast to the Mexican short knife.
    and maybe there will come a time but i doubt it that they'll start to regulate the length of the knives used in Philippine long knife fights.
    just an example, you wouldn't want to see a mexican short knife fighting a philippine long knife thus the rule for the short knives fight were regulated in terms of length.
    hope this helps,
    kid

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    Re: controversial topic: knife length in philippine circuits

    As a gaffer, I never consider that the size of knife is one factor for winning. Selection of gaffer if I may should be considered. I had fought many times with long knives. Mostly they have bigger fowls and they can tie bigger size of knives. It seems to me that my short knife hits with severe damage even mostly the other leg maybe broken.

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    Re: controversial topic: knife length in philippine circuits

    As a matter of fair play, the party who intends to use a long knife should inform the other party; it is up to the other party to use long or the regular knife as his preferred knife after being informed. Yes, both parties should use what they prefer!

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    Re: controversial topic: knife length in philippine circuits

    My thoughts on this subject is join a club where all the weapons are the same or put what you think is the most deadly knife you can find and put on your cock. Pretty simple. 3 1/2" is a bad deadly
    knife.

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    Re: controversial topic: knife length in philippine circuits

    My brothers in law are pinoys and try to educate me about saving. They measure the leg to the knife like quite a few others on this thread have mentioned. However they've led me to believe that the individual fighting style of the cock involved comes into play as well.
    They say that with a ground fighter, marginally shorter is better and with a high breaking bird that likes to hit in the air marginally longer is better and I'm sure that the gaffer is important as well as they always use the same guy or his father.
    Please feel free to educate me as I read this forum to try to learn more about the sport.
    Thanks Shaun.

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