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  1. #91
    Member GA OUTLAW's Avatar
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    Re: Thompson Whites


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    Re: Thompson Whites


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    Re: Thompson Whites

    Who got BamaOkie's Thompson Whites when his fowl were sold? I'm talking about broodfowl,both cocks and hens.

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  6. #94
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    Re: Thompson Whites

    Quote Originally Posted by RHman1026 View Post
    Who got BamaOkie's Thompson Whites when his fowl were sold? I'm talking about broodfowl,both cocks and hens.
    I asked about those myself today actually I'd like to know myself so I'd know where to look if I ever need a freshen up on mine

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    Re: Thompson Whites

    Can this kind of fowl be competieve in nakhed heel or taped fights. Or are they for other kind off fights.

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    Re: Thompson Whites

    They don't have the stamina for naked heel, Thompson's were a cross of an "oriental pheasant cock" and the Australian hens which were nothing more than JD Gay's doms. Later there was an infusion of Gee doms iif I remember right. All in all a Thompson white is a dom, they'll throw an occasional barred pullet, or Pyle or blue, white and yellow legged. Occasional Toppie, just like any dom.

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  10. #97
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    Re: Thompson Whites

    RedAngus, that's pretty interesting, kinda neat piece of history.

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  12. #98
    Senior Member Mike Everett's Avatar
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    Re: Thompson Whites

    There were to families of Thompson Whites. I believe Red Angus has mixed the breedings of the two.

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    Re: Thompson Whites

    Maybe I have......................

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    Re: Thompson Whites

    Googling it I find pretty much the same story, Mr. Thompson bought the pheasant cock during a main for $50 forfeiting that fight. Bred him to "Australian hens" figured to be JD Gay doms, with a later Gee dom infusion to freshen them up, at the time of his death they were inbred enough to be considered miniature gamefowl. After his death who knows what was used to bring them back to size.

  15. #101
    Senior Member Mike Everett's Avatar
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    Re: Thompson Whites

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAngus View Post
    Googling it I find pretty much the same story, Mr. Thompson bought the pheasant cock during a main for $50 forfeiting that fight. Bred him to "Australian hens" figured to be JD Gay doms, with a later Gee dom infusion to freshen them up, at the time of his death they were inbred enough to be considered miniature gamefowl. After his death who knows what was used to bring them back to size.
    Your still mixing the two. According to Dr. Cooper's book written around the Civil War, the first Thompson were bred out of the White China cock, but the history just says Mr. Thompson's choice hens and then linebred till they all came white.. The other family from Oklahoma is where the Australian hens were said to come in, It is said they were in breeding Clarets, bred to a Dom cock. The Clarets were sent to Australia, by Madigin to a relative there and then sent back at a later date.
    Last edited by Mike Everett; November 9th, 2018 at 03:10 AM.

  16. #102
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    Re: Thompson Whites

    Quote Originally Posted by Camarines View Post
    THOMPSON WHITES.
    The original of this breed of game fowls was imported from 'China by a gentleman of Virginia, under the name of the China Pheasant Games. [Why the word " Pheasant" was attached, we are at a loss to say, as no Pheasant marks or traits distinguished it. The only accepted reason is, that it was at that time popular to attach the word to varieties of fowls, and in some cases to varieties of games.] A main was made to fight against the late Bradford Thompson, then the most successful -cock-fighter in the State.
    Amongst others the imported China Pheasant game cock was matched, but when he was brought into the pit, Mr. Thompson offered to forfeit the match if the cock could be bought for fifty dollars, which offer was accepted.
    Mr. Thompson kept the cock for a breeder, and by running with him a selection of his finest hens, and reserving only those that took after the cock in color, he very soon established the ,color and peculiarities he desired, besides, one of the best breeds ,of game fowls ever known in the Southern StatesIt was a boast of Mr. Thompson's that though he had made a great number of mains with his white cocks, they had never -disappointed him, as he had never lost a main with them, and rarely even a single fight.
    After Mr. Thompson moved to Alabama, he was not personally engaged in any main, though he would let his friends have -cocks, who fought them invariably with success. It is easily discovered how these fowls dropped the original name of China Pheasant Game for the more appropriate one of Thompson Whites.
    Up to the time of the death of Mr. Thompson he raised no other fowls on his place in Alabama but the Thompson Whites, and would let no one have the stock to raise from, as the cocks he let out to fight were to be returned if not killed. By judicious crossing he kept them constantly up to the mark, not only in size but also in gameness.After his death some of the stock got into other hands, and for the purpose of keeping them pure, they have been bred inand-in too long, as the sizewhich was originally smallhas been still farther reduced, though in point of gameness they are as good as ever.
    These fowls are easily described. Both cocks and hens are pure white, with bright yellow beaks and legs. When they were in their prime, in the hands of Mr. Thompson, the cocks would weigh from four to five pounds. For fowls of this size they were remarkably well bodied, and very strong." They were quick, active and savage, and would often win the fight before the other cock would begin.
    The author was presented with a trio of the Thompson Whites by a friend in Georgia, obtained directly from the widow Thompson. They were very pretty, but not much larger than the largest sized Bantams. We placed the trio on a walk for the purpose of breeding from them, and afterwards testing their qualities, but the cock, after numerous battles with neighbors of "low degree," was one morning found dead, his head crushed by a brick, thrown doubtless by some one who had received injury or was envious of the qualities he displayed. The experiment was not pursued further, as the stock had been bred in-and-in, to so great an extent that the fowls were unfit for other than quick fighting, and had lost bodily vigor. The description and history furnished above comes from the gentleman who presented us with the Thompson Whites, and who at the same time sent some Claibornes, with their history and description.
     
     
     
    here's a reprint out of Dr. Cooper's book.

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  18. #103
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    Re: Thompson Whites

    All Dr. Cooper talks about is the original cock, not the hen side.......

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  20. #104
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    Re: Thompson Whites

    I'm mixing the two because I have read it that way and was told it that way.

  21. #105
    Senior Member Mike Everett's Avatar
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    Re: Thompson Whites

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAngus View Post
    I'm mixing the two because I have read it that way and was told it that way.
    Sorry just trying to give correct version if you have no interest in the truth so be it....lol The Doms weren't breed by O'Neal until 1886, Jd Gay got them from him. Dr. Cooper wrote his book in 1869, so how in the hell were the hens JD Gay Doms..lol
    Last edited by Mike Everett; November 9th, 2018 at 04:21 AM.

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  23. #106
    Senior Member INCUBUS06's Avatar
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    Re: Thompson Whites

    Yup, I agree w/mike... But, people will believe what they want

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    Re: Thompson Whites

    Maybe they weren't Gay Doms I really don't care, you know doms have been around since before 1750. It really doesn't matter now though. There is no straight of what the cock was, no true straight of what the hens were. All that story says is an unknown cock was bred to unknown hens to make a line of chickens. Bravo
    Last edited by RedAngus; November 9th, 2018 at 07:44 AM.

  26. #108
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    Re: Thompson Whites

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAngus View Post
    Maybe they weren't Gay Doms I really don't care, you know doms have been around since before 1750. It really doesn't matter now though. There is no straight of what the cock was, no true straight of what the hens were. All that story says is an unknown cock was bred to unknown hens to make a line of chickens. Bravo
    Yes the Doms have been around awhile, in England they were called Cuckoos and all the early one were barred not white, You proclaimed the Bradford Thompsons originals hens to be Australian hens figured to be Doms confusing them with a later breed by the same name, but not related, developed in Oklahoma. I just want young fellas like you to understand the accepted history and not making wild claims..since you really don't care, some do....lol
    Last edited by Mike Everett; November 9th, 2018 at 08:12 AM.

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  28. #109
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    Re: Thompson Whites

    At this point and back then the history is the same then, no one knows, still a Thompson when wet has the trace of barring, they white everything, come with an occasional toppie, throw occasional barred Pyle and blue pullets, even the white ear lobe. That's every line I've ever seen. Even the miniatures. Wild as it sounds I've never seen a Thompson I didn't believe had dom roots. If that sounds wild to you oh well.

    Not all the early ones were barred, it takes about 3-5 generations to go from barred to white with no outside blood, so we went from wild to bull.

  29. #110
    Senior Member Mike Everett's Avatar
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    Re: Thompson Whites

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAngus View Post
    At this point and back then the history is the same then, no one knows, still a Thompson when wet has the trace of barring, they white everything, come with an occasional toppie, throw occasional barred Pyle and blue pullets, even the white ear lobe. That's every line I've ever seen. Even the miniatures. Wild as it sounds I've never seen a Thompson I didn't believe had dom roots. If that sounds wild to you oh well.

    Not all the early ones were barred, it takes about 3-5 generations to go from barred to white with no outside blood, so we went from wild to bull.
    Your just muddying the water, I see all you want to do is argue, so game on. First all I admit no one knows for sure, but you claimed to. You can't even admit you confused two totally different breed and breeders. Your experience are based on everything you've seen. My guess is you haven't seen anything outside a very very narrow point of view..I made a mistake in saying you confused or mixed up your stories. I should have been more forceful and told the truth ........."YOU DON"T KNOW WHAT U ARE TALKING ABOUT..Goggle that..lol

  30. #111
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    Re: Thompson Whites

    I'll admit I probably did get mixed up in the original stories, but the fowl today aren't what they were in 1869. Look closely at them.

  31. #112
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    Re: Thompson Whites

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAngus View Post
    I'll admit I probably did get mixed up in the original stories, but the fowl today aren't what they were in 1869. Look closely at them.
    The Thompson whites that are around today are most likely from the family developed in the 1940's, that were the Dr. Hutchins Dom cock and the Australian hens (Claret). The White Clarets are recessive white so the white in the first mating was carried on by the dominate white of the Dom. When the F1 were bred together the recessive white could have been re-established as the dominate white and as long as bred together would throw white. If that didn't happen they would still be white because of the Dom's white being dominate. Now to test if it's Dom or recessive white bred to a solid black and if you get a Barred Dom it's a White Dom gene. But getting toppies and blues means they were mix bloods. Toppy is dominate, so once it doesn't show its gone and blue is co-dominate so must have splash white and black in it.
    Last edited by Mike Everett; November 9th, 2018 at 09:38 AM.

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  33. #113
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    Re: Thompson Whites

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Everett View Post
    Sorry just trying to give correct version if you have no interest in the truth so be it....lol The Doms weren't breed by O'Neal until 1886, Jd Gay got them from him. Dr. Cooper wrote his book in 1869, so how in the hell were the hens JD Gay Doms..lol
    Mike, the hen & eggs were "Australian PIT games" . The Australian Pit games were created by Oxford old English games, Asil & Malays.......
    Im an ozzy, and ive spoken to many ol gentlemen that were around at the time, some speaking to Gordon Pine Directly, and that come straight from the gentlemen involved.

    Weather or not it was thought they were claret hens being sent back, they WERE "Australian Pit Games"..Although once recieved it would have been evident what they were, maybe another one of those little secrets breeders like to keep

    As for different colors comming out, they were selected by color, only white was used, and i agree with you about Dominant white & recessive white cause i know a little about color genes
    Was going to comment about color on another thread but thought it pointless.
    Last edited by Crazy Eyes; November 9th, 2018 at 10:18 AM.

  34. #114
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    Re: Thompson Whites

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy Eyes View Post
    Mike, the hen & eggs were "Australian PIT games" . The Australian Pit games were created by Oxford old English games, Asil & Malays.......
    Im an ozzy, and ive spoken to many ol gentlemen that were around at the time, some speaking to Gordon Pine Directly, and that come straight from the gentlemen involved.

    Weather or not it was thought they were claret hens being sent back, they WERE "Australian Pit Games"..Although once recieved it would have been evident what they were, maybe another one of those little secrets breeders like to keep

    As for different colors comming out, they were selected by color, only white was used, and i agree with you about Dominant white & recessive white cause i know a little about color genes
    Was going to comment about color on another thread but thought it pointless.
    I can live with that............................lol

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    Re: Thompson Whites

    Ok so incompletely dominant genes which also have a recessive type gene that floats around with it in certain individuals and cannot be counted on to breed 100% true is your argument, they cannot be covered up and pop out? There's a reason they're called incompletely dominant. Just throw that out there like it's fact? You have recessive genes flipping to dominant? Recessive genes can become the dominant gene in a closed pool but once the pool opens up they become recessive again, unless you're talking mutation. They were never truly dominant just the dominant gene in the pool. The dom gene in itself is imperfect, otherwise how does the black and other colors become repressed, or in certain instances blended? Why does color occasionally pop out of the white line with no new blood for 25 years with no outcross unless there are truly no pure fowl? I apologize for getting snippy earlier, storm is blowing in and I feel like throbbing death, and I do tend to get to be smart mouthed when I don't feel good. That's my bad, but you're not going to slap me with some half truth about incompletely dominant genes not being able to be repressed, especially if their recessive counterparts could possibly be in play. Mr. Everett I'll admit I was probably wrong about what I read, and heard but you came in and muddied the water just as badly as I did, and tried to hide behind genetics, using certain things that are only sometimes true. Enjoy your evening sir, I'm about to take something so mine can become remotely tolerable.

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  37. #116
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    Re: Thompson Whites

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy Eyes View Post
    Mike, the hen & eggs were "Australian PIT games" . The Australian Pit games were created by Oxford old English games, Asil & Malays.......
    Im an ozzy, and ive spoken to many ol gentlemen that were around at the time, some speaking to Gordon Pine Directly, and that come straight from the gentlemen involved.

    Weather or not it was thought they were claret hens being sent back, they WERE "Australian Pit Games"..Although once recieved it would have been evident what they were, maybe another one of those little secrets breeders like to keep

    As for different colors comming out, they were selected by color, only white was used, and i agree with you about Dominant white & recessive white cause i know a little about color genes
    Was going to comment about color on another thread but thought it pointless.
    You know a little bit Abaut collor genes. Look at the bleu eyes from the boy. How is this possible.https://youtu.be/z7q880Sbobk

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    Re: Thompson Whites

    Quote Originally Posted by White thai View Post
    You know a little bit Abaut collor genes. Look at the bleu eyes from the boy. How is this possible.https://youtu.be/z7q880Sbobk
    Look up/research "heterochromia"..........This may help you.

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    Re: Thompson Whites

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy Eyes View Post

    Look up/research "heterochromia"..........This may help you.
    Nope, i Think you didn't see the movie. I keep IT short, Jozef mengele was behind IT. I Think in another topic bushwick clames that he buy a rooster from sanzhez with bleu eyes. I Think Jozef mengele have try IT first on gamefowl. I Think sanzhez portorican fowl are exaly brazilian birds

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  41. #119
    Senior Member Mike Everett's Avatar
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    Re: Thompson Whites

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAngus View Post
    Ok so incompletely dominant genes which also have a recessive type gene that floats around with it in certain individuals and cannot be counted on to breed 100% true is your argument, they cannot be covered up and pop out? There's a reason they're called incompletely dominant. Just throw that out there like it's fact? You have recessive genes flipping to dominant? Recessive genes can become the dominant gene in a closed pool but once the pool opens up they become recessive again, unless you're talking mutation. They were never truly dominant just the dominant gene in the pool. The dom gene in itself is imperfect, otherwise how does the black and other colors become repressed, or in certain instances blended? Why does color occasionally pop out of the white line with no new blood for 25 years with no outcross unless there are truly no pure fowl? I apologize for getting snippy earlier, storm is blowing in and I feel like throbbing death, and I do tend to get to be smart mouthed when I don't feel good. That's my bad, but you're not going to slap me with some half truth about incompletely dominant genes not being able to be repressed, especially if their recessive counterparts could possibly be in play. Mr. Everett I'll admit I was probably wrong about what I read, and heard but you came in and muddied the water just as badly as I did, and tried to hide behind genetics, using certain things that are only sometimes true. Enjoy your evening sir, I'm about to take something so mine can become remotely tolerable.
    Slow down son, I said if u bred a dominant white with a recessive white the F1 would be white becasue of the Dominant white genes, then when F1 are bred it's possible that two recessive white genes could be paired up. If two recessive are bred together they will be dominant color as long as they are bred together or with other recessive whites. If two recessive genes don't pair up they still will be white because of the Dominant white. The recessive white still could be present, but just not expressed.You call yourself Red Angus , isn't it true that a pair of blacks can throw red calves but a pair of reds will only produce reds? The incomplete dominant was the blues popping out can't happen unless blue which is made up of Splash white and black is in ancestory . You again are mixing up details..Toppy is dominant so if one copy of the gene is present they will be toppy, so two smooth head parents can't produce toppies, unless like u say its a mutant..lol To answer your ? about another color popping out after 25 yrs, it can't happen if they are recessive whites. Dominant whites are really black fowl with a mutation, that produces the black pigment, but doesn't allow it to go to the feathers, kinda like a square peg in a round hole. Sometimes the black pigment bleeds through and u get coloration.
    Last edited by Mike Everett; November 9th, 2018 at 10:48 PM.

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  43. #120
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    Re: Thompson Whites

    Ok I was going to quit last night, you want to roll on about how doms cannot come blue. There's several different dom colored genes depending on which pairing of genes combined with feather type genes, skin color genes and feather growth rate genes can cause doms to come Pyle or blue. As I said dom is an imperfect gene.

    Your toppie gene is an incompletely dominant gene, that has nothing to do with feathers that does not come in pairs but in clusters. Like the dom coloring it can also be affected by other genes considered unrelated and thus can be hidden. Your toppie skin type is also akin to muffs, tufted ears and naked neck, it is a domesticated fowl skin mutation stemming from cold blood types. It too is an imperfect gene. If the toppie gene could not be dialed back, the fowl would not exist as full crests limit a birds sight making them unless for battle. If the gene can be dialed back for battle it can be dialed back to being practically non existent later to pop out.

    You yourself stated recessive white could be established as a dominant white which is not at all the case. Dominant white in fowl is not always dominant white, sometimes it is a hen sex linked gene that represses a dom color expression which could or could not be brought out with a black outcross, but will come out with the dom outcross lacking the female sex linked gene breaking the dom sex link cycle. True Dominant white is another color gene.

    You also stated that all the old dom fowl were dom colored cannot be true with the female sex link dom repression gene. If doms were being bred some came white shortly after they were bred for the color.

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