Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: Breeding methods

  
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    kentucky
    Posts
    138
    Post Thanks / Like

    Question Breeding methods

    I know this is a touchy subject but here it goes.

    BASIC CROSSING

    pure hatch x pure kelso = 1/2 hatch 1/2 kelso

    pure hatch x 1/2 hatch 1/2 kelso= 3/4 hatch 1/4 kelso

    pure hatch x 3/4 hatch 1/4 kelso= 7/8 hatch 1/8 kelso

    5/8 & 3/8

    3/4 hatch 1/4 kelso x 1/2 hatch 1/2 kelso = 5/8 hatch 3/8 kelso

    3/4 hatch 1/4 kelso x pure kelso= 5/8 kelso 3/8 hatch

    Theological BREEDing

    I have found that a few theorys on breeding has produced finer quality battle fowl. i like to breed grandsons to grandmas to get my 5/8 and 3/8 in theory it keeps the gene pool close.

    Hatch cock A x Kelso hen B = 1/2 hatch 1/2 kelso (hen B's son/daughter)

    Hatch cock A x 1/2 hatch 1/2 kelso= 3/4 hatch 1/4 kelso ( hen B's grand children)

    3/4 hatch 1/4 kelso x kelso hen B = 5/8 kelso 3/8 hatch

    it is important in this breeding you breed the oringenal hen "B" to her grand son............................................... .................................................

    YOUR BREEDING IDEAS

    Now what do you guys do, lets get together and teach each and everyone or just somebody and hopefully me something...

    THANK YOU,
    kyfinest y.f.i.s.
    Last edited by kyfinest; February 7th, 2013 at 06:52 AM.

  2. Thanks Yunke8888, roduls_82 thanked for this post
    Likes Yunke8888, roduls_82 liked this post
  3. #2
    Member Bama Warrior's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    186
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Breeding methods

    is it possible to make a 9/16 7/16 cross

  4. #3
    Senior Member jailbird's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Paranaque
    Posts
    5,169
    Post Thanks / Like
    This is not to discourage or contradict anyone but no matter what numbers are used it seems to me that a cross is a cross. And the progeny will always exhibit traits from both or all branches of the families with dominance being the biggest influence.

    Even if it's 1/16 this and 15/16 that if the original traits of both parties were used in line breeding. Then the progeny will still be as mixed up as the first generation half and half. Maybe it gets more and more difficult to get the opposite traits but it would still be there.

    To "purify" more or less, you will need to chose the male offspring that looks most like his mom in phenotype. Mate him back and again choose the male that most resembles the mom again. Eventually all the offspring will all be pure to the traits of the mom.

    The opposite can also be done with the females to the dad.

    When none of the other traits come out again then you have a pure line ;-)

    Rejoinder: this is true only if the parent you are purifying to is pure for those traits in the first place. If they were crossed for those traits then the offspring will never be pure.

    You will have better chances by mating brother sister with exactly the same traits you like. And carry on that way untill no other trait comes up outside of your specified phenotype.

    But thats just my "theory" extrapolated from my limited breeding experience.
    Last edited by jailbird; February 8th, 2013 at 09:16 PM.

  5. Likes Saccridge, Reaper, Yunke8888 liked this post
  6. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    kentucky
    Posts
    138
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Breeding methods

    Quote Originally Posted by jailbird View Post
    This is not to discourage or contradict anyone but no matter what numbers are used it seems to me that a cross is a cross. And the progeny will always exhibit traits from both or all branches of the families with dominance being the biggest influence.

    Even if it's 1/16 this and 15/16 that if the original traits of both parties were used in line breeding. Then the progeny will still be as mixed up as the first generation half and half. Maybe it gets more and more difficult to get the opposite traits but it would still be there.

    To "purify" more or less, you will need to chose the male offspring that looks most like his mom in phenotype. Mate him back and again choose the male that most resembles the mom again. Eventually all the offspring will all be pure to the traits of the mom.

    The opposite can also be done with the females to the dad.

    When none of the other traits come out again then you have a pure line ;-)

    Rejoinder: this is true only if the parent you are purifying to is pure for those traits in the first place. If they were crossed for those traits then the offspring will never be pure.

    You will have better chances by mating brother sister with exactly the same traits you like. And carry on that way untill no other trait comes up outside of your specified phenotype.

    But thats just my "theory" extrapolated from my limited breeding experience.
    "And the progeny will always exhibit traits from both or all branches of the families with dominance being the biggest influence."

    I agree, the crosses will always exhibit traits from both lines, but in my breeding experience when you breed 3/4 and 1/4 crosses for example Hatch Clarets, at 3/4 hatch they hit harder but at 3/4 claret they cutt better, in the hatch/claret case 1/2 and 1/2 was the best cross.

    but in the case of hatch/roundheads the 1/2 and 1/2 were good but the 3/4 hatch 1/4 roundhead could eat the 1/2 and 1/2's for breakfeast

    I think it all goes back to it depends on the line

  7. Thanks Yunke8888, roduls_82 thanked for this post
    Likes dungeon, Yunke8888, roduls_82 liked this post
  8. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    kentucky
    Posts
    138
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Breeding methods

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Warrior View Post
    is it possible to make a 9/16 7/16 cross
    Yes,

    7/8 Hatch 1/8 Kelso x Pure Kelso = 7/16 hatch 9/16 kelso

  9. Thanks Yunke8888 thanked for this post
  10. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    253
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Breeding methods

    breed to what makes you happy. if you like 1/2 & 1/2. then just breed to that. breeding should be fun. don't make it a chore.

  11. Likes Yunke8888 liked this post
  12. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    South Texas
    Posts
    940
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Breeding methods

    Quote Originally Posted by chef11 View Post
    breed to what makes you happy. if you like 1/2 & 1/2. then just breed to that. breeding should be fun. don't make it a chore.
    Yeap,

    If you have a mating that is producing excellent performing 1/2/1/2s, select your top 2 performers that have good conformation and no defects to breed. Select their full sisters with vigorous health, good conformation and no defects. Single Mate @ full brother to 1/2 of his full sisters and the next season switch the cocks. Select, test & cull ruthlessly and continue repeating breeding B/S for several generations, as long as, you keep selecting & breeding vigorous, healthy top performing individuals and culling everything else. You need big #s of mattings & big #s of offspring/ mating, in order to select, test & cull ruthlessly.

    All the Hatch strains (Blue Face, Mc Lean, YLH, etc. ) Kelso strains ( CD, Cardinal Club, etc. ) and Joe Goode strains ( WL & YL greys, as well as the GL greys aka Clements ) started as crosses that somebody inbred & line bred to " purify" most of this strains are still performing good 25, 40, and 50 years after their originators passed away.


    Eventually it becomes your own strain.

    yunke8888
    Last edited by Yunke8888; February 17th, 2015 at 07:18 AM.

  13. Likes flyer34, Camarines, yard bird, masao liked this post
  14. #8
    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    El Gulfo
    Posts
    2,307
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Breeding methods

    Prepotent families change the fraction in favor of desired performance characteristics in your crosses. Less theoretical math more consistency of performance.

  15. Likes Camarines, Yunke8888, Reaper liked this post
  16. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    South Texas
    Posts
    940
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Breeding methods

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    Prepotent families change the fraction in favor of desired performance characteristics in your crosses. Less theoretical math more consistency of performance.
    IMHO: Prepotency is the most valuable trait, that any breeder should seek in his/her brood-fowl. The ability to consistently transmit a set of desirable traits and characteristics, is much more valuable than any individual trait, characteristic, Name, breeding method or degree of purity.

    yunke8888
    Last edited by Yunke8888; March 20th, 2015 at 12:17 PM.

  17. Likes Camarines, yard bird liked this post
  18. #10
    Member crawbound's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    140
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Breeding methods

    Good posts by Yunke8888 and Mongoose...To others I would caution that we not forget thatperformance characteristics are not evenly distributed to all offspring and therefore we should not think of a 3/4 this or 5/8 that as possessing that fractional amount of parent characteristics. That is, each offspring is not endowed with 50% fighting style of daddy or 50% of momma, although it could be, but not likely. Referring to a cross as a 1/2 this 1/2 that or 3/4 and 1/4 are just convenient references for us humans. Actually, an offspring of a 1/2 and 1/2 mating can receive 90%or more performance characteristics from either male or female side and this amount of performance characteristic will vary among all offspring, i.e., all brothers and sisters are not created equally. In other words all performance characteristics are not distributed equally among all offspring. If the 50/50 statement in the quote were true all stags would fight identically and be able to cut as well or as bad as one another, and all offspring would have the same degree of appearance and gameness.

  19. Thanks Yunke8888 thanked for this post
    Likes Yunke8888, Mossy Dell liked this post
  20. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    107
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Breeding methods

    Quote Originally Posted by crawbound View Post
    Good posts by Yunke8888 and Mongoose...To others I would caution that we not forget thatperformance characteristics are not evenly distributed to all offspring and therefore we should not think of a 3/4 this or 5/8 that as possessing that fractional amount of parent characteristics. That is, each offspring is not endowed with 50% fighting style of daddy or 50% of momma, although it could be, but not likely. Referring to a cross as a 1/2 this 1/2 that or 3/4 and 1/4 are just convenient references for us humans. Actually, an offspring of a 1/2 and 1/2 mating can receive 90%or more performance characteristics from either male or female side and this amount of performance characteristic will vary among all offspring, i.e., all brothers and sisters are not created equally. In other words all performance characteristics are not distributed equally among all offspring. If the 50/50 statement in the quote were true all stags would fight identically and be able to cut as well or as bad as one another, and all offspring would have the same degree of appearance and gameness.
    this is correct. when you cross 2 families that are a set family they don't always come 50/50, because genes only re-combine to form the offspring no such thing as percentages when it comes to genes. we all use percentages , like myself to explain our fowl. like i have said before it is like picking equally number of two different colored marbles out of a bucket , which would represent the two breeds. you think you would get equally amount of colors each time, but we know that is not always the case. when we look at each of the two colors we see that their is some difference in each of the two colors, which of course represents the blood variation in each of the two set breeds. this will make the offspring somewhat different as well , at times.

  21. Thanks Yunke8888 thanked for this post
    Likes Yunke8888 liked this post
  22. #12
    Senior Member Caliblue10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    504
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Breeding methods

    Totally agree with Cutcut and crawbound, im working on some pyle blue grades on some oriental blood. And at half and half there were a bunch of differences between color of offspring, now at the 3/4 1/2 mark. There are less differences but nonetheless
    There are still differences I have them coming pyle in color now but I get straight and pea comb stags and just like their comb their body structure is different

  23. Likes Yunke8888 liked this post
  24. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    South Texas
    Posts
    940
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Breeding methods

    Keep it going guys, great example posts from Mongoose, craw-bound & cut-cut.

    No system or method will produce a set result.
    IMHO: The genetic re-combinations of @ offspring out of a particular mating, are more of a 1 arm bandit gamble than a math equation. Wise selection by ruthless testing & culling can improve the odds, but there is no guarantee.

    Got to go, catch you all later

    yunke8888

  25. Thanks ehmong thanked for this post
    Likes crawbound liked this post

Similar Threads

  1. harry parr breeding methods
    By asc_redsngreys in forum Chicken Talk
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: August 16th, 2014, 09:12 AM
  2. Condtitioning and keep methods
    By Kelso13 in forum Chicken Talk
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: January 18th, 2012, 04:59 PM
  3. Best breeding methods
    By jjmccloud2011 in forum Chicken Talk
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: May 11th, 2011, 02:43 AM
  4. conditioning methods now and then
    By nongski in forum Usapang Manok
    Replies: 70
    Last Post: August 26th, 2008, 06:46 AM
  5. breeding/mating methods
    By ligas_paka2006 in forum Chicken Talk
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: December 13th, 2005, 07:33 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •