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Thread: Brother-sister Mating

  
  1. #901
    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Quote Originally Posted by Quapaw Kid View Post
    Laying hens or a stag in a dome pen to look at don't count .. But I'm not a gambler , been to Vegas several times and didn't drop 20$ all together .. Don't bet in fowl either . Still don't think you you really are running a real yard on your own .. I know you don't

    But I agree with he rest , I'm happy for you . Jist odd you mention reviving your old old breed and asking me the same question .. Same old ,same old

    Cb , you are right .. It's a losing battle trying to breed something that is rare and not popular ... Doomed from he start
    The mainstream bloodlines steamroll you when a food pair dies off .. I'm not ready fro sweaters yet , but not fonna fall on my sword to save anything either .. No matter how apecial you think your fowl are .. There's more fish in the sea

    I believe your retarded cause an idiot would not pursue making it totally clear that there an idiot.
    I can excuse a retarded person fortunately.
    Last edited by MONGOOSE; October 18th, 2019 at 10:49 AM.

  2. #902
    Member cbgamefarm's Avatar
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Sweaters lol, ive had some goodones but it hard to manage them aswell. Those big breeders that breed alot every year , my hats off to them for being able to produce good fowl year after year. I know they trade alot back and forth, i know several very big breeders on a personal level who will tell you buy mine and not his and its the same damn thing lol.
    Each to his own, i know you like your husleys, im sure crossed they are great fowl. Some men like tomfish in new lakes and some like to stay in the same one and learn it. I myself venture everynow and then but i like my little pond

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  4. #903
    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    I have a preference to stick with what has worked well for the last 25 years. I have seen fowl that look just as good but dont have the CONSISTENCY mine do. Most lack gameness or mental stability (Blade chickens)

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  6. #904
    Senior Member Quapaw Kid's Avatar
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    I have a preference to stick with what has worked well for the last 25 years. I have seen fowl that look just as good but dont have the CONSISTENCY mine do. Most lack gameness or mental stability (Blade chickens)
    This is a pretty typical scenario ... folks have their circles , not every circle is the same size . Most of what they see is trios or stuff that locals to them have bought in .... seldom do you order a trio and it be world beaters . It doesn't even count as saying you really seen that bloodline ... same for buying a trio , you didn't actually try a bloodline .. you mated one rooster over two hens . That is nothing ... good or bad , it's nothing.

    A local guy has Romero Mclean ... seen a few go , that has no bearing on the overall state of what Romero has at his place and what the family is about . But , like most folks do ... I have an opinion on them and these threads are full of folks making the jump from seeing one or two of something and taking about it .... that's just filling threads up with folks bragging they have something or saw something .... same as filling 20 threads up about feed mixes and repeating ourselves .

    If you haven't seen fowl good as yours in 25 years ... you aint been nowhere . If you are judging fowl because locals are ordering trios out of the gamecock mag or facebook then you gotta know better than to even think that's what Gilliam , RAt , Dink or any of them really have up their sleeve.

  7. #905
    Senior Member moseley's Avatar
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Didn't you get the rampuri because of a single spark you seen in a pen? Don't that contradict your post above.

  8. #906
    Senior Member Quapaw Kid's Avatar
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    No , a few posts on a thread or one video don't tell you much about the family .... even stories about seeing a family show a few seasons don't mean much when you are talking the history of a family that's been around for years and years ... no telling what all kind of blood or flavors just one family could have had .... but folks will tell a singular version of their history , makes em' look smart.

    I seen some baby stags and it floated my boat ... had a few good reviews and I took a chance . I never go into something expecting any more than a fair shake .... what happens after that is luck of the draw . I tried 4 pretty special Rampuri cocks over that time frame ... 2 were good , 2 not so much .

    I made 4 or 5 trips to Mcnatt's ... got some good ones , some I didn't keep after trying them . Sometimes I just try a random hen or cock ... and results reflect . If i like something then I invest in the line , not just one trio . My buddy has gotten 3 of Gators YLH to find the right fit and raise enough to get real results ...

    I do all kinds of crazy stuff ... don't copy me , kids ... but I know the risk and reality of it .

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  10. #907
    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Quote Originally Posted by Quapaw Kid View Post
    No , a few posts on a thread or one video don't tell you much about the family .... even stories about seeing a family show a few seasons don't mean much when you are talking the history of a family that's been around for years and years ... no telling what all kind of blood or flavors just one family could have had .... but folks will tell a singular version of their history , makes em' look smart.

    I seen some baby stags and it floated my boat ... had a few good reviews and I took a chance . I never go into something expecting any more than a fair shake .... what happens after that is luck of the draw . I tried 4 pretty special Rampuri cocks over that time frame ... 2 were good , 2 not so much .

    I made 4 or 5 trips to Mcnatt's ... got some good ones , some I didn't keep after trying them . Sometimes I just try a random hen or cock ... and results reflect . If i like something then I invest in the line , not just one trio . My buddy has gotten 3 of Gators YLH to find the right fit and raise enough to get real results ...

    I do all kinds of crazy stuff ... don't copy me , kids ... but I know the risk and reality of it .

    I would definitely say you've spent more money on fowl than I have.
    You use the words like “magic”, “spark” and other hocus pocus words quite a bit.
    I can DEFINITELY tell you that it aint magic. Problem for you is this; you cant breakdown what “magic” is and until u do. You will always be looking. You really act like a beginner in this game.

  11. #908
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    I would definitely say you've spent more money on fowl than I have.
    You use the words like “magic”, “spark” and other hocus pocus words quite a bit.
    I can DEFINITELY tell you that it aint magic. Problem for you is this; you cant breakdown what “magic” is and until u do. You will always be looking. You really act like a beginner in this game.
    Everybody doesn't have to be everything in ever sport...

    Some people are breeders, some feeders, conditioners, care takers, gamblers. Each has a place.

    We all have different resources, access to different stock etc.

    There aint just one path to success. I would find no joy in winning with fowl acquired from someone else. I didn't "make 'em" so there's no pride in it, FOR ME.

    Some people's pride and joy lies in their ability to see, select, prepare and win. Doesn't matter where their charges came from.

    Different goals. Same game. Doesn't make one or the other wrong.

    MinuteMan

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  13. #909
    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Quote Originally Posted by MinuteMan View Post
    Everybody doesn't have to be everything in ever sport...

    Some people are breeders, some feeders, conditioners, care takers, gamblers. Each has a place.

    We all have different resources, access to different stock etc.

    There aint just one path to success. I would find no joy in winning with fowl acquired from someone else. I didn't "make 'em" so there's no pride in it, FOR ME.

    Some people's pride and joy lies in their ability to see, select, prepare and win. Doesn't matter where their charges came from.

    Different goals. Same game. Doesn't make one or the other wrong.

    MinuteMan
    I dont see how your response is to my write up.

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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    I dont see how your response is to my write up.

    It wasn't necessarliy to that particular one. It was to the over all back and forth.
    I'm saying I don't think either of you is "wrong". You each have diferent goals. Staying at the top Vs Keeping MY STOCK at the top.

    You like to make boxing comparisons, so. I see you as a trainer. QPK seems more of a manager. The manager and trainer don't do the same thing, but END goal of each is to win. Trainer want's his charge he's invested all the training into to win. Manager wants this kid he's scouted to win, and keep winning. lol

  15. #911
    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Quote Originally Posted by MinuteMan View Post
    It wasn't necessarliy to that particular one. It was to the over all back and forth.
    I'm saying I don't think either of you is "wrong". You each have diferent goals. Staying at the top Vs Keeping MY STOCK at the top.

    You like to make boxing comparisons, so. I see you as a trainer. QPK seems more of a manager. The manager and trainer don't do the same thing, but END goal of each is to win. Trainer want's his charge he's invested all the training into to win. Manager wants this kid he's scouted to win, and keep winning. lol
    Interesting. The difference between the two is one UNDERSTANDS the fight game and the other....I don't care about the other.

  16. #912
    Senior Member Quapaw Kid's Avatar
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    I've had my own hounds and chickens since I was 12 .. Stripped grass seed and caught grasshoppers at night to feed stags when there wasn't money for feed . Did both with no help and always trained my own hounds and roosters

    There are a lot of things you will see when you are on that end that you can articulate , explain or emote to others as you experienced it .

    Phenomenal brood fowl have came from cocks , hens , inbred , crossbreed, scatterbred , aces , duds .... Not a single person can explain why or how to repeat that .

    I could say .... mongoose , go mate up a pair of your choosing and send me a stag that is a phenomenal producer and will let me quit my job .. You can't do it . You still have a day job yourself .. So how you gonna say you know what's behind the magic of great fowl .. Because your keyboard sits still and lets you is why

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  18. #913
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    I'd be rich and famous if hind sight was 20/20. Most of us don't realize what we have until it's too late. When I had 5 inbred hatch. Oaks if I'd mass produced them over straight mug hens the color of fowl now would be half brown red or black red peacomb mugs.

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  20. #914
    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Quote Originally Posted by Quapaw Kid View Post
    I've had my own hounds and chickens since I was 12 .. Stripped grass seed and caught grasshoppers at night to feed stags when there wasn't money for feed . Did both with no help and always trained my own hounds and roosters

    There are a lot of things you will see when you are on that end that you can articulate , explain or emote to others as you experienced it .

    Phenomenal brood fowl have came from cocks , hens , inbred , crossbreed, scatterbred , aces , duds .... Not a single person can explain why or how to repeat that .

    I could say .... mongoose , go mate up a pair of your choosing and send me a stag that is a phenomenal producer and will let me quit my job .. You can't do it . You still have a day job yourself .. So how you gonna say you know what's behind the magic of great fowl .. Because your keyboard sits still and lets you is why
    You obviously dont know what TO DO with great fowl. Your always waiting for someone else to do all the work for you. What you will never understand is great fowl come from GREAT men who KNOW gamefowl.
    EVERYONE wants to be a millionaire. There are many men out there who will tell you how to become a millionaire BUT non of them are millionaires. LOL
    Im in this game for the love of it. I love raising fowl. I love breeding fowl. I love out thinking my opposition with my brood pens. I love the look on there face after. It aint the money.

    Short story; met a fast winning cock. Mines a little slower. Both arent playing. After 2 pittings there both 75% down but mine sprung a little leak. I ask for another 100. Some guy jumps on it. Both birds are still throwing but mind is more accurate. His runs off. Point of the story is I KNEW I could make an extra 100 easily and someone would jump on it.

  21. #915
    Senior Member grey/dom's Avatar
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    The writer of ths stats doesn’t play the game. He is just writing.

    I couldn’t say I am a successful cocker. But, I am a successful family man and father of 4 grown up
    kids.

    I fight in the bushes. And more wins than losing every weekend after resting from my daily job.

    I am a happy cocker. My chickens may not be invincible but a lot of people calls out the odds coz they believe my chickens could win. For only that. I am thankful.

    I could bet 10t or more to get rich. But I bet 500 just buy some beers and be merry afterwards

    I am a simpleton and for that again. I enjoy life.

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  23. #916
    Senior Member Quapaw Kid's Avatar
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    You don't know me . This is a rooster forum , not online shrink .

    Great fowl are singular .. You get one , don't build walls around the farm and go inbreed crazy thinking you have hit pay dirt .. Do the best you can but keep your eyes peeled . Listen to Bruce Lee . Be like water

    But, that's not for you . You show places where you never seen your equal in 25 years ..keep that honey hole a secret and next time bet $200 .

  24. #917
    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Quote Originally Posted by Quapaw Kid View Post
    You don't know me . This is a rooster forum , not online shrink .

    Great fowl are singular .. You get one , don't build walls around the farm and go inbreed crazy thinking you have hit pay dirt .. Do the best you can but keep your eyes peeled . Listen to Bruce Lee . Be like water

    But, that's not for you . You show places where you never seen your equal in 25 years ..keep that honey hole a secret and next time bet $200 .
    Its easy to know you. You put yourself out there. Its You who does it not me.

    “Stupid is as stupid does”—Forest Gump. LOL

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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    I have really enjoyed this thread lots of knowledge and helping other game fowl people thanks

  26. #919
    Senior Member moseley's Avatar
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Can someone bring up Ray's thread on bs mating and how he suggests how to do it?

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  28. #920
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Quote Originally Posted by Quapaw Kid View Post
    I've had my own hounds and chickens since I was 12 .. Stripped grass seed and caught grasshoppers at night to feed stags when there wasn't money for feed . Did both with no help and always trained my own hounds and roosters

    There are a lot of things you will see when you are on that end that you can articulate , explain or emote to others as you experienced it .

    Phenomenal brood fowl have came from cocks , hens , inbred , crossbreed, scatterbred , aces , duds .... Not a single person can explain why or how to repeat that .

    I could say .... mongoose , go mate up a pair of your choosing and send me a stag that is a phenomenal producer and will let me quit my job .. You can't do it . You still have a day job yourself .. So how you gonna say you know what's behind the magic of great fowl .. Because your keyboard sits still and lets you is why
    I think everyone else is thing its some kind of reversing process for an equilibrium but just thru breeding methods

  29. #921
    Senior Member moseley's Avatar
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    I have studied a little on the subject and a special note is a father/daughter has the same coi of a b/s mating. With that being said each breeding produces the same thing. The key is which way YOU want to go.

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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Everyone of us has different farm location, some have very good soil and environment some average and some worst this one can affect the evolution of our chicken. Health,Size and feathers etc. It might affect the offspring of the inbreds with regards to health and size, mental state not included though. Bro-Sis might degrade the immune system so if you raise them in poor soil and climate its already a failure for the test. Breeding is not all base in bloodlines it also include the place where you breed them. Thats why there are still lots of Filipinos importing fowl from US to upgrade because of Health, Bone, Flesh and Feathers who raised and grow from US.. Just my point of view..am still learning...

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  32. #923
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Quote Originally Posted by moseley View Post
    I have studied a little on the subject and a special note is a father/daughter has the same coi of a b/s mating. With that being said each breeding produces the same thing. The key is which way YOU want to go.
    Maybe, BUT...................... they never produce the "same thing"

    https://www.genetics.org/content/gen.../1/73.full.pdf

    This should take some study LOL>>>>>>>>
    Moseley, when you get through all that and get a very basic understanding, get back to me......
    Last edited by Crazy Eyes; October 25th, 2019 at 06:07 PM.

  33. #924
    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy Eyes View Post
    Maybe, BUT...................... they never produce the "same thing"

    https://www.genetics.org/content/gen.../1/73.full.pdf

    This should take some study LOL>>>>>>>>
    Moseley, when you get through all that and get a very basic understanding, get back to me......

    Nice read LOL. One thing I can guarantee you about breeding is:
    1+1 can equal 2 but I have found it can vary. U just cant quantify genetics into a dependable math equation.

    1+1= +6 or 1+1= -6 Sometimes it just equals 0.
    Last edited by MONGOOSE; October 25th, 2019 at 06:41 PM.

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  35. #925
    Senior Member moseley's Avatar
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Wasn't very good in math. I do understand likes produce likes if the genes add up. Where most get into trouble is not having a guideline for their selection. Some select colors others performance and some both. If it's a dominant gene then it will show up in offspring. A recessive gene can only show if both parents have it. Understanding weather the gene you are looking for is one or the other is the whole question to breeding.

  36. #926
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    Nice read LOL. One thing I can guarantee you about breeding is:
    1+1 can equal 2 but I have found it can vary. U just cant quantify genetics into a dependable math equation.

    1+1= +6 or 1+1= -6 Sometimes it just equals 0.
    Correct !!!!! That 's why I love to read or listen to somebody who tells me just to infuse Hatch to get power, or add Roundhead to give flight, as if breeding for expectations is just like making coffee with cream and sugar....

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  38. #927
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinolim View Post
    Correct !!!!! That 's why I love to read or listen to somebody who tells me just to infuse Hatch to get power, or add Roundhead to give flight, as if breeding for expectations is just like making coffee with cream and sugar....
    I wish it was that straight forward.

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  40. #928
    Senior Member Skincarver's Avatar
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinolim View Post
    Correct !!!!! That 's why I love to read or listen to somebody who tells me just to infuse Hatch to get power, or add Roundhead to give flight, as if breeding for expectations is just like making coffee with cream and sugar....
    Dont know whats worse the people that tell people to do it or the ones who listen. Guess all should share a little of the blame . I do understand why people say stuff like that because in those cases those breeds might give you the best chance of producing what a person wants. A good chance is better than a bad one and certainly better than no chance at all. But when people breed fowl like engineers draw blueprints and expect reality to work like it does on paper theyre making a big mistake. Even the best educated guess backed up with sound planning , rules and regulations really don't work when youre dealing with blood bone and flesh .
    It sure would be nice if you could take a Hatch and breed to RH and get exactly the traits you wanted from each. Following a good plan , careful record keeping , hard culling and a keen eye helps a hell of a lot but its like you said NOT GUARANTEED . It sure beats having no plan though I guess. Ive often wondered if an every day gamefowl breeder had the technology and means to clone fowl if he could take his best bird and clone it and have the same quality Ace he cloned from. That technically what we as breeders are trying to do . The thing is , although the clones would be exactly like the original in makeup in flesh and bone . Would each one be just as special and capable in ability . Even though all the tools are exactly alike the individuality and experiences from the time that Ace cock was hatched wouldn't be the same. Would it make a difference? I wonder. Guess folks like me will never get the find out but its a hell of a thought.

  41. #929
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Quote Originally Posted by Skincarver View Post
    Dont know whats worse the people that tell people to do it or the ones who listen. Guess all should share a little of the blame . I do understand why people say stuff like that because in those cases those breeds might give you the best chance of producing what a person wants. A good chance is better than a bad one and certainly better than no chance at all. But when people breed fowl like engineers draw blueprints and expect reality to work like it does on paper theyre making a big mistake. Even the best educated guess backed up with sound planning , rules and regulations really don't work when youre dealing with blood bone and flesh .
    It sure would be nice if you could take a Hatch and breed to RH and get exactly the traits you wanted from each. Following a good plan , careful record keeping , hard culling and a keen eye helps a hell of a lot but its like you said NOT GUARANTEED . It sure beats having no plan though I guess. Ive often wondered if an every day gamefowl breeder had the technology and means to clone fowl if he could take his best bird and clone it and have the same quality Ace he cloned from. That technically what we as breeders are trying to do . The thing is , although the clones would be exactly like the original in makeup in flesh and bone . Would each one be just as special and capable in ability . Even though all the tools are exactly alike the individuality and experiences from the time that Ace cock was hatched wouldn't be the same. Would it make a difference? I wonder. Guess folks like me will never get the find out but its a hell of a thought.
    with all the knowledge being passed around out there, especially since the availability of the internet, a pair of keen eyes (and a little luck) are probably what separates professional breeders from the rest... some people may think they have keen eyes, but that's just their thinking.

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  43. #930
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Quote Originally Posted by LaBlue View Post
    I'd be rich and famous if hind sight was 20/20. Most of us don't realize what we have until it's too late. When I had 5 inbred hatch. Oaks if I'd mass produced them over straight mug hens the color of fowl now would be half brown red or black red peacomb mugs.
    hind sight is 20/20... let me know if you need help with what you really meant to say...

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