Who has the best all around Orientals? I know like american game fowl there are 1000 different kinds but WHO has the best?
Who has the best all around Orientals? I know like american game fowl there are 1000 different kinds but WHO has the best?
Argentina...Brazil...Vietnam. Is who I think have the best orientals.
I was meaning what person but thanks for your input and I think pakistan has some good orientals too.
The scope of the question is too broad; way too broad. Different breeders raise different breeds which have been traditional used in different venues. You are asking that apples be compared to oranges.
That would be like asking... "Who has the best blacks?"
My answer would be the same either way "Me!" (In my opinion) I have the best of both...
If I believed any different I would not feed them!
Best and Nothing Special are both words that could describe the same fowl. It depends on who you ask!
The best I've tried was some that I got from Jack Holland of Colorado. I trade him a cowan pair for some Asil. I was skeptical at first of the offspring. But when they matured by far the best fowl I ever had. They made me a true Asil fan. The grades had it all. I ask him what they were and he told me he was a family friend of Bobby Boles and he got the line from him in the 70s,80s,and 90s. I now have a line of black rampuri, jack smith asils, and some jerry wallace Asil.
Your not really going to get a straight answer here. The answers are going to vary from "Joe Blow has the best" or "Johnny Whatshisface has the best and no one could touch his" so basically what I'm saying is YOU are going to have to decide what wors best for YOU not Joe Blow or Johnny Whatshisface.
Yeah I guess you are right because everyone I talk to has the "best" but I guess I should have said who has done the best with them when legal of course?
@Brett I hope I didn't come across as rude as that wasn't my intentions. I just wanted you to know that you weren't going to get a straight answer.
the best orientals in competition today in the USA are those bred by the Hmong guys and those who play against them... they are crossed mongrels: thai, ganoi, pama (burmese, which is kind of like thai, but slimmer and faster), asil, shamo all blended together... these guys don't care about pure this or that, just result in the pits (occasionally some people have been known to find their ways home without the vehicles they came in)... i think they have learned about line breeding to keep the blood of those outstanding individuals though.
of course if you were to say this in asil club, Ike Merchant (i call him the "asil god"... his asils were dominate back in the days) would be all over you about how his imported north India asils are the best, or at least of pure bloodlines, not mix-bag mongrels that can't be counted on in breeding... i have been thinking about registering for a membership there just to pick a fight with him for fun, see if i can get him in a contest with some of the naked-heel guys i know, but he would probably just decline, using an excuse that it's illegal to fight now.
for steel game crossing, i'd stay with asils though.
Last edited by newtogame2; October 21st, 2014 at 06:57 AM.
Curt Hanson and Doc Dave.Originally Posted by Brettjern
First of all asils are not orientals Orientals are from china japan ti land there is a differance orientals are high breakers Asils on other hand are ground fighters from inda sorry not an expert but i have read a book or two no them
india is part of asia is it not? so i would consider it as oriental....
Damn you are so wrong. What book have you read? Ever read "Oriental Gamefowl" by Dr. Edsel Bixler. That book is all about asils and different varieties of asils; their characteristics etc. You're really not an expert and thanks for admitting it. Get more pointers and search on the net. An expert is someone who knows everything about women but don't have a girlfriend.
This is just a guess where I would look for the best Orientals. I could see starting in India and traveling around the country side looking for local pits. I am sure they bred some good ground fighters. Just like traveling around Alabama looking for good Sweaters.
If you're talking about the best orientals for grading into American fowl they are probably here in the u.s....gowdy japs,cobra asil,boles asil,Melville asil,spuds asil and some rampuri asils are all real successful breeds bred for grading with American birds developed in the u.s.....as far as naked heel I'd say Thailand,Burma,Vietnam.seems like the breeds all the naked heel/tape guys want are from Southeast Asia...Ganoi,Thai,Burmese are some of their favorites,and like newtogame said,those guys are big on crossing.
Last edited by timtaboo; October 21st, 2014 at 04:13 PM.
India is part of Asia, so Indians are Asians, as are Chinese... however, to get technical, Indians are not Oriental... Oriental are referred to the people of the far-east Orient (also part pf Asia): China, Japan, Vietnam, Korea... who don't look anything like the west Asians: Indians, Pakistanians...
but i'm with you when it comes to fowls.
This bloodline has done well for us.
The Best Orientals are ones you can use for your own shows. And if your are on grading, the Best Orientals are those that compliment your main lines. Orientals are as diverse as your Western fowls and just like what you do with your Western families, you have to fine-tune (tweak and customize) your own orientals according to your needs or whatever you need them for. The Best Oriental are not ready-made for you, you have to 'create' them.
Having said that, to acquire the best Orientals, start with a good oriental line from a reliable breeder (not necessarily the best but decent enough to breed). Select the ones you think will make you stay long in this sports (long enough for you to see their real value), trust your instinct and don’t be afraid to do some experiments and hopefully in 5 or more years, you’ve created a family of orientals that best suits your needs. Then you can say you’ve found the best Orientals for you. Five, six, seven years or more seems a long time but IMO still is the way to go ONLY if you know what you’re aiming for (else, you will be forever searching for the BEST This and BEST That….).
I hope I make sense.
I was searching for the correct words early this morning, when I sat down to respond I see Engkanto's reply! Perfectly said sir, yfis, Bob
don't waste your time if you want a good start contact colt39 or larry lingerfel there is where the blue ribbons are.good luck.
Personally I think every thing peacomb has oriental. and some may be Asian some Indian but I say oriental.
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These are the Jerry wallace Asil. I really like these lil asils.
Look like my Ron lantz asils[IMG]
Not to jump off topic. I know little about sails or japs. From the couple of men I know that own them. Asils hit to the body? Or my buddy’s do. Do any hit to the head. Is it japs that hit head?
A buddy sent me an McLean/ Rampury stag. I bred him to my mugs and a hatch. The get is about as good as one could hope for. 86% showing stags in cock shows. They hit you 10 times in the head after your dead.
Rampury is that Asil or Oriental?
I've watched videos over asils, and a guy wants to avoid under wing birds like the plague. Even the high spinners have some bad habits. Some of the Thai and Brazilian birds if a guy could keep them in the pit look like their grades would be amazing. I've seen quite a few that don't wrestle, and when I say power, I don't believe I would spar them into your regular chickens. I sent skincarver a video, even blind and tired they're deadly at any moment with taped spurs or muffs, or whatever they were wearing. He'll probably back me up on that lmao.
With asils, I would stick to name brand American developed lines. That tape boxing is a whole other world. Even the old short heel cocks with horrible habits look refined next to under wing birds. I don't know how they don't get dizzy and fall down, seriously.
I've been pointed to Hamlin, a couple guys that own Thai or Brazilian fowl, and been recommended Cubans by them, along with several other breeders. With the faster asil lines I was told to breed to slower hens, to bring the cut down to the body, and with slower asil lines breed to faster more athletic hens. But no matter what if they get a head shot they will take it.
As far as breeding techniques I was told to breed an asil cock to American hens, then your half and half cocks to American hens, for 3\4, 1\4. So your birds take more after the American lines.
If you are looking at 1\8 or 1\16 grades I was told to play with the lines. Use the half asil hens, then breed away, whatever, you know to get to know the fowl and find out what I like.
I'm considering it, they sound interesting.
Rampuri is an asil, and an asil is an oriental
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