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Thread: Selecting breeding material.

  
  1. #1
    Member Xmarquez's Avatar
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    Cool Selecting breeding material.

    Ok so i ask my self when i breed a cock to a hen and you get offspring from them how do you know what is the best selecting offspring to throw to the cock or hen and which ones to cull? Do you go by looks or do you breed all offspring and see which one throws the better offspring again. how do we really know if we never breed all of them i know people just go by looks but what if there is an ugly chicken that you think is a cull but its actually the best of all. please post your responses thank you all have a good day.

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    Senior Member Roberts44903's Avatar
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    Re: Selecting breeding material.

    In all honesty if you just go out and watch them. There will be a few that the way they carry themselves and look will rise above the rest. Looks are important because you are the ones taking care of them. If you do not like everything about them then, you might not take as good of care of them as if you really liked everything about them.

    Some families have been bred so long hens come out all built the same and act the same. Those families it is easier to tell culls in my opinion.

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    Member Xmarquez's Avatar
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    Re: Selecting breeding material.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roberts44903 View Post
    In all honesty if you just go out and watch them. There will be a few that the way they carry themselves and look will rise above the rest. Looks are important because you are the ones taking care of them. If you do not like everything about them then, you might not take as good of care of them as if you really liked everything about them.

    Some families have been bred so long hens come out all built the same and act the same. Those families it is easier to tell culls in my opinion.
    What age do you go up too so you can tell which one is a cull and which one is not.

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    Member Xmarquez's Avatar
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    Re: Selecting breeding material.

    In stags you can tell but how can you tell on pullets besides their station,weight,looks,etc.. because ive known people with experience that have bred an ace cock over an ace hen and the offspring is all cull no good at all. i just ask my self this question all the time. so if i were to bred a cull to a cull and their brothers or sister are ace's will the offspring of the culls come out ace's?

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    Senior Member Outlaw greys's Avatar
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    Re: Selecting breeding material.

    Watch them on the yard the ones that are full of themselves and think they own the world is the ones i choose i like brave hens and when there small pullets and they grab a bill hold on your hand is a good sighn as well

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    Senior Member Roberts44903's Avatar
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    Re: Selecting breeding material.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xmarquez View Post
    What age do you go up too so you can tell which one is a cull and which one is not.
    By the time they are 6 to 7 months old you can tell a lot about them. I have picked them as early as 3 months old. Some just look real nice and fight with hens like roosters no bill hold and giving it all they got. Like I said just watch them you will see. Only downfall is my wife will tell me I am spending to much time in the chicken yard.

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    Member Xmarquez's Avatar
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    Re: Selecting breeding material.

    Thank you guys for your help would like to know more about breeding since i didnt have any luck last year. this year im breeding a pair or coal miner mugs and some crosses i have 4 chickens laying right now and would like to get as much info as i can.

  14. #8
    Senior Member Roberts44903's Avatar
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    Re: Selecting breeding material.

    How one person selects fowl might not work for somebody else. It is up to you to make the final decision because you are the one taking care of them. One of the pullets Picked this year to breed out of is 1/2 whitehackle 1/4 blue 1/4 asil. I first noticed her at 3 months old. I seen her try to take on the boss hen on the yard. She would break about 3ft in the air and shuffle like a good rooster would do. She was fast and very agile. She favors the blue side and if she produces well she might be bred back in to our blues. She is about buff color all except for her tail it is like a powder blue in color.

    Remember we are trying to produce something that we can proud of. Especially if you are trying to make your own family.

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    Member GoldenSpangle's Avatar
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    Re: Selecting breeding material.

    Show them!!!! thats how you select best breeders. unless your into 4-h? :/

    (where legal of course)

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    Senior Member Roberts44903's Avatar
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    Re: Selecting breeding material.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenSpangle View Post
    Show them!!!! thats how you select best breeders. unless your into 4-h? :/

    (where legal of course)
    I have seen roosters that was aces in the pit produce culls when bred to good hens. Some of your best brood cocks are never fought.

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  20. #11
    Member GoldenSpangle's Avatar
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    Re: Selecting breeding material.

    Riberts44903-what makes a good/great broodcock, if not one that produces winners? One has to show the F1 and if you get a high % of blue ribbon stags/cocks then you can lable him a good brood cock. the question wasnt how to pick a brood cock, but how to select the best F1 to breed back. Selecting a F1 by looks to breed back, never....Select a brood cock from provens lines by apearance , Yes. but you cant tell if he is a good brood cock until f1s are shown.

    breeding by looks is a good way to ruin a family of fowl, we must test for we are GAMEFOWL breeders not chicken fanciers.


    Golden Spangle

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    Senior Member sucess gamefarm's Avatar
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    Re: Selecting breeding material.

    If you free range an can I would wait till there 8 to 9 months there better to eat more chicken.

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    Senior Member Roberts44903's Avatar
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    Re: Selecting breeding material.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenSpangle View Post
    Riberts44903-what makes a good/great broodcock, if not one that produces winners? One has to show the F1 and if you get a high % of blue ribbon stags/cocks then you can lable him a good brood cock. the question wasnt how to pick a brood cock, but how to select the best F1 to breed back. Selecting a F1 by looks to breed back, never....Select a brood cock from provens lines by apearance , Yes. but you cant tell if he is a good brood cock until f1s are shown.

    breeding by looks is a good way to ruin a family of fowl, we must test for we are GAMEFOWL breeders not chicken fanciers.


    Golden Spangle
    You test his brothers simple as that. Sure there are some pit proven gamecocks out there that produce just as good as he was. Back when it was legal if i had a pure cock win 5 or 6 fights in the long heel then i would put him in the brood pen and line breed back to him or, I could breed him to his momma. I will use this as an example back when it was legal I had a pure blue that won 5 fights and I had his brother up for several shows and never got to show him. I used both in the brood pen then unfought rooster produced better stags with more ability. I tried swapping hens and see if that is what caused it. Nope that was not it either. If you some real good brothers use some of them even if they aint been fought. You will know when you will strike gold

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  26. #14
    Member Xmarquez's Avatar
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    Re: Selecting breeding material.

    thanks for the help guys i dont own a farm i just own 4 cocks and 1 stag. and 10 chickens. ive been around gamefowl all my life thanks to my grandpa(all he owns asils) i really dont like asils much but i just started with my own fowl 1 of the cocks is my brood cock (green river valley Swetaer) im crossing to 3/4 sweater 1/4 radio what will the offspring be?

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    Re: Selecting breeding material.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xmarquez View Post
    thanks for the help guys i dont own a farm i just own 4 cocks and 1 stag. and 10 chickens. ive been around gamefowl all my life thanks to my grandpa(all he owns asils) i really dont like asils much but i just started with my own fowl 1 of the cocks is my brood cock (green river valley Swetaer) im crossing to 3/4 sweater 1/4 radio what will the offspring be?
    7/8 sweater 1/8 radio............................................

  28. #16
    Member Xmarquez's Avatar
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    Re: Selecting breeding material.

    i know alot of people out there say that there is no such thing as pure but until when will it be considered pure sweater and is this line breeding?? im not to familiar with what its called would anybody be willing to let some info out.

  29. #17
    Member deadly butchers's Avatar
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    Re: Selecting breeding material.

    Don't go by the looks cuz the best fowl I seen are ugly but can get err done. I like the confident ones that aren't afraid me not to be confused with man fighters. As far as hens I chose the dominant 2 of the bunch. Breeding can be tough though. I been told by old timers that chose the ace cock and cross him with the non dominant one of the clutch cuz to much good is bad for offspring. Just my 2 cents

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  31. #18
    Member GoldenSpangle's Avatar
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    Re: Selecting breeding material.

    I only reason i would breed a non-proven brother is if for some reason i lost the proven ones an that i was my last resort. because even if the are brothers not all of them can be aces. Selecting non-proven brother when you have the proven once? Now, on the sister/hen yes select by apearance, but only if the brothers are proven.

    Xmarquez- it dont mattet if you have 2 or 2thousand the same rules apply in this sport.

    Golden Spangle

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    Re: Selecting breeding material.

    Golden spangle-i know that thats why im asking so your saying you breed all the pullets/hens to your broodcock to know wich one is breeding material because that what i have been asking myself but confused.

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    Re: Selecting breeding material.

    In my experience, It all starts with honesty and who you know....but, you'll never know what kind of offspring you have until you let them box. Then you'll know what to do.

  35. #21
    Member GoldenSpangle's Avatar
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    Re: Selecting breeding material.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xmarquez View Post
    Golden spangle-i know that thats why im asking so your saying you breed all the pullets/hens to your broodcock to know wich one is breeding materinal because that what i have been asking myself but confused.
    If we established that F1 are proven than selecting a pullet/hen theres different ways. The best way would be go single mate them to the original brood cock but you wont find out which once will be you brood pullets/hens until your F2 are proven. Stags/Cocks are easier to select just show them but hens/ pullets you got to actually breed them and test thrier offspring to know if she is brood material. My advise select the best hens that look like the original breed that show good qualities and the traits your looking for, then test

    Golden Spangle

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    Re: Selecting breeding material.

    My selection process starts from the brood pen then their off springs(chicks) are selected and culled through ruthlessly all the way to the day they are shown in the pits!
    My brood fowl are single mated and only the best of there off springs are bred back to their parents or to other families to create battle crosses!
    Health is the most important aspect when breeding gamefowl(JMHO) Sick brood fowl will produce weak off springs and there is nothing more expensive and frustrating then keeping sickly fowl thinking that you can heal them and still get aces or high caliber gamefowl! Not unless you want to run a chicken hospital...lol
    Last edited by jncblas; February 23rd, 2013 at 01:53 PM.

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    Re: Selecting breeding material.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roberts44903 View Post
    By the time they are 6 to 7 months old you can tell a lot about them. I have picked them as early as 3 months old. Some just look real nice and fight with hens like roosters no bill hold and giving it all they got. Like I said just watch them you will see. Only downfall is my wife will tell me I am spending to much time in the chicken yard.
    YEAP-------------------------------Got to keep the wife contented 24/365-------to keep peace at home

  40. #24
    Senior Member Roberts44903's Avatar
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    Re: Selecting breeding material.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yunke8888 View Post
    YEAP-------------------------------Got to keep the wife contented 24/365-------to keep peace at home
    I go by the old saying if momma aint happy aint nobody happy LOL

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  42. #25
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    Re: Selecting breeding material.

    Quote Originally Posted by jncblas View Post
    My selection process starts from the brood pen then their off springs(chicks) are selected and culled through ruthlessly all the way to the day they are shown in the pits!
    My brood fowl are single mated and only the best of there off springs are bred back to their parents or to other families to create battle crosses!
    Health is the most important aspect when breeding gamefowl(JMHO) Sick brood fowl will produce weak off springs and there is nothing more expensive and frustrating then keeping sickly fowl thinking that you can heal them and still get aces or high caliber gamefowl! Not unless you want to run a chicken hospital...lol
    Good post,

    IMHO:

    Selection for Vigorous Flock Health 365, is basic to success.
    Preventive vaccination works sometimes, live strain vaccines will enslave a flock to them.
    A sickly flock is worthless, it will lead to certain ruin.

    Rigorous selection from shell to pit is a requirement for improvement.
    Along with single mating, accurate records, ruthless testing and culling.


    JMO

    yunke8888
    Last edited by Yunke8888; October 8th, 2014 at 01:47 PM.

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  44. #26
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    Re: Selecting breeding material.

    A cock is not proven to be a suitable broodcock until his sons are fought and win over 50%. More multiple time winning cocks are duds in the broodpen than not. If you do find an ace cock that can produce winners then by all means use him. Also a cock is not prepotent unless all his sons look and fight like himself and you can see his traits in his daughters and their sons as well. These cocks are very, very rare and you are lucky to own one in a lifetime. To me they are the only cocks to get very excited about in the broodpen. There are many average cocks that will produce winning pitcocks if bred to the right hens.

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    Member redouglas57's Avatar
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    Re: Selecting breeding material.

    Quote Originally Posted by RHman1026 View Post
    A cock is not proven to be a suitable broodcock until his sons are fought and win over 50%. More multiple time winning cocks are duds in the broodpen than not. If you do find an ace cock that can produce winners then by all means use him. Also a cock is not prepotent unless all his sons look and fight like himself and you can see his traits in his daughters and their sons as well. These cocks are very, very rare and you are lucky to own one in a lifetime. To me they are the only cocks to get very excited about in the broodpen. There are many average cocks that will produce winning pitcocks if bred to the right hens.
    I think expecting a beginner, even with the best fowl, to win 50% is possibly a stretch. How many times have you seen good solid fowl messed up by someone that mistreated them or crossed them to some other junk and blamed the breeder? Your analogy is good for an experienced cocker but I beg to differ on whether a beginner can or should expect those results. Too much to expect a true beginner to care for fowl properly unless they get close mentoring from a skillful and knowledgeable cocker. In this case they would not be on here asking for advise. just my opinion

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    Re: Selecting breeding material.

    I look for exceptional performance and health. I look for this in my inbred fowl. Before a cock or stag is bred he is judged by his pit performance . Once he is bred he is judged by his offsprings performance and health. Hens and pullets are selected if they are have extreme health. Before being bred they are judged by there brothers performance . After that by thir offsprings performance .

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    Re: Selecting breeding material.

    Quote Originally Posted by longheel View Post
    I look for exceptional performance and health. I look for this in my inbred fowl. Before a cock or stag is bred he is judged by his pit performance . Once he is bred he is judged by his offsprings performance and health. Hens and pullets are selected if they are have extreme health. Before being bred they are judged by there brothers performance . After that by thir offsprings performance .
    I like to analyze the performance and production records of the previous 2-3 generations when available.
    The performance of the sire & uncles, as well as, both grandsires & Gr uncles on both sides of the pedigree, adds or diminishes to the degree of predictability of untested prospects.

    Maintaining good records (both individual & flock) along with Ruthless Testing and Culling, are essential Selection tools.

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